Schiit Audio Moving Sale - Ragnarok 2 amp for $999

[Zarathustra[H]]

Could put bigger feet on your monitors. Or bracket it under the desk

I already have the screen as tall as I think I want it. Ideally I'd actually have it an inch or two lower, from a viewing position perspective.

I'd also be slightly concerned about venting and air flow if I bracket it under the desk. The manual (like with pretty much every amp I've ever owned) is very clear about not blocking or restricting vents.

I think I am going to stand it on an IKEA Lack table under my desk. Not ideal, but I think it will work.

I dug around my spare cable boxes and was able to hook it up by stringing two sets of 3ft XLR cables together. Not ideal, but it works for now:

I only have minimal testing in it thus far.

I don't hear any noise even when turned way up.

It sounds excellent.

There are three gain settings. Low is mostly enough for both my headphones and my speakers, but lacks a little bit in the top end if I want to crank it up. I think mine will live in "medium" most of the time.

In medium there is enough power to probably instantly hurt my hearing at the high end. High is just insane. Possibly "blow up my headphones and/or my eardrums" insane. Going to have to be careful when touching the buttons so I don't accidentally find myself in the wrong setting.

Volume changes are not as smooth as with other amps, but I knew that going in. The relay switched 128 step volume results in some ticking and quirks while you are twisting the knob, but on the flipside, left and right channels will always be perfectly matched (as opposed to with pots)


Now to the curious part.

There are three output settings you cycle through by pressing the center button.
- Headphones
- Speakers; and
- Headphones + Speakers

So far so good.

The odd part is that the pre-amp outs are ON in headphone mode, but are OFF in Speaker mode.

So, if you use pre-amp outs for - for instance - a subwoofer - it's going to be a little weird. In order to get the sub and the speakers to play at the same time, you need to be in "headphones + speaker" mode, and in that mode it will also be outputting to the headphones. So if you have very sensitive headphones be sure to remember to unplug them before cranking the volume.

This also results in the potential (which I have done before) of accidentally having the subwoofer pounding late at night when I think I am just listening to headphones. (This is not very popular with others in the house)

In my existing setup, I had a sensing power strip turn on the amp and sub at the same time, and used the button on the front of the amp to do so. This meant, very limited risk of accidentally having the sub blasting.

With this configuration I am concerned that I might screw up.

Add to the annoyance that Schiit continues their really questionable choice of putting power switches on the back of their amps. (I feel like it is just a "fuck you for complaining about it" thing at this point.)

The sub - of course - does not have a front power button either. It has a 12v trigger input, but the Ragnarok does not have this capability. If the sub had high level inputs, I could use those, but it doesn't. Only RCA.

And I can't rely on a sense power strip to turn on the sub anymore, because then it will turn on when I am listening to headphones as well. Right now I have to crawl under my desk and unplug the sub to listen to headphones

I've been trying to figure out what they were thinking. Maybe the thought was that since you have two output modes, if you really want to JUST use pre-amp for something (not sure what that would be) then you can do so by both switching to headphones AND unplugging headphones. If the pre-amps were on with the speakers there would be no way to use the pre-amp without the speakers blasting.

That said, the correct implementation here would have been a separate relay for the pre-amp outs, but that would probably have added cost to an already costly amp.

It's annoying, but not annoying enough to return an otherwise great amp.

I feel like there has to be a way to solve this somehow before I accidentally wake my better half in the middle of the night with subwoofer thump, but I am not 100% sure what that is yet.

One way I am thinking of is using high level to RCA subwoofer adapters and run them to the speaker outputs. At least then, even if I forget the sub on, it won't be pounding without speaker output. Not sure if they are any good though. Will have to read up.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate them.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The one thing I'm not clear on is whether the replaced affected headphones. I don't think they did. That really sucked for people with really expensive cans.

Anyway, I'm kind of considering this, but I really would need to be sure whether it has no noise floor or any hissing at all.

I only have minimal testing in it thus far.

I don't hear any noise even when turned way up.

It sounds excellent.

I'm trying to figure out how to best assess this for you.

If I pause my music (to eliminate any hiss coming from the recording) switch the amp into high gain mode, and crank the volume knob all the way up, and then put my ear right next to the tweeter of one my my speakers (all while questioning my own judgment just in case something actually plays) I hear absolutely no hiss at all. Nothing. Just silence.

This may - in part - be courtesy of my balanced cabling, and balanced Bifrost 2/64.

Or maybe my ears are not as good as they used to be (but I've always been very sensitive to high pitched sounds, so I don't htink that it it, but on the flip side at 43, I am not getting any younger (nor are my ears).

Just figured I'd give you that assessment for what it is worth.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Finally got it dialed in.

Took a little while as the single ended pre-amp outputs seem quite a bit louder than they were coming off of my Jotunheim, passed through the Parasound NewClassic 275 v2 and to the subwoofer. (But I might have messed with the gain on the Parasound, which would throw off this balance. I can't remember)

I have a select few tracks I use to test new audio equipment to make sure everything is working right. It is tricky because the tracks need to both be complex to make sure I can hear detail, as well as cannot have any distortion (as I don't want to play the game of "was that the recording or my equipment", at least not when I am testing.

One of my favorites for this purpose is Sting's "Desert Rose".

This track sounds amazing on this set up with both headphones (both my Massdrop HDxx's and my 250Ohm Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's) and speakers.

I just have to figure out how to deal with the sub on/off issue. The RBH-41Se's are great speakers, but they do not have a ton of bass, so I don't enjoy listening on them without a sub.

I don't think of myself as a bass-head, but I do like turning up the bass on my Lokius when listening to music on my headphones, even on headphones many consider "dark" like the HD650/HDxx.

I do something like this:

I usually take a bit off the top as well, as I tend to be a little sensitive to high frequencies.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I'm trying to figure out how to best assess this for you.

If I pause my music (to eliminate any hiss coming from the recording) switch the amp into high gain mode, and crank the volume knob all the way up, and then put my ear right next to the tweeter of one my my speakers (all while questioning my own judgment just in case something actually plays) I hear absolutely no hiss at all. Nothing. Just silence.

Yeah that's really dangerous. USB disconnect sound and then your ear's shot.

This version does have the DAC+AMP so it might just do what my Vanatoos do and shut off the amp output when there is nothing from the DAC. To truly test the noise floor you might have to have a silent recording or something that's technically "playing". But honestly if there's nothing due to it shutting off the amp stage anyway, it's just as good.

This may - in part - be courtesy of my balanced cabling, and balanced Bifrost 2/64.

Or maybe my ears are not as good as they used to be (but I've always been very sensitive to high pitched sounds, so I don't htink that it it, but on the flip side at 43, I am not getting any younger (nor are my ears).

Just figured I'd give you that assessment for what it is worth.

I appreciate the testing. Your report of the subwoofer gives additional pause.

Anyway dunno tbh, I might just repair my Vanatoos. It's a lot cheaper than this. I'm going to need to get some trees around me cut down soon and while I could still grab this, it's just pricey for a stereo amp, and I would have to go buy some really nice speakers to go with it. Or maybe I could just grab my Mordant Short Aviano 2’s. They're nothing amazing but they night be good enough. The DCM CX17 don't really fit in my speaker spaces.

 

[izzypizzy]

Well, I caved and ordered it for my turntable / streaming stereo setup.

Ordered a black Ragnarok 2, decided a standalone phono preamp would be the way to go, so I also added a Mani!

The Mani was labeled as backordered and in email they told me they don’t ship partial orders and that it will be a bit before they have the Manis available. I asked if they had an ETA and later that day I got a shipping notice lol.

To replace the Bluetooth dongle I was using I ordered WiiM Pro Plus, which I literally just learned existed; very cool concept, super excited to test it out.

Got some KEF LS50 Metas on the way from best buy to try out, if I like them I’m probably going to return them and order a refurbished set from accessories4less.

Thanks for pushing me back down the rabbit hole, I’ve actually really enjoyed all the research and having something new to look forward to!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Well, I caved and ordered it for my turntable / streaming stereo setup.

Ordered a black Ragnarok 2, decided a standalone phono preamp would be the way to go, so I also added a Mani!

The Mani was labeled as backordered and in email they told me they don’t ship partial orders and that it will be a bit before they have the Manis available. I asked if they had an ETA and later that day I got a shipping notice lol.

To replace the Bluetooth dongle I was using I ordered WiiM Pro Plus, which I literally just learned existed; very cool concept, super excited to test it out.

Got some KEF LS50 Metas on the way from best buy to try out, if I like them I’m probably going to return them and order a refurbished set from accessories4less.

Thanks for pushing me back down the rabbit hole, I’ve actually really enjoyed all the research and having something new to look forward to!

Nice!

Please let me know how you like the KEF's.

I have heard over the top audiophiles wax poetic about them, but I'd love the take of a H:er.

I am curious about them, but they seem to not have very much in the bass department. One could argue this does t matter much if planning on using a sub anyway (like I am, to the shuddering of audiophiles everywhere, though I believe it you spend time and tune the crossover and gain right it can sound very nice and neutral) but if the crossover frequency gets too high the sub can start sounding a little directional, giving you that "90's small satellite speaker system" effect.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate your take on them. I'm not sure if I'm going to be spending that kind of money on speakers any time soon, but maybe if I reward myself at some point I might.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I'm actually kind of surprised you would spend money on the amplifier before the speakers. IME speakers are the largest determining factor for how good things sound. You can have the best amplifier in the world, but hooked up to Logitech-level stuff, it's gonna sound pretty bad. I'm totally a believer in good old budget speakers, though. I've bought some old Paradigm speakers that were really cheap in the past courtesy of atarione's advice and they were really good, and I'm grateful they suggested them. Unfortunately I stopped using them because one side needed to be refoamed (which I did) but then the other side also needed to be refoamed later (by which point I just wanted to try something else). That's what got me into looking for vintage stuff over new stuff, because some of the vintage stuff is pretty good and it's usually pretty cheap. It lets me experiment with a lot of sound signature varieties without breaking the bank. I'm not sure what would be "worthy" for pairing with a $1k+ amp, to be honest, so I'm assuming the bare minimum investment to make this thing worth it is going to be around $3k.

Please let me know how you like the KEF's.

For what it's worth the DCM CX-17's aren't considered "true" coaxial speakers, but they have a coaxial design. The tweeter is simply overlayed in front of the woofer. If you ever do find them lying around cheap on Ebay/Craigslist or in a thrift store, I highly suggest giving them a shot. They're not the best in every field, but every friend that I've had that came over and listened to the DCM's was impressed by them. They do many things incredibly well.

I don't know if I'm quite as passionate as this fellow about them but: https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudi..._q150_ab_thoughts_against_dcm_cx17_thought_a/

They're also rubber surrounds I think so unlike foam surrounds you don't tend to have to worry about redoing those. They last a very long time.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I'm actually kind of surprised you would spend money on the amplifier before the speakers. IME speakers are the largest determining factor for how good things sound. You can have the best amplifier in the world, but hooked up to Logitech-level stuff, it's gonna sound pretty bad.

I did it for the simple reason that I already have speakers I am pretty happy with. The RBH-41-se's were stealth power-houses. They sound pretty damn awesome, but when they were on the market RBH didn't really sell much to retail channels. Mostly just directly to professional home theater installers for the rich and famous. They sound pretty damn awesome, and review up there with some of the great bookshelf speakers, but they are a 20 year old design now, so they are starting to get a little dated I'm sure.

These things weren't exactly cheap either. They sold for $599 a pair in 2003 money. That's what (goes to CPI-U calculator) ~$1029/pair today.

I'm always keeping an upgrade path in mind though. If I were to upgrade today I'd probably be considering KEF LS50's based on all the good things I've heard about them, but I'd want to listen to them myself first.

I'm totally a believer in good old budget speakers, though. I've bought some old Paradigm speakers that were really cheap in the past courtesy of atarione's advice and they were really good, and I'm grateful they suggested them. Unfortunately I stopped using them because one side needed to be refoamed (which I did) but then the other side also needed to be refoamed later (by which point I just wanted to try something else). That's what got me into looking for vintage stuff over new stuff, because some of the vintage stuff is pretty good and it's usually pretty cheap. It lets me experiment with a lot of sound signature varieties without breaking the bank. I'm not sure what would be "worthy" for pairing with a $1k+ amp, to be honest, so I'm assuming the bare minimum investment to make this thing worth it is going to be around $3k

Yeah, I appreciate good budget audio too. That's kind of how I got these 41-se's. I didn't exactly pay 2003 retail pricing for them. I got them as new old stock steeply discounted a few years back after RBH discontinued them.

For what it's worth the DCM CX-17's aren't considered "true" coaxial speakers, but they have a coaxial design. The tweeter is simply overlayed in front of the woofer. If you ever do find them lying around cheap on Ebay/Craigslist or in a thrift store, I highly suggest giving them a shot. They're not the best in every field, but every friend that I've had that came over and listened to the DCM's was impressed by them. They do many things incredibly well.

I don't know if I'm quite as passionate as this fellow about them but: https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudi..._q150_ab_thoughts_against_dcm_cx17_thought_a/

They're also rubber surrounds I think so unlike foam surrounds you don't tend to have to worry about redoing those. They last a very long time.

Appreciate the recommendation. I'll keep an eye open for them.

 

[TheToE!]

Unit arrived today. Temporary setback.

I'm foiled by 1/4"

View attachment 651033

Looks like the dimensions posted on the webpage are wrong (or they measured without the feet) as this is definitely not 3.875" tall.

I don't think there is any way for me to fit this under my monitors as intended.

Going to have to figure something else out, and this "something else" is probably going to require longer XLR cables.

In other words, I'm an Amazon delivery timeline away from actually getting it up and running.

Pay no heed to people who are obviously jealous that you bought a nice amp! Good news is, now you can buy any speakers you want an not have to worry about the amp!

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I did it for the simple reason that I already have speakers I am pretty happy with. The RBH-41-se's were stealth power-houses. They sound pretty damn awesome, but when they were on the market RBH didn't really sell much to retail channels. Mostly just directly to professional home theater installers for the rich and famous. They sound pretty damn awesome, and review up there with some of the great bookshelf speakers, but they are a 20 year old design now, so they are starting to get a little dated I'm sure.

Ah yeah you got what is probably a pretty good budget audiophile pair already then. Have fun with it. I'm still on the fence, but leaning towards the outside.

 

[izzypizzy]

Nice!

Please let me know how you like the KEF's.

I have heard over the top audiophiles wax poetic about them, but I'd love the take of a H:er.

I am curious about them, but they seem to not have very much in the bass department. One could argue this does t matter much if planning on using a sub anyway (like I am, to the shuddering of audiophiles everywhere, though I believe it you spend time and tune the crossover and gain right it can sound very nice and neutral) but if the crossover frequency gets too high the sub can start sounding a little directional, giving you that "90's small satellite speaker system" effect.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate your take on them. I'm not sure if I'm going to be spending that kind of money on speakers any time soon, but maybe if I reward myself at some point I might.

Absolutely will do!

I am considering a sub actually, the Speedwoofer 10E looks quite intriguing! But I'll be testing them without first.

Thanks again!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

If anyone is curious I got a couple of these to turn the amp and sub on and off.

https://cordinateme.com/cordinate-tabletop-switch-with-braided-cord-black

I think they are quite sharp, and they work really well. A little pricy, but cest la vie. They are on Amazon too, but they are more expensive.

Closest one triggers the Ragnarok 2 amp and the Lokius EQ.

Turning those on also allows the second button that turns the amp on an off to work. I connected them dependent on eachother so that I don't forget the sub on when not in use.

I would prefer to not need these, but they work well enough that I may not bother with my more involved Plan B (speaker level inputs to the sub, and an automatic detecting power on/off for the sub. This stuff is a little dicier, and requires trusting random sellers circuit boards with expensive hardware.

I'm not usually one to fall into the traps of subjective audiophile terminology land, but I am really digging this amp.

Before, with my old Parasound NewClassic 275 v2 things sounded fine, but with the Ragnarok 2 its almost like things come alive. I feel somehow semi-surrounded and enveloped by sound which I didn't before. I dig it.

I have no idea what aspect of its design results in this effect, but it is very pleasant.

On the headphone side, I don't really hear any difference between the Ragnarok 2 and my previous OG Jotunheim. I didn't do any side by side comparisons though. I'm only listening on a set of Massdrop HD6xx and a Beyerdynamic DT770 pro depending on whether or not I want closed back. (based on noise conditions. Closed back if I want to keep sound in or noise out, open back for everything else)

 

[TheToE!]

Absolutely will do!

I am considering a sub actually, the Speedwoofer 10E looks quite intriguing! But I'll be testing them without first.

Thanks again!

I can easily recommend svs micro 3000 as well!

 

[Prince Valiant]

If anyone is curious I got a couple of these to turn the amp and sub on and off.

https://cordinateme.com/cordinate-tabletop-switch-with-braided-cord-black

View attachment 651304

I think they are quite sharp, and they work really well. A little pricy, but cest la vie. They are on Amazon too, but they are more expensive.

Those look quite handy.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I can easily recommend svs micro 3000 as well!

I have the older entry level SVS SB12-NSD in my desktop setup. (I think the modern equivalent of this sub in the SVS lineup is the SB-1000 Pro. They look pretty equivalent in their capability, but the new one has the modern digital configuration interface, instead of the old dials / knob.) Those bluetooth controlled DSP controls seem pretty cool though, and might make it easier to dial in the sub. I'm not sure, I haven't used any of them yet.


The back of mine looks more old school like this:

The truth about subs (at least for 2 channel music use) is you don't really want to go too cheap, as the lower end ones are usually ported, and while they can give you a lot of thump, just don't sound as tight. Then, unless you are listening in a very large room, going much more high end than the minimum is also not very beneficial as you just don't need it. That's why for 2 channel use I tend to go with a quality sub brands entry level sealed units.

A 400W 12" sub like my SB-12 NSD is quite a bit overkill for a nearfield setup. I originally bought it for my first home theater configuration, but quickly decided I wanted more bass for that (and would up with two SVS PC13 Ultras that can rattle and wake the dead) at which point - just like with PC hardware - the parts flowed downstream. The SB-12NSD moved to my desktop system, the cheap Dayton Audio (partsexpress.com house brand, I believe) Sub I had at the time moved into my kitchen, etc.


So since then (~2017) I've had the SVS SB12-NSD under my desk.


As mentioned before, it is WAY overkill for a nearfield system, so the gain is turned way down, BUT this has actually been beneficial.


Firstly, this is a sealed sub (rather than a ported sub. Ported subs give more powerful bass extension (for the same watt level) than sealed ones do, but that bass is less controlled and more "peaky". If you want to pair a sub with a 2 channel system for music listening you definitely want a sealed sub, as these are more controlled and "musical". It just means you have to buy more power than you otherwise would (thus why this 400W sealed sub produces maybe the same output as a larger ported 150W sub might)


Secondly, the fact that I run the sub at a rather low gain has meant that it is in its "effortless" range which means bass notes are just that much faster and musical compared to a sub being run closer to its max output.


I accomplished these two things quite by accident before I knew what I was doing, but in retrospect they have served my two channel desktop system well.


I will say this though. Getting the sub dialed in for my speakers took time and patience. First you have to get the crossover right. You can get a good starting point by looking at the speaker specs, and where their 3db dropoff is at the bottom end, but that is rarely going to be perfect. Then you need to dial it in so that it matches your room right. Too much separation and it doesn't sound right, too much overlap and it sounds muddled and not clear. You can spend hours, days or even weeks getting this "just right" for your combination of speakers, amp and room layout.


Then the gain needs to be adjusted. Some people are bass-heads, and love cranking the sub up. I get that. I just don't think that sounds great. It can be a bit overwhelming.


My approach is usually to find a sample song that is representative of the type (vintage, style, etc.) of music I listen to the most, and leave it playing on a loop. Then I go up and down from desk to sub, dialing the gain knob down until the sub cannot be heard over the speakers, and then slowly dialing it back up again, click by click until it is just barely audible beneath the speakers.


That is usually the sweet spot for the clearest music, with some moderate bass distention. At least for me. My take is, when in doubt, (a little) less is more. ....but as with everything YMMV.


But as the next several weeks go on, I find myself going under the desk to fine tune it one click here or there for weeks until I am happy with it.


In the end, it differs very much from song to song. This is why I decided to get a Lokius EQ. It has been very nice to be able to turn down the bass for some songs (usually electronic music), and turn it up a little for others (usually 80's rock) to make it sound right. The mix of every album varies, so it is not a static thing. I often find myself fine tuning it for every song I listen to.


I know many people consider EQ a sin, and that you should be listening to the mix "the way the artist intended". The truth - however - is that everyones equipment, ears, rooms and preferences are slightly different. Having a decent EQ is a great way to make sure ot sounds right to you.

 

[TheToE!]

This little micro 3000 is fucking violent, I love it.

 

[izzypizzy]

I can easily recommend svs micro 3000 as well!

God damn it. I was not planning to spend that much on a sub, but you guys sold me. Found an open box with a 5 year warranty for $640 and bit.

EDIT Schiit gear was just delivered! Looking forward to getting into it later today.

 

[Darunion]

I know many people consider EQ a sin, and that you should be listening to the mix "the way the artist intended". The truth - however - is that everyones equipment, ears, rooms and preferences are slightly different. Having a decent EQ is a great way to make sure ot sounds right to YOU.

So much this!

I don't HAVE to experience the way it was intended, which without using the studios equipment is just only close, i just have to enjoy the content. Go to a concert and you will get an absolute shit rendition of what they put on disc but that's okay because it gets argued it is about the 'experience'. Well so is when i listen at home.

 

[Prince Valiant]

I have no problems with EQ when applied correctly. Or as long as the person doesn't think everyone else will want to hear whatever EQ they have setup.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

God damn it. I was not planning to spend that much on a sub, but you guys sold me. Found an open box with a 5 year warranty for $640 and bit.

EDIT Schiit gear was just delivered! Looking forward to getting into it later today.

Look forward to hearing your take on it and how/if it aligns with mine. Also interested in your take on those LS50 Meta's.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Lol half the people in this topic just dove into a rabbit hole.

 

[kydsid]

Lol half the people in this topic just dove into a rabbit hole.

Funny I was reading this thinking, oh look they just fell into the rabit hole, as I sit here already drinking after dinner coffee with the Mad Hater. Its a fun ride though.

 

[TheToE!]

God damn it. I was not planning to spend that much on a sub, but you guys sold me. Found an open box with a 5 year warranty for $640 and bit.

EDIT Schiit gear was just delivered! Looking forward to getting into it later today.

I'd be surprised if you were disappointed! Let me know how you like it. Thats a great deal too!

 

[TheToE!]

God damn it. I was not planning to spend that much on a sub, but you guys sold me. Found an open box with a 5 year warranty for $640 and bit.

EDIT Schiit gear was just delivered! Looking forward to getting into it later today.

 

[Mad Maxx]

Lol half the people in this topic just dove into a rabbit hole.

Funny I was reading this thinking, oh look they just fell into the rabit hole, as I sit here already drinking after dinner coffee with the Mad Hater. Its a fun ride though.

Computer audio is one of the deepest rabbit holes one can tumble into in all of tech. I liken it to Yoda saying "Once you start down the dark path (of computer audio), forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..."

 

[TheToE!]

Computer audio is one of the deepest rabbit holes one can tumble into in all of tech. I liken it to Yoda saying "Once you start down the dark path (of computer audio), forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..."

Computer audio? Pfft. The corruption transcends far beyond.