Ever wonder where your PSU was actually made?

Well, I figured that you may like to know. So here are some pics of a factory in China. There are 3 maybe 4 major factories like this in China. All of your PSUs are made there Dont believe what is on that sticker/package. This IS where it came from. Factories in china are not owned by your Enermax's, Fortron Sources's, Sparkle's, Antec's, PC Power and cooling's. No, they are just a assy plant that was contracted by those names to build PSUs for them. So how it wirks is like this.

1) They do a large production run for lets say Enermax. They do all the models they have ordered and the factories suppliers bring truckloads of shit to go into the assy... i.e. heatsinks, fans, toroids, fets, ICs, etc. Then the factory goes to work puttin shit together.

Ever opened a Powmax and noticed that it looked just like an Enermax inside? Well, there ya go.

enjoy the pics, I imagine that you'll notice how the factory owners spare no expense for the employees (Sarcasm) with those great KMart lawn chairs of plastic and the $50 US Dollars a month they get for a wage. Be glad America, you aren't making them.

http://66.58.10.5/images/psufactory/psu_factory.html

Anyone else think the giant solder pot is ridiculously cool. I mean, come on, haven't you ever wanted a big pool of liquid metal? Anybody?

STRESSTEST said:

I imagine that you'll notice how the factory owners spare no expense for the employees (Sarcasm) with those great KMart lawn chairs of plastic and the $50 US Dollars a month they get for a wage. Be glad America, you aren't making them.

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OSHA would have a field day with that setup

Folding tables, the cheesy plastic chairs. Its kinda how i pictured it would be. I thought it would be a bit more automated though...i guess why bother when you have such a huge cheap labor pool

I'm sure PSU quality varies greatly by factory and even the subdivisions.

That's like every manufacturing company in China. They got lawn chairs and kmart tables.

BTW, if that PSU is a 350 Watter, I am Donald Trump. Our 420 Watt PSU is about 50x beefier than that POS man. The heatsinks, caps, everything on that were junk, wtf is that?

eeep! my psu is made by little ladies from china !

Thanks for the shameless self-promotion

PCP&C PSUs are made in the USA, IIRC.

and i've never seen a Fortron/Sparkle or Antec PSU that looked like that inside. although my Enermax sure did look like crap.

I've got a few 200w ATs that look similar to that, but none of my good supplies do

as I said guys, parts are ordered for assy's depending on the order. These particular models were what was being made when we visited. Parts vary, but they are still made here

And PCPC, show me the factory here, and I'll show you another assy plant. Think the parts are made here and that your 100+ price tag was really warrented? lol

STRESSTEST said:

And PCPC, show me the factory here, and I'll show you another assy plant. Think the parts are made here and that your 100+ price tag was really warrented? lol

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PCP&C tinkers with psu's made by others from what i understand, i'm not so sure they have an actual factory with heavy equipment.
Also, it is not rare for a top brand to charge top dollar for its product either, its actually what a "good company" tries to achieve.

STRESSTEST said:

These particular models were what was being made when we visited.

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Not trying to be nosy, but what on earth were you doing at a manufacturing plant in China? I'm curious because my b-inlaw and myself have recently begun to export/import and we'd love to bust into China for dirt cheap products.

He works for a company that resells PSU's.

heh, not really Sean

Um, well. lets just say that I am involved.. heavily in a coupld of companies that make/source/develope/import and sell to you guys. It's pretty great because I love asian chicks and traveling there lets you see the real nice ones in Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan etc. How's that for a vague answer

STRESSTEST said:

There are 3 maybe 4 major factories like this in China.

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Ive known for a long time there where alot fewer manufacturers than brands
and stuff like PCP&C was outsourced, but I thought the bigger players had dedicated factories, not job shops. (FSP, Zippy, CWT)

So just the final assembly and testing is done by these shops?
see several test stations, and the burnin rack, care to recreate the process with a few captions?

I assume, design and engineering is done by the "manufactuer" they send reps for the runs? and conduct exhaustive random tests?
(not all the test stations look the same)

STRESSTEST said:

There are 3 maybe 4 major factories like this in China. [...] This IS where it came from.

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That's confusing to me. Is this the only contract manufacturing plant in China that makes power supplies? You say there are three or four; seems like there would be more. Is this the only one that makes power supplies? For all of those vendors?

.B ekiM

think the operative word would be major
and it might even be broken into other classes as well
of job shops specializing in ATX as opposed to N+1 redundants or server 1\2Us ect

also consider there are other shops that for instance make housings
(probably case factories, that are other job shops)

Ice Czar said:

think the operative word would be major

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Well, the operative word is "IS". That's why both letters are capitalized. If that IS where my power supply came from, then there must be no other factories making them.

and it might even be broken into other classes as well
of job shops specializing in ATX as opposed to N+1 redundants or server 1\2Us ect

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Nope. The original poster said "All of your PSUs are made there".

If this is true, then it's very surprising and frightening. Electronics manufacturers really don't like single suppliers. One bad storm, say, and the roof caves in. Then, prices skyrocket and it's months before things go right again!

Riots, shootings, panic. A single source for all supplies is the last thing this fragile, frail world needs.

.B ekiM

mikeblas, quit being so anal retentive. Ice is correct, and that was the point I was trying to convey. When I say your psu IS made there, I was referring to the 3 or 4 major factories, not that specific one. Since you said yourself, "That's confusing to me" I would sugest that you go back and carefully re-read what I said.

Ice. Any particular pics you need info on? And your assumption about the cases on the PSUs is most likely accurate since they are not made inhouse at this plant.

STRESSTEST said:

mikeblas, quit being so anal retentive.

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Sorry, Stress; I'm just trying to get value from your post.

STRESSTEST said:

Ice is correct, and that was the point I was trying to convey. When I say your psu IS made there, I was referring to the 3 or 4 major factories, not that specific one. Since you said yourself, "That's confusing to me" I would sugest that you go back and carefully re-read what I said.

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I carefully re-read your note a few times before I asked, and I asked for help because I still couldn't make sense of it.

How are these three or four factories related? Are they independent of eachother, or owned by the same manufacturer or family?

How do these companies relate to PSU manufacturers in Taiwan?

Thanks for helping clear it up!

.B ekiM

Okay. Let me explain a few things.

The Asian tech scene is very closely related to one another. They are a very networked people. Meaning that the factories may not be related as far as ownership, but you can bet your ass that they (the owners) all know each other and work with each other often on dealings.

About Taiwan.

Most, not all, but most of these Taiwan firms are just headquartered there. the vast majority of them have "Their factories" in china. Translation: The companies/factories that they contract to make stuff for them. I am not sure whether they are intending to mislead by saying that they are their factories, or if it is just the way to say that the factory in china supplies the goods.

In my line of work it is important to be able to distinguish the difference between the companies that contract, and the actual firms that produce. So often I find myself asking.
"Do you manufacture the products yourself or do you have an OEM factory production?" When you ask that question, they all get that deer in the headlights look and usually try to sidestep the question all together. That's the answer as far as I’m concerned. If they say yes, they are the manufacture, then you arrange a tour of the plant/assy area. In this case, the company initially contacted was just a OEM customer of the factory and after further investigation, we found the manufacturer pictured.

Hope that clears some things up

lol, no wonder why my power supply was so cheap
btw: When am I getting my ram Sean, its been 7 months..

Ahhh, those freebie sticks, I forgot all about that.

PM me your addy, I am sure I got some around my place.

son of bump

Grandfather of bump
the time traveling prequel

If so many are built by the same company, why does assembly of the boards look so different among brands? Enermax = many folded-over small leads, neat soldering on the wiring, Channel Well (Antec) = almost every small lead folded over, wires have sloppy soldering, etc.

Vertigo Acid said:

Anyone else think the giant solder pot is ridiculously cool. I mean, come on, haven't you ever wanted a big pool of liquid metal? Anybody?

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Dude, a little off topic, but seeing as I work with this stuff I though you might be interested. That pot is nothing. Check out the Electrovert Electra. The pics don't show it well, but there's 1950lbs. of molten solder in one of these babys. Most companies run them between 470-510 degrees F.
This is what you'd use to solder motherboards, video cards, etc.

They suck to work on. Dirty, dangerous, unhealthy job.

There is definitely many more PSU factories in China & Taiwan than just 3 or 4. Fortron & Sparkle (aka FSP) has their own factory, so does Channel-Well, Zippy, Etasis, Delta, AcBel, Enhance, Sirtec, just to name a few.

That factory shown in thoses photos is probably the worse I've seen. The floor appears dirty which is unacceptable for electronics, good PSU factory will require workers to wear slippers in a near clean room conditions. Floor standing fan or opened windows are definitey not acceptable. These assembly rooms should have air conditioning instead. Also the power supply testing rack should be in chambers that operate at 40 ~ 50C for burn-in, not sitting in a separate room with the windows open. I hope none of the major brands we love are making their power supply there.

This thread reminds me a lot of when I used to own a bike shop and customers would come in and say, "Why should I buy this bike? Brand X is made in China too and there's only one bicycle factory in China."

I think you're over-simplifying the situation that's over there.

I know a guy who owns a firm in Taiwan that "markets" Chinese power supplies. I also know a guy who's brother works in a power supply factory in China. Actually sleeps on a cot in the QC department as to make sure they don't switch components on him mid-production.

Although there are A LOT of power supplies on the market and only a handful of factories in China, there are a lot more than three or four. There's maybe three or four state owned facilities, but there's still about a dozen independently (as independent as you can be in communist China) owned and operated facilities.

The big problem with China (for us in the U.S. that is) is not the lack of factories, but the fact that, as you said, they are a VERY tight group. One guy's brother works at one factory and another guy's cousin works at another. Come out with something good, and over a few Tsingtao's that night, the whole family is trying to figure out how to shaft the U.S. bastards. Also, they are very consistant about switching out parts or not burning in components and what not because they don't think the U.S. will notice or if we do notice, they've already got their money... they apologize... and move on.

It is true that a lot of the facilities, but not all, use the same burn-in or assembly facilities. Take Channelwell, for example. Very small facility, yet Antec and others move a lot of their product. If they were to burn in all of the power supplies they build in that tiny little factory, they would have to close production down and then have everyone on the next shift doing QC. As it is, they're already working three shifts in assembly so you know they MUST be trucking those power supplies out for QC.

And then there's Youngyear. Really big factory, but limited in volume capability. They'll sometimes send a design off to another factory that will actually rebuild the unit from the ground up (PCB and all) but to the same specs as the original. They'll then truck those units back to the other factory where they can be Q.C.'d and packaged and shipped to us ignorant Americans.

tonyou said:

There is definitely many more PSU factories in China & Taiwan than just 3 or 4. Fortron & Sparkle (aka FSP) has their own factory, so does Channel-Well, Zippy, Etasis, Delta, AcBel, Enhance, Sirtec, just to name a few.

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And then there's Topower, Superflower (although I was under the impression they were the same company,) Wintech, Youngyear, Leadman, ATNG, L&C.. The list goes on and on.

I have an import business and I've seen assembly plants from all over the world. This one, actually by third world standards, is pretty good. Seems reasonably safe and clean....maybe not ergonomic. A lot of what you use everday from clothing to electronics to furniture is made in operations just like this. Heck 95% of what you buy at Walmart is made in operations like this. Also, it is common for manufacturers to contract out production to various smaller shops like this who meet minimum specifications to get around a lot the problems you have with labor and other political/regional unrest. So, yes, there will be a some variability in a product's lineup, but not as bad as you may think.

Now you know how you can get a 300 W PSU from newegg.com for $15.00 shipped.

Pradeep

Regarding the points raised about intellectual property and the lack of integrity, that is common, not only in China, but also amongst US manufacturers. But the problem is exacerbated there because of the tight networks and the lack of strong IP laws with enforcement. In a lot of those countries, including India where I am from, the production of a certain item is regionally strong. So electronic components in a certain part of the country. Casting and forgings in an another part. So with these regional specializations, you get a very tight knit group of people who have a history behind their production of a certain item. Just as a the previous poster noted, one guy's brother will work for the competition. That is a problem for those that own the IP, but good for consumers because rapid adoption of competitive technologies takes place. Actually the entire industry moves forward because of the lack of IP protection in those countries. I've seen it happen in India with granite production. Once one guy figures out how to produce granite cheaper and reduce his costs a few %, that idea will be copied within six months and the entire industry will take up this new practice. That hypercompetition, ethical or unethical, keeps them sharp and allows them to produce things cheaper and cheaper.

The lack of integrity and the problem of switching inferior components for the more expensive ones is common. Even I've heard the "so sorry" from a Chinese supplier when their batch of production went bad. That is just an unfortunate consequence of getting your work done there. Probably accounts for a 20% premium to the true cost of production just because of that.