Toms Hardware looks at Physx...and slams Ageia a Havok problem *LOL*

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Terra

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Tomshardware(I had to link to him sorry *L*) has look at the PhysX:
Can Ageia's PhysX Card Bring Real-World Physics to Games?

The funny part is that he seems unaware that the PhysX only does effect-physics and blast damage.
The rest of the Physics is done by Havok.
And lets hear what he has to say to Havok (NOT Ageia, Tom!):

Without hardware acceleration, the tires partially disappear in the ground. This type of clipping error has been around since the days of the original Tomb Raider 1 and has no place a modern game.
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Not AGEIA's problem!

Although objects such as tires and doors can be moved into each other by firing on them with weapons, the player can't manipulate them directly. Without dedicated physics hardware, the player's avatar simply moves through them as if they weren't there.
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Not AGEIA's problem!

In software physics mode, the game's 3D engine fails to impress. At the beginning of levels, the tires of parked vehicles sink into the pavement.
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Not AGEIA's problem!

This problem doesn't improve even when the game utilizes Ageia hardware. Destroyed vehicles still sink into the ground.
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Not AGEIA's problem!

And I could go on...
You would think that a hardware site, looking into new techologies at least would have gotten al the info required to do such a test :rolleyes:

He is right abut 1 thing though:
GRAW sucks at showing the PPU's true potential...
But that has more to do with Havok than Agiea.
Just lok at this comment:
However, the device does not prevent the clipping errors. Tires almost always partially disappear in the ground after grenades explode near them, regardless of whether the PhysX card is installed or not. On the whole, it does not feel as though the PhysX engine and the PhysX acceleration hardware are working in close harmony, yet.
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Of course it dosn't...the gameplay physics is handled by Havok...not Physx...good one Tom :rolleyes:

Terra - I just looove a good review :rolleyes:
 
Good lord, and I thought Tom was a dumbass before! :rolleyes:

He just reviewed AGEIA's product, and every single nitpick is a software error (and not even AGEIA's software at taht rate). In that entire review he didn't say a single thing about AGEIA.
 
InorganicMatter said:
Good lord, and I thought Tom was a dumbass before! :rolleyes:

He just reviewed AGEIA's product, and every single nitpick is a software error (and not even AGEIA's software at taht rate). In that entire review he didn't say a single thing about AGEIA.
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My point exactly ;)

Terra - I have seen bad reviews before...but this one takes the price :D
 
The clipping part is from Ghost Recon using Havok and Novodex. Clipping is the result of optimizations-- optimizations that are in place because a PPU was unheard-of back in the days of Tomb raider.

Most of the remainder of that review is dangerously silly.
 
cyks said:
Most of the remainder of that review is dangerously silly.
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And you're surprised?
Come on. It's THG. People expecting intelligence, relevance, or facts will be sorely disappointed.
 
I swear THG has a team of moneky's writing the articles.

That would explain the whole flinging shit on the wall to see what sticks thing.
 
and that my friends is why i NEVER even go to TH anymore for at least a year now - i have been clean a year!
 
AreEss said:
And you're surprised?
Come on. It's THG. People expecting intelligence, relevance, or facts will be sorely disappointed.
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FWIW, I get 99.9% of my computer info from here. The only time I look at other sites is when you guys link me up :p
 
I was stupid enough to take a peak in their forum...that I will never do again :eek:

I thought the review was bad...but then I looked at the debate over there :(
Seldom have I seen so many misinformed posts :eek:

Terra - I wonder if it even will help to mail that site and explain their mistakes in the review :(
 
Terra said:
Terra - I wonder if it even will help to mail that site and explain their mistakes in the review :(
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Don't waste time unless you know sign language to communicate with those monkeys.

I didn't read a single review in many years due to their stupid bias toward some shitty stuff.
 
IanG said:
No, it won't help. Tom's occasionally has an interview that I'll read, and their VGA charts are marginally useful but I think the final nail in their credibility was when they broke the connector on a sata drive in a htpc review and then blamed the hardware.
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:eek: :eek: :eek:
That is bad...well, then I won't bother with a mail then...

Terra - Thanks for the head-up :)
 
Terra said:
Terra - I wonder if it even will help to mail that site and explain their mistakes in the review :(
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No, it won't help. Tom's occasionally has an interview that I'll read, and their VGA charts are marginally useful but I think the final nail in their credibility was when they broke the connector on a sata drive in a htpc review and then blamed the hardware.
 
And now I reply posts to before they are written :eek:

Funny :D

I guees there went "tomshardware" in the database :D

Terra - The physic :D
 
Terra said:
I was stupid enough to take a peak in their forum...that I will never do again :eek: ...
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I just did the same. That is one scary forum. I am now stupider for having gone there.

OTOH, I'm glad the THG forum exists, as it keeps those people away from here.
 
every time i read something on toms assware i get a laugh. i remember an old article comparing one of the first pentium 4's and the first athlon xp's. we all know who won. well tom's seemed to publish reasonably accurate results in benchmarks. except that after looking at the xp destroying the P4 he says that even though the xp won, the P4 is faster....wtf?? they have a real hard on for intel i think lol.

or maybe the famous dual core 805 overclocking article. get a 4.0+ Ghz cpu for around $130!! wow!! except that the dumbass buys a frickin $65 zalman...but no even though its reqired for the cost we won't add that in....or how about the rediculous power consumption. thats going to cost you! he even says "stable operation was possible at 4.1 GHz, and without even the need for substantial boosts to cooling!" dunno about you but i'd call the zalman a 'substantial boost to cooling'. and it gets better :

'For overclocking aficionados this means one thing: the AMD Opteron 144, which led the overclocking pack until just recently, has been dethroned by the Pentium D 805. This latter processor is not only easier on the pocketbook, it's also a noticeably better performer, thanks to its dual core architecture - the Opteron offers only a single core.'

only offers a single core....when that article released i had just bought my opteron 165 dual core....rrriiiiiigghhttt....amd can't do dual core. idiot.
 
Well from what the OP posted, I have learned one thing.... they love tires over at TH. :D
 
I'm not trolling THG, but after all the heinous misconceptions and hype they desperately try to perpetuate I'm just not surprised.

To top it off the posters in their forum are some of the most insular, !!!!!!esque fabricators I have ever seen.

Apologies and sympathy to anyone here who actually bothers posting over there :(

No-one should ever base their opinion on one source - information, fine but even then it pays to check. That does include [H], but tbh I tend to read it here or hexus first - and that's a compliment.
 
Wow - the conclusion even states that Oblivion and HL2 use HavokFX... it was released for developers, what, a month ago?
 
Oblivion's physics are weak. I can climb *any* mountain with a horse. Arrows are just fucked up to say the least.
 
i dunno, i kinda liked the arrows in oblivion. they seemed pretty realistic to me.
 
cyks said:
Oblivion's physics are weak. I can climb *any* mountain with a horse. Arrows are just fucked up to say the least.
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The ability of a horse to climb a mountain, while partially related to physics, is greatly realted to biology.

In the end, if the horse's hoof has sufficient friction on the mountain surface, and the horse was infinetly strong, you'd be able to climb the mountain with the horse.
 
cyks said:
Oblivion's physics are weak. I can climb *any* mountain with a horse. Arrows are just fucked up to say the least.
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Haven't played the game much yet (Just got out of the dungeon). But so far i'm not aware of anything in the game's physics that's part of the gameplay. You may be able to pick up something and move it around, but unless you can physically use it for something, it's not gameplay physics.
 
drizzt81 said:
The ability of a horse to climb a mountain, while partially related to physics, is greatly realted to biology.

In the end, if the horse's hoof has sufficient friction on the mountain surface, and the horse was infinetly strong, you'd be able to climb the mountain with the horse.
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I hope you are kidding. It doesn't matter how strong the horse is, or how much friction it has. It has everything to do with the horse's center of gravity-- unless the horse had claws or something.
 
Sly said:
Haven't played the game much yet (Just got out of the dungeon). But so far i'm not aware of anything in the game's physics that's part of the gameplay. You may be able to pick up something and move it around, but unless you can physically use it for something, it's not gameplay physics.
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I am sorry you feel that way. If and when you get over yourself, try to build up your jumping abilities-- gravity is just simply wrong in oblivion. You say gravity has nothing to gameplay physics? You are completly bound by gravity when playing.

What if gravity was off? Do you honestly think gameplay will not be affected?
 
cyks said:
I hope you are kidding. It doesn't matter how strong the horse is, or how much friction it has. It has everything to do with the horse's center of gravity-- unless the horse had claws or something.
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From playing the previous installment, Morrowind. That argument is pretty irrelevant. Nothing in the game is realistic. In Morrowind, with enough stats you can actually climb a mountain (There's no mountain i can't 'walk' on)

The horse just has mobility stats higher than yours.

Oblivion is played as an FPS, but it's primarily an RPG at its core. Beyond eyecandy, it's still your standard RPG. And in any RPG, especially in this case, stats override everything.

If you can't understand the concept, then i guess this kind of game isn't for you.
 
Sly said:
If you can't understand the concept, then i guess this kind of game isn't for you.
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Those thing there are why I have never understood RPG on computer.
I you want REAL, limitless RPG...dices and your mind is the best.

Terra - I play a LOT of RPG...but NEVER on PC...it's "fake"...
 
NokshisR2 said:
The 'z' in 'Forumz' makes them cool though.

:(
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lol

I bet Ageia responds to this "review" rather quickly....they have been responsive to the community before, and they won't stand for having their name dragged through the mud by an unintelligent write-up.
 
jebo_4jc said:
lol

I bet Ageia responds to this "review" rather quickly....they have been responsive to the community before, and they won't stand for having their name dragged through the mud by an unintelligent write-up.
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Perhaps they are unaware of it?
Even though I suspect they keep and eye on this forum...I know they have used user posts from here before in their past response to Havok...

Terra - Where else do you find a such informative PPU-forum than on [H]ard? ;)
 
Sly said:
From playing the previous installment, Morrowind. That argument is pretty irrelevant. Nothing in the game is realistic. In Morrowind, with enough stats you can actually climb a mountain (There's no mountain i can't 'walk' on)

The horse just has mobility stats higher than yours.

Oblivion is played as an FPS, but it's primarily an RPG at its core. Beyond eyecandy, it's still your standard RPG. And in any RPG, especially in this case, stats override everything.

If you can't understand the concept, then i guess this kind of game isn't for you.
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You are nothing more than funny, you are being irrational.



I don't give a flying flip if your 'OMGz sword of the Sherpa' gives your 'walking' stat a 99999 boost, or if your 'poanerzing champion of marrowind' badge is as shiny as Mr. Clean's forehead-- Oblivion's physics are as twisted as your argument.
 
Terra said:
Those thing there are why I have never understood RPG on computer.
I you want REAL, limitless RPG...dices and your mind is the best.

Terra - I play a LOT of RPG...but NEVER on PC...it's "fake"...
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I still get with me friends on the weekend and play Pencil/Paper D&D....Im 28yrs. old. Does that make me a loser or a nostalgist?
 
merlin704 said:
I still get with me friends on the weekend and play Pencil/Paper D&D....Im 28yrs. old. Does that make me a loser or a nostalgist?
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I am 30(31 next month :eek: ) and do the same thing ;)
But not D&D...XP's for just killing..that it PC style..
We use Gurp's instead..max 3 XP per gamesession...and you start out with 100 XP points when you begin,,.to make your charecter.
No XP's for killing..only XP's for using your head ;)

Terra - Nothing beats dices, pen and paper RPG...and you never need to patch ;)
 
uhhhh... .guys... I hate to say this, but Toms article is a GOOD look into the problem with physics in general.

see the average person going to buy the ageia and run games and have the SAME GRIPES.

if ageia wants to even make a dent in the market they need to do a better fucking job of making their product look good... and if that means working with havok and the game developers, this effort will pay off in the end.

ageia *did* drop the ball, regardless if toms was right or not.
 
Yashu said:
uhhhh... .guys... I hate to say this, but Toms article is a GOOD look into the problem with physics in general.

see the average person going to buy the ageia and run games and have the SAME GRIPES.

if ageia wants to even make a dent in the market they need to do a better fucking job of making their product look good... and if that means working with havok and the game developers, this effort will pay off in the end.

ageia *did* drop the ball, regardless if toms was right or not.
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How did they do that?
PhysX support was tacked on, the physcis engine in the game is ALL havok...

Terra - You are blaming AGEIA for other people's tacked on code and havoks piss-poor physics? :rolleyes:
 
Thanks guys. I finally see the light. After this discussion and especially the discussion about physics in Oblivion, it just all of a sudden occured to me why the whole concept of a physics card is certain games is moronic to say the least.

Someone "complained" about Oblivion not having accurate physics. Ha. Hahahaha. HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Yeah, how much fun games like Oblivion would be when it would be possible to jump from a knee high rock, hit a branch on the ground, physics kick in, your charcter slips, breaks his legs in (according to detailed physics) 13 places, needs medical attention, pays his hospital bills with paypal online and then begins his slow healing process over 3 weeks time. Then, after 3 weeks realtime (hey, we want REALISM!!!), you are allowed to play the game again. Albeit, you are a lot more careful this time around, avoiding jumping from rocks in the wilderness. You basically stay in town, avoid ladders and patiently greet the postman every morning when he comes by your house that you occupied with your lovely wife and newborn in game kid.

Thank god for accurate realism in games like Oblivion II, powered by the real life physics engine AEGIA II, a real life simulator.

Thanks but no. Some of you guys have to stop pretending that physics in a game from now on is the ultimate achievement. Some of you forget that a game is a game and not a real life simulator. Physics can severly harm the gaming experience and should sometimes simply be left out and/or be simplified for the game's sake.
 
ScYcS said:
Thanks guys. I finally see the light. After this discussion and especially the discussion about physics in Oblivion, it just all of a sudden occured to me why the whole concept of a physics card is certain games is moronic to say the least.

Someone "complained" about Oblivion not having accurate physics. Ha. Hahahaha. HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Yeah, how much fun games like Oblivion would be when it would be possible to jump from a knee high rock, hit a branch on the ground, physics kick in, your charcter slips, breaks his legs in (according to detailed physics) 13 places, needs medical attention, pays his hospital bills with paypal online and then begins his slow healing process over 3 weeks time. Then, after 3 weeks realtime (hey, we want REALISM!!!), you are allowed to play the game again. Albeit, you are a lot more careful this time around, avoiding jumping from rocks in the wilderness. You basically stay in town, avoid ladders and patiently greet the postman every morning when he comes by your house that you occupied with your lovely wife and newborn in game kid.

Thank god for accurate realism in games like Oblivion II, powered by the real life physics engine AEGIA II, a real life simulator.
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Fixed:
space5nz.jpg


Now you don't need to worry about anything like games becoming more realistic...

Terra - :rolleyes:
 
Terra, read more careful next time....i said that "in certain games" it's not good to have accurate physics. Hence the post about Oblivion.

Btw, with your picture you gave a prime example that some games can be tremendously entertaining without physics. It's still fun to play, even without an AEGIA card....
 
All I want from a game is 100% interactive surroundings. I want to be able to destroy the environment to my liking and it react realistically.

"Hmm the door is locked" 1 grenade later, I have access through the door.:D
 
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