New Jersey Also Bans Tesla Sales

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It looks like another state has jumped on the "ban Tesla" bandwagon.

The New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission (NJMVC) met today to approve a new regulation banning Tesla from selling its Model S in the state. The ban will take effect on April 1. Two other states, Arizona and Texas, enforce similar rules that prevent auto manufacturers from making direct sales to consumers.
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Goes into effect on April 1st... so we can assume this is almost as big a joke as the people who drafted this bill? :rolleyes:
 
Why in the hell would states care if the manufacturer sells cars directly to the consumer? I don't see the point of these laws?
 
Scythe said:
Why in the hell would states care if the manufacturer sells cars directly to the consumer? I don't see the point of these laws?
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I'm sure that NJ will ban electric cars (all electric, not hybrid) all together, it will reduce the required workforce for service station attendants.
 
Sadly, yet another example of a law no longer fulfilling the purpose for which it was crafted . . . but we keep it anyway :(

These laws were originally written to prevent the the car companies, with their corporate might, from squeezing the ma and pa car dealerships out of existence with direct sales. Now a law that was written to prevent big business might from crushing the little guy has turned into a tool . . . to allow big business might to crush the little guy.

It's the law of unintended consequences. It happens. But the real idiocy in cases like this is that our lawmakers are then too stupid/clueless/rule-following/corrupt to FIX the law when it becomes apparent that it no longer works. In this case, I'm figuring corrupt - I'd bet some serious cash (if I had any :D) that some auto dealers association has lines some politicians' pockets to make this happen.
 
450 said:
Great. Another state I cannot live in.
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HAHA - if this is the only reason you can list not to live in NJ, you haven't been paying enough attention :D

(fair disclosure - my wife hails from the Garden State . . . and I'll never let her live it down)
 
In many areas, interesting things happens if you go shopping for a Nissan Leaf (Nissan's entry into the completely electric car category) because the dealers HATE them and will do whatever they can to discourage you from buying one or even test driving one. The reason: they don't need nearly as much maintenance, and maintenance is a dealer's bread and butter. Not to mention the entire industry of third-party car repair shops who have all that equipment and knowledge about gas burners and none whatsoever for electric cars.

And Tesla wants to do away with car dealers entirely. Oh no! Save the endangered species Sleazy Car Salesperson from extinction! (Cue world's tiniest violins...)
 
Come on, if politicians are willing to union bust for corporate sponsorships, how can anyone be surprised when this kind of shit goes down?

Every time we think the bar is against the floor, it drops another inch.
 
evilsofa said:
And Tesla wants to do away with car dealers entirely. Oh no! Save the endangered species Sleazy Car Salesperson from extinction! (Cue world's tiniest violins...)
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You have NO idea how much I want this to happen now. I'm shopping a car that must be ordered and have no financing or trade. Only leverage any dealership has is price on this deal. And each one comes back with a little better offer than the last one from a different dealership. Nobody can just give me a straight up, bottom line price. I fucking hate dealing with dealerships. It's not the people, it's the system. :(
 
evilsofa said:
In many areas, interesting things happens if you go shopping for a Nissan Leaf (Nissan's entry into the completely electric car category) because the dealers HATE them and will do whatever they can to discourage you from buying one or even test driving one. The reason: they don't need nearly as much maintenance, and maintenance is a dealer's bread and butter. Not to mention the entire industry of third-party car repair shops who have all that equipment and knowledge about gas burners and none whatsoever for electric cars.
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They do not want to sell the car, because they do not want to support the car through its warranty period which can be a huge financial drain for the selling dealer.


I'm the only HEV tech at my dealership and I can tell you that no one, including me wants to work on these cars..... they can be dangerous from a service standpoint and the tools and equipment are very expensive.

try working on one of these in full electrical lineman gear while your buddy stands there with a Sheppard hook in case he needs to pull your smoking corpse off of the vehicle.......its not fun..;)
 
Scythe said:
Why in the hell would states care if the manufacturer sells cars directly to the consumer? I don't see the point of these laws?
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Same reason some cities prohibit other cable/internet companies from setting up shop... because lobbying is a powerful tool when your pockets are deep, now who exactly did the lobbying who knows "Union for Sleazy Autosellers" (USA!!!)
 
Tesla could skirt these stupid laws, by selling their vehicles in 'kit car' form. Powertrain (batteries) separate from chassis. They just need to spin-off their new battery manufacturing as a separate entity.
 
Scythe said:
Why in the hell would states care if the manufacturer sells cars directly to the consumer? I don't see the point of these laws?
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Car dealers as a group are heavy state contributers to all politicians.

As such they get state law to redefine their contracts with automakers in their favor as well as protection against customers (lemon laws, etc.)

A single car company can contribute up to the cap defined by state campaign laws, but a group of 30-40 dealers can contribute up to 40x the cap, so they win. The number one thing they do with that influence is protect themselves from car companies imposing consequences for being bad dealers.
 
A direct to customer sales scheme would allow car companies to bypass bad dealers with whom the dealer's politician's redefined contracts make it impractical for an automaker to terminate.
 
This is also a state that will not let you gas up your OWN GOD DAMN VEHICLE. as well as being the state that brought us the nuclear waste known as "the Jersey Shore"

So is something like this really a surprise?

I drove from Texas to Wisconsin to buy my Z06 from an awesome internet dealer... NJ is the size of a cat turd, let them pass their backwards laws while the rest of the world (slowly) progresses.
 
Scythe said:
Why in the hell would states care if the manufacturer sells cars directly to the consumer? I don't see the point of these laws?
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Car dealers as a group are heavy state contributers to all politicians.

As such they get state law to redefine their contracts with automakers in their favor as well as protection against customers (lemon laws, etc.)

A single car company can contribute up to the cap defined by state campaign laws, but a group of 30-40 dealers can contribute up to 40x the cap, so they win. The number one thing they do with that influence is protect themselves from car companies imposing consequences for being bad dealers.
 
has nothing to do with taxes. its about the unions... period. The argument of it not creating competition is moot, considering having the option to buy a "brand" of car is competition.
 
OvrCl0kMe said:
has nothing to do with taxes. its about the unions... period. The argument of it not creating competition is moot, considering having the option to buy a "brand" of car is competition.
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how does not having car dealers help the car dealers union?
 
OvrCl0kMe said:
has nothing to do with taxes. its about the unions... period. The argument of it not creating competition is moot, considering having the option to buy a "brand" of car is competition.
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Competition is not only actualized, the threat of potential competition is just as important, considering something like disruptive technology like this. Take away the new threat and the remaining competitors have less things to compete with, and obviously achieves the antithesis of what free markets are all about, the gradual whittling away of inefficiency.
 
collegeboy69us said:
This is also a state that will not let you gas up your OWN GOD DAMN VEHICLE. as well as being the state that brought us the nuclear waste known as "the Jersey Shore"
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Why fill your own car when someone else will do it for you?......and MTV brought you Jersey shore....a NY company complete with NY residents ..only one of them (Sammie) was actually from NJ... :)
 
cant they just drive an hour or so to pa or ny to buy one?
 
OvrCl0kMe said:
has nothing to do with taxes. its about the unions... period. The argument of it not creating competition is moot, considering having the option to buy a "brand" of car is competition.
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Car dealer unions, that's a beauty. It's a special interest group for sure, but the New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers aren't a labour union, they're the small hand of a huge corporate special interest.

Not that there's all that much to distinguish between the two, neither belongs in politics.
 
You can buy a car out of state but you then pay sale tax in both states, usually. Once when you buy the car and once when you register an out of state car. NJ has some really messed up laws. That said I never had any issue with not pumping my own gas since it was still cheaper than the other states that made me pump my own gas and still charged more for the gas.

As far as the jersey shore goes, any one who is dumb enough to believe reality TV has anything to do with reality is an effing moron. Even north jersey is not that weird. I grew up in NJ and we joked it was the armpit of ... then half a dozen different phrases, but it was due to sleazy politicians and screwy regulation not losers like those on the jersey shore.
 
drakken said:
You can buy a car out of state but you then pay sale tax in both states, usually. Once when you buy the car and once when you register an out of state car. NJ has some really messed up laws. That said I never had any issue with not pumping my own gas since it was still cheaper than the other states that made me pump my own gas and still charged more for the gas.

As far as the jersey shore goes, any one who is dumb enough to believe reality TV has anything to do with reality is an effing moron. Even north jersey is not that weird. I grew up in NJ and we joked it was the armpit of ... then half a dozen different phrases, but it was due to sleazy politicians and screwy regulation not losers like those on the jersey shore.
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Not true. You buy a car in another state without paying sales tax in that state unless you live there. You have to pay use tax in your state however.

I bought a new 2007 Jeep Rubicon 4 door in Arkansas and drive it back to Arizona and paid tax for it only in AZ, and only state tax, not city tax.
 
The buggy-whip salesmen have won another round!

*Sigh*

Don't ya just LOVE protectionism?
 
NJ also has the worst estate taxes in the country....They will even look back at gifts to your immediate family made up to 3 years prior to death, and tax it unless *you* can prove you didn't gift the assets in anticipation of death to avoid the tax, not if *they* can prove that you did....Truly despicable.

Way to go Christie and NJ! Maybe you can enlist the Slide Rule Union to block the sale of pocket calculators from Texas Instruments.
 
ol1bit said:
Not true. You buy a car in another state without paying sales tax in that state unless you live there. You have to pay use tax in your state however.

I bought a new 2007 Jeep Rubicon 4 door in Arkansas and drive it back to Arizona and paid tax for it only in AZ, and only state tax, not city tax.
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depends on the state

you got lucky, I guess, if you consider driving to Arkansas any level of good luck
personally I consider paying taxes in California a small price to pay so long as I can continue avoiding places like Arkansas
 
mope54 said:
depends on the state

you got lucky, I guess, if you consider driving to Arkansas any level of good luck
personally I consider paying taxes in California a small price to pay so long as I can continue avoiding places like Arkansas
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LOL, yea, a tad more to the story. I fly non-rev for free, so one way trip. Back when I bought it new on ebay in 2007, they were going for $4,000 over MSRP in Arizona.
 
Synful Serenity said:
NJ also has the worst estate taxes in the country....They will even look back at gifts to your immediate family made up to 3 years prior to death, and tax it unless *you* can prove you didn't gift the assets in anticipation of death to avoid the tax, not if *they* can prove that you did....Truly despicable.

Way to go Christie and NJ! Maybe you can enlist the Slide Rule Union to block the sale of pocket calculators from Texas Instruments.
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They do like to take your money.....that's for sure
 
At least New Jersey won't have random house fires from faulty chargers, batteries, and wires inside those electric cars. People can totally get back to just burning down their houses by falling asleep with lit cigarettes and joints in bed or on a sofa which is how the world is supposed to work! :mad: Oh and Elmo Monk is a loser who stole a vacuum tube idea from MIT to get media attention before announcing other junk. :mad:
 
Scythe said:
Why in the hell would states care if the manufacturer sells cars directly to the consumer? I don't see the point of these laws?
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Tesla tried to set up shop in one of the most Liberal states, that was the first problem... Liberals want money from Tesla who wont unionize, that's their second problem.

1. Fat Cat Union UAW want's in on Silicon Valley's money.

2.Politicians with greased pockets from UAW enforce these archaic laws if Tesla doesn't bow to Communist demands.

Here is a quote from Business Insider:
Business Insider said:
Campaign finance records show, the New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers' political action committee, CAR PAC, has made hundreds of political donations as the group lobbied on behalf of car dealers in the Garden State. In contrast, records show no donations to any politicians in New Jersey coming from Tesla, its employees, or the company's co-founder and CEO Elon Musk.
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So to break it down:
UAW declares it wants a piece of Silicon Valley in the form of a Unionization of Tesla Motors.
UAW plays "Tummy Sticks" with Democrat politicians, in a horribly Liberal state.
According to the National Institute of Money In Politics, the New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers and its employees gave a grand total of $696,749 to politicians and campaign committees in the Garden State from 2003 through 2009.
This is "Super PAC" money, greasing the pockets of Democrat and RINO politicians.

Did I mention The New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission and New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers are extremely Liberal?

Tesla can take this to the Federal court but that is also a bleak outlook.
Tesla needs to either unionize, suck cock, or pay a lot more than the $600,000 the super PACs have paid the politicians to sell any cars in that state.
 
Why would someone want a Tesla in Jersey with the could winter will beat the electric batteries to death anyways. That car isnt meant for cold states im sorry, plus all the gas station employees that need jobs to pump everyones gas is needed.
 
Maybe a compromise for NJ would be to hire someone to plug it in every night.
 
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