Amazon Accused of Cheating Customers Through Shipping Costs

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Apparently I don't understand what is being alleged here because this sounds like the dumbest lawsuit ever.

“The bottom line is the free shipping that Amazon offered to its Prime members wasn’t free,” said Kim Stephens, attorney for one of the plaintiffs, adding that he was “shocked” by Amazon’s alleged pricing practices.
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"For example, if the price of an item is advertised for $10 with $3.99 shipping and the [vendor] wishes to match or top their price, the [vendor] would charge $13.99 or higher," Burke alleges in the suit.
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I would say they need to go after ebay then since they've been doing this forever!

"New mint $100 bill, real US currency $0.99 buy it now! $149.01 shipping and handling"
 
Basically whats being alleged here is that Amazon was raising the price of items by what a vendor would charge for the same item plus shipping (i.e. Vendor 1 sells item for $29.99 + $5.99 shipping / Amazon Prime sells same item for $35.99 free shipping).
 
I have noticed that on occasion Prime prices are higher than none prime prices for the same item. For example, when I am not logged into Prime the price for an item is cheaper than when I am logged in. I just quickly tested it, a 35.3oz jar of Nutella is $12.49 when not logged in, and when logged into Prime it is $12.74 (I realize this is a poor example and the price difference does not cover shipping, I was in a hurry). I have noticed this repeatedly and often with much greater price differences.
I am still a fan of Prime. Plus, Amazon customer service is amazing, much better than the "egg"
 
Steve said:
what is being alleged here
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They allege that Amazon and their partners have colluded to fix prices higher, thus negating the free shipping Prime members enjoy.

I'm not a fan of Prime's 2-day shipping service because they never make it to me, in "dust bowl" TX on time, but it is technically... free. Prime and and non-Prime Amazon users alike pay the same prices for products through Amazon regardless of shipping charges so this lawsuit ain't going nowhere.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I would say they need to go after ebay then since they've been doing this forever!

"New mint $100 bill, real US currency $0.99 buy it now! $149.01 shipping and handling"
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That just it though, I am a Prime member, if I see two items...one is $9.99 with free Prime two day shipping and one that is $8.99 with free two day shipping for everyone...I buy the cheaper one. I'm not forced to buy the "Prime" version.

AND, although I may have to buy non-Prime items from time to time to save more money, I make out like a bandit on the free two day shipping.

Bottom line, if you aren't spending more than $99 a year on shipping...Prime isn't for you. If you ARE, like I am, then it is still the best deal in town...plus free movie streaming / book lending.
 
StryderxX said:
Basically whats being alleged here is that Amazon was raising the price of items by what a vendor would charge for the same item plus shipping (i.e. Vendor 1 sells item for $29.99 + $5.99 shipping / Amazon Prime sells same item for $35.99 free shipping).
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Except that the Vendor controls the pricing, not Amazon, so if the vendor wants to raise their price that is their prerogative ... whether Amazon "encourages" them to raise their price is academic (and one wonders how the person came by this knowledge and how they intend to prove it) ... free shipping costs aside, Amazon still has to compete (as do their vendors) in the open marketplace of the internet ... if they can raise prices and still be competitive then that is just good business on their side ... if their price increases make them more expensive than the competition then the consumer should buy somewhere else ... it is not Amazon's job to comparison shop for the consumer ;)
 
climb678 said:
I have noticed that on occasion Prime prices are higher than none prime prices for the same item. For example, when I am not logged into Prime the price for an item is cheaper than when I am logged in. I just quickly tested it, a 35.3oz jar of Nutella is $12.49 when not logged in, and when logged into Prime it is $12.74 (I realize this is a poor example and the price difference does not cover shipping, I was in a hurry). I have noticed this repeatedly and often with much greater price differences.
I am still a fan of Prime. Plus, Amazon customer service is amazing, much better than the "egg"
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There is a lot of pricing BFM going on inside the Amazon pricing algorithms (and there has been for years) ... it is well know that new shoppers at Amazon could get different pricing than established shoppers ... Amazon does have a dynamic pricing model that is proprietary and not fully understood ... that said, it is still the shopper's responsibility to get the best price (not Amazon's to give every shopper the lowest price) :cool:
 
Here I am, not paying for Amazon Prime like a boss, getting free shipping. I don't care for 2 day shipping, as long as it gets to me within a week. If I need something within 2 days, I'll go to the local store.

I also like to shop around and not limit myself to one source. Maybe Newegg, or Ebay, or TigerDirect, or Amazon. Each have their advantages.

Newegg <-- Usually cheaper prices.
Ebay <-- Cheaper prices, but you take a risk.
TigerDirect <-- The other Newegg
Amazon <-- Less fuckery Ebay version, with higher prices.
 
kbrickley said:
There is a lot of pricing BFM going on inside the Amazon pricing algorithms (and there has been for years) ... it is well know that new shoppers at Amazon could get different pricing than established shoppers ... Amazon does have a dynamic pricing model that is proprietary and not fully understood ... that said, it is still the shopper's responsibility to get the best price (not Amazon's to give every shopper the lowest price) :cool:
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News to me, man. How does this play out with Hoverhound. I read the rules and occasionally even click on the adds here, though I block the shit out of them just about everywhere else. If this is true... that's shady as hell.
 
What I always see is the non-prime items cost considerably less. Once I factor in two day shipping, they come out to the same price, or just a tiny but more than the prime item. I was actually figuring it up the other day because my wife and I were just talking about this, and we would have to spend a staggering amount of money on stuff from amazon to make up $99 in shipping, given the price offset. I don't really care for their streaming service, I much prefer Netflix, so that doesn't really factor into the price for me. I've been a prime member for 3 years, but I won't be renewing this year.
 
She essentially accusing the vendors that sell through Amazon of adding the shipping costs for the item to the item cost, not Amazon itself, and suing Amazon for it. She'll lose, of course, because Amazon is not responsible for the pricing of the vendors that sell through their service.

I've found a ton of things cheaper at Amazon than anywhere else, with free shipping from my Prime membership. I love it. They're very typically cheaper than NewEgg these days, but they don't require signatures for their packages many times. I recently had two packages stolen from my apartment front door because UPS just dropped them there rather than taking them to the leasing office. I lost a motherboard and a movie. I'm just lucky it didn't happen with my $500 video card I bought a couple months ago, which UPS just dropped at my door. That's the only gripe I have with Amazon.
 
Bluesun311 said:
News to me, man. How does this play out with Hoverhound. I read the rules and occasionally even click on the adds here, though I block the shit out of them just about everywhere else. If this is true... that's shady as hell.
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It's not really shady ... it's just a function of the enhanced data that a company may have on a consumer ... short of buying something from a street vendor in Asia (or someplace where you routinely negotiate prices on the fly) most things in the B&M world have fixed pricing (or change pricing en-mass as part of a sale) ...

since each internet shopper is an individual then a site can customize pricing (if it knows more about you) ... if there are no cookies or other elements that reveal information, most items have a standard base price ... if the site has access to additional information about the shopper they can make minor adjustments to that base price based on the shoppers history or the history of that type item in the shoppers demographic (making items that sell easily more expensive and items that sell less frequently cheaper) ... it isn't shady as much as just a side effect of the internet's and computer's ability to provide a more customized shopping experience that can benefit both the buyer and the seller (potentially)
 
I still don't get how Amazon works :(
Are they just a storefront for other vendors. You click "buy" and someone else fulfills the order? So on most items, I never really buy from Amazon but some unknown entity?
 
dgingeri said:
She essentially accusing the vendors that sell through Amazon of adding the shipping costs for the item to the item cost, not Amazon itself, and suing Amazon for it. She'll lose, of course, because Amazon is not responsible for the pricing of the vendors that sell through their service.

I've found a ton of things cheaper at Amazon than anywhere else, with free shipping from my Prime membership. I love it. They're very typically cheaper than NewEgg these days, but they don't require signatures for their packages many times. I recently had two packages stolen from my apartment front door because UPS just dropped them there rather than taking them to the leasing office. I lost a motherboard and a movie. I'm just lucky it didn't happen with my $500 video card I bought a couple months ago, which UPS just dropped at my door. That's the only gripe I have with Amazon.
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Any time I'm not going to be able to accept a package and anytime it's fragile or valuable I set up a hold for will call.

This is one thing I don't like about Fedex. They are not good about this and generally have deals with shippers to exclude the option. UPS My choice is fantastic, but my regular UPS guy is a sadistic SOB I've seen him throw packages from the back of the truck to the cabin.
 
the-one1 said:
I still don't get how Amazon works :(
Are they just a storefront for other vendors. You click "buy" and someone else fulfills the order? So on most items, I never really buy from Amazon but some unknown entity?
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Depends. Prime items ship from Amazon. Other items may or may not, but near the "add to Cart" button it will tell you who the vendor is or who is actually selling the item.
 
This is pretty simple: " there ain't no free lunch" plain and simple.

Amazon has " free prime shipping" , sure. Even if there is an inflation factor for the shipping, it's still at minimum to me in two days.
Not to mention the other Prime benefits and their customer service.

This plaintiff is truly an idiot, and so her lawyer. Good luck, honey.
 
A normal person when given the option of:

A.) $35.99 + Free Prime 2-Day Shipping
B.) $25.99 + $5.99 2-Day Shipping

is going to pick #2 and save 10%.

Now, I could see this lady's complaint IF, when she shopped, everything except Prime items were greyed out and she had no way of buying the lower priced item because she was being forced to pay for Prime items only.
 
Steve said:
A normal person when given the option of:

A.) $35.99 + Free Prime 2-Day Shipping
B.) $25.99 + $5.99 2-Day Shipping

is going to pick #2 and save 10%.

Now, I could see this lady's complaint IF, when she shopped, everything except Prime items were greyed out and she had no way of buying the lower priced item because she was being forced to pay for Prime items only.
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Or they would pick the lower price and lower or free standard shipping......provided time was not a factor.
A normal sensible person is going to actually shop and think about what they need and when.

It's suit is pretty lame, and I'm sure Amazon will point out the logic......unfortunately having to spend a million dollars in legal fees to defend itself.
 
climb678 said:
I have noticed that on occasion Prime prices are higher than none prime prices for the same item. For example, when I am not logged into Prime the price for an item is cheaper than when I am logged in. I just quickly tested it, a 35.3oz jar of Nutella is $12.49 when not logged in, and when logged into Prime it is $12.74 (I realize this is a poor example and the price difference does not cover shipping, I was in a hurry). I have noticed this repeatedly and often with much greater price differences.
I am still a fan of Prime. Plus, Amazon customer service is amazing, much better than the "egg"
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That is normal. Amazon prices can vary minute to minute. Last week I was logged in looked at a item prices was $25.95 five minutes later I refreshed the page and the price was $14.95 so I bought it, a half hour later price was again $25.95. Amazon was the vendor each time.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I would say they need to go after ebay then since they've been doing this forever!

"New mint $100 bill, real US currency $0.99 buy it now! $149.01 shipping and handling"
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booking agents for flights do something similar. they subtract 20 or so bucks so they show up on top in a search engine and add that later as a booking or credit card fee. a lot of people will book anyway since they would have to completely start over with their search and data entry.
 
StryderxX said:
Basically whats being alleged here is that Amazon was raising the price of items by what a vendor would charge for the same item plus shipping (i.e. Vendor 1 sells item for $29.99 + $5.99 shipping / Amazon Prime sells same item for $35.99 free shipping).
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Which he is absolutely correct about 99% of the time.

Amazon matches its vendors (or the other way around) in total price+shipping, and so you definitely aren't getting "free" shipping. The price is just included in the cost of the product.

People think that if they pay $100 a year, that they are paying for free shipping, and this is also not true.

Shipping price is already included in the product, but Prime offers you a subscriber expedited shipping fee, for which you pay a $100 lump sum and have free 4-5 day ground shipping speed increased to 2-day shipping for elligable items.

It is intentionally confusing.

That said, I still believe that Amazon is the least "evil" of the big box stores, has fantastic customer service, and I know of no business that isn't at least a little misleading in its marketing... marketing department isn't doing its job if they aren't, is probably what they all think. That said, I am most certainly not renewing my prime shipping that expires in two weeks.
 
This is entirely Amazon's problem, as retailers have been doing this for ages (A item on prime is $44.99, the same item non-prime from the same retailer is $39.99 and you pay $5 shipping) and amazon profits even more off the "Prime" priced item

I don't see the problem here Amazon, have only ONE price listing, and if somebody orders something and they have Prime membership, the shipping fee's are waved. There, I fixed the blatant open pricing flaws in your system ATM

They won't do this though, because Amazon profits off the current system, and that's the reason we need lawsuits like this, to FORCE them to fix the system when they're essentially ripping off their customers for $79.99 (Now $99.99) for nothing
 
I love amazon prime and definitely save well over a $100 annually, but I also price shop at newegg, tigerdirect, provantage, ebay, etc., etc.! Besides, amazon has the easiest return policy of anyone. Had a problem with OCZ not fixing firmware in a reasonable time frame a few years back and amazon let me return twenty-four (24) 240gb SSD's for full credit. Nobody else would have done that without a restocking fee!!!!
 
jrweis said:
I love amazon prime and definitely save well over a $100 annually
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Save on what? See this is what 99% of people say, man I've saved so much in shipping... saved what?

Anything that is Amazon Prime "free" shipping, already has the cost of free 4-5 day shipping included in the product, and if you didn't have prime it would STILL show up as "free" shipping, because shipping cost as said is already included.

The only way you save money is if you were paying each time to upgrade the free shipping to 2-day paid shipping, in which case that's fine.

But really the best way to say it is not that you saved a single penny really, but that $100 for receiving your Amazon packages in 2 days instead of 4 days is worth it.
 
The complaint in the Suit has merit as I've seen it before.

The problem is I don't see this as Lawsuit material. Widespread reporting and customer feedback should have been able to reduce this practice.
 
Anything that is Amazon Prime "free" shipping, already has the cost of free 4-5 day shipping included in the product, and if you didn't have prime it would STILL show up as "free" shipping, because shipping cost as said is already included.
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I mean I usually only purchase an item on Amazon if it is cheaper or nearly the same price as a competitor then choose the 5 to 7 day shipping which nearly always means 3 days for me.
 
the-one1 said:
I still don't get how Amazon works :(
Are they just a storefront for other vendors. You click "buy" and someone else fulfills the order? So on most items, I never really buy from Amazon but some unknown entity?
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Amazon is a mix of things:
*) inventory owned and fulfilled by amazon from amazon warehouses
*) inventory owned by a 3rd party, and fulfilled by amazon from amazon warehouses
*) inventory owned by a 3rd party, fulfilled by that 3rd party (or sub-contracted)
*) Maybe there's more? (there's some whitelabel options: run your own storefront, and send request to amazon to ship, etc)

You can see all three of the options for this SD Card

I personally am shocked that free shipping isn't just paid by Jeff Bezos, of course it gets built into the price of qualifying products.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Ducman69 said:
Save on what? See this is what 99% of people say, man I've saved so much in shipping... saved what?

Anything that is Amazon Prime "free" shipping, already has the cost of free 4-5 day shipping included in the product, and if you didn't have prime it would STILL show up as "free" shipping, because shipping cost as said is already included.

The only way you save money is if you were paying each time to upgrade the free shipping to 2-day paid shipping, in which case that's fine.

But really the best way to say it is not that you saved a single penny really, but that $100 for receiving your Amazon packages in 2 days instead of 4 days is worth it.
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I agree with what you say.
The Prime fee is two things:
1) an upgrade to automatic 2 day and discounted overnight shipping
2) membership in the book and video part.

If you generally use expedited shipping it does save you money....but just on that portion.
 
Not to mention, Amazon has frequently refunded me duty fees that may have been in excess. What other company does that?
 
B2BigAl said:
What I always see is the non-prime items cost considerably less. Once I factor in two day shipping, they come out to the same price, or just a tiny but more than the prime item. I was actually figuring it up the other day because my wife and I were just talking about this, and we would have to spend a staggering amount of money on stuff from amazon to make up $99 in shipping, given the price offset. I don't really care for their streaming service, I much prefer Netflix, so that doesn't really factor into the price for me. I've been a prime member for 3 years, but I won't be renewing this year.
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A non-prime eligible item would mean that it's not stored at Amazon's warehouse, so I could definitely see where the price discrepancy comes from. If someone can store it themselves and offer cheaper shipping through their contracts then you can get the item for less. As a vendor they are obviously having to pay an increased cost to have that item available through prime so they would need to offset that cost somehow.

A few of the benefits that are realized by the vendor through fulfillment by amazon is that they will give your customers support and deal directly with them for returns. You also tend to get prioritization of your item meaning that your item is much more likely to show up as an add to cart versus requiring the person to click the optional buy links. Also, your items can now be grouped with other vendors items so even people who don't have prime can benefit with free shipping. All of that comes at an increased cost to the vendor though hence why they need to charge more for the same item. They pay to ship the item to the warehouse regardless of what type of shipping method the customer uses to get it from there.

http://services.amazon.com/content/fulfillment-by-amazon.htm


As a customer there is definitely a bit more protection if you get the item through them than through a 3rd party. If for some reason you needed to contact customer service or return that item it's very easy to do so with amazon and there is 24/7 support. If you had to do that with someone who is reselling items out of their garage that's probably not always going to be the case.
 
climb678 said:
I have noticed that on occasion Prime prices are higher than none prime prices for the same item. For example, when I am not logged into Prime the price for an item is cheaper than when I am logged in. I just quickly tested it, a 35.3oz jar of Nutella is $12.49 when not logged in, and when logged into Prime it is $12.74 (I realize this is a poor example and the price difference does not cover shipping, I was in a hurry). I have noticed this repeatedly and often with much greater price differences.
I am still a fan of Prime. Plus, Amazon customer service is amazing, much better than the "egg"
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I've seen this as well. It doesn't matter if that doesn't cover shipping, it's still not "free" at that point if you're paying more.
 
the-one1 said:
I still don't get how Amazon works :(
Are they just a storefront for other vendors. You click "buy" and someone else fulfills the order? So on most items, I never really buy from Amazon but some unknown entity?
Click to expand...

Amazon originally was a cheap source to get cheap college books. Then it evolved into a different version of Ebay. They also stock and sell stuff themselves, and allow others to do so. So you have Amazon that can sell stuff, stores that can sell stuff, and individuals.

The only difference between Amazon and Ebay is that Ebay doesn't have it's own store. Ebay is also more likely to side with the seller then Amazon. Amazon does a pretty good job siding with customers. Amazon also has services for music, movies, and etc.

Thing is that when it comes to shipping, Amazon is expensive. Almost always Ebay is cheaper or just free. Depending on the seller, it's just as quick or quicker. Ebay's major problem is Chinese sellers. There are some really good sellers, but majority are just looking to rip off people. My worst experience has always been with a Chinese seller. You rarely have a problem with a USA or Canadian seller. Except that some of the Chinese sellers are moving to USA, cause people stopped buying from China.

Some sellers sell defective products that they expect you to find out and pay for shipping to return it. That's a problem I'm dealing with lately with a motherboard I bought twice from Ebay to replace the broken HP DV7 board. Some Chinese sellers never ship, and hope that you forget. You'd be surprised how many do that.

You can see why even with Amazon's higher prices and shipping, that it maybe a better place to shop then Ebay.
 
climb678 said:
I have noticed that on occasion Prime prices are higher than none prime prices for the same item. For example, when I am not logged into Prime the price for an item is cheaper than when I am logged in. I just quickly tested it, a 35.3oz jar of Nutella is $12.49 when not logged in, and when logged into Prime it is $12.74 (I realize this is a poor example and the price difference does not cover shipping, I was in a hurry). I have noticed this repeatedly and often with much greater price differences.
I am still a fan of Prime. Plus, Amazon customer service is amazing, much better than the "egg"
Click to expand...

Bluesun311 said:
They allege that Amazon and their partners have colluded to fix prices higher, thus negating the free shipping Prime members enjoy.

I'm not a fan of Prime's 2-day shipping service because they never make it to me, in "dust bowl" TX on time, but it is technically... free. Prime and and non-Prime Amazon users alike pay the same prices for products through Amazon regardless of shipping charges so this lawsuit ain't going nowhere.
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See post above your's, apparently they do.....
 
Where prime works best for me and what I mainly use it for is orders under $35 since you would need to pay shipping. Most of my orders are under $35, I don't care about 2 day shipping, but I don't want to pay $9.98 to ship a $7 usb switch. Then again I have the student membership so it pays its self quickly with orders under $35.
 
Still don't get why anyone pays for Prime. Everything I've ever bought on Amazon was either $35 or had free shipping for no logical reason and was still the least expensive total cost. Also the free option always arrived in 2 days anyway.
 
This is old news and was proven right when Amazon launched Prime. Log in to a Prime account and check prices. Now switch to another browser (or better yet browser and IP address) and watch the price change on you.
 
climb678 said:
I have noticed that on occasion Prime prices are higher than none prime prices for the same item. For example, when I am not logged into Prime the price for an item is cheaper than when I am logged in. I just quickly tested it, a 35.3oz jar of Nutella is $12.49 when not logged in, and when logged into Prime it is $12.74 (I realize this is a poor example and the price difference does not cover shipping, I was in a hurry). I have noticed this repeatedly and often with much greater price differences.
I am still a fan of Prime. Plus, Amazon customer service is amazing, much better than the "egg"
Click to expand...

Well...... I just looked at your example. I don't know about other things, and this one probably isn't a real example of it but I believe I found your discrepancy.

The 12.49 is sold by HBKDirect and fulfilled by Amazon.
The 12.74 is sold by InPrimeTime and fulfilled by Amazon.

However, they do show up differently if you are signed into prime or not. You do see the other choice though, under the "More buying choices." So it's almost bait and switch? Sorta? But it's really more like Amazon favoring one company over the other, which I think they should be free to do. Not that I really agree with it, but I think every shop does that.

If someone has a real example, I would love to see it. As I am interested in this.
 
Guess what, kneejerk Amazon defenders: You don't have enough information to evaluate the merits of this lawsuit. It's possible that the lawyers involved don't have enough to keep the suit going long enough to get that information, either, but if they have enough data points to convince a judge that something may not be quite right (surviving initial motion(s) to dismiss) they can compel Amazon to provide documentation regarding their pricing policies.

The assertions here that the lawsuit is without merit on its face are at best premature and probably the result of a bunch of people who think they're too smart to get scammed by even smarter people.
 
Never used prime, but the normal price changing going on is annoying that I stopped looking at Amazon. Bought a juicer on one day and the next day it was almost $50 more.

A great alternative is a free shoprunner account using American Express.
 
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