Best 5.1 Headphones?

M

mdk30

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
1,028
As part of building a new system soon, I'm looking to get some new headphones primarily for gaming so they need to have excellent surround positioning. I currently have Grado SR80s and think they're great for music, and just about any type of "normal" usage, but ever since 5.1 headphones started showing up on the market I can't help but think they'd be better for gaming.

The most press has been given to the Zalman 5.1s but from reviews I've read, I don't think they'll live up to my expectations for sound quality or positioning. The next "most popular" surround headphones seem to be the Ezonics Esound 5.1s but here again, from the reviews I've read I don't think this is the right product for the same reasons as I stated for the Zalmans.

The most impressive pair of 5.1 headphones I've found so far are the Medusa 5.1 headphones from Speedlink. They seem to be higher quality compared to the other two products I've already mentioned and include some unique and highly desirable features such as a headphone amp, and a built-in mic which would be perfect for multiplayer gaming obviously. The only downside to these headphones is that they aren't sold anywhere in North America as far as I can tell. Speedlink is a German company, and every distributor I've found for these headphones is based somewhere in Europe so the shipping to get these headphones is rather high. I've found a UK site that sells them for 60 pounds, or about 110 dollars, but the shipping is about 40 dollars I believe.

Here's the link if you want to check them out:
http://www.firebox.com/index.html?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=691&showAllImages=0

The reviews I've read seem to indicate that these are about the best 5.1 headphones on the market right now, but before I go out and spend probably close to $150 once everything is all said and done on these things, I thought I'd see if anyone else knew of some surround sound headphones that could give the Medusa a run for its money. So, anyone know of a challenger or should I just put my money down on these? Thanks.
 
I don't think any '5.1' headphone will meet your expectations for sound quality. This exact topic seems to come up at least once a week here. Search a bit and you will find out how much we all like these headphones. Short answer - don't waste your money. It is a gimmick and you will be better off with some good quality headphones.
 
jpmkm said:
I don't think any '5.1' headphone will meet your expectations for sound quality. This exact topic seems to come up at least once a week here. Search a bit and you will find out how much we all like these headphones. Short answer - don't waste your money. It is a gimmick and you will be better off with some good quality headphones.
Click to expand...

Well does anyone actually have the Medusa 5.1s that I've mentioned? I know all the easy-to-get 5.1 headphones aren't that great, but I've read rave reviews of the Medusa, they just seem to be harder to get and aren't reviewed by North American sites because they aren't sold here.
 
Well that page you linked to still reeks of marketing-speak. Do you really think there are two subwoofers in those headphones? If you look at the specifications, all the drivers have the same frequency range; they all go down to 20Hz. If all the drivers can go that low, then what is the point of a subwoofer, especially when the subwoofer has the exact same freqency range as the other drivers? They don't say anything about the response curve of the drivers, but from the looks of it, the 'subwoofer' drivers are mostly redundant. It just looks like a complete bullshit that they sell to people who always look for the product with the biggest number in the name.
 
No one ever believes me, I still say these are good. For some reason, everyone instantly says 5.1 is bad and cites only the fact that their 2D positioning isn't anywhere nearly as accurate as a 5.1 speaker system. Lol, their 2D is still a LOT more accurate than the 1D stereo headphones...

Personally, I'm getting clearer sound from these than I got from my old stereo headphones that someone borrowed and I still haven't seen back...

Now, if you get a more expensive version like these so called Medusas, chances are, they'll be even better. Besides, what's the harm in giving such a thing a try? The thing is, with something like that, I do believe you probably will have to just order them like that and it won't be cheap. From what I've read so far, they are normally only sold in the UK, so you are lucky you can even get them delivered I suppose. I've been looking around for you and I just don't find any exceptions to this rule.

EDIT: Lol, got an extra one in there on me. Yes, there are two subwoofers. My current headphones have their own little subs and they are much heavier than the normal speakers. The only catch is you still have to amplify the bass to these enough to properly utilize them since the amp doesn't really boost any frequencies, only ALL frequencies. I would presume something expensive wouldn't have this issue. Once I do that and set it all the way up, it gets them shaking so I can set them on the desk and just watch them vibrate. ^_^ For $50, having to enable the equalizer setting isn't such a bad deal IMO.
 
jpmkm said:
Well that page you linked to still reeks of marketing-speak. Do you really think there are two subwoofers in those headphones? If you look at the specifications, all the drivers have the same frequency range; they all go down to 20Hz. If all the drivers can go that low, then what is the point of a subwoofer, especially when the subwoofer has the exact same freqency range as the other drivers? They don't say anything about the response curve of the drivers, but from the looks of it, the 'subwoofer' drivers are mostly redundant. It just looks like a complete bullshit that they sell to people who always look for the product with the biggest number in the name.
Click to expand...

Well of course THAT site reeks of marketing-speak, they're selling the damn things there, its not a review site by any means unless you count the customer reviews at the bottom of the page. I didn't link to any reviews but you can go to Speedlink's English site and get links to a number of reviews for the Medusas which all seem to be very positive. Of course its ludicrous to say that there are actual "subwoofers" in a pair of headphones, but I think the point was that one driver in each ear is dedicated to passing along lower frequencies, just as the other 2 drivers in each ear are dedicated to the front and rear surround channels...
 
It's a little more than that. They use bigger heavier speakers for the sub channels. These are capable of handling low frequencies much better than normal speakers.

At least, I'm assuming they work kind of like these. After all, they are more expensive and get rave reviews. d-:
 
I'd suggest using your Grados and turning on 3d positioning sound support if your computer has it. It'll likely work just as well if not better than a crummy pair of headphones with eleventy billion drivers in them.
 
Nazo said:
No one ever believes me, I still say these are good. For some reason, everyone instantly says 5.1 is bad and cites only the fact that their 2D positioning isn't anywhere nearly as accurate as a 5.1 speaker system. Lol, their 2D is still a LOT more accurate than the 1D stereo headphones...

Personally, I'm getting clearer sound from these than I got from my old stereo headphones that someone borrowed and I still haven't seen back...

Now, if you get a more expensive version like these so called Medusas, chances are, they'll be even better. Besides, what's the harm in giving such a thing a try? The thing is, with something like that, I do believe you probably will have to just order them like that and it won't be cheap. From what I've read so far, they are normally only sold in the UK, so you are lucky you can even get them delivered I suppose. I've been looking around for you and I just don't find any exceptions to this rule.

EDIT: Lol, got an extra one in there on me. Yes, there are two subwoofers. My current headphones have their own little subs and they are much heavier than the normal speakers. The only catch is you still have to amplify the bass to these enough to properly utilize them since the amp doesn't really boost any frequencies, only ALL frequencies. I would presume something expensive wouldn't have this issue. Once I do that and set it all the way up, it gets them shaking so I can set them on the desk and just watch them vibrate. ^_^ For $50, having to enable the equalizer setting isn't such a bad deal IMO.
Click to expand...


What 5.1 headphones do you have? I'm assuming they're the Zalmans?

On another note, bashing 5.1 headphones because their surround positioning isn't as good as a 5.1 SPEAKER system is just absurd, I mean really now, the front and rear drivers in 5.1 headphones are millimeters apart compared to probably being 10 feet apart or more depending on the size of your room if you're talking about speakers. OF COURSE the speakers are going to have better positioning, that's just self evident. The thing that does matter to me is if they're even close to emulating a multichannel surround sound speaker setup without waking up the neighbors. I live in a townhouse and my neighbor's unit shakes whenever I play a movie, let alone Counter-Strike or any other game with near constant gunfire and lots of bass, so I have to use headphones, and if I'm going to, I'd like to have the best surround sound effect that I can get from them because I can barely even use my speaker setup.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'll be forced to get these headphones from somewhere in the UK, but you're right, at least you CAN get them. Thanks for looking around for me though, I looked a bit too, but I just don't think they sell them here at all.
 
No, sorry. Lol, it's in my signature, but, you'd probably have to know them to know just what you were looking at there. These are the Kinyo KY-100s. They cost me about $50 from newegg, and while you can see their cheapness in stuff like the cheap amp, they are actually surprisingly good for such a low price IMO.

And I just don't know why everyone acts like it's so bad that they aren't super accurate 2D. They are still more accurate than 1D...

Oh, and I have similar reasons. The person I live with goes to sleep at an incredibly early 9pm on some rare occasions and, at the absolute best, 11. Switching out of 3D mode can be a huge pain since you have to change the game options and speaker settings each time. This is where something like this setup comes in handy. I just turn off the speakers and turn on the headphones and I'm set. No alt-tabbing or having to save and come back or any of that stuff.
 
I have the Gainward 5.1 headphones, and its my opinion that there is no replacement for more physical speakers when it comes to surround sound.

You can emulate surround with stereo all day long, but at the end of the day you need to have other REAL points of sound coming at you.
For gaming and DVD, these "5.1" (more of a marketing term, most dont actually contain enough speakers to warrant the term) headphones are excellent.

For music, audiophiles who are used to extreme sound quality.. they will be bummed out because they are used to unparalled sound quality.
And for them, I believe Sony and Pioneer makes a $1500 set of 5.1 headphones that should suffice.

Thank God.. that I'm not one of those people.. because I can get away with using the $30-100 pairs and it sounds as good as what I'm used too.
I'm more interested in the actual SURROUND than the crisp quality or heavy bass.

Anyway now that I've explained some of the concepts on why surround headphones are probably the future for hardcore gamers, the Gainward actually do have enough speakers to qualify for 5.1.

They have two speakers that work in tandem to emulate a center. Two for the fronts, two for the rear and two low outputting "subs" in each earpiece.

My motherboard audio is not working correctly, so i'd welcome any of your expert advice. I have a thread up and think I might need a standalone soundcard.

As far as the "best 5.1 headphones" I think the Sony $1,500 pair are the best..

but I'd recommend the Gainwards that I bought from Newegg.
I've read bad things about the USB pairs' sound positioning. The Zalmans dont have much over the Gainwards to warrant their purchase and the Kinyos are said to have worse positioning than the Gainwards.

The other pair I'd recommend investigating other than the Gainwards (for the price) are the IO Magic Sound Assault headphones (like the Kinyos they have an amp).
 
Well you almost lost all credibility with your sig :p

I am not going to speak about cans I have never heard but I can say with all honesty that the Zalmans flat out suck. Nothing audiophile about it. The bass is weak, not inaccurate although it is, but rather like someone trying to fart through a blanket. Then some of the channels will occasional come through like it is coming through a tube or drain pipe. I have tried both with my sound card and the on-board sound on my mobo and boy did it stink.

That said, I have still not totally given up on the idea just feeling real leary. The Medusas do looking promising. They actually look like are pair headphones should. If anyone finds a US or Canadian importer they need to post it here.

To the earlier post about folks comparing these units to speakers. There is a simple reason for that. A good pair of headphones will blow away any set of speakers. Its not just a price to performance ratio, truly great cans cannot be touched by speakers. So that same expectation holds up for the 5.1 headphones, which obviously is not the case at this point but would still be the measure you should expect anyone serious about their headphones to do.
 
When 2 speaker headphones that cost $50 dont satisfy audiophiles, how do you expect headphones with 6-8 speakers in them that cost $50 to sound better?
At that price point, you are getting basic surround only.

If you want surround headphones that can stand up to your Grados, I can point you to the $1,500 Sony pair.
But its common sense that a 6 speakers that cost $50 in a headset are not going to have supreme fidelity... :rolleyes:
 
I have the Kinyo's KY-100s. I bought two of them from a nearby Circuit City as my brother wanted one too.

The hissing is there, only from the amp. Although, its not really annoying and very, very quiet. It can be easily fixed if you give it some good shielding.

I'm quite happy with the quality and the bass, although I am not much of an audiophile. The sound seperation isn't much to talk about either, but then again, I also never had a 5.1 speaker setup. This can be at fault to my onboard AC'97. I'm guessing the seperation can be vastly improved with a balance/fader option for each individual speaker or something that can shift the speakers' position on a virtual plane. Only soundcard that I found that I think does such a thing is that CMI8768 sound IC. The soundcard with it can be bought here: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=A-8768-8C-N&sourceid=qIrAQQ-zKkddAmWi1wAK

More details can be found out about the sound IC in the CMedia website, www.cmedia.com.tw , but it has been extremely slow for me so far. Haven't gotten enough clear and concise information about it.

If anyone else have any other ideas to improve the seperation of these headphones, I'd appreciate it.
 
ShinAli said:
I have the Kinyo's KY-100s. I bought two of them from a nearby Circuit City as my brother wanted one too.

The hissing is there, only from the amp. Although, its not really annoying and very, very quiet. It can be easily fixed if you give it some good shielding.

I'm quite happy with the quality and the bass, although I am not much of an audiophile. The sound seperation isn't much to talk about either, but then again, I also never had a 5.1 speaker setup. This can be at fault to my onboard AC'97. I'm guessing the seperation can be vastly improved with a balance/fader option for each individual speaker or something that can shift the speakers' position on a virtual plane. Only soundcard that I found that I think does such a thing is that CMI8768 sound IC. The soundcard with it can be bought here: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=A-8768-8C-N&sourceid=qIrAQQ-zKkddAmWi1wAK

More details can be found out about the sound IC in the CMedia website, www.cmedia.com.tw , but it has been extremely slow for me so far. Haven't gotten enough clear and concise information about it.

If anyone else have any other ideas to improve the seperation of these headphones, I'd appreciate it.
Click to expand...


so how do they sound in games man; can you hear stuff creep up from behind you ? I was looking at these too !!!
 
Why wouldn't they? They are stereo headphones, just very high quality stereo headphones (with an additional added benefit of noise canceling to cancel some of that outside noise so you don't have to hear the person you living with screaming at you to get off the game.) d-: Nice frequency response range and all. They are universally compatible though, so they'll work in any soundcard.

EDIT: Yeah, they are kind of ok for front/back. Not the best, certainly not as good as real speakers. Still, I can usually tell when something is behind me or to my left or whatever. Those Gainwards may truly be better mind you, I'd look into it. I'm sure those $1500 sony's will do it, but who can afford that. ^_^
 
Center, front and sides are good with the Kinyo's. Its a bit lacking in the rear channels, really. As I said, a bit of balance/fade would most likely fix it up, but I don't know any software that would set that for each individual speakers.
 
They sure do say virtual rather a lot though, don't they? As imperfect as this system might be, it's probably still better than virtual stuff.

EDIT: BTW, how DO you properly shield the amp? Lol, I'm still seriously considering making an adaptor using the second female plug in the amp, but they glued them in there pretty well.
 
Good stereo headphones with good 3d positioning sound is still going to be better than any of these gimmicky things.
 
Yeah, just like it's not a gimick to use virtual surround over stereo versus a 5.1 system...

Quit calling it a gimick people! They may not be 100% perfect, but it's a heck of a lot less of a "gimick" than virtual surround!
 
emorphien said:
Good stereo headphones with good 3d positioning sound is still going to be better than any of these gimmicky things.
Click to expand...
:p

Silly man.

Have u heard the pioneer 5.1 headphones>? :confused:
:rolleyes:
 
Nazo said:
They sure do say virtual rather a lot though, don't they? As imperfect as this system might be, it's probably still better than virtual stuff.

EDIT: BTW, how DO you properly shield the amp? Lol, I'm still seriously considering making an adaptor using the second female plug in the amp, but they glued them in there pretty well.
Click to expand...

A cheap way is to put a metallic conducting bowl over the amp while its in use. But as I said, the hissing isn't bad, you can get used to it easily. You can't hear it at all once sound is pumping through.

I would rather use a virtual speaker placement system rather than trying to tinker with the hardware. And its not going to be necessarily virtual 5.1 sound on the headphones, since they are already 5.1. If you can make the rear speakers of the headphones to actually sound like its behind you, then these would be perfect. And I'm guessing the 'Virtual SPEAKER SHIFTER' system on the CMI8768 would be great for what I want.

EDIT: Then again, I would need ALOT more information on the CMI8768 before I shell out 27 bucks for it. Should I persue this whole thing? It can probably also benefit other 5.1 channel headphones that need a tinker with their seperation.
 
foofighter06 said:
:p

Silly man.

Have u heard the pioneer 5.1 headphones>? :confused:
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
If you pay enough you'll get something that works.


Yeah, just like it's not a gimick to use virtual surround over stereo versus a 5.1 system...
Click to expand...
good headphones will generally have better positioning. that's why it works well just using stereo headphones.
 
The only thing you can do with one speaker versus three on each side is carefully control the volume levels and things like that to virtualize the effect. Do it right and it can kind of sound similar, but, in the end, you're definitely never going to know the difference between 45 degrees in front and 45 degrees in the rear. It's not as if those two speakers have motors hooked up to move them around or something, they are stationary...

The problem with the 5.1 headphones that actually have that many speakers is that with them so close together the sound tends to kind of run together. Also, the angle and everything is just all wrong because of the limited space. It also reflects wrong and that type of thing. It's almost more a weakness in our own hearing that we can't tell the difference really. In fact, it occurs to me that if you combine the two ideas properly, you might just have the perfect setup. Nonetheless, if you must choose one for gaming when you need 3D positional sound to at least a small extent, you will be more likely to hear something sneaking up in vaguely close to the correct direction from headphones that are using a seperate speaker to tell you which is front or rear.


Oh, and if you want to configure things more like what you described, many soundcards offer that stuff. I know my old Santa Cruz had something or other to this effect, unfortunately, the 3D hardware was pretty poor quality IMO and even with my speakers I couldn't even tell front from rear half the time unless I used software mode. My current card, the Audigy 2 ZS has a lot of heavy configuration options and I think somewhere in there was an option to adjust the supposed positions of the speakers themselves (eg directly affecting just how it plays through them.)

EDIT: Oh, and my previous point was only that it's kind of lame calling it a gimick to REALLY have multiple speakers but saying that virtual surround using tricks of volume to virtualize channels isn't... Ok, neither is perfect, merely if one is a gimick it must be the one using tricks rather than the one using the same method already used to accuracy scaled down.
 
The Medusa 5.1 headphones actually sound ok.

They are not as good as Sennheiser HD580's, or even AKG 240s

They have very crappy foam earcups with fake leather on them. They are round, but are small compared to the 580's.

They DO sound better than any of the basic U.S. available 5.1 headphones, but you have to go down to the local radioshack and by a 5v power converter for the power adapter on the 5.1 box. It only comes with the Euro Plug.

They sound better than the Zalmans
They sound better than the Kinyo
 
Nazo said:
Yeah, just like it's not a gimick to use virtual surround over stereo versus a 5.1 system...

Quit calling it a gimick people! They may not be 100% perfect, but it's a heck of a lot less of a "gimick" than virtual surround!
Click to expand...
And I suppose the viewmaster is just a gimmick since it only uses two images to make a 3d image instead of having multiple images in different positions. Oh wait it's not. You have two eyes so you can make a 3d image with just two images. Now if you just had two images on a piece of paper then it wouldn't be 3d. No. You need a way to have one eye see one and only one image and the other eye see the other and only the other image. Then the brain sorts it all out and you see a 3d image. Now on to the ears. How many ears do you have? I can't see my own ears to verify, but I'm pretty sure I have two ears. How many sources of sound do you need for 3d sound? Let's take a moment to review - 2 eyes plus 2 images makes a 3d image. Okay, 2 ears plus (you guessed it) 2 audio channels makes 3d sound. NO WAY! I MUST BE WRONG SINCE THERE ARE 5.1 SPEAKER SURROUND SYSTEMS!!! Oh but wait. With speakers that sound is going all over the place and bouncing off walls and everything. Some of the sound from the right speakers is hitting your left ear and some of the sound from the left speakers is hitting your right ear. This is naturally how your brain determines the location of a sound. The brain calculates when the sound hits each ear and from that tells itself where the sound is originating. All this is involuntary. I don't have to try to figure out where this sound is coming from. That's how our brain determines where a sound comes from. Okay. Remember the viewmaster? We got a 3d image by only letting each eye see one image. There is no overlap. If we take a proper audio recording(or an dynamically generated audio source(like what we get when we set our software to 'headphone' mode)) and put it through headphones then what do we get? We get one channel of audio going to one ear and the other channel of audio going to the other ear. Each ear only gets one channel. There is no overlap. That audio is going into your ears and then to your brain. Your brain can determine, by the precise timing of the audio, where sounds are coming from. If you were to put an earplug in one ear so that it completely blocks out all sound from entering that ear then you would have a hard time determining the position of a sound, just as you have a difficult time determining depth with only one eye.

5.1 headphones are a gimmick designed to take money from people who have too much of it and are willing to waste money on something that is new and is promised to help them with their gaming. Go ahead and spend your money on it. Enjoy it. I would rather buy 25 gallons of expired milk.

Edit: And another reason why 5.1 headphones are a big heap of shit. Remember how I said that the brain determines the position of a sound by comparing the sound received at BOTH ears? Well in these 5.1 headphones, the left rear channel is getting heard by ONLY the left ear. If it is getting heard by only one ear then how can the brain compute that it is coming from the rear? I sure as hell don't know.
 
Tell me, just how real do those 3D images seem to you? The best I ever saw was when I had one of those video cards that had the stereoscopic glasses with them and they really weren't that great. It looked neat, but, it still didn't feel all that 3D even in the real photographs taken with special cameras to demonstrate the capabilities of such a system. Besides, do I really need to say that comparing eyes and ears is like comparing apples and oranges?

Anyway, that's not really the point I wanted to make. You may only have two ears, but, they are set up in such a way that it doesn't matter. Those eardrums can tell which direction the sound is coming from by the way the sound affects them. I would presume it's something to the effect of (not necessarily exactly) sounds from in front hit the eardrums in front, sounds in the rear hit the eardrums in the rear, that kind of thing. Just like you can feel if someone touches you on the back and you don't mistake it for your front.

Now, once again, I must stress that I am NOT saying that the normal 5.1 headphones are great or anything, merely better than stereo when it comes to 2D positioning. The stereo headphones for the same prices probably DO have better quality speakers in them, I don't deny this. Anyone who truly cares so much about this kind of thing will want to get the really expensive ones I'm sure, and that's fine. And some people might actually not mind having to go through the whole process of switching back and forth between stereo and 5.1 in games and movies when they need to quieten down. I'm only saying that people over do it with the insistance that they are automatically horrible no matter what, then saying that stereo is more accurate. Maybe 5.1 isn't perfect, but how in the world can you believe a virtual system could be automatically better? More than anything else they just add a "widening" effect to make it FEEL more surrounding in most cases. Yes, I'm sure the more expensive ones use some acoustics tricks, but, in the end there's nothing you can do without some way to change the position for front and rear and those stationary speakers aren't going to change positions.

EDIT: BTW, about the bass, one thing I'd like to point out. All those 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, and so on systems with a sub internally boost the power to the sub. Hence the reason that only for the sake of amplification they have power inputs in the area of 14V+ with quite a bit more current than one would imagine even on the stereo 2.1 systems. Many of these headsets have the unfortunate downside in that the amp doesn't do this for them (a fault of the manufacturers, I admit.) So, in the end, it's not that the headsets lack the ability, but, they just aren't getting the power through those channels that they should be.
 
So then I suppose people with hearing aids are unable to localize sounds since everything they hear comes from two points. Somebody better hurry up and invent some 5.1 channel hearing aids so that these people can hear properly!
 
Was there a point to that? Last I checked, these people don't need to hear if someone is sneaking up behind them. They probably DO hear in stereo only, but, does it usually matter? If they don't hear right, they just say "speak up." Do you really think that they could properly utilize even a 5.1 SPEAKER system?

I didn't say you can't hear properly with stereo headsets, I said you can't hear 2D positioning correctly!

Oh, and I also said that just because you have two ears doesn't mean everything comes from two points.


Ok, look at it this way. You have two arms. If someone touches you, can you not tell if they touched you on the front or the back of your arm?
 
jpmkm said:
And I suppose the viewmaster is just a gimmick since it only uses two images to make a 3d image instead of having multiple images in different positions. Oh wait it's not. You have two eyes so you can make a 3d image with just two images. Now if you just had two images on a piece of paper then it wouldn't be 3d. No. You need a way to have one eye see one and only one image and the other eye see the other and only the other image. Then the brain sorts it all out and you see a 3d image. Now on to the ears. How many ears do you have? I can't see my own ears to verify, but I'm pretty sure I have two ears. How many sources of sound do you need for 3d sound? Let's take a moment to review - 2 eyes plus 2 images makes a 3d image. Okay, 2 ears plus (you guessed it) 2 audio channels makes 3d sound. NO WAY! I MUST BE WRONG SINCE THERE ARE 5.1 SPEAKER SURROUND SYSTEMS!!! Oh but wait. With speakers that sound is going all over the place and bouncing off walls and everything. Some of the sound from the right speakers is hitting your left ear and some of the sound from the left speakers is hitting your right ear. This is naturally how your brain determines the location of a sound. The brain calculates when the sound hits each ear and from that tells itself where the sound is originating. All this is involuntary. I don't have to try to figure out where this sound is coming from. That's how our brain determines where a sound comes from. Okay. Remember the viewmaster? We got a 3d image by only letting each eye see one image. There is no overlap. If we take a proper audio recording(or an dynamically generated audio source(like what we get when we set our software to 'headphone' mode)) and put it through headphones then what do we get? We get one channel of audio going to one ear and the other channel of audio going to the other ear. Each ear only gets one channel. There is no overlap. That audio is going into your ears and then to your brain. Your brain can determine, by the precise timing of the audio, where sounds are coming from. If you were to put an earplug in one ear so that it completely blocks out all sound from entering that ear then you would have a hard time determining the position of a sound, just as you have a difficult time determining depth with only one eye.

5.1 headphones are a gimmick designed to take money from people who have too much of it and are willing to waste money on something that is new and is promised to help them with their gaming. Go ahead and spend your money on it. Enjoy it. I would rather buy 25 gallons of expired milk.

Edit: And another reason why 5.1 headphones are a big heap of shit. Remember how I said that the brain determines the position of a sound by comparing the sound received at BOTH ears? Well in these 5.1 headphones, the left rear channel is getting heard by ONLY the left ear. If it is getting heard by only one ear then how can the brain compute that it is coming from the rear? I sure as hell don't know.
Click to expand...

Your example to me comes across as me saying:
Put two TVs in a room, one on the right side and on the left side... now, you have 3D.
When in reality, this is the same situation as having only having 1 speaker on each side of your head.

It simply cannot create surround sound because it HAS to come from multiple sources in your environment to truley and successfully trick your mind.

Please explain how two stereo speakers can fool your brain and ears into thinking a sound is coming directly from behind you?
THEY CANT.

You can use some audio algorithms to emulate a spatial field.. but not behind you.

We wouldnt use 5.1 surround for movies if it was possible. We'd put two "superior" stereo speakers up front and call the evolution of audio good!

The lesson is this: Yes two ears can percieve 3D sound, yes two eyes can see 3D objects. But that does not merely require TWO sources of images to fool either of the senses.
Two speakers, esp ones directly pointed towards your ears like standard headphones, cannot possibly create a 360degree sound environment. It can get close, but it cant do it. I know it can get close, because I am an old A3D fan.
But one of the reasons A3D is no longer around (besides Creative), is because these things are no longer needed... these types of GIMMICKS were needed before people and the industry had multiple point surround systems, and developed for such.

5 points of sound is getting much closer to bringing that to a reality.
Its simply the future, in ALL audio. Headphones/home stereos/movie theaters ect.


And I'd invite anyone to put that theory to the test on whether or not the brain can tell where a sound is coming from when only one ear hears it...

thats strange that when I test my speakers in my 5 point headphones, I can immediately identify where each sound is coming from when i turn on one source (right-rear for instance), or another like left front...

even though both my ears cannot hear it.. my brain seems to be able to identify its location quite fine.

The bottom line is that if you are a diehard music audiophile.. your going to love stereo because its still king in that realm. Hence the music industry sucking so badly, give me some surround sound music and maybe I'll buy a CD again someday..

But here in computer land where everyone has a 4 point or 5.1 sound system, some with dolby digital or better, stereo is long since dead. Same goes for movie nuts as well.

Like they say about car motors: There is no replacement for displacement... in audio there is no replacement for speaker placement. :D
 
Yes there certainly was a point to that. My point is that much of sound localization is a result of binaural hearing. Forward, backward, right, and left all largely rely on binaural hearing. Monaural sound localization is really only useful when binaural localization fails, such as when a sound source is directly above or below you, such that the sound reaching each ear is identical. EVERYONE hears in stereo. Everyone sees in stereo. My point is that people with hearing aids should, at least to some extent, be able to localize sound. Maybe you should read up on binaural recording. I'm not just making up all this stuff. It does have some foundation in logic and reasoning.

edit: the sense of touch is quite different. The body has many touch sensory nerves throughout the body.
 
lilpoopiepants: You need to work on your comprehension and understanding skills. My post was talking about HEADPHONES, not speakers. I thought I had made that painfully obvious.

If you put two tvs in a room then both your eyes are seeing both tvs. This is NOT what I was talking about. In my example, one eye would see ONE and ONLY ONE image while the other eye would see the OTHER and ONLY THE OTHER image. Please read my posts fully before responding.
 
Nazo said:
Was there a point to that? Last I checked, these people don't need to hear if someone is sneaking up behind them. They probably DO hear in stereo only, but, does it usually matter? If they don't hear right, they just say "speak up." Do you really think that they could properly utilize even a 5.1 SPEAKER system?

I didn't say you can't hear properly with stereo headsets, I said you can't hear 2D positioning correctly!

Oh, and I also said that just because you have two ears doesn't mean everything comes from two points.


Ok, look at it this way. You have two arms. If someone touches you, can you not tell if they touched you on the front or the back of your arm?
Click to expand...

And also to futher drive the point home... plug one of your ears really well, close your eyes and have someone snap their fingers around your head... yep, you still can percieve sound in 3D even with just one ear.

It has nothing to do with how many ears you have but how the sound is getting to you.
And its not possible when you have stereo speakers for the sound to come from more than one source.. you can dick with algorithms all day long but it wont cut it in the end.


There is no substitute for real speakers.


Its like holding your arm out to the right side of your head and snapping.... now try to figure out a way to make it sound like its coming from the center, or the left of you.. or best yet........ *drumroll*
from behind you. You can snap really loud and try to bounce it off the wall behind you if you want...

Yep, good luck!
 
jpmkm said:
lilpoopiepants: You need to work on your comprehension and understanding skills. My post was talking about HEADPHONES, not speakers. I thought I had made that painfully obvious.
Click to expand...
It makes no difference and that is exactly what I was pointing out.

Headphones are speakers, speakers are in headphones! :cool:
 
lilpoopypants said:
It makes no difference and that is exactly what I was pointing out.

Headphones are speakers, speakers are in headphones! :cool:
Click to expand...
Are you fucking kidding me? Let me spell it out for you. Read carefully now. Here it comes. I've said it several times before but I'll say it again JUST FOR YOU, since you apparently have a problem with reading everything.

With speakers, both your ears hear sound from BOTH speakers. Your left ear hears sound from the left and right speakers and your right ear hears sound from the left and right speakers. Now here's the kicker. This part is truely mind-blowing. With headphones, your left ear hears ONLY the left channel and your right ear hears ONLY the right channel. No difference, eh? I challenge you to find a difference. It might keep you up all night, but you'll find it eventually.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top