Deployable wifi network setup for many users

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sram

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jul 30, 2007
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Hi,
Okay so I know some wifi because I have been using since it started but I'm not the expert who knows everything. I'll try to explain the scenario to the best of my ability. It has to do with hunting trips and camping in deserts. Imagine being in a remote location where there is no internet and your only option is satellite internet. So you will have your internet source (Say a starlink ~200 Mbps), and then you will need to create a network with multiple wifi access points distributed in a certain area serving say several tents each with few persons. Once you connect your device to one access point, you should be able to connect to any other access point automatically (like what happens in hotels) because you already authenticated once before. The SSID should be the same of course across all access points. You should be able to switch between access points seamlessly as you move between tents or in the covered area. There can be a different SSID for guests as not to disturb the main network.

Of course 200 Mbps may not be enough for >300 users, so more than one satellite link can be used. The network need to be configurable so that some users can be given priority over others or a certain bandwidth can be dedicated for them. The coverage need to be easily extendable. I know mesh networks provide part of the solution here. I haven't used them though.

What I'm trying to get is : Are there deployable WiFi kits that be set up quickly for such purposes ? Or are they just custom built? Of course sometimes you don't want to use cables so airfiber will be good alternative to reach further locations.

So yeah, I'm wandering if such setups exist which you can unpack, use somewhere and then repack again in order to unpack and use somewhere else. Hopefully I was able to get the point across.

Thanks in advance for any input.
 
Accoridng to GPT something like this :
https://www.deploydepot.ca/ubiquiti-amplifi-alien-wifi-kit/

Would offer mesh out of the box and an app that let you put 3 categories of device with 3 level of priority and you can add extender or a second alien kit to the first one.

As a warning ubiquiti will tend to always be on the top price for things and can easily be overkill for non commercial use, so just an example of a all pre-made solution, they tend to be good quality, nice to use software too and nice community ressource-help out there

Linksys equivalent could be better price:
https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/linksys-velop-ax-mx10

Do they need to be outdoor weather resistant ?
 
This is not for personal use. You can treat it as commercial. Money is not an issue.

With the kits you linked, you can add as many nodes as you want, right?
 
No limit I think:
https://help.amplifi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360039345494-About-AmpliFi-Alien-
The Alien product line is not "mesh-able" with our other product lines (HD, Gamer's Edition or Instant), since this would cause a degradation to the Alien and cause poor performance (see information on how to pair in third party mode below). We recommend using multiple Alien routers to create a WiFi 6 Mesh network. There is no limit to the number of Alien routers you can Mesh together. Please note that the Teleport hardware device is also not compatible with the Alien products, but the Teleport Router to Router or Teleport App VPN software will work perfectly with the Alien router.

  • Alien + Standalone AmpliFi HD: You can add a standalone AmpliFi HD device (router or MeshPoint) to the Alien router's network in third party extender mode. We do not recommend this if it can be avoided since it will not fully integrate to the Alien, and there will be a loss of features. However it can be set up to extend the SSID and signal.
But they are indoor device.
 
sram said:
This is not for personal use. You can treat it as commercial. Money is not an issue.

With the kits you linked, you can add as many nodes as you want, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, there are many solutions in this area, and unless you are Jerry rigging something amplif alien ain't it Imho. Ubiquity itself maybe, but meh it used to have some flaws, be somewhat beta like and cheaper than competitors. Now it's just one of many at the same price point.

If its business write out an RFP and sign a contract with a provider. I've worked emergency management where we literally had pelicans shipped to site and all you had to do was connect power. But there is so much variation based on your needs.
 
If I was doing this, I'd use peplink or cradle point for routing and combining wans. Then I'd use a couple of ruckus access points that should cover your entire basecamp when raised onto a mast or telescoping antenna. Not much equipment and not much configuration in the field if you do it in the lab before deployment. Very similar to the 'pelicans shipped to the site and connect power' scenario except all done in-house.
 
I'd rather sign a contract with a provider. I like the idea of "pelicans shipped to the site and connect power" scenario. This is actually what I want. If money is not an issue, and you want the highest quality possible, which provider you would recommend? Cisco? Ubiquiti? Some ISP's?
 
SamirD said:
If I was doing this, I'd use peplink or cradle point for routing and combining wans. Then I'd use a couple of ruckus access points that should cover your entire basecamp when raised onto a mast or telescoping antenna. Not much equipment and not much configuration in the field if you do it in the lab before deployment. Very similar to the 'pelicans shipped to the site and connect power' scenario except all done in-house.
Click to expand...
I will look into this
 
Ok I feel I am uniquely qualified for this..

I am the IT manager for one of the biggest fruit producers in the southern hemisphere and need coverage for big fields (480m square - and not level) of fruit trees.

We looked at ruckus, but at $3k per point plus infrastructure, unless you have a high density of users, it’s not worth it.

We ended up using Unifi AC Mesh Pro points. One point sufficiently high enough (2m) will provide coverage to 300m for around 100 users with moderate foliage in all directions. They will do 400m with clear line of sight. At those distances, expect 18mbps or so. We will be deploying 3 in a triangle for the 480m^2 field for redundancy, coverage and load sharing.

1687859172424.jpeg

These can be used in mesh config, but work better if they have a wired back haul. As a bonus they are 10x less expensive than ruckus points.

They require Poe+ which all of our switches support, and Mikrotik net power 16p are more than capable, but the points come with Poe+ injectors for mesh use.

You could put these on telescopic poles, or even long star pickets.

To manage your bandwidth you need good QoS, a Mikrotik RB5009UPr can do it, or you could go something simpler to manage like a fortigate 70F. A shortcut here could be using a Mikrotik then deploying SQM using fq_codel or cake. With either of these devices you can run multiple starlink connections in round robin config.

You would be best using a Unifi cloud key for the access points. It also runs on Poe+

A word about starlink: Expect to get 50mbps down/7mbps up per connection. More is possible, but operate on that as a worst case state. So if you have 300 users that all need to get 10mbps, you’re going to need a lot of starlink devices, QoS is literally the only way you are going to manage this in any reasonable way.

If money is no object, then ruckus T750s would be my go to, they need a bunch of infrastructure (Poe++ for one) but for what you’re talking about, probably overkill.

If you need density (500+ devices on a single point) Unifi have a point for that too, it is about $1300, still cheaper than ruckus.
 
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You guys have some good comments. So what's so special about ruckus access points that makes them recommended and more expensive? And you say there is a limit for how many users who can connect to one access point? This will depend on the access point specs? So 500+ users can connect to the network via one access point and I can have another 500 users connecting to the same network via another access point?

What is the limit of users of regular access points we use at home? I'm not talking about the ip address pool but rather how many devices can connect to the network via one access points. Thanks.
 
Wireless spectrum on site and traffic from client's limits total number an AP can handle. Most business AP's publish or indicate in some way how many they top out at.

And $1300 for 500+ gtfo. If that's true Ubiquiti is nuts or just bad at marketing. My $100 omada specs 2000+

Really if you are asking this get a provider, go to an IT consultant.
 
kydsid said:
My $100 omada specs 2000+

Really if you are asking this get a provider, go to an IT consultant.
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LOL .... Yes it does make that claim with a huge disclaimer that it hasn't been tested and the number is based purely on estimated performance AND is subject to change. Meaning when you phone in to support to complaining that it falls on its face at 200 connections the actual numbers supported will change. You are absolutely spot on about getting a consultant, specifically a wireless consultant not just a random IT guy. High density wifi is specialty that requires someone that understands not only what their devices can do in the lab but in the field as well. The OP also needs to understand if the field changes that it is likely the solution will change somewhat as well. Wireless solutions are hightly dependent on the environment in which they are deployed. What works well in one location may well be garbage in another.
 
sram said:
You guys have some good comments. So what's so special about ruckus access points that makes them recommended and more expensive? And you say there is a limit for how many users who can connect to one access point? This will depend on the access point specs? So 500+ users can connect to the network via one access point and I can have another 500 users connecting to the same network via another access point?

What is the limit of users of regular access points we use at home? I'm not talking about the ip address pool but rather how many devices can connect to the network via one access points. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Ruckus’s points have the best antennas. That really is the key to having clear and fast wifi.

As for user limits, it depends on the number of antennas and the bandwidth allocation. If you have 3 antennas and you are using 20 mhz channels on the 2.4 ghz spectrum, you are limited to 18 mbps per antenna (3x18 Mbps), which is shared over however many users.

Memory and processor power of the point also is a limiting factor.

Yes having two points will let you have more people connected than one point
 
As noted, enterprise level gear costs more because they are built better, higher quality atenna's and are built for boat loads of users and have other enterprise level features built into them.
 
kydsid said:
And $1300 for 500+ gtfo. If that's true Ubiquiti is nuts or just bad at marketing. My $100 omada specs 2000+
Click to expand...

Good luck with that. You will be sorely disappointed. You will notice the “$1300” point has 10 gig Ethernet and a lot of antennas, that’s not by accident.

The average prosumer point can handle about 30-50 clients. To handle more you need more power (processor), you need more ram and you need a better antenna/more antennas. You also need the bandwidth to it to make it worthwhile.

I have had 50 laptops on one standard ac pro point. They start to struggle at that point.

Partly this is because of protocol overhead, partly this is due to signal noise, partly due to congestion.
 
Nicklebon said:
LOL .... Yes it does make that claim with a huge disclaimer that it hasn't been tested and the number is based purely on estimated performance AND is subject to change. Meaning when you phone in to support to complaining that it falls on its face at 200 connections the actual numbers supported will change. You are absolutely spot on about getting a consultant, specifically a wireless consultant not just a random IT guy. High density wifi is specialty that requires someone that understands not only what their devices can do in the lab but in the field as well. The OP also needs to understand if the field changes that it is likely the solution will change somewhat as well. Wireless solutions are hightly dependent on the environment in which they are deployed. What works well in one location may well be garbage in another.
Click to expand...
Your note about the environment is key to this query. And this is what the customer may be suffering from. They may have a solution that works somewhere and when it doesn't work somewhere else they complain that the solution is bad.
 
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