Intel discloses $7 billion operating loss

erek

erek

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“Intel plans to spend $100 billion on building or expanding chip factories in four U.S. states. Its business turnaround plan depends on persuading outside companies to use its manufacturing services.
As part of that plan, Intel told investors it would start reporting the results of its manufacturing operations as a standalone unit. The company has been investing heavily to catch up to its primary chipmaking rivals, TSMC and Samsung Electronics Co Ltd (005930.KS)”

Source: https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel-discloses-financials-foundry-business-2024-04-02/
 
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Intel CEO: Foundry Business Won't be Profitable Until 2030​


https://www.extremetech.com/computing/intel-ceo-foundry-business-wont-be-profitable-until-2030

Gelsinger also admitted that its slow uptake of extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) and lack of investment in its foundry business have resulted in the company playing catch up. Gelsinger summarized what transpired over the past few years in the industry: "The U.S. and the Western world became far behind our Asian peers." He said the response to that clear differential in technology leadership is IDM 2.0, which will culminate this year with the Intel 18A process.

Speaking of the path forward, Gelsinger says Intel is well aware of its past mistakes and will not repeat them. He admitted that the company went to great lengths to avoid using EUV for the Intel 7 process for Alder/Raptor Lake, and ultimately, that decision led to processors that were "deficient in power performance area and cost." That is not the case with its upcoming nodes, including Intel 3 and Intel 18A, according to Gelsinger.
 
Cannot say I am surprise due to how much EUV machine cost from ASML and the lack of customer Intel has due to TSMC dominance. Intel needs to prove that it can deliver on time before any customer will switch from TSMC to IFS, that being said, I do think they have a better shot at it than Samsung foundry.
 
Chimpee said:
Cannot say I am surprise due to how much EUV machine cost from ASML and the lack of customer Intel has due to TSMC dominance. Intel needs to prove that it can deliver on time before any customer will switch from TSMC to IFS, that being said, I do think they have a better shot at it than Samsung foundry.
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If anything the fact it’s only $7B is somewhat impressive.
 
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What I see is a FAILED company, Intel, trying to resurrect itself, when the true course of action; the absolute ideal that would lead to a better future, is for someone else to REPLACE Intel fully, and let new blood into the industry. Instead, I guess investors and government want to support Intel and only Intel, as if Intel was a surrogate government; a corporation so well marketed that it ends up "too big to fail." But it SHOULD fail! And all of its patents should be released to the public so that we can actually begin to compete with AMD on the x86 front with original designs and ideas.

Intel is so monolithic and so incredibly out of our reach as normal people, consumers, business owners, inventors, engineers, etc, that even if you had an idea for the sort of technology necessary to create the next generation of semiconductors, you would not be chosen! Not by investors, not by government, and you wouldn't even be noticed by Intel. By no one! No one will ever believe in YOU! You can NEVER build your idea and get it sold at Microcenter, to be plugged into a typical computer's motherboard. It can't be sold because you don't have the license/patent! Hahah loser loser loser! You ask for competition, but you are prohibited from competing in the only place it matters!

Instead, it is Intel who will put on the costume of the hero-of-the-west, but they will FAIL! They will fail in the long-run because all that they can do is hope to mimic their own past, like a 60 year old man trying to relive their youth by buying the coolest car of 1988. But that time is long-gone! Now all we see is an old man compensating for his failure to actually be cool when it mattered.

The evolution of technology by humanity is only possible when patents/licenses do not stop us from improving current technology. This is beyond obvious, and even a half-free-market would allow this to happen.
 
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1337Goat said:
What I see is a FAILED company, Intel, trying to resurrect itself, when the true course of action; the absolute ideal that would lead to a better future, is for someone else to REPLACE Intel fully, and let new blood into the industry. Instead, I guess investors and government want to support Intel and only Intel, as if Intel was a surrogate government; a corporation so well marketed that it ends up "too big to fail." But it SHOULD fail! And all of its patents should be released to the public so that we can actually begin to compete with AMD on the x86 front with original designs and ideas.

Intel is so monolithic and so incredibly out of our reach as normal people, consumers, business owners, inventors, engineers, etc, that even if you had an idea for the sort of technology necessary to create the next generation of semiconductors, you would not be chosen! Not by investors, not by government, and you wouldn't even be noticed by Intel. By no one! No one will ever believe in YOU! You can NEVER build your idea and get it sold at Microcenter, to be plugged into a typical computer's motherboard. It can't be sold because you don't have the license/patent! Hahah loser loser loser! You ask for competition, but you are prohibited from competing in the only place it matters!

Instead, it is Intel who will put on the costume of the hero-of-the-west, but they will FAIL! They will fail in the long-run because all that they can do is hope to mimic their own past, like a 60 year old man trying to relive their youth by buying the coolest car of 1988. But that time is long-gone! Now all we see is an old man compensating for his failure to actually be cool when it mattered.

The evolution of technology by humanity is only possible when patents/licenses do not stop us from improving current technology. This is beyond obvious, and even a half-free-market would allow this to happen.
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Even after the $7B in losses on the foundry side they are still up just short of $3B as a whole and that’s included with eating the losses from Arc.

Intel is currently fine, but their fabs are a full 2 generations behind where they need to be.
 
Lakados said:
If anything the fact it’s only $7B is somewhat impressive.
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Could it be how they amortize those kind of spending, I would imagine.

Operating loss sound more like to day operation being negative and would not include the spending on yet to be involved in revenue infrastructure and for those who are now in operation their cost amortize over some life expected time.
 
1337Goat said:
But it SHOULD fail! And all of its patents should be released to the public so that we can actually begin to compete with AMD on the x86 front with original designs and ideas.
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Even if Intel did get wound down, their patents would be sold, not abandoned. That said, patents are 20 years right? I think that gets you SSE3 as patent free, and that's around what you need for Windows 10?
 
LukeTbk said:
Could it be how they amortize those kind of spending, I would imagine.

Operating loss sound more like to day operation being negative and would not include the spending on yet to be involved in revenue infrastructure and for those who are now in operation their cost amortize over some life expected time.
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Operating loss includes almost everything involved with the business running other than financial investments / interest income. Think of everything the business itself is doing to generate income and expenses that go out. The cost of the manufacturing of these plants is included in that number. Things that wouldn't be included would be like if Intel had income from ownership of outside businesses, EG: Mobileye.

Business losses can also be offsetting to income to avoid corporate taxes. Intel has a fleet of legal, tax accountants, and other people that work the numbers for best; tax outcome and public perception.
 
1337Goat said:
What I see is a FAILED company, Intel, trying to resurrect itself, when the true course of action; the absolute ideal that would lead to a better future, is for someone else to REPLACE Intel fully, and let new blood into the industry. Instead, I guess investors and government want to support Intel and only Intel, as if Intel was a surrogate government; a corporation so well marketed that it ends up "too big to fail." But it SHOULD fail! And all of its patents should be released to the public so that we can actually begin to compete with AMD on the x86 front with original designs and ideas.

Intel is so monolithic and so incredibly out of our reach as normal people, consumers, business owners, inventors, engineers, etc, that even if you had an idea for the sort of technology necessary to create the next generation of semiconductors, you would not be chosen! Not by investors, not by government, and you wouldn't even be noticed by Intel. By no one! No one will ever believe in YOU! You can NEVER build your idea and get it sold at Microcenter, to be plugged into a typical computer's motherboard. It can't be sold because you don't have the license/patent! Hahah loser loser loser! You ask for competition, but you are prohibited from competing in the only place it matters!

Instead, it is Intel who will put on the costume of the hero-of-the-west, but they will FAIL! They will fail in the long-run because all that they can do is hope to mimic their own past, like a 60 year old man trying to relive their youth by buying the coolest car of 1988. But that time is long-gone! Now all we see is an old man compensating for his failure to actually be cool when it mattered.

The evolution of technology by humanity is only possible when patents/licenses do not stop us from improving current technology. This is beyond obvious, and even a half-free-market would allow this to happen.
Click to expand...
intel has decades of technical expertise and billions in infrastructure that couldn't be replicated overnight, even if their patents were open source.

Each chip and lith-tech is also more than one idea. Forget about patents - you're not building YOUR idea, because you don't have the tens of billions of capital to get it off the ground!

Competition is good and intel is still in a position to potentially make it happen. They may not succeed, but good luck to them all - it's in our best interests.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
intel has decades of technical expertise and billions in infrastructure that couldn't be replicated overnight, even if their patents were open source.

Each chip and lith-tech is also more than one idea. Forget about patents - you're not building YOUR idea, because you don't have the tens of billions of capital to get it off the ground!

Competition is good and intel is still in a position to potentially make it happen. They may not succeed, but good luck to them all - it's in our best interests.
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It also looks like their 10nm process can be used for various memory technologies and their 14nm could be in huge demand to take over many products still using the 20nm and larger formats. Their 14++++++++ node is tough as nails and pretty bullet proof. The raw silicon is currently too valuable for companies to keep their products on the older nodes, prices will force them to move onto newer nodes. And big changes in the Automotive sector will finally see them moving off the 60 and 90nm nodes that much of their components still use.
 
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