Inquirer shows the 3.0ghz without "Canned" images

Heh, probably the first time I'll ever say it, being it is the Inquirer and all, but... Go Charlie go! :D I don't get why it is so hard for some people to accept the not so far fetched possibility that AMD can come out with a quad at 3.0Ghz at this point in time,(or in this case, two of them, even though they are engineering samples) After all, AMD is are one of the most secretive microchip companies out there when it comes to their next gen stuff. As far as all the others griping about the lack of benchmarks for the K10, I have two words for you: OSBORNE EFFECT.
 
Lou Ceifer said:
As far as all the others griping about the lack of benchmarks for the K10, I have two words for you: OSBORNE EFFECT.
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Osborne effect is already occurring, whether or not they give us benches. If anything, it would only quantify the gains we would get from upgrading. Anyone who was waiting for the K10 wasn't about to waste more money on K8 platform anyway.
 
I just wish they had let the people there run benchmarks on the system like Intel did with Conroe last year.
 
You would think that it makes sense. And if you thought that, you would be correct. A company like AMD or intel is run by morons who fill jobs that are not needed. You know that, we know that, we who buy C2D and chucked amd completely know that, we who caused a massive 600 million dollar profit loss know that, but, the executives like to think they know something better.

sad but true. nothing can be gleaned from such stupidity and secretiveness besides stupidity and snobbery.
 
Lou Ceifer said:
Heh, probably the first time I'll ever say it, being it is the Inquirer and all, but... Go Charlie go! :D I don't get why it is so hard for some people to accept the not so far fetched possibility that AMD can come out with a quad at 3.0Ghz at this point in time,(or in this case, two of them, even though they are engineering samples) After all, AMD is are one of the most secretive microchip companies out there when it comes to their next gen stuff. As far as all the others griping about the lack of benchmarks for the K10, I have two words for you: OSBORNE EFFECT.
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Try looking up Osborne Effect before you say it is happening next time:


Osborne Effect
 
Cannon_Fodder said:
Try looking up Osborne Effect before you say it is happening next time:


Osborne Effect
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I've already been well versed on about it here and on various other forums(particularly when Intel was doing the "yard sale" for their warehouse full of what some termed "obsolete" P4 wares right before C2D's release last year for example) but thanks for assuming anyway! :rolleyes:

Mav451 said:
Osborne effect is already occurring, whether or not they give us benches. If anything, it would only quantify the gains we would get from upgrading. Anyone who was waiting for the K10 wasn't about to waste more money on K8 platform anyway.
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Errrr... no? Sorry folks, but enthusiasts at sites like HardOCP here make up about at best 1% of the market, we are unfortunately an ant fart in the wind when it comes to being a driving financial force in the overall market.(but amazingly sometimes we get catered to thankfully ;) ) Sadly, people like Joe Blow Shmoe dictate where the market goes, therefore if AMD was marketing the Phenom X4 or Phenom X2 to them in actual TV commercials or something we would likely see an osborne effect for AMD and it's K8 sales.

Now, what you are describing though, is someone switching to Intel for those who are not brand loyal, much less patient for their next upgrade, if they were waiting on AMD's next gen processors to get on the market this year, obviously. It's also referred to as loss of market share, something AMD had alot of last year and in 1Q this year. Gratefully for AMD I'm sure, I've just learned they have managed to claw back to 22% share in Q2, I estimate due to the nice price/performance range they have settled into untill the Barcelona Opterons and Phenom X2/X4's hit the market.

ajhodges said:
I dont think he was saying it was happening, I think what he was trying to say is that AMD is trying to prevent it from happening?
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DING DING DING!

We havvvv a winna! :D
 
It all depends on what the inquirer is trying to tell you. This is something that Kyle and all the other people there could easily turn around and call him on if he was lying. It's the sketchier stuff like "I have a friend of a friend who works at AMD who says that theyre going to put reverse hyperthreading in K8L!" that you have to take with a ton of salt.
 
Manny Calavera said:
Well,apparently its hailed as gospel now,at least on this forum. :D
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At least their writer was there.:rolleyes: To those who maintain their snobbery of the Inq - that's ok. They got you this time, even if you can't - or wont' - believe their writer. So is he a liar?
 
DailyTech = FAIL
Kristopher Kubecki = Day old turd

Speculation is one thing, when it is stated as such - as a rumor, etc. Flat out lying about being at an event when you weren't there is piss poor.

Right now, the Inquirer has 20x more credibility than Kristopher Kubecki and Daily Tech. At least the Inq was there, for God's sake, which is more than can be said about KK and DT.

AMD has made plenty of mistakes lately - there is no reason for that kind of crap.

Here is what Anand said:

Link

" In the end, performance was absolutely terrible. We're beginning to understand why AMD didn't let us test Barcelona last month. It's not that AMD is waiting to surprise Intel; it's that the platform just isn't ready for production yet."

Was he even there, either? It didn't sound like people that were THERE felt that way. AMD has enough of a hard road without idiots like KK making things up. Shame on them!!!
 
So I take it Anand is on Intels marketing payroll as well ? :)

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2986&p=7

Undoubtedly Agena and Agena FX work. We suspect that clock speeds aren't quite as high as they need to be but we don't doubt that AMD can get there by its scheduled release sometime in the second half of this year.
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The INQ is a pariah,mostly always has been one,but the second it claims to support AMD fans views,(or I should really say,their hopes and dreams),its the second coming ?

Something is not right here.

I never claimed the chip was not running at 3Ghz,others on this forum did.

Although the fact that they would not let even Kyle take a gander at the system props does stink,of some sort of funny business.What do they have to hide ? I would like independant benchmarks,and think we have all waited long enough for them.! AMDati needs to release some very,very soon,like say,last month.Screen caps dont cut it in the tech world.Not for this enthusiast,or this investor.

Again,ask yourself ?? Why would they not allow sys prop views,etc ? I hope beyond hope that they launch a succesful product,and make shareholders and enthusiasts all happy,
but clouding the issues like this do not help,they only hurt.


Edit: I agree with Caf,

Caffeinated,IF,Kubicki was really not at that event,then I agree,he's a fraud.He has yet to respond though,and the INQ article assumes all journos were at the event at the same time,and assuming usually gets you looking like a fool,and a tool.
 
Caffeinated said:
DailyTech = FAIL
Kristopher Kubecki = Day old turd

Here is what Anand said:

Link

" In the end, performance was absolutely terrible. We're beginning to understand why AMD didn't let us test Barcelona last month. It's not that AMD is waiting to surprise Intel; it's that the platform just isn't ready for production yet."

Was he even there, either? It didn't sound like people that were THERE felt that way. AMD has enough of a hard road without idiots like KK making things up. Shame on them!!!
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Well, if supposedly highly-regarded sites like Anand and DT are blasting AMD so severely without even being present at the demonstration, then the only prevailing industry conspiracy is the one wrongfully berating AMD. 'Tis truly sad we've come to this.
 
but clouding the issues like this do not help,they only hurt.
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you should have put "IMO" at the end of your statement.

I do agree that a lack of benchmarks is disappointing but it would be well to remember that this was not a "review" so much as a "reveal." We'll get benchmarks soon enough. From what I have seen the cpu's are supposed to ship in August so we should all be seeing performance reviews very shortly.
I think the funniest thing is that Inq was at the reveal whereas others were not. One must ask oneself "where were they?" Was it invitation only or did they just choose not to show? Perhaps it was invitation only and all the flamers and nay-sayers were not invited and got their panties in a wad over it and chose to post inflamatory and downright false statements. Who knows? You don't have to be on Intel's payroll to post negative things about AMD - just look at all the people who are doing it in the AMD forums! Fanboi-ism is rampant on both sides of the fence, as we keep seeing so clearly - it isn't just an AMD phenomenon (no pun intended). One's reasons for bashing AMD run the gamut from "disgruntled skt 939 users" to "dyed in the wool, never used anything but Intel and never will" zealots and everything in between.
The reporter said he was there - that should be good enough. Yes, there were no benches - get over it. They'll come. They played games on it and saw it running game demos. Its real and its up and running. I'm of the opinion that anyone with a problem is suffering from a bad case of "don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up" syndrome. Why spill the beans with benches? I think its kind of a sly idea on AMD's part to give a taste of what's coming. It seems to me that they know its a dangerous game to play. It would be foolish on their part to tease and then not deliver. If it sucks they'll be very sorry - but if it performs better than everyone expects they'll be sitting pretty. Either way, I feel there are going to be a lot of people crowing "I told you so." Let's just sit and wait and we'll all see what happens.
 
Manny Calavera said:
Although the fact that they would not let even Kyle take a gander at the system props does stink,of some sort of funny business.What do they have to hide ? I would like independant benchmarks,and think we have all waited long enough for them.! AMDati needs to release some very,very soon,like say,last month.Screen caps dont cut it in the tech world.Not for this enthusiast,or this investor.

Again,ask yourself ?? Why would they not allow sys prop views,etc ?
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I was going to reply to your similar point recently posted in the sticky thread which brings up the same questions. Whatever anyone's position is regarding AMD's recent two machine demonstration, Manny has an irrefutably legitimate concern, and everyone should be asking themselves the same questions.

I am on the side that accepts AMD's claims unconditionally, but I do ask myself that same question, and it's a very valid question indeed. Why didn't AMD permit any form of benchmarking? The only thing I can surmise is that AMD wishes to defer the 'Osbourne Effect' mentioned earlier in the thread from possibly ocurring in a very critical year for them. Every time a new generation of hardware/software is approaching release in the industry, the OE takes effect to a lesser or greater degree. We've all experienced it on the consumer side of the market. However, this year's fortunes have been anything but for AMD, and they cannot afford losing a single customer.

Other than that, the only alternate explanation I can come up with is preventing Intel from obtaining a better idea of AMD's technological state of affairs. This is a possibility, especially when one considers that Intel will soon release an important new core revision of their own. Either that or AMD is actually concerned about poor results, but the reported gameplay is near evidence enough to dispute such a hypothesis.
 
I'm hoping to add a quad core barcelona machine to with my current AM2 6000+ machine I have now. Thats IF its decent ;) :cool:
 
Manny Calavera said:
Edit: I agree with Caf,

Caffeinated,IF,Kubicki was really not at that event,then I agree,he's a fraud.He has yet to respond though,and the INQ article assumes all journos were at the event at the same time,and assuming usually gets you looking like a fool,and a tool.
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There are enough places around the web showing different pictures of the event, stating explicitly that they used the actual display PCs. The site we are on, [H], says that they used the PCs. Daily Tech/KK's article said that they were not allowed to take pictures and did not use the box. Who do you believe, the [H]'s Steve and his pictures along with the Inq and their pictures/article (not to mention OTHER sites with OTHER pictures), or Daily Tech and KK who say something completely different?

The Inq I would doubt had they not come right out and said it plainly - when they hint, speculate and insinuate, ;) (most of the time) I would not believe it. When someone comes out and explicitly states something, and other journalists/information (Steve here at [H] has pictures, so obviously they were allowed to take pictures, which proves another DT lie) corroborates that assertion, I'm going to go with the one with evidence. When there is evidence that Daily Tech lied (which there is, look on the front page of the [H] for Steve's pictures and his notes), is it assumption anymore?

I think not. KK/DT either was not there, was completely incapacitated at the event, told a lie or a combination of all three. OR, Steve didn't really take those pictures, Charlie didn't really take the pictures he posted, and THEY are lying. Which I don't buy.

Something rotten is up with KK and DT or they are incompetent to the point of idiocy.
 
Yes indeed. Inquirer is bad not in the sense that they lie. They just post everything and alot of the stuff is inaccurate. However in this case they have substantial proof to back it up. I mean come on if AMD didnt want their systems touched and photographed how did Inq get a pick of the inside of the case. Also other pics Iv seen here on Hard and XS seem to verify Inq's claims.
 
Caffeinated said:
I think not. KK/DT either was not there, was completely incapacitated at the event, told a lie or a combination of all three. OR, Steve didn't really take those pictures, Charlie didn't really take the pictures he posted, and THEY are lying. Which I don't buy..
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Totally agree. I wanted to avoid the question of truthful reporting in the other thread, but since it surfaced, it really boils down to who you want to believe. Either the journalists and AMD are lying or they aren't. Either the berators are telling the truth or they are outright lying. I'm with the journalists, because there isn't a middle ground here.

The sole criticism that can possibly be levied against AMD was their adamant stance to make it a benchmark-free demonstration. But, it is their right to do so, irrespective of the desires of the press or consumers.

When we start questioning the field of jornalism so critically, the whole concept of the 4th Estate as a check to higher powers comes to question. Be careful.
 
APOLLO said:
When we start questioning the field of jornalism so critically, the whole concept of the 4th Estate as a check to higher powers comes to question. Be careful.
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Why shouldn't we question journalists? They certainly aren't free of bias (Foxy News being a great example). I thought as a model citizen we should question EVERYTHING, not just take it by a silver spoon: "Yes sir, thank you sir."
In the end you really can only trust yourself...and to end this post:

Isn't it with a certain irony that DT had an article a month ago about online websites/journalists being bought for hard cash? And now KK comes out with his blatant FUD. The irony is more than delicious in this case.
 
I love it...

When the Inq promotes Intel and bashes AMD it is true, when it promotes AMD and bashes Intel it is false... wow!
 
APOLLO said:
When we start questioning the field of jornalism so critically, the whole concept of the 4th Estate as a check to higher powers comes to question. Be careful.
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Dear God, where do I start with that statement?

To anyone that is NOT currently critically examining and questioning journalism, and who currently IS holding the 4th Estate, I say be careful. If you currently live in the USA and do NOT question what you see on the nightly news, you are in for a real shock. I'm not going any further with that train of thought, though, because that is a topic best kept elsewhere, so I will contain the rest of my reply to deal directly with the topic at hand. :eek:

This is hardly the first time a website/web journalist has been caught lying or spreading FUD.

Anyway, beyond that, no we have no benchmarks. It is frustrating, and it is more hurry up and wait for AMD to release something. From what I have gathered, though, the impression was generally favorable. The problem, of course, comes in with the question of will it be favorable when released? AMD/ATI doesn't have a good track record with releases. Personally I believe that they have a good product - right now. I'm much more interested in knowing if they are planning on releasing it some time this decade or not. I would hope that we would have gotten further information on that (and an idea of pricing, too, but that is really getting the cart before the horse if there is nothing to sell).

I AM greatly annoyed, though, with FUD campaigns no matter what or who they are aimed at. AMD can generate fear and uncertainty all by themselves (as in uncertain when it will be released and fear it might not be soon) - they don't need "journalists" that weren't even at the event doing it for them.
 
its now August here in Asia. let's just wait for the benchies a few weeks from now
 
Manny Calavera said:
So I take it Anand is on Intels marketing payroll as well ? :)

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2986&p=7




The INQ is a pariah,mostly always has been one,but the second it claims to support AMD fans views,(or I should really say,their hopes and dreams),its the second coming ?

Something is not right here.

I never claimed the chip was not running at 3Ghz,others on this forum did.

Although the fact that they would not let even Kyle take a gander at the system props does stink,of some sort of funny business.What do they have to hide ? I would like independant benchmarks,and think we have all waited long enough for them.! AMDati needs to release some very,very soon,like say,last month.Screen caps dont cut it in the tech world.Not for this enthusiast,or this investor.

Again,ask yourself ?? Why would they not allow sys prop views,etc ? I hope beyond hope that they launch a succesful product,and make shareholders and enthusiasts all happy,
but clouding the issues like this do not help,they only hurt.


Edit: I agree with Caf,

Caffeinated,IF,Kubicki was really not at that event,then I agree,he's a fraud.He has yet to respond though,and the INQ article assumes all journos were at the event at the same time,and assuming usually gets you looking like a fool,and a tool.
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i couldn't agree more... i guess i was somewhat sketchy and opinionated on my previous post about Inq.... its just that they have been proven to be flawed in their reports and as far as im concerned id rather not count the times when they would post crap about something that was so libel that they made complete asses of themselves...

until i see a new AMD CPU on hte market, the one thing i won't waste my energy on is pre-production hardware....
 
IF,Kubicki was really not at that event,then I agree,he's a fraud.He has yet to respond though
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If he was not at the event do you really think for one minute that he would admit it after what the Inq reporter stated? He'd be admitting that he is a fraud - something I highly doubt he would do. No, he'd be doing exactly what he's doing now - keeping mum and hoping that in a few month's time no one will remember this little episode.

As for the Inq - they may not have the best reputation around but their man was there and it seems those who are trashing the event were not. I think that in this case they can be trusted to be telling the truth. A personal eye-witness account carries more weight with me than flame-boy wanna be juornos who weren't there. Facts are facts no matter who reports them.
Fact:
1. The Inq was present in person with a reporter at the event.
2. Pictures were allowed.
3. Properties were visible showing the speed of the system - 3.0 ghz
4. The attendees were allowed physical access to the machines.
5. Both systems were running intensive games.
6. The cpu's were selected but not intensively "cherry picked."

True - there were no benches, but as I stated before, the intent was not to review the systems - merely to reveal them. This is known as a "tease" - to whet the appetite of the target audience. Its a dangerous game, but evidently AMD is confident enough in their product to take the risks associated with this tactic. All we can do is wait and see if they are right.
 
BigMacAttack said:
If he was not at the event do you really think for one minute that he would admit it after what the Inq reporter stated? He'd be admitting that he is a fraud - something I highly doubt he would do. No, he'd be doing exactly what he's doing now - keeping mum and hoping that in a few month's time no one will remember this little episode
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Ahaha, KK's transgressions will be remembered for a long time. And it's not like he was "drunk and blurted it out". He made a conscious decision to be a total ass and knowingly spread FUD. DailyTech's honesty and integrity will remain in question for years.

And to make matters worse - infamous Intel shrill George Ou took KK's statements as fact in his latest blog entry:

Ou's blog said:
There were questions raised because the initial photograph that made the rounds over the Tech news sites were identical and I was told that it was a “canned” photo sent out to various journalists the day before the analyst meeting with an NDA release date of noon the next day during the Analyst meeting.
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Gee, and I suppose he didn't even question his source for that information? *slaps forehead* Silly me, KK is in the same camp as Ou. Of course he would never question KK's information.

And the funniest part of it all - again reaffirming my friend's confession (as an Intel intern) about Intel's utter disdain for the Inq:
Ou's blog said:
I have a hard time agreeing with Demerjian’s conclusion that the folks at Intel where having “heart attacks” over this news given the roadmaps of the two companies.
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Only an Intel fanboy would even bother mentioning the line about "heart attacks" at the end of Inq's narrative.
 
Lou Ceifer said:
I've already been well versed on about it here and on various other forums(particularly when Intel was doing the "yard sale" for their warehouse full of what some termed "obsolete" P4 wares right before C2D's release last year for example) but thanks for assuming anyway! :rolleyes:
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Oops, my bad I must have read that completely wrong. Thanks for the clarification
 
To again quote the article:
That brings us to the speeds, a matter of much speculation. Let me end it. Both boxes were reporting 3.0Ghz and four cores through Windows MeII and the BIOS. If there is a way to fake Me II (Vistula) reading the speeds, I don't know the trick. In any case, it would be pretty hard to run CoJ and Stranglehold smoothly at high rez with low clocked CPUs.
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You are too much Manny. As you've no doubt read in my previous posts this was not a review - it was a reveal. If AMD wants to keep that stuff secret that's their business. Like I said - its a dangerous game but they seem confident in their product. Until the reviews come in you'll just have to be satisfied with what they are giving. If not - I don't know what to tell you. He saw what he saw in the bios and elsewhere. Seems to me it would be quite easy to manipulate a screenshot of the System Properties. If they had done that there would be people screaming that it was modified in Photoshop. Honestly, AMD couldn't win with some of you if it gave you everything you wanted. You'd still find some reason to cry foul. Why keep beating a dead horse? They didn't give it out and aren't going to - until they release it - which shouldn't be too much longer. Just get over it and move on.
 
Mav451 said:
Ahaha, KK's transgressions will be remembered for a long time. And it's not like he was "drunk and blurted it out". He made a conscious decision to be a total ass and knowingly spread FUD. DailyTech's honesty and integrity will remain in question for years.

And to make matters worse - infamous Intel shrill George Ou took KK's statements as fact in his latest blog entry:



Gee, and I suppose he didn't even question his source for that information? *slaps forehead* Silly me, KK is in the same camp as Ou. Of course he would never question KK's information.

And the funniest part of it all - again reaffirming my friend's confession (as an Intel intern) about Intel's utter disdain for the Inq:


Only an Intel fanboy would even bother mentioning the line about "heart attacks" at the end of Inq's narrative.
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lol, well, he could've been drunk but it definitely still hurts his reputation. I was suspicious of the AMD demo machines after KK's post but it is clear he didn't have any idea what he was talking about. I'm still surprised no other editor like Anand himself or Steve have contradicted. It's rare to see a site get corrected by the Inq.
 
I think the main reason that it was the Inq doing it is because Charlie is a member at Ace's Hardware. The controversy started on Ace's forum, and there were people claiming the same things - that no pictures were allowed, they were fakes, etc. and then Charlie piped up and mentioned that not only was he there when they took the pictures, the guy borrowed his camera to do it. People brought up meta data and all kinds of BS, he then pointed out that the meta data showed it was taken at 8:15 PST, etc.
All of the same doubts, speculation of how it was rigged, etc., and some even more far fetched than what was said here was brought up in that thread, and several people, including Charlie, refuted it. Charlie also stated that he knew wattage numbers and other information that he was not able to share.

The bottom line is that these guys are under NDA. They can't just blab everything you would like to know because they will get sued. EVERYONE signs an NDA when they look at pre-release hardware - this is nothing new. People sat with G80s and R600s for weeks knowing clock speed, wattage, benchmarks - everything - and could not say a word until the embargo was lifted. It isn't just about protecting themselves against direct competitors (AMD vs. Intel, ATI vs. Nvidia) it also is to protect motherboard manufacturers, OEMs, and everybody else.

Much of this "debate" only serves the naive that have no idea how the industry works, and it serves the purpose of creating doubt. While it would be nice to have benchmarks, et. al, as soon as the embargo lifts we will know everything. No one knew how much the R600 sucked (though there were certainly hints that were stringently disregarded by fans for months) until the benchmarks came out, and really it doesn't suck that bad by now (though I wouldn't own one). There are hints that Barcelona performs well - the barometers are there, and there are plenty of hints that it doesn't suck. BUT no one knows until they ship.
 
Caffeinated said:
There are hints that Barcelona performs well - the barometers are there, and there are plenty of hints that it doesn't suck..
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Yes, I also doubt it will be a poor performer unless AMD only releases a very low clockrate for their initial batches of chips. This isn't Tualatin>Netburst, or the HD2900 (which is steadily improving), it's a refined K8 with double the number of cores and L3 cache. How bad can it be?
 
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