Water cooling over hyped ?

I feel the same way even after assembling my machine. Too much money spent for not enough gain I guess.
 
I disagree completely.

A quad core with an 8800GTS all at less than 25 dba? Silence *is* golden.

But then again, they were only talking about some of the lesser prebuilt systems.
 

"We asked when we started this review "Is water better?". The clear answer is NO, after comparing the Corsair Nautilus 500 and Swiftech H2O-120 Compact to the top air coolers."

"Water cooling comes close to top air performance in current designs but it did not outperform top air cooling in any test results."

"Air is also much quieter than these water kits. "

Actually I agree with the review. But they are comparing cheap wc kits to high end air cooling - under these circumstances, water isn't worth it. I started off with Swiftech H2O-120 premium and it wasn't worth it.

The correct and fairer comparison is between high end air and high end water. A properly built high end watercooling system will blow away high end air for performance and quietness.
 
Forget pre-built water cooling units.. you can make a home made water cooling setup for way cheaper than the high end kits sell for.. and if you do it right, it will perform a lot better also.

Back in the day when I was water cooling my Socket-7 system and then later on my early Socket-A system, I made a complete water cooing setup for about $20... all I buoght was hose and connectors. The rest was made from "junk" and fish tank accesories.

Resevior/pump - 350gph fish tank filter - free from Petsmart

Radiator - heater core from the wrecking yard $10-$15

Fans.... Some huge fans I pulled out of 80286 power supplies

Water block - piece of aluminum that was perfect that I pulled from the junk pile.

Sure it wasn't pretty.. but it worked very very well... for cheaper than a high end air cooler would cost.
 
cyclone3d said:
Forget pre-built water cooling units.. you can make a home made water cooling setup for way cheaper than the high end kits sell for.. and if you do it right, it will perform a lot better also.

Back in the day when I was water cooling my Socket-7 system and then later on my early Socket-A system, I made a complete water cooing setup for about $20... all I buoght was hose and connectors. The rest was made from "junk" and fish tank accesories.

Resevior/pump - 350gph fish tank filter - free from Petsmart

Radiator - heater core from the wrecking yard $10-$15

Fans.... Some huge fans I pulled out of 80286 power supplies

Water block - piece of aluminum that was perfect that I pulled from the junk pile.

Sure it wasn't pretty.. but it worked very very well... for cheaper than a high end air cooler would cost.
Click to expand...


While I doubt the waterblock... A really cheap pond pump, a heatercore, some 3$ yate loon fans and some masterkleer tubing will only run you back around 50$. A great waterblock (Dtek Fuzion) is another 50 or so (less used). It'll own any prebuilt kit, and anything that "anandtech" reviewed.
 
I just think it's a pain in the ass.... that's my biggest problem with it.

If your in it for the "wow" factor, cool.. to each his own, but a well built air cooled system will, for the most part, perform close to as well as a water cooled rig and you don't have to deal with all the bullshit involved with water cooling..

Just my opinion...that's all....
 
air cooling did get a lot better in past few yrs
that's what this article is mainly about
 
This article is so full of crap its not even funny. This guy's methodology is terrible and his bias for air cooling is so evident. Far cry as his "load" test?! Wow talk about pushing heat load!

There are plenty of other reviews out there of sub $300 kits that post better temps than 90% of the air setups out there. Anyhow, one thing is for sure, Anandtech can be trusted for Motherboard/RAM/CPU reviews/articles but there's no way in hell I'd trust them for cooling articles.
 
Arcygenical said:
I disagree completely.

A quad core with an 8800GTS all at less than 25 dba? Silence *is* golden.
Click to expand...

Exactly and why I do watercool. If you want increased results in overclocking, water has much less value per mhz overclocked. Silence, water is second to none.

Ranker said:
This article is so full of crap its not even funny. This guy's methodology is terrible and his bias for air cooling is so evident. Far cry as his "load" test?! Wow talk about pushing heat load!

There are plenty of other reviews out there of sub $300 kits that post better temps than 90% of the air setups out there. Anyhow, one thing is for sure, Anandtech can be trusted for Motherboard/RAM/CPU reviews/articles but there's no way in hell I'd trust them for cooling articles.
Click to expand...

Except Anand is more interested in overclocking results, which water has very little, if any advantage.

The article has some very valid points and some not so valid ones but doesn't go out on a limb; nothing anyone who has watercooled for awhile hasn't already figured out.
 
Anand tech has always been biased ,leaning towards air . You want max OC custom water loop. thats my two cents .
 
1. anandtech is biased
2. anybody that knows anything will say to start with 2x 120mm rad
3. many solutions under 300 can beat air cooling by a good margin

it's BS across the board.
 
Come one... One 'semi-biased' review and people are ready to debunk watercooling - you've got to be kidding me.

We ALL know damn well a solid, well-built watercooling setup will take it to a high end aircooled system. Period. In silence AND overclocking. On the other hand, you can't just simply 'throw together' a watercooled system and expect it to perform out of this world. In that case you might as well go with air, simply for ease of use/setup.
 
I already posted some of my thoughts in the Overclocking and Cooling thread, but the main problem I see is this:
Only two HSFs could make it to 3.96GHz on their test bed. Yet one of them, the Monsoon Lite II, was hotter than 2 other HSFs (that didn't "make it" to 3.96) by several *C at 3.90GHz. And they want to try and accurately measure the OCing ability of each cooler they test...
 
I had no idea that my quad core could be doing 3.9ghz on air. I guess I better return my thermochill pa120.3 and D Tek fuzion for a Monsoon lite :rolleyes: .
 
According to VR-zone

http://sg.vr-zone.com/articles/Swiftech_H20-120_Compact_Water-Cooling_Kit/5142-5.html

the swiftech did much better then the infinity with a margin of 20-27C. While the anandtech article says that the margin is only a few degrees. Is it that the more heat the better watercooling margin grows? So that for dual air is better, but quad water is better?

I wish hardocp could do a definitive test. Also try adding another 120 mm rad on the swiftech or nautilius WC system.
 
Yeah, its been said.

Swiftech triple + 3 yates = quiet, awsome cooling. Yes it is expensive but if you understand the law of deminishing returns, you cant call watercooling either a waste of money or a great buy.
 
I want to see air cooling keep a Q6600 at about 60C in 85F ambient temps. Hell, I want to see it done without throttling. Cheapo water cooling is probably always going to lose to high end air from here on out. This isn't new. When air cooling can beat a true custom or piece-together kit, I'll read.
 
lee0539 said:
According to VR-zone

http://sg.vr-zone.com/articles/Swiftech_H20-120_Compact_Water-Cooling_Kit/5142-5.html

the swiftech did much better then the infinity with a margin of 20-27C. While the anandtech article says that the margin is only a few degrees. Is it that the more heat the better watercooling margin grows? So that for dual air is better, but quad water is better?

I wish hardocp could do a definitive test. Also try adding another 120 mm rad on the swiftech or nautilius WC system.
Click to expand...

From my experiences, the answer is yes: the more heat, the better watercooling's edge on air becomes. Many other forums, including avid Air enthusiasts have shot down these results. Cmon, one can't get a C2D to perform better than air when other sites have shown Quads that have been better results?

Just read his article and you can see the blatant bias.

For maximum OC, one goes LN2 or phase. However, water is the best bang for your buck in terms of OC gains, usage costs (my former TEC setup added $150 a month to my electricity bill), and silence.

High end air can come within 80% of a decked out water cooling system, but then again, don't expect to have much hearing.
 
Ranker said:
From my experiences, the answer is yes: the more heat, the better watercooling's edge on air becomes. Many other forums, including avid Air enthusiasts have shot down these results. Cmon, one can't get a C2D to perform better than air when other sites have shown Quads that have been better results?

Just read his article and you can see the blatant bias.

For maximum OC, one goes LN2 or phase. However, water is the best bang for your buck in terms of OC gains, usage costs (my former TEC setup added $150 a month to my electricity bill), and silence.

High end air can come within 80% of a decked out water cooling system, but then again, don't expect to have much hearing.
Click to expand...

well for me conceptually I'm thinking heatpipes do a better job dissipating a decent amount of heat faster then water which gives ultra extreme an edge when it comes to duals which don't output as much heat as a quad. However, when it comes to quads, the heat overloads the heatpipes oil inside and ends up going back and forth much faster and in turn over several hours of proper CPU load the heat ends up bottling up and just continues to get hot. However, water has much more capacity therefore under long loads it is able to keep maintaining a decent and consistent flow to the radiator and properly dissipate the heat.

Well that's my theory anyway, I'm sure what I think may not really fit reality.
 
First of all, if any one say water cooling is silent with 8 x 120mm fans on the Triple 120.3 radiators or 3 fans on even one 120.3 radiator and plus overclock your Quadcore around 3.5 ghz. I don;t believe them.

I have Three Rads in my system, and overclocked Q6600 @ 4.1ghz, i mean i have to run all fans with full speed to keep temperature @ 50C under load all the time. It is not that quite as i wanted it to be. On the other hand the cost is $500 or more for my setup.

Lets compare it with Thermalrights Air Cooler the TOP of the line will cost us $70 the most, and that sucker with 2 x 120mm fan can keep Q6600 @ 3.5 (lets say) with even the same fans @ full speed would generate less noise then i believe. It is simple 2 < 8, and the price difference of over $400, what do you guys say ?

Not to mention the cost of electric city in these days. I have 2 pumps in my system, both will use 50 W of electric city and you can calculate the cost of that too. Also you need 800 watts PSU, which will cost $129 at lease from CompUsa.

So the base line is you can keep adding money to keep your water cooling, which i agrees looks cool, but cost + maintainence i begining to think it is not worth it any more. I left the Air cooling 4 years ago, and i am begining to think about it again.
 
annaconda said:
First of all, if any one say water cooling is silent with 8 x 120mm fans on the Triple 120.3 radiators or 3 fans on even one 120.3 radiator and plus overclock your Quadcore around 3.5 ghz. I don;t believe them.

I have Three Rads in my system, and overclocked Q6600 @ 4.1ghz, i mean i have to run all fans with full speed to keep temperature @ 50C under load all the time. It is not that quite as i wanted it to be. On the other hand the cost is $500 or more for my setup.

Lets compare it with Thermalrights Air Cooler the TOP of the line will cost us $70 the most, and that sucker with 2 x 120mm fan can keep Q6600 @ 3.5 (lets say) with even the same fans @ full speed would generate less noise then i believe. It is simple 2 < 8, and the price difference of over $400, what do you guys say ?

So the base line is you can keep adding money to keep your water cooling, which i agrees looks cool, but cost + maintainence i begining to think it is not worth it any more. I left the Air cooling 4 years ago, and i am begining to think about it again.
Click to expand...

I really don't get your system Annaconda. My 8800GTS and Q6600 are all cooled by a triple BIP Xflow radiator with 3 yate loon fans at 7v, and a single BIX with a single yate loon at 5v. I load around 55c with 4 instances of prime 95. You're welcome to pics of my setup if you don't believe me... I've even got a worklog around here somewhere.

What pumps do you have that require 50w?
 
Arcygenical said:
I really don't get your system Annaconda. My 8800GTS and Q6600 are all cooled by a triple BIP Xflow radiator with 3 yate loon fans at 7v, and a single BIX with a single yate loon at 5v. I load around 55c with 4 instances of prime 95. You're welcome to pics of my setup if you don't believe me... I've even got a worklog around here somewhere.

What pumps do you have that require 50w?
Click to expand...

I am using MCP655 + Thermaltake's 400liter Pump. MCP655 rated for 34 watts underload, and i believe Thermaltake's will use 16 watts at least too. What is your Overclock, i can run my system Passive @ 3.4ghz Quad Core. I also have thread in Water cooling you can search it. But then again what is your overclock ?
 
I have to echo the silence argument for H2O. A month ago I was on high ends are...Zalman 9700, 3 120 mm case fans at full voltage, some kind of clip on memory fan.(The ones with the disco lights..cant remember the name...), aftermarket active northbridge air/heatsink, southbridge heatsink/fan, the 8800 gtx had stock cooling but I drilled a hole in my case so a 120mm silentcat was feeding it cool air.

Damned system sounded like some some slightly more bass version of a dentist drill...it would make my wife up in the next room...

In the past I have built water systems that were almost as loud with not even as much cooling potential, (To be fail I am no expert),...in come the Zalamn Reserator XT....sexy, easy to set up, expensive as hell...my oc is identicle to high end air..no gain no loss...
BUT
MUCH Quieter, I only really notice it when the house is dead quiet like 6am...oc as below stable now for over a week....load temps for the cores @ 60c max load, cpu obviosly less, 8800 now on water oc stable at 625/1000, @ 51-55c, not sure how high this could have been on air...never tried.

So speed is silver but silence is golden.
 
Arcygenical said:
While I doubt the waterblock... A really cheap pond pump, a heatercore, some 3$ yate loon fans and some masterkleer tubing will only run you back around 50$. A great waterblock (Dtek Fuzion) is another 50 or so (less used). It'll own any prebuilt kit, and anything that "anandtech" reviewed.
Click to expand...

Hehe... the waterblock I made had to have a lot done to it to actually make it into a waterblock... I spent about 2 days on it alone.

The pump/reseviour that I was using is a fish tank filter... not a pond pump... still sells for well over $100.. but I got it for free since a customer returned it and we either had to throw it out or give it away.. it got given to me :)

The reseviour held close to 1 gallon since I wasn't using the filter material.

As for the tubing.. why buy special tubing? It won't last any longer than the clear tubing you can get at the hardware store, which is what I used besides the tubing that came with the free filter.

It was a pretty high end system for back then.. and if the waterblock was changed, and another heater core was added, it would spank most water cooling systems out there.
 
Bah, The masterkleer tubing is actually about the same price as the cheap vinyl stuff near me.

And since you already need some yate-loon fans for 3$, might as well throw in 10ft of MK tubing for around 4$. ;)
 
annaconda said:
I am using MCP655 + Thermaltake's 400liter Pump. MCP655 rated for 34 watts underload, and i believe Thermaltake's will use 16 watts at least too. What is your Overclock, i can run my system Passive @ 3.4ghz Quad Core. I also have thread in Water cooling you can search it. But then again what is your overclock ?
Click to expand...

The MCP655 is rated for 2A off of the 12v line, or 24w nominal according to swiftech's webpage. Run it at "3" and the power requirement is closer to 14w without a noticible decrease in performance.

Running Passive has nothing to do with it. You stated that 8 120mm fans arn't quiet. I only replied that I require 4 fans at an average of 55% of their normal speed to hit 3.5ghz 1.5v.

And I saw your thread :)
 
I've got some awesome air cooling hardware and it doesn't even come close to getting me the same results as I get from my water cooling setup. The gains were slight on the CPU side of things, but huge when it came to my video card cooling.

Also the ambient temperature in the room is much improved with the switch to water cooling.
 
Dan_D said:
I've got some awesome air cooling hardware and it doesn't even come close to getting me the same results as I get from my water cooling setup. The gains were slight on the CPU side of things, but huge when it came to my video card cooling.

Also the ambient temperature in the room is much improved with the switch to water cooling.
Click to expand...

This doesn't make any sense. If your water cooling system requires the same or more power than your air setup did, and if you're keeping things clocked at the same or higher frequencies, and if the water cooling system dissipates heat into the room better than the air, then the room temperature should be higher.
 
Although true his statement doesn't make sense, neither does yours. The amount of processor heat dissipated into the air would be same regardless of cooling. It's just that water cooling is able to dissipate this heat energy at a lower temperature. The air temperature would be the same...
 
It depends, if you look at anacondas system, running a Q6600 at 4.1 ghz at 50C is damn impressive. So, if you wanted the best cooling without going through the hassle of phase change, and you want great overclocks, water is the way to go, but, if you are going to be running this system as your main PC, then it is a bad choice, bad value etc. Overall, it isn't worth it, but it looks damn cool, and works damn well.
 
Wait, why is it bad if you run it as your main system? I've been running the same watercooling system with my main system for a year and a half now (24/7/365).
 
I have not posted in quite some time, sorry I have been busy. Some do H2O for silence, some do for performance and some do it for looks. I do it for it for all three of the above.
I love the way my AC gear looks (no flames please) and for me it gives me what I want performance wise as well. Nothing in my rig overheats and it is quiet, at least to me.
My QX6700 runs at 3.4 constantly 24/7 and performs nicely at 3.6 when it is required to do so! H2O cooling is fun from my perspective and if I ever get the time I will jump into phase-change just for kicks. Just my 2 cents.
 
I'm sorry, but when the stock cooler on most video cards sounds like a demon vacuum cleaner, there's no friggin comparison with water.

Between the fans from the cpu, the video card, and the chipset, going to 6 potted yates on a swifty 320 was like putting on noise cancelling headphones.
 
mwarps said:
I'm sorry, but when the stock cooler on most video cards sounds like a demon vacuum cleaner, there's no friggin comparison with water.

Between the fans from the cpu, the video card, and the chipset, going to 6 potted yates on a swifty 320 was like putting on noise cancelling headphones.
Click to expand...


Exactly.

Even with 2 radiators the loudest thing in my PC is the HDD's.

I air cool my file server but that sucker is stashed in a closet and has delta screamers.
 
cheezer said:
This doesn't make any sense. If your water cooling system requires the same or more power than your air setup did, and if you're keeping things clocked at the same or higher frequencies, and if the water cooling system dissipates heat into the room better than the air, then the room temperature should be higher.
Click to expand...

Where did I say anything about power? At the same frequencies, the system runs cooler. I'm able to get a higher overclock out of my CPU, but no voltage increases were made.

CoW]8(0);1031443884 said:
Although true his statement doesn't make sense, neither does yours. The amount of processor heat dissipated into the air would be same regardless of cooling. It's just that water cooling is able to dissipate this heat energy at a lower temperature. The air temperature would be the same...
Click to expand...

Allow me to clarrify on the point about temperature. The temperatures near the machine feel lower. This could be due to the fact that there aren't as many high speed fans blowing hot air out of the system into the room. So while the ambient temperatures in the room are no different, near the machine the air feels different. In any case the bennefits are clear to me. The ambient temperatures of the room are somewhat higher than I'd like and the water cooling has enabled me to reach higher clock speeds and maintain stability. Furthermore the temperature decrease was huge on the video cards and that amounted to very large increases in my overclocking results in regard to the video cards.
 
Ever since i replaced my socket A and 939 systems with core 2 duo i haven't had any need for water, they run too cool. My 6320 system for instance runs at 2.8ghz with stock vcore at 22*c idle with an ocz vindicator. Its nearly silent and costs 45 bucks. Until i get a quad core system i cant see spending 2 to 3 hundred dollars on a decent water loop.
 
digital_exhaust said:
If your in it for the "wow" factor, cool.. to each his own, but a well built air cooled system will, for the most part, perform close to as well as a water cooled rig and you don't have to deal with all the bullshit involved with water cooling..
Click to expand...
There really isn't that much involved if you plan things well. You'll always want some sort of drain system (a simple T-line with a fill port works well for this purpose), as coolant will need to be changed on some sort of regular basis (for me, it was monthly). Radiator fins tend to get clogged up very quickly, which means dismounting and blasting the radiator with compressed air every six months or so. Pump redundancy is something of an issue, but I've always been a multi-pump kind of guy, so I don't concern myself with pump failure. The only other real catch is making modifications. Water block mounting is still fairly tricky and time-consuming compared with most HSFs, and using compounds with lengthy curing times like Arctic Silver make thinking about removing the water block very unsettling. With a good non-curing compound, and a good 'feel' for block mounting, having to remove it isn't that much of a headache.

annaconda said:
Also you need 800 watts PSU, which will cost $129 at lease from CompUsa.
Click to expand...
Hardly. I'd like to see what data you have that suggests an 800 watt power supply is the minimum for a water cooled system.
 
mwarps said:
I'm sorry, but when the stock cooler on most video cards sounds like a demon vacuum cleaner, there's no friggin comparison with water.

Between the fans from the cpu, the video card, and the chipset, going to 6 potted yates on a swifty 320 was like putting on noise cancelling headphones.
Click to expand...

Totally concur.
 
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