1080i HDTV downscaled to 480p on PS3

C

ClearM4

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
2,320
Well, I just found out both HDTVs are useless for the PS3. I have a 52" projection HDTV that is three years old and a 30" Philips CRT HDTV that is one year old. Both only do 1080i, so the PS3 downscale games to 480p on both of my HDTVs. How can Sony fuck up something like this.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746282p1.html
 
Might be something that they can fix with a firmware update. Luckily one of my HDTVs support every HD resolution except the elusive 1080P.
 
ClearM4 said:
Well, I just found out both HDTVs are useless for the PS3. I have a 52" projection HDTV that is three years old and a 30" Philips CRT HDTV that is one year old. Both only do 1080i, so the PS3 downscale games to 480p on both of my HDTVs. How can Sony fuck up something like this.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746282p1.html
Click to expand...

How can they do it? Because they're Sony, and Sony is all marketing. They have no clue what they're doing.
 
This is concerning to me. My TV supports 720p as well as 1080i but 1080i is native and I would have preferred to use 1080i...

Hopefully they clear this up with a firmware update...
 
jcll2002 said:
wow, "fuck that up" really is the way to put it...wow, way to fuck that up.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. That just seems stupid to me.
 
VoodooChi|d said:
This is concerning to me. My TV supports 720p as well as 1080i but 1080i is native and I would have preferred to use 1080i...

Hopefully they clear this up with a firmware update...
Click to expand...

Yah, 1080i is native for most CRT-based sets (a few can do actual multisyncing like PC monitors but they tend to be very expensive), and some can have cheap built-in scaling. Considering how late they finalized the PS3 for production, it seems weird that they'd go this direction with the 360 able to output 1080i full-time if the user chooses.
 
Obviously I'm a little biased, but my own theory is that this may have been intentional. Of all the HDTVs that Sony sells, none of their flat panels support 1080i. They sell lots of 720p and 1080p flat panels though. This could very well be a deliberate move on their part to sell more 720p and 1080p HDTVs, which is after all, a core business for Sony.
 
mista ting said:
720p > 1080i
Click to expand...
Holy crap, your post just drips with usefulness.

That said, some people prefer the increased resolution with interlacing rather than a lower progressive resolution (even though, IMO, 1280x720 is nowhere near a "low" resolution).

So with the lack of 1080i support, what? The PS3 just does 480i/480p/720p? I was about to say something about the PS3 perhaps being progressive in nature, but since it has 480i output too...hmmmm.
 
Tetrahedron said:
100% Agree p > i -- 1080i = 540 in reality
Click to expand...

Well, this topic is going the way of virtually all topics in this forum.

In the interest of truth, I'll still correct you. Given a static or [relatively] slow-moving image, a 1080i image does display a full 1080 lines of resolution with up to 1920 pixels per line.

For the record: A full 720p image is 1280x720 = 921,600 (I've always wondered if companies decided to go with 1366x768 for LCDs just to get over a million) pixels x 60 frames/second = 55,296,000 pixels per second. By comparison, a full 1080i image is 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels x 30 frames/second = 62,208,000 pixels per second - the fact that it's weaving two 60 fps fields together to make a full frame doesn't mean that it's losing resolution. Now, it is possible for interlacing to cause artifacts on a screen (mainly with smaller, fast-moving objects), but if there are those, they certainly haven't been noticeable to me either on my 57" 1080i display or my 27" display when playing the 360.

Personally, I wish that the industry had gone with 720p with a move later to 1080p, skipping 1080i altogether. The fact that they didn't, though, shouldn't get in the way of recognizing that there ARE advantages to 1080i.
 
I know a couple people who this will affect, but I'm not sure if they'll be getting a PS3 any time soon. Regardless I think this is total B.S. on Sony's part... mainly because when the Xbox 360 was released they came out and said "true high-def gaming" doesn't start until the PS3. They can't even get it right.

Hopefully a future update will fix this, but this still doesn't look good for them, at the moment, in my opinion.
 
The big question is whether or not this is a software or hardware issue. If it's software, sure, a patch'll do ya (and it's probably inevitable, if not immediate). If it's hardware, though...well, if I did have the urge and money for a PSgrill, I'd have to stick it in the bedroom (the Toshiba CRT in there can handle 720p, whereas the bigger Mitsubishi DLP in the living room can't--go figure).
 
Exactly what TV do you own OP? I've had a 1080i TV that didn't take 720p/1080i input via component.

I wonder if games are locked to a resolution? In the PS3 setup menu you can set the resolution of games independent of the resolution of the menu system. AND some resolutions are locked out depending on the output you choose (VGA, HDMI, Composite, Component).
 
Well im alright cos i got decent tvs!!! :D

On a serious note i feel for you lot that it affects, hopefully a firmware update will sort the "problem" out.
 
Rash said:
Well im alright cos i got decent tvs!!! :D

On a serious note i feel for you lot that it affects, hopefully a firmware update will sort the "problem" out.
Click to expand...

Oh crap, I guess my new Hitachi 55" 1080i plasma display is just decent. :rolleyes:
 
seems odd. probably a software update will fix it. if not...thats pretty much sucks.

Most of the hate posts in this thread would never buy a sony in the first place though...
 
I'm pretty positive a firmware update will adress this. I mean, the 360 was able to have an update to upscale to 1080p when it wasn't even supported before.
 
Scream And Fly said:
Oh crap, I guess my new Hitachi 55" 1080i plasma display is just decent. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Plasmas are progressive by nature...meaning your Plasma doesn't display 1080i directly. It may support it...but it won't display it.

Not to say that your Plasma is merely "decent", just an FYI, I guess.
 
We need more details on this, before I'll chime in with how pissed off I'll be.

Are they saying that if the TV isn't natively 720p, it will downscale... or are they saying if it won't accept a 720p signal the downscaling will occur.

There is a BIG difference between those two things. My 480p/1080i Sony XBR970 will accept a 720p signal, which it then upconverts to 1080i internally. In which case anyone in a similar situation will be just fine.

Redshirt #24: I don't know what kind of 720p CRT tube you have, but to my knowledge there hasn't ever been a native 720p CRT. And DLP's, well, those things debuted at 720p and either upconvert from 480p or downscale a 1080i signal to meet the native resolution of the chip. If you've got a 1080p Mitsu, well, then you're in the same boat as anyone else with a TV that accepts 720p but doesn't natively display it, and the TV will turn any signal into it's native resolution.. I'd like to hear which models you have on hand, because thats a weird scenario you have there.

As long as this is the latter situation, the only people who will really be screwed are going to be the early, early, adopters with Tube and CRT projo's.

I'd like to hear more technical details before I go apeshit.
 
Scream And Fly said:
I thought the PS3 supported 720P?
Click to expand...
It does. But what it seems like is older HDTV's are having some issue with 720p dropping to 480p when that option is set.
 
First adopters screwed again... both in terms of the PS3 and HDTV. When will you all learn? :(
 
Psychotext said:
First adopters screwed again... both in terms of the PS3 and HDTV. When will you all learn? :(
Click to expand...
That's just not true in this situation. CRT HDTVs are still being designed and sold today. They're cheaper, and the picture quality can sometimes be better than LCDs. There's absolutely no reason to penalize folks for having one, and that's pretty much what the PS3 does by forcing them to rely on the TV scaler to handle the 720p->1080i conversion - hello, audio-video lag!

Man, and I thought Microsoft screwed up not including 1440x900 and 1680x1050...
 
JethroXP said:
Obviously I'm a little biased, but my own theory is that this may have been intentional. Of all the HDTVs that Sony sells, none of their flat panels support 1080i. They sell lots of 720p and 1080p flat panels though. This could very well be a deliberate move on their part to sell more 720p and 1080p HDTVs, which is after all, a core business for Sony.
Click to expand...

Well, I own Sonys XBR970 which is 1080i native. And this set is still sold in stores to this day.

Not like I was going to get a PS3 anyways. What a joke.
 
erwos said:
...that's pretty much what the PS3 does by forcing them to rely on the TV scaler to handle the 720p->1080i conversion - hello, audio-video lag!
Click to expand...
That's the problem though isn't it... some of these screens can't upscale themselves and the PS3 wont do it for them thus you get 420p. I'm not arguing that early HDTVs are bad, far from it, just that I wish the industry wouldn't be so quick to crap on their most ardent supporters.
 
pigpen said:
not the issue.


issue: 1080i > 480p
Click to expand...
Oh that's plainly obvious.

I think Mr. Ting with his "720p > 1080i" flamebait was just advocating that people such as myself who happen to own 1080i native CRT HDTVs should simply buy a new (preferably Sony-branded) HDTV for use with the PS3 and stop bitching. I mean, 720p arguably looks better, sometimes. So that means that people who don't have 720p-capable HDTVs should go fuck themselves.

Ugh... lol, what a bunch of crap. For all the hype they gave the PS3, I at least expected it to support HDTV resolution scaling like every other freaking HD device on the market. I was actually toying with the idea of getting a PS3 (eventually), but this totally blows the deal for me.

I'll stick with my 360 thank you very much. It looks very nice on my 1080i TV. :p (and it was 200 bucks cheaper)
 
Babbster said:
Well, this topic is going the way of virtually all topics in this forum.

In the interest of truth, I'll still correct you. Given a static or [relatively] slow-moving image, a 1080i image does display a full 1080 lines of resolution with up to 1920 pixels per line.

For the record: A full 720p image is 1280x720 = 921,600 (I've always wondered if companies decided to go with 1366x768 for LCDs just to get over a million) pixels x 60 frames/second = 55,296,000 pixels per second. By comparison, a full 1080i image is 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels x 30 frames/second = 62,208,000 pixels per second - the fact that it's weaving two 60 fps fields together to make a full frame doesn't mean that it's losing resolution. Now, it is possible for interlacing to cause artifacts on a screen (mainly with smaller, fast-moving objects), but if there are those, they certainly haven't been noticeable to me either on my 57" 1080i display or my 27" display when playing the 360.

Personally, I wish that the industry had gone with 720p with a move later to 1080p, skipping 1080i altogether. The fact that they didn't, though, shouldn't get in the way of recognizing that there ARE advantages to 1080i.
Click to expand...

not to familiar with overscan are ya ;)

the reason for the extra pixel is that even HDTV signal has overscan on it.

as for 1080p

i can tell you in a DBT that no one, yes that is NO ONE will tell the differnce between 720p and 1080p on anything smaller than 56 inches while watching at a nominal distance of 1.5x the size of the screen (ie 56 x 1.5 = viewing distance). It has been proven. 1080p is nothing more than marketing hype and nothing else. Of course everyone swallows it like good consumers though.

As for PS3 and 480... and this is surprising how exactly? HDMI hasn't been finalized yet and you guys really thing Sony will release thier games or blu-ray outputing the fuill signal out anything but secure HDMI? You guys really do not get Sony at all.
 
Kahnvex said:
We need more details on this, before I'll chime in with how pissed off I'll be.
Click to expand...

This is how it works(or doesn't work, depending on your point of view)

720p game.

TV/display that cannot accept(take 720p and scale to 1080i) 720p or natively display 720p, the PS3 will NOT scale that 720p output to 1080i for you, it will scale it to 480p.

Only an issue on games that do 720p but not 1080i, and only with monitors that cannot accept and/or display 720p.
 
Babbster said:
Considering how late they finalized the PS3 for production, it seems weird that they'd go this direction with the 360 able to output 1080i full-time if the user chooses.
Click to expand...
I don't know, considering how late the PS3 was finalised I have to say I expect issues like this since Sony, at this point, just wants to get the thing out the door. Despite not having an HDTV locked at 1080i I'm hoping this, backwards incompatibility and DVD/PS1/2 upscaling issues are fixable via firmware update.
 
Interestingly enough, Sony's best-selling TV currently is the A2000. Which is a 1080p tv
 
Has Sony responded to this yet?



After searching through my manual it looks like I will be ok. :D
 
VoodooChi|d said:
Has Sony responded to this yet?



After searching through my manual it looks like I will be ok. :D
Click to expand...

like anyone will care... if the PS3 doesn't do it I can tell you the TV will do it for the PS3 (upscaler). So who will actually notice besides the technical folks that know it is hobbled right from the bat ;)
 
figgie said:
like anyone will care... if the PS3 doesn't do it I can tell you the TV will do it for the PS3 (upscaler). So who will actually notice besides the technical folks that know it is hobbled right from the bat ;)
Click to expand...
Although I don't think it affects that many TV's... I'm pretty sure it affects enough that Sony would at least respond... especially with all the press this has been getting...
 
Kahnvex said:
We need more details on this, before I'll chime in with how pissed off I'll be.

Are they saying that if the TV isn't natively 720p, it will downscale... or are they saying if it won't accept a 720p signal the downscaling will occur.

There is a BIG difference between those two things. My 480p/1080i Sony XBR970 will accept a 720p signal, which it then upconverts to 1080i internally. In which case anyone in a similar situation will be just fine.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I think we need more info and I think your logic is probably what is happening.
The PS3 can output 480p, 720p and 1080i and p. It will output whatever the game is coded at and allow the TV to work from there. This sounds like it could be fixed with a patch though.
And i dont think that many Tvs will actually be affected. Our older HDTv is 1080i native, but it also accepts 720p and i guess upscales it to 1080i by itself.
 
VoodooChi|d said:
Although I don't think it affects that many TV's... I'm pretty sure it affects enough that Sony would at least respond... especially with all the press this has been getting...
Click to expand...


ok again

if the tv is upscaling whatever signal you are sending to it to the native resolution (be it 720p, 1080i or 1080p) how exactly are people going to "know" when most folks don't mess with bypassing the scaler to have the input be the source for the display instead of the scaler ;)

They unbox, plug in, and ooh and ahh over hdtv right out of the box ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top