13" Black Macbook vs. XPSM1210 vs. Vaio TX

[0ptional]

Ahhh, im just not so sure of that because then people would be less inclined to purchase their computers... or is that just me?

Yeah, Apple has no plans to release OS X to the PC market anytime soon, they make their money on their hardware, and if people stop buying the hardware then where does the money to create this great OS come from?

 

[sin01]

I recently had a chance to play on the MB. my only real issue was this that it was bigger then i would expect a 13" to be, the case i mean, and when i closed it and held it in my arm, as i would when i would carry any laptop from one place to another semi-quickly, it didnt feel solid. I know that it is due to the hinge on the back, that becomes the entire back after you close it, but still, it felt less solid then i would like. I am sure that if dells or sony's had hinges that took up the entire back of their laptop, i would have issues there too, but they do not, and so i do not. Also the Sony's is so small i wouldn't care if it felt less solid since its much less to deal with as a whole. Comments guys??

 

[0ptional]

I recently had a chance to play on the MB. my only real issue was this that it was bigger then i would expect a 13" to be, the case i mean, and when i closed it and held it in my arm, as i would when i would carry any laptop from one place to another semi-quickly, it didnt feel solid. I know that it is due to the hinge on the back, that becomes the entire back after you close it, but still, it felt less solid then i would like. I am sure that if dells or sony's had hinges that took up the entire back of their laptop, i would have issues there too, but they do not, and so i do not. Also the Sony's is so small i wouldn't care if it felt less solid since its much less to deal with as a whole. Comments guys??

I've had no issues with my MacBook not being solid enough. I think its easier to open and has equal protection of the components as any other notebook. I personally like how it hinges back instead of up like other notebooks. It makes it so you won't over bend the screen. Again, that's your opinion.

Was that your only complaint? What else did you notice about it, anything you particularly liked, have you had the chance to see and feel the other notebooks as well?

 

[markt435]

what happened to the guy who said he did a voltage mod on the m1210? i wanna know how he did it lol

EDIT: eh i just googled it...pretty pointless unless you can change the clockspeed for the c2d.

 

[sin01]

I liked the keyboard on the Macbook, which is wierd because i tried it a few months ago and didnt like it. I liked the Screen size. I didn't however like the weight! =/
For the Vaio i think it is nice that it can connect wirelessly everywhere, but the kayboard definetly takes some getting used to , and the screen can feel a bit small at times. For its class though, the weight is great and the design is beautifull.
For the m1210 i dig the colors and the weight, thought its a tiny bit on the heavy side. I dont like that there is not a official latch or magnet lock on the lid, but it closes pretty firmly... still...
the keyboard, while being better then a lot of the other dells i have felt ( in the past, though their keybaords as a whole are improving) is not at the level of a thinkpad, and doesnt have the novelty of the Apple.

I feel like right now if the macbook was a little bit smaller , to fit its screen size, and a little bit less weight, then the Black Macbook would be perfect for me... but i really don't know at this point given i dont controll those aspects of manufacture haha.

What kind of feedback do you have to those?

 

[sin01]

bumperoo

 

[King_Weaver]

save yourself some money...GO FOR THE DELL!!

 

[0ptional]

I liked the keyboard on the Macbook, which is wierd because i tried it a few months ago and didnt like it. I liked the Screen size. I didn't however like the weight! =/
For the Vaio i think it is nice that it can connect wirelessly everywhere, but the kayboard definetly takes some getting used to , and the screen can feel a bit small at times. For its class though, the weight is great and the design is beautifull.
For the m1210 i dig the colors and the weight, thought its a tiny bit on the heavy side. I dont like that there is not a official latch or magnet lock on the lid, but it closes pretty firmly... still...
the keyboard, while being better then a lot of the other dells i have felt ( in the past, though their keybaords as a whole are improving) is not at the level of a thinkpad, and doesnt have the novelty of the Apple.

I feel like right now if the macbook was a little bit smaller , to fit its screen size, and a little bit less weight, then the Black Macbook would be perfect for me... but i really don't know at this point given i dont controll those aspects of manufacture haha.

What kind of feedback do you have to those?

Well those are your personal findings.

The size of the MacBook I think is one of it's strengths to me. The screen I thought was small initially, and it's thinness is great, also that it doesn't have any large extruding feet underneath for cooling purposes makes it fit a lot easier into my backpack.

I find the MacBook's to be the most accesible as they're all on one side of the laptop, it's better organized than many other notebooks that seem to just have USB ports on every side/corner randomly just to advertise "omg 16 usb ports!!!" The MacBook has 2, and I've never needed any more than that.

Your choice is what you will feel most comfortable using because that is what is the most important. I found the keyboard, screen, and form factor (case) to be big deciding factors for me since I knew I would be taking this everywhere.

It has enough weight to feel solid but has little enough to not feel heavy, and it's well organized and opens and closes easily and firmly with the magnet. The screen hinge is solid and doesn't seem to be letting up at all.

I actually dropped my MacBook twice in a few days time just for iunno, very off days because I wasn't feeling good and such and it doesn't have a scratch on it and I found it had gone to sleep while it was falling/fell and turned off the HDD instantly in the movement to prevent any damage. Of course I'm sure other notebooks do the same thing, although I have no experience here.

I can't officially comment on why Apple didn't make the MacBook's case smaller around the edges of the screen and such to save some space/weight; but my impression is that the reason my MacBook is unjolted after the fall is that reason. It provides better protection to the critical components and they deemed it a necesarry precaution to avoid repair costs to consumers in the event of an accident.

The Vaio has a Cell Phone internet style connection right? Does that require a provider at all? That sounds cool for road trips and such. I haven't had issues finding internet on my MacBook though because I'm at a college. But another random thing that comes to mind is that MacBooks don't come with a phone modem, if that bothers you at all.

That's what I can offer you right now as far as my thoughts

 

[six_storm]

save yourself some money...GO FOR THE DELL!!

And also get a POS laptop!

Seriously, Apple makes some great laptops no doubt. I've had my iBook for 1 and 1/2 years now, no problems, no shut downs, nothing. The new MBs are very sleek and sexy with their widescreen displays and thin profile. You can't go wrong with OSX unless you are a PC 1337 hardcore gamer who spoons Windows all night long lol. OSX is a wonderful OS that just (actually) works, nothing to it. I totally recommend spending the extra cash and getting something worth your time: MacBook.

 

[markt435]

lets see....i'll list the things i like about the m1210.

-solid build quality...doesn't feel cheap at all
-screen hinge is very strong, to the point i have to use two hands to open it cuz it slides on my desk if i try with one hand.
-if you get one of the truelife screens they look awesome
-the laptop keyboard doesn't get really hot under a load. this is a big key for me...the last "gaming" laptop i had was an inspiron 8200 with a geforce 4 go in it. when you played games on it, the keyboard would get sooooo warm it got pretty unbearable. as for the wrist rests...they don't get too bad either.
-speaking of gaming on it...i love how they packed soooo much into this laptop. the fact you have a pretty decent video card if you pick up the gf7400 option in such a small package is great. unless you're playin fear or some completely newer game, you're good to go at medium to high qual.
-usb ports on either side of the laptop
-the lid is also sturdy

there are plenty more things i like about it but thats what i can think of offhand. i could care less about how thick it is. what it does is what matters. its light as hell anyway so you just can't complain. anyway...thats my .02

 

[jedirye]

I myself was considering the M1210 because it was great for portability and supposedly good for gaming. Well, the latter was a little off but still I passed on that and have just purchased the Asus G1 off of Newegg (out of stock now). I think it's a great compromise between portability and gaming power. It's got a 15.4" screen and if that's too big for you, the Asus A8JS has a 14.1" screen with the same specs (Go 7700 512mb). Check it out!

-rye

 

[markt435]

And also get a POS laptop!

Seriously, Apple makes some great laptops no doubt. I've had my iBook for 1 and 1/2 years now, no problems, no shut downs, nothing. The new MBs are very sleek and sexy with their widescreen displays and thin profile. You can't go wrong with OSX unless you are a PC 1337 hardcore gamer who spoons Windows all night long lol. OSX is a wonderful OS that just (actually) works, nothing to it. I totally recommend spending the extra cash and getting something worth your time: MacBook.

bs...i've had 3 dell laptops. all have been great and have run forever. if you haven't noticed, the MBs have been having their share of problems. i dunno bout you but i don't like buying the first builds for those reasons. they've had to go back and fix things numerous times in the next builds. and i saw what happens to em after plenty of use...this being a black MB...looks like shit. if you get one it seems you need to clean em up to keep them looking good. never had to do that with my dells. maybe this person was eating all the time while they were using it i dunno. it just looked nasty.

 

[0ptional]

I myself was considering the M1210 because it was great for portability and supposedly good for gaming. Well, the latter was a little off but still I passed on that and have just purchased the Asus G1 off of Newegg (out of stock now). I think it's a great compromise between portability and gaming power. It's got a 15.4" screen and if that's too big for you, the Asus A8JS has a 14.1" screen with the same specs (Go 7700 512mb). Check it out!

-rye

the OP is mostly looking at more portable solutions so 15.4 seems to be outta the question but I agree the ASUS laptops are great, and another thing to note is that ASUS assembles the MacBooks so the build quality is pretty much the same.

 

[synergyo1]

The Dell M1210 is a very solid machine. It doesn't feel all that cheap to me. Way better than their Inspiron line.

 

[jedirye]

the OP is mostly looking at more portable solutions so 15.4 seems to be outta the question but I agree the ASUS laptops are great, and another thing to note is that ASUS assembles the MacBooks so the build quality is pretty much the same.

Hey, I mentioned a 14.1" screen. I was at a Dell kiosk in the mall and saw the M1210. WOW, those things are small...................

-rye

 

[King_Weaver]

And also get a POS laptop!

Seriously, Apple makes some great laptops no doubt. I've had my iBook for 1 and 1/2 years now, no problems, no shut downs, nothing. The new MBs are very sleek and sexy with their widescreen displays and thin profile. You can't go wrong with OSX unless you are a PC 1337 hardcore gamer who spoons Windows all night long lol. OSX is a wonderful OS that just (actually) works, nothing to it. I totally recommend spending the extra cash and getting something worth your time: MacBook.

yea i had a macbook...sold it and bought the dell you see in my sig...the dell is WAAY better quality. Macbooks are WAY overpriced for what you get...screw mac and their OS, i hate hearing how great OS X is...i worked a powersports store that only used macs in their office for almost a year...let me tell you, you cant do half of what you can do with windows. However the things you can do are made way to complicated by the OS. Also its a total myth about macs not freezing up...i will admit they dont have problems with the same frequency of a windows pc but when a mac does have a problem it becomes a show stopping, afternoon project to fix them. Put that on top of the lack of software...and you have a computer that is more of a hippies wet dream, a useless overpriced art piece, and a fashion statement, than an practical tool. Oh and why were on the subject of how bad apple is, let me also say that ipod's pretty much blow...creative makes a much better product (albeit not as pretty) for a better price... IF YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE then maybe you shouldnt have called my laptop a piece of shit

 

[dmanrevived]

I'm waiting for macworld to see if the rumoured 12" ultrathin macbook pro is real

 

[Scroatdog]

I'm waiting for macworld to see if the rumoured 12" ultrathin macbook pro is real

Ditto. I think it will be.

Hell, forget Christmas this year. Macworld is my new winter holiday!! LOL

I asked my family for Apple Store gift cards for Christmas. That, along with the student discount should get me into a Mac Pro quite easily. Also need to figure out what to replace these aging Dell 1900FP LCD's with. 24 and a 20.1 maybe..

 

[sin01]

i think they will make the 12" mac pro, it would fill in a gap in their line that has a big audience. I have read a lot of helpfull things today, these posts, i hope people keep posting their opinions and experience with all of these laptops, this is awsome.

 

[0ptional]

yea i had a macbook...sold it and bought the dell you see in my sig...the dell is WAAY better quality. Macbooks are WAY overpriced for what you get...screw mac and their OS, i hate hearing how great OS X is...i worked a powersports store that only used macs in their office for almost a year...let me tell you, you cant do half of what you can do with windows. However the things you can do are made way to complicated by the OS. Also its a total myth about macs not freezing up...i will admit they dont have problems with the same frequency of a windows pc but when a mac does have a problem it becomes a show stopping, afternoon project to fix them. Put that on top of the lack of software...and you have a computer that is more of a hippies wet dream, a useless overpriced art piece, and a fashion statement, than an practical tool. Oh and why were on the subject of how bad apple is, let me also say that ipod's pretty much blow...creative makes a much better product (albeit not as pretty) for a better price... IF YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE then maybe you shouldnt have called my laptop a piece of shit

I don't even want to touch why you hate Apple so much, but it just sounds to me like you didn't try too hard to find software. I've had no issues finding anything and I haven't even had to look very hard if at all. Apple has a huge software database on their own site, and a lot if not most of that software is completely free.

Also, you traded a MacBook, a portable machine notebook, for an E1705, a 17" Desktop Replacement. The reason you get more for your money in those machines is that they are bigger and can fit the higher powered components inside of them and are heavier and have less battery life.

My mom has a Dell laptop, my dad has a Dell laptop, and hell, so does my sister. I have an Alienware Area-51m from 2003 as well. I personally have a lot of experience with PC notebooks new and old and it is my opinion that Apple has a better product to offer than the PC makers have. I like style and using something that I like everyday, and I'm willing to spend a little extra to get what I want.

My sister's laptop has had nothing but problems and they got fixed but it took a month to get it back from Dell for a motherboard replacement. My mom's laptop is a loaner from the school and is a new Latitude 620 and is a nice machine, although the trackpad is very very small. My sister took my dad's 14.1" Dell to Spain with her while studying abroad for weight and size reasons so she definitely wouldn't have wanted a 17" like you use. Sometimes size and portability is a lot more useful to people than power, imagine that, portability in a notebook.

Besides that though my dad really likes my MacBook and OS X and is considering replacing his with a MacBook (which really means I'll get his Dell and sell it for 300-400$ and put it towards a PS3) and his own desktop with a Mac Mini because his get this, Dell desktop is bloated and slow. My mom's Dell desktop is even worse than his, I don't have time to work on their machines since I'm here at college, and they both have anti-spyware and anti-virus solutions that are updated automatically, but this was before the Dell-decrapifier software (yes, that's what it's called) was released and they have data on these machines that they can't lose, seeing how my dad is a doctor and my mom is a nurse.

And no, I'm not calling your notebook a POS like the other guy did, I'm just saying that given the choice, I would still pick my portable MacBook over that heavy, large E1705, even if for the same amount of money.

I find my MacBook invaluable to getting all my work done and it has software that no PC has been able to offer me, yes, I said software, something you said Mac's have an apparent lack for. I can say that is not the case. When finding programs to replace those that I use on my gaming PC (which gets little to no use now because of the MacBook), I found good programs to replace them that were often free or very very cheap and were generally better or at least easier to use with the same features as those on my PC.

It's really fast how this thread becomes a flame war between Mac vs. PC users and I'm here just giving my experiences with both sides being nice about PC's, of which I have been building and tweaking since the 7th grade. PC's have been my thing up until now, now I don't want to use a PC ever again, sadly though that can't happen as a CompSci major here at WWU, especially since I'm a programming student.

Yup. I get the feeling though that from the get-go you deep down didn't want to like the Mac. Something deep inside your PC loving nature made you biased and not try very hard from the get-go? I'm just guessing and I'd like a civilized answer to this please, not one in rebuttle to how I like Mac's and you like PC's ok? We're trying to help the OP decide between these notebooks and platforms and so far all I've seen is angry unhelpful people from the PC camp, I'm kind of sad there isn't more here from the M1210 or Vaio guys.

 

[King_Weaver]

Yup. I get the feeling though that from the get-go you deep down didn't want to like the Mac. Something deep inside your PC loving nature made you biased and not try very hard from the get-go? I'm just guessing and I'd like a civilized answer to this please, not one in rebuttle to how I like Mac's and you like PC's ok? We're trying to help the OP decide between these notebooks and platforms and so far all I've seen is angry unhelpful people from the PC camp, I'm kind of sad there isn't more here from the M1210 or Vaio guys.

Two reasons I hate macs, one their user base is extremely stuck up about how "if its not a mac its POS"...and two they are completely useless for almost everything but the most simple of daily tasks. Also having to work with them on a day to day basis for almost a year I can honestly say that im not just basing my opinion on biases...i LEARNED to generally hate the machine, from EXPERIENCE. Also back in the day (school computer lab) i worked on Imac G3's running OS 8.1 THEY WERE GREAT...but that was back when the only other option was windows 98 (not even windows 98 SE) which sucked balls. Now with windows 2000 pro, XP pro sp2, and XP MCE there is honestly no reason to use OS X other than "OMG ITS SOOOOO PRETTTY!!!" also you say youve never had a problem finding software for a mac...and that apple makes all you need. Try getting your industry standard inventory managing and register program running in an emulation program and try to get it to sync with your credit card processing server (which also had to run in emulation software) to work together....and then if your really really lucky 3 or 4 times a week it will actually be able to send out billing info. All because guess what...their is no mac version. again...i hate macs because i have learned to hate their uselessness.

 

[King_Weaver]

And no, I'm not calling your notebook a POS like the other guy did, I'm just saying that given the choice, I would still pick my portable MacBook over that heavy, large E1705, even if for the same amount of money.

you do have a point there, it is very portable...the reason i got the e1705 is because i found i wasnt taking it to classes as often as i thought i would so i got a more powerful less portable laptop....thats not to say however that dells offerings in the ultra portable arena arent just as good as their offerings in the desktop replacement category...dell makes a kickass machine for a kickass price. The only complaint i have is with the bloatware they install....that of course can be remedied in about 20min using the "Dell decrappifier". But then again the bloatware is also one of the reasons of the good prices, i wouldnt mind spending 20min to clean it off when i first get the machine if it means saving $600.

 

[brucedeluxe169]

the M1210 vs a Macbook is pretty much a slaughter in the M1210's favor...

the Dell has a superb build quality.... I know that Dell makes its 12 inchers with remarkable sturdyness. My 2 year old 12 inch Inspiron is rock solid, and I've never had any problems with the build or stability since day one. The M1210 is even better than mine, and I've had the opportunity to use one long term for a while, and it was phenominal. The amount of power in that thing is amazing, and if you load up RMclock, you can undervolt it and get around 5+ hours of battery life.

I do love Macbooks too, but I don't really have a need to run OSX. I'd LOVE to get a Macbook Pro above all else (yes, they do have a good video card!), but they are waaay too expensive Too bad too... the Macbook Pro barely even weighs more than the Macbook or Dell... so as a daily lugger, it would be my dream come true...

 

[0ptional]

Two reasons I hate macs, one their user base is extremely stuck up about how "if its not a mac its POS"...and two they are completely useless for almost everything but the most simple of daily tasks. Also having to work with them on a day to day basis for almost a year I can honestly say that im not just basing my opinion on biases...i LEARNED to generally hate the machine, from EXPERIENCE. Also back in the day (school computer lab) i worked on Imac G3's running OS 8.1 THEY WERE GREAT...but that was back when the only other option was windows 98 (not even windows 98 SE) which sucked balls. Now with windows 2000 pro, XP pro sp2, and XP MCE there is honestly no reason to use OS X other than "OMG ITS SOOOOO PRETTTY!!!" also you say youve never had a problem finding software for a mac...and that apple makes all you need. Try getting your industry standard inventory managing and register program running in an emulation program and try to get it to sync with your credit card processing server (which also had to run in emulation software) to work together....and then if your really really lucky 3 or 4 times a week it will actually be able to send out billing info. All because guess what...their is no mac version. again...i hate macs because i have learned to hate their uselessness.

Just to be fair here, even the Apple Store uses Windows Mobile devices for their checkout stand. Apple never intended Macs to be used in this arena it seems or the offerings available for Windows pose no real need for a Mac equivalent to be written.

I had the same experience in school with the older Macs. I learned to type on a Mac through the 3rd grade and did my reports in elementary school on a Mac too. In High School I did all my video editing on a Mac too. Each machine has it's uses, but I won't ever be without a Mac as my notebook from here on out. The keyboard shortcuts themselves make it that much more useful on the go.

Of course now the Macs can run Windows in Parallels (Virtualization) or natively via BootCamp so I can't see you ever having that same issue with your software ever again. At the time BootCamp was released it was primative but now it's pretty close to flawless and it's easier to install drivers using BootCamp than it is to search for drivers via each manufacturer on a PC. Apple made installing windows easier than doing it the standard PC/MS way.

I also didn't say Apple made all the software I would ever need, I said they have a nice directory of software that does include third parties, both free and retail.

Would it be ok to say that Mac just wasn't your thing and that you were using it in a situation without first being fully aware that there was not software available to do what you wanted it to do?

you do have a point there, it is very portable...the reason i got the e1705 is because i found i wasnt taking it to classes as often as i thought i would so i got a more powerful less portable laptop....thats not to say however that dells offerings in the ultra portable arena arent just as good as their offerings in the desktop replacement category...dell makes a kickass machine for a kickass price. The only complaint i have is with the bloatware they install....that of course can be remedied in about 20min using the "Dell decrappifier". But then again the bloatware is also one of the reasons of the good prices, i wouldnt mind spending 20min to clean it off when i first get the machine if it means saving $600.

Also it's all about what you need and use the notebook for. I get the impression that the OP does plan to carry this around a lot so that is why he's chosen these portable machines as his options, so anything like an E1705 is out of the question (not that you reccomended it, but just saying).

Dell's M1210 is probably a good notebook, but from my experience with other Dell's, both in my family and through friends, hasn't been very good when compared to my experiences with Mac's.

 

[Firefox90]

I have a Macbook 1.83ghz 1gig (plan for 2 after Xmas). I love it. After Apple replacing the whole laptop after getting one with one dead pixel, that basically sold me on their support. The ability to go to a store and talk to someone who speaks clear english is well worth it over a call to India. I had a Dell and the support sucked for me. If you get past no gaming on the macbook, it is and awesome unit. I love OS X and use it alongside my Vista gaming desktop. I like it better for day to day use. Installing programs by just dragging and dropping is one of my biggest loves. The unique apps out there such as Handbrake are truly awesome. People say it and I think it is true that Macs just seem to work. I have had no issues with my Mac. The keyboard is a dream. I absolutely love it. Battery life is great. The uniform dimensions are sweet. The track pad is HUGE! The right clicking with two fingers and scrolling with two fingers up and down is the best bar none integrated laptop interface I have ever experienced. I got my Macbook for $1000 flat at Amazon with a $100 off and free shipping and put 1 gig of Patriot ram in it. I love it. My other option was the HP DV2000T which was an awesome unit as well, but I wanted the slightly smaller and cleaner dimensions as well as wanting to gain experience with OS X. I will surely be a future Mac customer.

 

[six_storm]

Two reasons I hate macs, one their user base is extremely stuck up about how "if its not a mac its POS"

Well, I've been a Windows user for 10+ years and a Linux user for 2+ years. I can without a doubt say OSX > Linux > Windows. And also since I've spent the past 5+ years fixing PCs and dealing with stupid problems that I shouldn't be dealing with, with an OS, I can say that OSX is a breath of fresh air.

...and two they are completely useless for almost everything but the most simple of daily tasks. Also having to work with them on a day to day basis for almost a year I can honestly say that im not just basing my opinion on biases...i LEARNED to generally hate the machine, from EXPERIENCE.

I'm going to agree with the other guy on here and say that you really didn't look around for software on whatever the heck you are doing. "Well, I guess since this program doesn't come on the Mac straight up, I'm going to hate OSX forever and go back to WinDoze!!11"

Also back in the day (school computer lab) i worked on Imac G3's running OS 8.1 THEY WERE GREAT...but that was back when the only other option was windows 98 (not even windows 98 SE) which sucked balls

OMG! You actually thought anything pre-OSX was good? Wow, you have some weird likes/dislikes there buddy. I will agree and say 98 was a HUGE POS.

Now with windows 2000 pro, XP pro sp2, and XP MCE there is honestly no reason to use OS X other than "OMG ITS SOOOOO PRETTTY!!!"

Haha, actually it's more better of a reason to have OSX in today's world. Viruses, spyware, dealing with drivers, and just general Windoze problems.

also you say youve never had a problem finding software for a mac...and that apple makes all you need. Try getting your industry standard inventory managing and register program running in an emulation program and try to get it to sync with your credit card processing server (which also had to run in emulation software) to work together....and then if your really really lucky 3 or 4 times a week it will actually be able to send out billing info. All because guess what...their is no mac version. again...i hate macs because i have learned to hate their uselessness.

There are a few occasional times where some stupid company does not make a Mac version of their software, in which they need to be shot in the head for that, but still, there are some occasional times. That doesn't mean that the Mac is completely useless just because they don't have ONE program. Give me a break.

Again, I'll agree with the other guy. You didn't want to like OSX in the first place and your PC lust just took over in a split nanosecond. I don't think PCs/Windows/Linux is completely pointless and useless. Heck, if you are into PC gaming, go with Windows, I won't blame you. If you want a good, free OS, going with a Linux distro. But if you want the best and safest OS with minimal problems and a good quality piece of hardware, go with Mac.

 

[markt435]

i think its also about users as well. windows can run as stable and as safe as you want it to be. its only a matter of time before we start seeing how many problems with OSX come up when more and more ppl start using it...lol just wait i say...

 

[six_storm]

i think its also about users as well. windows can run as stable and as safe as you want it to be. its only a matter of time before we start seeing how many problems with OSX come up when more and more ppl start using it...lol just wait i say...

That's why I'm glad Apple machines are so expensive. It'll keep a lot of people out lol. Windows can be stable, but you have to find some dang good drivers. That's one thing I love about Apple hardware being a closed architecture.

 

[0ptional]

yea six_storm this isn't about which OS is better than the other, we all will have our own opinions about that, and bickering about it doesn't change anything. Its all about which OS works best for you. For me it's OS X > XP > Vista right now and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I'll be trying on several flavors of linux+XGL to see if it is up to my standard for a 3d desktop environment now that OS X has shown me the light in that regard.

 

[sin01]

Right, so you guys are talking about software available for osx, how it exists by may be a little hard to find. But reguardless, does the windows os on the mac machines eliminate that as a possible problem. Like if you are stuck not finding something, and you have windows on your machine too, cant you just use the bootcamp or Rosetta or whatever to go on your windows machine and get what you need? If this isnt so then i am mis understanding something about the situation, something that i think will play a large role in my preference about the laptops!

 

[Demon_of_The_Fall]

nvm

 

[0ptional]

Right, so you guys are talking about software available for osx, how it exists by may be a little hard to find. But reguardless, does the windows os on the mac machines eliminate that as a possible problem. Like if you are stuck not finding something, and you have windows on your machine too, cant you just use the bootcamp or Rosetta or whatever to go on your windows machine and get what you need? If this isnt so then i am mis understanding something about the situation, something that i think will play a large role in my preference about the laptops!

Ok a few things here.

Rosetta is for emulating the PPC architecture of the old macs and some older programs on the new Intel architecture, not for emulating windows.

Finding applications isn't hard, but not all applications are created equally. On the first page of this thread, post 16 is a list of good applications I use daily, and I have a few more now that I'll be sure to fill you in on.

Also moving into BootCamp requires you to restart to get into Windows. Parallels however is like VMWare for PC (of which there is also now an OS X version that is good), and you can use that to run WinXP/Vista/whatever on your Mac and it runs very well, about 98% as fast as the real thing on your hardware, but I wouldn't want to touch any 3D applications with it, if you want to do 3D (which isn't a MacBook's strength anyway), you'd want to use BootCamp to get full power from the GPU.

Also yes, if you have Windows on your Mac there isn't a reason you shouldn't be able to find any piece of software you ever need. But that software you find on Windows won't effect your OS X install, and vice-versa. So yeah. Running Windows on a Mac is still running windows, you'll need anti-virus and anti-spyware etc.. unless you just transfer from you OS X drive to your XP drive and don't have internet enabled on XP you should be fine. There are programs that enable the transfer across.

A good thing to know is that OS X can read but not write to NTFS partitions, but it CAN read/write to FAT32 partitions, so if you install XP/BootCamp onto a FAT32 partition, OS X has full read-write access to moving stuff across the two OS'.

XP can't read or write to HFS+ (the Mac filesystem) without some extra software.

Also umm, oh right, the new Parallels release enables you to boot from a BootCamp partition as well, so you can transfer your applications from OS X to your FAT32 WinXP install and then boot to it using Parallels instead of having to restart to access it.

Pretty cool stuff. What do you think about that? Did I answer your question? Any more questions?

 

[sin01]

bump giggidy

 

[0ptional]

bump giggidy

What other questions do you have?

I'm more than happy to fill you in more on the MacBook. I leave thursday for Spain though...

 

[ToastMaster]

That's why I recommend using 1gb or more of memory. The onboard graphics fits the bill though for a true notebook, it isn't meant for gaming. I don't think gaming on the go is even worth it, and if you get a gaming notebook don't expect to actually take it anywhere because the battery will be really short and it's probably pretty big and heavy.

While I generally do agree that MacBooks are nice, this is one point I can't help but be rather annoyed about.

There is no "true notebook" anymore. The whole reason there are so many of them is because companies make them to fit each person's definition - one person may have a problem with lugging a 7-8 lb., 17" laptop around, but others couldn't care less.

Integrated graphics are good for one type of system ideally - laptops that will be used for basic work productivity software, e-mail and internet usage, and such.

As for gaming on the go "not being worth it", I think there are quite a few people, who would like to be able to play a game on an airplane ride, or while on a less-than-desirable trip, do some gaming. Look at college/university settings - people who want to be able to carry their system around, and yet while in the dorm, play games with their roommates/floormates etc., without having to have a desktop system present. A desktop-replacement notebook serves that perfectly.

Also, remember - if discrete graphics make a laptop not a "true notebook", then what is the MacBook Pro?

 

[ToastMaster]

I love how the Apple die-hards come in and begin to bash Windows relentlessly.

I've been using OS X since it was a beta, when OS 9.x ran faster across the board. I was a user on a Quicksilver PowerMac 867 when OS X came out, and didn't run much faster. 10.1 changed that, and now it is quite the good OS.

However, here's the thing - a system, no matter the OS, can be as stable as can be or not stable at all, depending on how they use it. I've seen people needlessly load their iBooks, PowerBooks, MacBooks, MacBook Pros with software that makes OS X almost grind to a halt performance-wise.

I've seen the same with XP, and will certainly see it with Vista as well. The thing is though, OS X's "stability" is due not because it is necessarily a better OS, but because it only has to support a limited, Apple-approved range of hardware. Whenever you limit what an OS has to support, it makes it that much more possible to maximize stability. I can guarantee that if OS X had been required to support anywhere near what Windows has had to, it wouldn't have come out for at least a few more years, and even then it would probably be in no better of a condition than XP. Linux doesn't have to support what XP does. OS X doesn't have to support what XP does. And, given that, I would say that, just as with the other two, if a competent person is using the system, stability is a non-factor. Have a good anti-virus program, keep it up-to-date, keep Windows up to date, have Windows firewall enabled, and scrutinize what you're opening and where you got it from, and Windows won't have any problems.

And for the person who said that it's ridiculous that a company doesn't release software for both, I ask: why? The userbase is so much smaller for Apple systems, and generally most pieces of software have a limited scope for users, that unless a company knows there's enough people to pay a higher price for it (read: Adobe products, etc.), there's no reason to release software that will loose your money or, maybe at best, net a small profit.

Finally, that having been said - if a person is just looking to surf the web, use Office or similar applications, and need something light-weight and portable to do such stuff, there's no better option I would say than a MacBook.

 

[Dennis Gordon]

Well said. Windows users suffer from the plethora of ubiquitous cheap boxes that are underpowered, underprotected, and shipped with tons of bloatware that opens the door for internet intrusion. We have a boneyard developing on a desk in the office where half a dozen fairly recent cheap Dell's have come to rest, either because of spyware angina, or recurrent thermal failure detection. By contrast the dozen or so homebuilts I put together for the production dept go on and on (and most of them are overclocked, since I can never leave well enough alone). There's nothing inherently wrong with XP as a useful OS. Sexy it ain't; but it's mature and comprehensive, and you can still make a good XP box for cheap if you want to. I'd love a Macbook Pro, but $2K is just too much for whatever added benefit I'd get from it...

 

[0ptional]

While I generally do agree that MacBooks are nice, this is one point I can't help but be rather annoyed about.

There is no "true notebook" anymore. The whole reason there are so many of them is because companies make them to fit each person's definition - one person may have a problem with lugging a 7-8 lb., 17" laptop around, but others couldn't care less.

Integrated graphics are good for one type of system ideally - laptops that will be used for basic work productivity software, e-mail and internet usage, and such.

As for gaming on the go "not being worth it", I think there are quite a few people, who would like to be able to play a game on an airplane ride, or while on a less-than-desirable trip, do some gaming. Look at college/university settings - people who want to be able to carry their system around, and yet while in the dorm, play games with their roommates/floormates etc., without having to have a desktop system present. A desktop-replacement notebook serves that perfectly.

Also, remember - if discrete graphics make a laptop not a "true notebook", then what is the MacBook Pro?

Good point. By *true*, I meant a machine for productivity. MacBook Pro's are made for those doing higher end professional work that requires a larger screen and a discreet graphics card, like 3D work. I would never dream of gaming on either of the two machines often; although that is what many people do with their notebooks.

WoW just got a 2.01 update that added Multi-threaded OpenGL support and framerates on MacBook's are between 25~32 now and MacBook Pro's are 75~85. Previously the MacBook would hobble around 1~20 and the MBP's would put out 60~70.

I'm in college on my notebook actually, and at least here I know consoles reign supreme for gaming. Not that your point is invalid. If I wanted to play a PC game I'd not want to lug my desktop there. The laptop would be the way to go.

I see kids lugging their 17" notebooks to class, but I often hear them complain about it as well. I also see them trying to put their PC's in their backpacks and they often crumple papers to make it fit. Not the most organized people I can tell, but my MacBook slips in and out without issues because of it's form factor. The MBP is the same way. Rather, any notebook as sleek as the Apple's would work just as well. Anything with an overextending "foot" battery or even small protruding feet for cooling seems to be an issue. I know my Alienware was when I took it around. That thing is a 15" 4:3 11lb dual battery monster and barely put out 2 hours of playtime. That's where I get my experience with gaming notebooks. It just doesn't seem worth it.

That was a good point though, I liked hearing about the planes and such. I found myself loading up WarCraft III today so I would be prepared for the long flight to Barcelona, Spain on thursday. It runs well enough with medium quality at native resolution on this machine so it's certainly possible to play a game on a MacBook, it's certainly not what I would purchase the machine for.

I bought my Mac because of it's portability, usability, form factor, and to try OS X. Now I'll never go back. I'm sure I'd be even happier with an MBP but that's more money than my dad was willing to split the cost of with me at the time of going off to college

I love how the Apple die-hards come in and begin to bash Windows relentlessly.

I've been using OS X since it was a beta, when OS 9.x ran faster across the board. I was a user on a Quicksilver PowerMac 867 when OS X came out, and didn't run much faster. 10.1 changed that, and now it is quite the good OS.

However, here's the thing - a system, no matter the OS, can be as stable as can be or not stable at all, depending on how they use it. I've seen people needlessly load their iBooks, PowerBooks, MacBooks, MacBook Pros with software that makes OS X almost grind to a halt performance-wise.

I've seen the same with XP, and will certainly see it with Vista as well. The thing is though, OS X's "stability" is due not because it is necessarily a better OS, but because it only has to support a limited, Apple-approved range of hardware. Whenever you limit what an OS has to support, it makes it that much more possible to maximize stability. I can guarantee that if OS X had been required to support anywhere near what Windows has had to, it wouldn't have come out for at least a few more years, and even then it would probably be in no better of a condition than XP. Linux doesn't have to support what XP does. OS X doesn't have to support what XP does. And, given that, I would say that, just as with the other two, if a competent person is using the system, stability is a non-factor. Have a good anti-virus program, keep it up-to-date, keep Windows up to date, have Windows firewall enabled, and scrutinize what you're opening and where you got it from, and Windows won't have any problems.

And for the person who said that it's ridiculous that a company doesn't release software for both, I ask: why? The userbase is so much smaller for Apple systems, and generally most pieces of software have a limited scope for users, that unless a company knows there's enough people to pay a higher price for it (read: Adobe products, etc.), there's no reason to release software that will loose your money or, maybe at best, net a small profit.

Finally, that having been said - if a person is just looking to surf the web, use Office or similar applications, and need something light-weight and portable to do such stuff, there's no better option I would say than a MacBook.

That's pretty much what I've been saying I think?
You put it more clearly that me though, thanks for that.

I also just picked up Creative Suite 2 for my MacBook with student pricing. Got it updated and it runs pretty well. I'm also keeping up with the rumors that there might be a public beta for CS2 users of a Universal Binary version of CS3. I'm greatly looking forward to that. I've got a CS2 book for the plane thursday

Well said. Windows users suffer from the plethora of ubiquitous cheap boxes that are underpowered, underprotected, and shipped with tons of bloatware that opens the door for internet intrusion. We have a boneyard developing on a desk in the office where half a dozen fairly recent cheap Dell's have come to rest, either because of spyware angina, or recurrent thermal failure detection. By contrast the dozen or so homebuilts I put together for the production dept go on and on (and most of them are overclocked, since I can never leave well enough alone). There's nothing inherently wrong with XP as a useful OS. Sexy it ain't; but it's mature and comprehensive, and you can still make a good XP box for cheap if you want to. I'd love a Macbook Pro, but $2K is just too much for whatever added benefit I'd get from it...

Yay! More about PC's! There's not enough of it in here.
I like WinXP, I just like OS X more (now that I've been using it), I like it better than Vista as well (so far, haven't put much time into it).

If a person takes care of their computer, there's no reason it shouldn't run well and continue to run well. It's a little different with OS X though as there isn't as much to worry about.

XP is a good OS. I've been using it for years and will continue to use it until Vista gets more settled. But right now I'm in OS X and I can't see Vista overtaking that either because I've got BootCamp if I really want to run it, so I won't need to purchase any other hardware. I'm actually selling my desktop soon to replace with an iMac or MacPro; depends on if I get that 22" LCD for Christmas or not.

I've got die-hard PC friends taking second looks at Apple's offerings and wishing they'd purchased MacBook's (or MBP's) instead of their Latitude D620 or D820 they're lugging around. They like the look and feel, and they like OS X (now). Before I got to them (and before OS X got to me), we all just thought Mac's were for Photoshop and Video Editing, which while that is one of their strong suits, can do so much more!

OS X and Mac computers in general has been a great learning experience and I can't wait to get more into it. It's a lot more fun to use than Windows ever was, in either of it's incarnations.

i think its also about users as well. windows can run as stable and as safe as you want it to be. its only a matter of time before we start seeing how many problems with OSX come up when more and more ppl start using it...lol just wait i say...

It seems I missed this post earlier. I find it hard to think you could find much more when OS X was released even before Windows XP made it to it's RTM build.

The only real way to screw up a Mac is to delete some important system file, and even then it's pretty hard to do. Mac's have you working in a few folders specifically where system files are nowhere to be found.

On my PC I find myself going in and out of Program Files and Windows and System32 directories pretty often, and from there you can do quite a bit of damage to your applications and your OS.

 

[CMonakar]

I got my Sony 13.3" SZ last week and am very happy with it. The battery life when watching a DVD on 4/5 brightness with the sound way up is around 2:15-2:30. I haven't done anything extraordinary with it yet, but so far I am satisfied with the purchase. The only thing I don't like is that the headphone jack volume is a bit low when used with my I-pod headphones and a set of JVCs that I just purchased. Not that I care about this sort of thing, but the mat black case with silver letters looks bad ass

 

[blank]

wow what a complicated thread. a friend of mine wanted a mac, so he got a black MB, a professor of mine wanted a mac, so he got a MB, my girlfriend wanted to run all her engineering programs and loves ASUS, so she got an ASUS...Doesn't it just depend guys