1920x1200 / IPS / Standard Gamut?

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eaclou

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Hi everyone, i've been reading these forums for awhile now and just recently joined.

I'm looking to build a brand new computer at the end of October for 3D Graphics / Adobe CS4 suite, gaming, and blu-ray playback, pretty much in that order, and i'm looking for a high-quality monitor, as precise colors will be very important.

After a few months of on and off reading, the obvious candidate is the NEC 2490wuxi.... which looks amazing, but man -- that price is killer, and it only makes sense to also get the calibration kit since you're already spending a grand on a display.

As all the digital graphics work I do will be displayed electronically and not in print, a wide-gamut monitor would only serve to be annoying and confusing.

I've been searching for a less-pricey alternative that meets the three basic requirements:

1. 1900x1200 resolution (I need a lot of screen space for my 3D apps and photoshop)
2. IPS panel for excellent color reproduction, viewing angles, better response for animating, games, and blu-ray playback.
3. STANDARD gamut. Everything above $400 seems to be wide gamut...

SO... are there any other monitors other than the NEC 2490wuxi that have those 3 features? I can afford the NEC if i have to, but it costs the same as the rest of my planned computer build alone (i7-860 + 8GB ram, ati Radeon 5770, blu-ray drive etc.) - and seems such a high price to pay for such a seemingly simple list of needs; especially since there are plenty of reports of it coming with dead pixels, which is unnerving. I feel like if i buy it i'll cringe every time someone asks me how much i paid for it.

Any Recommendations?
 
Hi.

What country are you in? In the U.S. and Europe NEC have replaced the 2490wuxi with the LCD2490WUXi2 because LGPhilips-LCD discontinued the original panel. In this forum we've been receiving reports fairly pissed off about the poor performance of the 2490wuxi2.

When it comes to price, bear in mind that the 2490 is not simply a 24" IPS panel like would be the case with a Dell or HP model. The NEC has a full array of features such as uniformity correction, black point control, sophisticated scaling, an internal LUT and compatiblity with the Spectraview profiling software. At least in Australia, I don't find the price particularly jarring considering both what you get and what the competitors are asking.

As for alternatives, the Dell U2410 is a wide-gamut IPS model that, on account of its internal CLUT supposedly offers an accurate sRGB mode, but the test reviews from from flatpanelshd and tftcentral aren't out yet.

The 2490 is locked to 60Hz, so a telecine pulldown will occur with 23.976Hz media playback. I personally have decided that the 3:2 pulldown is an acceptable solution and am satisfied enough not to discount a model because of it.

The idea of dead pixels doesn't really phase me, except if they were present in a really intrusive location. Besides, there are other problems actually worth worrying about, such as brightness uniformity. I suppose the eagle does not hunt flies.
 
The old ACD or other 23" 1920x1200 IPS monitors were sRGB. The new 24" ACD is also sRGB, and could be connected via displayport using this adapter, however it has no OSD and I'm not sure if windows utilities like softMCCS would work with it.

The 2490 is a better choice than the alternatives if you must have sRGB.
 
Man, decisions, decisions :confused:

So it sounds like the 2490 is unrivaled.

Are there any VA panel monitors with 1920x1200 and standard gamut?

Also, to make things even harder, there are refurbished NEC 2090uxi for $320 at techforless.

Thinking it might be worth it to put down 320 for a smaller monitor to see how big of a difference the Panel quality makes for me, and then use it as a second monitor if i eventually get the 2490wuxi.
 
Unfortunately the last remaining 1920x1200 *VA panels with sRGB gamut are also gone.

There is the Samsung F2380 S-PVA based screen, but it is "only" 1080p and not nearly as good as the LCD2490WUXI or Dell U2410 according to reviews by ToastyX and Albovin. The U2410 looks attractive with its fairly well calibrated sRGB mode, but you would still want to calibrate it using a colorimeter and software package for proper use with accurate colors. Also it does NOT have the A-TW polarizer so it is grainier in appearance than the LCD2490 and blacks will have a mirrorish white glow when viewed from up close and off-angle.

The NEC LC2490WUXI is really the cream of the crop and well worth the cost. I would recommend the SpectraView II (SV version) as well for graphics work. It may initially be very well calibrated from the factory, but even LCDs drift in color a bit after years of use, and the calibration suite ensures you will get consistent color for the life of the screen even after backlight reduction and panel changes.

I would recommend a colorimeter suite even for other lower end, non-LUT programmable screens too for graphics.

Maybe the EA231WMi (also only 1920x1080) will be a nice IPS alternative for a fraction of the $$$, but no reviews nor availability mean you may be taking a chance waiting to get one. Ie. when and where.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone -- it's really disappointing to see such horrible selection in the high-quality LCD market; it's totally dominated by TN's.

Anyway, i'm pretty much leaning towards ordering one of those refurb 2090uxi from Techforless.com for $313 + ~30 shipping (The price is so good for what it is, and the 2090 IS standard gamut, correct?).

My thinking was to get a first-hand idea of the quality of the panel of the 2490 without committing to a ~$1200 purchase. I really want a 1920x1200 so I can use the monitor to play full 1080p Blu-rays and for the extra horizontal space for my 3D / Graphics applications, but I was thinking if the 2090 impresses me enough, i can get the 2490 and use the 2090 as a secondary monitor, rather than the crappy 5-6-year old 17" that I was planning on having as my second display.

I was doing some math to see how they would line up and it seems pretty close in height, but I came to two different numbers from my two ways of calculating the panel height:

For the first method, I used the Pythagorean Theorem based on 20.1" w/ a 3:4 ratio, and 24.1" w/ 9:16 ratio to calculate the height, resulting in:

2090 = 12.06" = 295.5mm
2490 = 11.82" = 289.6mm
So ~1/4 of an inch difference in height, with the 2090 being taller.

The second method was just to multiply the rated pixel pitch by vertical resolution (1200pixels), resulting in:

2090 = (0.255mm pp x 1200p) = 306mm
2490 = (0.27mm pp x 1200p) = 324mm
So 18mm = 0.71", or almost 3/4" height differential, with the 2490 being taller.

I have no idea why those two methods are giving me such a different result, but anyways, I at least know that the height difference will be less than one inch, which is reassuring.

Has anyone tried a similar setup with slightly different sized monitors in a dual-monitor display?

Does anyone see any big problem with going this route? (Buying 2090 refurb to get a sense for the panel before possibly purchasing the big boy 2490+spectraview.)

Thanks everyone, this forum is incredibly helpful, especially considering the sparseness of information on these professional-quality LCDs.
 
eaclou said:
Thanks for the replies everyone -- it's really disappointing to see such horrible selection in the high-quality LCD market; it's totally dominated by TN's.

Anyway, i'm pretty much leaning towards ordering one of those refurb 2090uxi from Techforless.com for $313 + ~30 shipping (The price is so good for what it is, and the 2090 IS standard gamut, correct?).

My thinking was to get a first-hand idea of the quality of the panel of the 2490 without committing to a ~$1200 purchase. I really want a 1920x1200 so I can use the monitor to play full 1080p Blu-rays and for the extra horizontal space for my 3D / Graphics applications, but I was thinking if the 2090 impresses me enough, i can get the 2490 and use the 2090 as a secondary monitor, rather than the crappy 5-6-year old 17" that I was planning on having as my second display.

I was doing some math to see how they would line up and it seems pretty close in height, but I came to two different numbers from my two ways of calculating the panel height:

For the first method, I used the Pythagorean Theorem based on 20.1" w/ a 3:4 ratio, and 24.1" w/ 9:16 ratio to calculate the height, resulting in:

2090 = 12.06" = 295.5mm
2490 = 11.82" = 289.6mm
So ~1/4 of an inch difference in height, with the 2090 being taller.

The second method was just to multiply the rated pixel pitch by vertical resolution (1200pixels), resulting in:

2090 = (0.255mm pp x 1200p) = 306mm
2490 = (0.27mm pp x 1200p) = 324mm
So 18mm = 0.71", or almost 3/4" height differential, with the 2490 being taller.

I have no idea why those two methods are giving me such a different result, but anyways, I at least know that the height difference will be less than one inch, which is reassuring.

Has anyone tried a similar setup with slightly different sized monitors in a dual-monitor display?

Does anyone see any big problem with going this route? (Buying 2090 refurb to get a sense for the panel before possibly purchasing the big boy 2490+spectraview.)

Thanks everyone, this forum is incredibly helpful, especially considering the sparseness of information on these professional-quality LCDs.
Click to expand...

The 2490 is 16:10, not 16:9.

If you look around you can get one for around 50-60% of msrp. I picked up an open box 2490 with full warranty for $520+shipping the other day.
 
LOL! Always make those careless errors in math - and I knew it was 16:10, dont know why i was using 16:9.... oh well, new math:

(10x)^2 + (16x)^2 = (24.1)^2
100x^2 + 256x^2 = 580.81
356x^2 = 580.81
x^2 = 1.6315
x = 1.2773
1.2773 x 10 = 12.77"
12.77 - 12.06 = 0.71"
= exactly what I got from starting with dot pitch, haha.

Ok, so the 2490 is 0.71" taller than the 2090. problem solved. Do you think 3/4 of an inch will be an annoying difference?

So where were you able to find refurb 2490's for that price? I heard techforless had them a few weeks ago, but when I called to ask about the 2090, i asked if they knew if they would be getting any 2490's in the future and the salesman said no.

Also, do those refurbs come with the Spectraview Software? The colorimeter is ~$200 and software ~$100, which would be 800-900 total, and at that point don't you think buying new for the 4-year warranty would be worth the $300-400?

Thanks again,
 
Hmm... thanks for the link, too bad i already did the math. oh well, High School Geometry was correct at least (in the end).

Anyone seen 2490wuxi originals Refurbs for sale anywhere? I've seen one from a search on google, but it's still $800, with $95 shipping.... not really a great deal.
 
I guess I got lucky...I bought a non-refurb with full warranty off of techforless for 520+shipping. It should get here tomorrow, so hopefully it's not a hoax! :)

Anyway, as for the calibrator/software...the puck that comes with the spectraview kit it an x-rite eye-one 2...which is the same hardware in this kit - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CR78CE

If you want the NEC software its 90$ download off their site. But you are right, its still extra cost. Course, you get the hood with the "SV" kit aswell (when purchased w/ monitor) so that may be a factor.

It's a personal call on the warranty (if you get a refurb) being worth $300-400. (Note that techforless states that factory refurbs carry full warranty.
 
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I lucked out and got the 2490 from techforless a month ago.

It is awesome and no problems to report. Now i just need a calibration tool...

I would definitely do business with techforless again, their rep I spoke to on the phone (Dave?) was very helpful, informative and knew the return policies and was able to articulate them for me.
 
So I went ahead and got a 2090uxi from techforless for 310 + shipping. Considering it's 799 retail without shipping i'm pretty pleased. I decided to get it so i had a first-hand impression of the quality of the panel before deciding whether or not to blow the load on a 2490wuxi.

It arrived today. They included a power cord and VGA to VGA cable, no driver CD or manual, and no DVI cable (grr). The packaging was pretty good, the box arrived intact and there were no visible scratches or dents on the monitor itself. I really wish they had included a DVI instead, i'm going to have to pick one up tomorrow. (Will it make a noticeable difference?)

I took some photos, but i can't find my damn camera USB cord, and don't have a card reader, so i won't be able to post until i find it. I'm interested in comparing with others to see how mine stacks up to the general standard. However, initial thoughts:

- No dead or Stuck pixels that i can see from an initial look (full screen red, blue, green, black, white in Photoshop)
- Looks like some backlight bleed on the upper left, and the bottom of the screen (tested with full black screen)
- Viewing angles are good for the most part, but the brightness is not fully consistent across the screen (maybe due to the backlight non-uniformity?)
- However, when viewed from a diagonal (above and to the side) the screen becomes very purple-pink. Is this normal? (I'm assuming i didn't get an A-TW polarizer :(
- Text is fine. I had heard reports about problems with text quality, but i'm perfectly content at the native 1600x1200 resolution.
- I turned colorcomp ON, but haven't seen too much of an improvement (the bottom of the screen is still brighter than the rest)
-There is some crystal-sparkle effect in bright colors from the anti-glare coating. It's not too bad but it is there. It's more noticeable the higher the brightness is set.
- I do not have a colorimeter, or the spectraview software so I'm not sure how much of a difference that could make, although I tried to distinguish pure black from 1 1 1, and couldn't do so reliably. Same with white and 254 254 254.

Hopefully I'll be able to post photos tomorrow and can get some feedback on the quality of the panel, and how much difference DVI and calibration could make.

Overall I'm pleased with the purchase (definitely don't regret it) but also pretty disappointed. For a monitor that costs 800 retail, with the same panel as the much-famed 2490, the consistency across the panel doesn't seem that amazing with the lights off and the screen full black. I wish i had a Modern TN panel to compare it to though.

When i pick up a DVI cable i'll be able to use my 6-year-old LCD as a secondary monitor which will be nice. I'm still trying to decide if buying the 2490wuxi is worth it, but i have to say, initial impressions are not as amazing as I had expected. Maybe my expectations were too high, but i've heard such amazing things about these NEC monitors -- we'll see once i get some photos online - maybe it's just this particular one.
 
The 2090uxi is a S-IPS panel , not H-ips which the 2490wuxi has. Which explains the purple color at off angles. 2490wuxi would be worth 200more if you got lucky and got one with no problems. Although I'm using a glossy S-IPS which looks pretty awesome.
 
The 2090uxi should have the A-TW polarizer, which would explain a pink color on a black screen. Backlight bleed is worse than white glow (or glow of any other color) so if you can get it refunded or repaired by NEC you should. Pics would help though.

Go through the tests at lagom.nl to see if you can calibrate it by eye to some degree. That should help with black and white gradations.
 
"- However, when viewed from a diagonal (above and to the side) the screen becomes very purple-pink. Is this normal? (I'm assuming i didn't get an A-TW polarizer "


You mean solely on black and other dark colors now right?
I get that purple-pinkish tint too, but have to go to quite extreme angles and it's almost impossible to see in daylight conditions. The evening is another case though, even if I have all lamps turned on. It's much more evident when there's no daylight.
I believe the A-TW-polarizer started dissappering in early 2009, when was your monitor manufactured? Mine is revison 1A and was made in july 2008.
Some photos would be great!

Digital Versus has tested the monitor, the angles look perfect on their photo.
http://www.digitalversus.com
hxxp://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/52/1026/52_103_108.jpg
I would say there's a quite significant loss in brightness once the angle is big enough, but well, it's TFT, not an OLED or something.



"- I turned colorcomp ON, but haven't seen too much of an improvement (the bottom of the screen is still brighter than the rest)"

Hmm, okay, maybe this irregularity is too much to correct. You have cranked up Colorcomp I assume? Mine is running at 3 out of 5.


"the consistency across the panel doesn't seem that amazing with the lights off and the screen full black"

:D
Well these aren't normal conditions which you'll use the monitor in, or do you feel comfy sitting in a completely dark room with the monitor glowing in your face?


"-There is some crystal-sparkle effect in bright colors from the anti-glare coating. It's not too bad but it is there. It's more noticeable the higher the brightness is set."

Yepp, sure it's there!

"- I do not have a colorimeter, or the spectraview software so I'm not sure how much of a difference that could make, although I tried to distinguish pure black from 1 1 1, and couldn't do so reliably. Same with white and 254 254 254."

After a couple of months without calibration, mine has problems with the darkest shades of gray as well.
 
Ok, so i took a few pictures, and was finally able to hook up DVI so i could power on my second, 6-year-old LCD (Viewsonic VA720) as a secondary monitor.

*I haven't run any calibration yet*

first, dark room, all black image, from the front (all pictures are of the 2090uxi unless otherwise stated):

front_dark.jpg


From various angles:

angles_dark.jpg


with an all-red image:

red.jpg


and next to the old LCD, dark room, black image. The camera makes the old LCD look worse than i think it actually was as far as bleed.

compare.jpg


Is this an acceptable amount of backlight bleed? I don't like how it is a warmer color towards the bottom left than upper-right, for example, even when straight on, and there's noticeable bleed in the upper-left corner.

How bad is this compared to a perfect model? Is it worth returning? - should i expect quality like this from a brand new 2490wuxi, or could it be because this is a Factory Refurb?

Also, i found a single dead pixel towards the bottom left - out of the way enough that it doesn't bother me, but still.. :(
 
eaclou said:
Is this an acceptable amount of backlight bleed? I don't like how it is a warmer color towards the bottom left than upper-right, for example, even when straight on, and there's noticeable bleed in the upper-left corner.

How bad is this compared to a perfect model? Is it worth returning? - should i expect quality like this from a brand new 2490wuxi, or could it be because this is a Factory Refurb?

Also, i found a single dead pixel towards the bottom left - out of the way enough that it doesn't bother me, but still.. :(
Click to expand...

I bought a 2490, and I have a dead pixel, it would have been a fight to return and not worth it. I might see it once/month and unfortunately LG IPS panels seem to have more than average amount of dead pixels.

Also I see no significant bleed either. If you swapped panels, you probably won't see better and you probably won't see better with a new 2490.

If you do tests in the dark at extreme angles all LCDs look like crap.

What matters (and where the A-TW NECs shine) is how it behaves in 99%+ normal situations. Sit in front of it and use it like a monitor, it should present and extremely stable imaging stage, where you can move around and none of the colors change, shadow detail stays consistent. No other LCD really offers this simple capability.
 
eaclou said:
Is this an acceptable amount of backlight bleed? I don't like how it is a warmer color towards the bottom left than upper-right, for example, even when straight on, and there's noticeable bleed in the upper-left corner.

How bad is this compared to a perfect model? Is it worth returning? - should i expect quality like this from a brand new 2490wuxi, or could it be because this is a Factory Refurb?

Also, i found a single dead pixel towards the bottom left - out of the way enough that it doesn't bother me, but still.. :(
Click to expand...

Definitely no A-TW polarizer there.

Doesn't look too good from your shots, and if it's worse in person I wouldn't take that. You might try contacting NEC to see if there's anything they will do for you.
 
Thanks everyone, looks like we have some differing opinions.

Well, as of right now, i'm leaning towards keeping it, (I'd hate to go through the hassle to return it and get a new one that's even worse; plus, i got it refurbished, i would probably try returning if i had spent the full $800. Plus, i was not intending it to be my primary monitor in the long run anyway) but it does make me a little worried about putting down big bucks for the 2490.

I'd like to see it side-by-side with the highest-quality TN 24" screen, just to see how much of a quality difference there is. The jump from my old Viewsonic to this is very noticeable, but it's about 6-years old, and I'm not sure how much TN panels have improved since then. Anyone own both a 24" TN ('high' quality) and NEC2490? Alternatively, are there any physical stores that sell the 2490 so i could actually see it in person?

Ideally, an open box 2490wuxi (with the 4-year warranty) would be perfect, but i'm hesitant to pull the trigger before being confident that I will be able to see a large difference in quality from the best 24" TN panel (up to 800 cheaper).

Anyone used SupplySale.com before or heard good/bad things about it?
What other websites typically offer NEC's open box / factory refurb?
Should I wait until Black Friday and see if i can get something then?

Sorry for all the questions, but you guys have been incredibly knowledgeable and helpful, and i really appreciate it.

EDIT: Forgot to mention -- is there an advanced OSD menu for the 2090uxi like there is for the 2490? I tried turning it off, holding the input button and then pressing power, but it didn't pull up a menu.
 
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Well, it doesn't look exactly like mine does with a black background, I'd say mine is better but it's not that big of a difference. You failed to answer when it was manufactured. There's a white sticker showing date and revision.
Maybe they never put an A-TW-polarizer in the american 2090... A wild guess though

Still, the viewing angles should be great on normal images, you seem a little obsessed with black levels in a dark room...


Forgot to mention -- is there an advanced OSD menu for the 2090uxi like there is for the 2490? I tried turning it off, holding the input button and then pressing power, but it didn't pull up a menu.


Yes there is, 1-9 plus A-E. You said you enabled colorcomp, then you're in the advanced menu. Don't have to shut it down, one can also hold the input button when you fire up at the start of the day.
The advanced menu is activated then, it doesn't pop up by itself.


nomu said:
Definitely no A-TW polarizer there.

Doesn't look too good from your shots, and if it's worse in person I wouldn't take that. You might try contacting NEC to see if there's anything they will do for you.
Click to expand...


Well it cost him 300 bucks plus shipping. That's like nothing here in Europe. A new 2090UXi is a $1000, a new 2690WUXi2 ~$1700. And one dead pixel close to the frame. Could have happened with a new unit as well.
 
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Jonte said:
Well it cost him 300 bucks plus shipping. That's like nothing here in Europe. A new 2090UXi is a $1000, a new 2690WUXi2 ~$1700. And one dead pixel close to the frame. Could have happened with a new unit as well.
Click to expand...

It could be worse, but there's a lot of room for improvement from bad uniformity and a dead pixel. NEC is a premium brand with good customer service, may as well use what little time you have to call them up and see if they can do anything, like cross ship a replacement. If they can't, like you said it's just $300 for a completely functional 16x12 display.
 
nomu said:
It could be worse, but there's a lot of room for improvement from bad uniformity and a dead pixel. NEC is a premium brand with good customer service, may as well use what little time you have to call them up and see if they can do anything, like cross ship a replacement. If they can't, like you said it's just $300 for a completely functional 16x12 display.
Click to expand...

His uniformity isn't that bad and NEC doesn't replace for a single bad pixel. I have one on my 2490.

I say use it in normal situations and stick with it unless it drives you nuts. It is a waste of time and money exchanging it for minor issues that could very likely be worse on the next unit.

Trust me it is light years better for stable image than any new TN panel.
 
So after using this monitor for 3 days, I have two issues. The first is accessing the advanced OSM menu. I've tried every combination of button pressing while booting up the monitor, with the computer on and off, and i can't seem to get in. The user manual says hold the input button, press power on, hold for at least 1 second and then press one of the other buttons - can't get it to work.

I got color comp ON in the regular menu, but there i only have the options for ON and OFF, not 1-5. Any ideas why this might be the case? I made sure to update the drivers, although the newest one windows could find was from 2007 (same date on NEC site)

second problem: viewing angle is slightly off, but much more serious, greys are horrible - see screenshots:

(lagom.com viewing angle image - There's uniformity primarily along the bottom of the panel)
lagom.jpg


(photoshop backdrop. The color shifts from a green/blue at the bottom, to a warmer reddish pink near the top)
grey.jpg


Has anyone else had this issue? It's very noticeable, i'm now thinking i should call NEC or techforless and see if this is enough for a return, assuming no one else has this issue.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Finally got into the advanced menu, don't know why it took so long. Anyway, i tried ramping color-comp to 5, and the grey hue issue is still there really clearly in photoshop (see image in previous post).

Is this kind of screen non-uniformity the kind of issue that would be fixed by running the spectraview software with a colorimeter? Or is this most likely the mark of a defective panel? The hue shifting is most visible in the grayscale (and as colors become less saturated) which is a problem as I work with a lot of pretty desaturated images.

Is this a common problem? Or a problem that would normally be eliminated with calibration? Otherwise i think i'm going to call up techforless and see what a return would entail.

Thanks again everyone, hopefully this is the last question.
 
eaclou said:
Is this kind of screen non-uniformity the kind of issue that would be fixed by running the spectraview software with a colorimeter?
Click to expand...

Spectraview won't help at all. It afects everything the same from measuring at one point.

The only possible help was colorcomp.
 
I'd get 3x dell 2209wa's for ~$230 a pop and put em in eyefininty config : D. in portrait mode thats 3150x1680
 
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