2005FPW vs 2405FPW

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dandragonrage

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
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What are the differences between the 2005FPW and 2405FPW other than size/resolution? I have a 2005FPW hooked up via DVI to a 6600GT and the more I use it, the more I hate LCDs.

-There's some EXTREME banding in dark colors.
-Image persistence (like CRT burn-in but not permanent) takes only a few hours to come and over a day to go away, even with light grey images.
-Thing makes at least as much heat as my FE1250 (22" CRT)
-NTSC inputs look like complete ass

Does the 2405FPW improve on any of this?
 
dandragonrage said:
What are the differences between the 2005FPW and 2405FPW other than size/resolution? I have a 2005FPW hooked up via DVI to a 6600GT and the more I use it, the more I hate LCDs.

-There's some EXTREME banding in dark colors.
-Image persistence (like CRT burn-in but not permanent) takes only a few hours to come and over a day to go away, even with light grey images.
-Thing makes at least as much heat as my FE1250 (22" CRT)
-NTSC inputs look like complete ass

Does the 2405FPW improve on any of this?
Click to expand...

1. 2405 has a slighly higher quality panel then the 2005 but current LCD technology will produce banding until its replaced.
2. Huh?
3. 2405 puts out even more heat
4. No difference, same inputs same result. Garbage in, garbage out. Only way to get good NTSC display usage if use VGA or Component inputs, everything else will look like tash.
 
IceWind said:
2. Huh?
Click to expand...

Ever seen "burn-in" of your taskbar, or the control box (close,minimize,etc buttons)? That's called image persistence on an LCD, and it's not permanent, but it's annoying.
 
dandragonrage said:
Ever seen "burn-in" of your taskbar, or the control box (close,minimize,etc buttons)? That's called image persistence on an LCD, and it's not permanent, but it's annoying.
Click to expand...

Thats called "ghosting" in LCD terms and ALL LCD's will display this trait. How bad it is is all a matter of personal preference. You may be more sensative then others to this trait and may wanna stick with CRT's until SED displays come full swing in 2007, then it will be a thing of the past.
 
No, he is not talking about ghosting. Some LCDs are prone to a burn-in effect similar to old CRTs and the newer plasmas. It's called image persistence because in most cases it is not permanent. The 2005 fpws have many reports of this, but I haven't heard any such problems form the 2405.
 
wpeng said:
No, he is not talking about ghosting. Some LCDs are prone to a burn-in effect similar to old CRTs and the newer plasmas. It's called image persistence because in most cases it is not permanent. The 2005 fpws have many reports of this, but I haven't heard any such problems form the 2405.
Click to expand...

Ah woops, understood. Yes, the 2405 when I had it didn't have that problem.
 
you should have stuck with your 22" CRT

I have a 2405 at work, b/c its easy on the eyes.

But at home I have a 21" Trinitron for gaming.

The things you pointed out are general problems with ALL LCD's.
Some worse than others.

LCD's are not good at producing blacks (or different shades of dark blacks) Most end up being dark grey.

Ghosting is probably what you're talking about, I haven't heard of semi-permanent burn-ins before.

I find it hard to believe that a 20" wide flat screen puts out as much heat. Its probably more of a perceived fact as the foot print is condensed, so is the heat output. (IE: heat all at the top 20" x 1" thick area, instead of over a 20" x 17" deep area)

But overall heat should be less as its power consumption is lower, and LCD technology is newer and SHOULD run cooler.
 
You're probably right, Chris, but damn did it surprise me how much heat this puts out. I'm going to sell it and stick with my CRT.

And ghosting is not what I'm talking about. Ghosting is an effect of bad response time, which is one thing I did NOT have an issue with this monitor about.
 
dandragonrage said:
You're probably right, Chris, but damn did it surprise me how much heat this puts out. I'm going to sell it and stick with my CRT.

And ghosting is not what I'm talking about. Ghosting is an effect of bad response time, which is one thing I did NOT have an issue with this monitor about.
Click to expand...

If your getting burn ins with an LCD you've got a SERIOUSLY flawed panel.

All in all, I think the drawbacks of LCD are to much for your standards, which is fine. Stick with CRT's until SED comes full swing in 2007.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/593-1/close-encounters-of-the-third-kind-sed.html
 
dandragonrage said:
And ghosting is not what I'm talking about. Ghosting is an effect of bad response time, which is one thing I did NOT have an issue with this monitor about.
Click to expand...

I think you might have a messed up TFT. I've owned several 2005FPWs and none of them give out much heat at all : if I touch the one I'm using right now - and it has been on for several hours - it is in fact cool to the touch.

Also, none of the screens I have used have exhibited this "image persistance" effect, unless I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that remnants of images are left on the screen when you turn it off and take a while to disappear? This sounds a bit like image retention, and your LCD shouldn't be suffering from that. No modern LCD (within the last few years) that I've seen suffers from that, and all I can think of is the old pre-TFT LCDs that some (now really old) laptops and calculators used to use.

If I'm misunderstanding you and you're instead refering to "ghosting", that I apologise for the mixup. Otherwise, it really sounds like you have a duff 2005fpw.
 
No, not when I turn it off. But when I drop to desktop, I can see the control box in the upper right. It is a well known problem with LCDs called image persistence, though some monitors are worse about it than others.
 
Hmm, I don't know if I should hold out on getting the 2005fpw or going all the way for the 2405fpw. :D
 
dandragonrage said:
No, not when I turn it off. But when I drop to desktop, I can see the control box in the upper right. It is a well known problem with LCDs called image persistence, though some monitors are worse about it than others.
Click to expand...

I'm still having a hard time understanding what you mean. Do you mean you still see the minimize, maximize buttons from the window you just minimised? If so, that really ISN'T a well known problem with LCDs, at least, it hasn't been for several years now. I can assure you that every time I minimize or move a window about, it doesn't leave any "echo" of the image behind.

The one big issue with LCDs these days is refresh delay, which has all but practically caught up with CRTs now (<4ms LCDs). The 2005FPW isn't quite that fast, so there is still some lag, but we are talking milliseconds. Any image that you display on your screen and then take away should disappear within 0.016 seconds (according to spec at least).

It really does sound like you have a faulty TFT :p
 
No, it takes a few hours of stuff sitting there for it to persist there. Google LCD "image persistence" if you still don't understand. And I know other people with 2005FPWs that complain of this. For example, another acquaintance says the WoW menus persist on his 2005FPW.
 
dandragonrage said:
No, it takes a few hours of stuff sitting there for it to persist there. Google LCD "image persistence" if you still don't understand. And I know other people with 2005FPWs that complain of this. For example, another acquaintance says the WoW menus persist on his 2005FPW.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I already googled image persistance :), but I still haven't seen it on this screen. I also played WoW for some time, and never came across that problem. I probably had that menu bar along on the bottom sit there for at least 6 hours - longest session I'd permit myself! - and my screen was no worse off for it.

Perhaps some of these 2005FPWs are more susceptable than others?

EDIT: Also, in googling image persistence, I came across the fact that while CRTs don't suffer from it, they suffer from permanent "burn in" instead. Seems like you just can't win!
 
one of my 2005FPW's had image persistance so i returned it.

it also had some other pretty f'ed up problems, so i'm pretty sure its not normal at least for 2005FPW's.

the 2005FPW i have sitting in front of me doesn't have that problem.


backlight issues are what i'd be worried about :(
 
one thing i just noticed, SED still uses phosphor to produce light, won't it have burn-in problems just like plasma or older CRT's?
 
JonDo[H] said:
EDIT: Also, in googling image persistence, I came across the fact that while CRTs don't suffer from it, they suffer from permanent "burn in" instead. Seems like you just can't win!
Click to expand...

plasma also suffers from burn-in. The only technology that seems to be OK is DLP, but DLP sucks for computers, and there are no DLP computer monitors that I know of.

So yeah, pretty much every technology out there has substantial flaws. :/
 
I think the easiest way to explain the 'image burn' is say you load a game and on the initial black screen you can clearly see the outline of the 'Start' button and taskbar, and if you have been on a website, the tob bars of the app your using.....annoying as hell.

IMO you just got a dud. My first 2005fpw had the 'image burning' and bad back lighting, the second had a red line running thru the centre and even worse back lighting, the third i got yesterday is perfect so far, no backlighting probs AT ALL and no 'image burn' AT ALL.

Chuffed so far and the best tft I've owned, and I've owned a few....

Just get it replaced :D

Gotta say my Panny Viera plasma is over a year old and gets heavy use, especially from digital satellite which most programs have a 'red button' icon in one of the corners and so far, no screen burn at all.....also gets hammered with consoles, no issues. From what I've read, plasma's nowadays have features to stop this happening now unless, obvioulsy, it's running 24hrs a day on the same promo in a shop window.
 
Yup, I second Tigerblade and anasazi's opinions - you have a duff monitor. Send it back and get a replacement!
 
What about the 2405? What's the likelihood of this effect, I was considering buying one
 
ScHpAnKy said:
What about the 2405? What's the likelihood of this effect, I was considering buying one
Click to expand...


Go for it, if you get a dud, get a replacement....easy. You'll be happy u did :)
 
anasazi said:
one thing i just noticed, SED still uses phosphor to produce light, won't it have burn-in problems just like plasma or older CRT's?
Click to expand...

Its no different that the phosphor that current CRT"s uses and as long as you don't leave a static image sitting there for days on end, it wont' be a problem unless your stupid. Plasma's can't run a static image even for a few hours, thats what sucks about them.
 
IceWind said:
Plasma's can't run a static image even for a few hours, thats what sucks about them.
Click to expand...

Aren't they designed primarily as large T.V's? If so then that wouldn't happen, with there be moving images constantly and therefore negates your point. Altho like I said in an earlier thread, even if something is in one spot all the time (red dot's to go interective etc.) newer decent plasma's don't seem to be affected by this. Fact. Unless like I stated b4 it's a shop model with a promo video running in a loop 24/7.

Anyone that drops the amount of money for a decent plasma needs their head examining if they use it as a full time monitor anyways....
 
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