24" Acer $774 dlvd...vs...24" Samsung $1047 dlvd

thats the best price ive seen on the samsung, i havent seen it less than 1300 anywhere... but apparently it lags pretty bad. what are you getting it for, games?
 
Light1984 said:
thats the best price ive seen on the samsung, i havent seen it less than 1300 anywhere... but apparently it lags pretty bad. what are you getting it for, games?
Click to expand...
It's for Gaming.
I have 4400+x2 rig with WD-Raptor 10Krpm h/d, two 7900GT video cards in SLI.
I want to move up to 24" or bigger LCD but prefer under 30".
This Sammy 24 and Acer 24 are just the first of many I'm looking at.
You say the Sammy 24 "lags".
What do you think of the Acer 24? Is it a new monitor?
Also, what about the new Benq 24" that has "HDMI" (whatever the heck that is).
Thanks in advance for all opinions..
 
honestly, i cant talk from experience on either of the monitors. i was thinking about getting the 244t, but from the reviews and research ive done, alot of people say it has input lag, which is totally different from pixel response. so even though it has i think 8ms if i recall correctly, with the input lag, its like 20-30ms. there was a thread where someone had it hooked up and a crt at the same time running one of those time demo things. not sure exactly. someone correct me if im wrong on the lag thing, i think i described it correctly. my vote as of now is for the nec 20wgx2, just waiting for it to drop below the 500 mark, then im all over it ;)


edit: w00t found the thread. damn thing was on page 21, read through this before you make any decisions

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1026393

there is pics at the bottom of the first post with the crt and 244t
 
Some things that people don't really consider but is pretty important for big ticket purchases is the warranty. I know samsung offers 3 year replacement warranty, which is really pretty decent. No idea what acer's is like, might want to check that out. No point saving $300 only to have it die on you in 18 months.
 
Light1984 said:
honestly, i cant talk from experience on either of the monitors. i was thinking about getting the 244t, but from the reviews and research ive done, alot of people say it has input lag, which is totally different from pixel response. so even though it has i think 8ms if i recall correctly, with the input lag, its like 20-30ms. there was a thread where someone had it hooked up and a crt at the same time running one of those time demo things. not sure exactly. someone correct me if im wrong on the lag thing, i think i described it correctly. my vote as of now is for the nec 20wgx2, just waiting for it to drop below the 500 mark, then im all over it ;)


edit: w00t found the thread. damn thing was on page 21, read through this before you make any decisions

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1026393

there is pics at the bottom of the first post with the crt and 244t
Click to expand...
Light, thanx On page1 of that thread, Acer and Sammy were reported to have iunacceptable nput lag when tested.
(The guy with the digital camera was a sharp-thinking programmer. An impressive original test).
I'm now considering other monitors. Looking now for more info on 2 new 24" models from HP and Benq
 
elleana said:
Some things that people don't really consider but is pretty important for big ticket purchases is the warranty. I know samsung offers 3 year replacement warranty, which is really pretty decent. No idea what acer's is like, might want to check that out. No point saving $300 only to have it die on you in 18 months.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the caution. Good advice.
Now that the 24" Samsung and 24" Acer are out of the running, I'll start looking hard at the 24" Benq.
Do you know of any other 24" models worth considering?
 
You really should look at the 23" S-IPS panels: true 8bit color, fast response times, excelent contrast ratios, no input lag, sharper dot pitch, better pixel waranties. These panels are made by Philips, who has marketed the latest version of their panel under their Philips Brilliance name plate.

Check out these threads:

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4098

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4904

Also, take a look at all the 23" monitors on this site: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Master_Monitors_List

Look for any that say S-IPS style panel. These are all the philips panels, but some of them are newer versions. The Brilliance is the fastest resposne times and I can tell you from personal experience that it has no perceivable input lag.

These are the best true 8bit screens for gaming that are currently prodiced in the 1920x1200 native 23-24" size panels IMHO.

Let us know what you choose!

JT
 
JtKing...thanx for excellent detailed info; you really know how to search..
I went to your links, read all and totally agree "S-IPS is way to go".
I'm after 24" size.
Do you know if HP's brand new 24" LCD is S-IPS ?
HP statement:"this new monitor presently available only at HP web store".
$868
500 nits
1000 contrast.
6ms /g/g
thanx.
 
This was discussed in another post somewhere and I believe that it was resolved that it was another samsung produced PVA panel. They are beautiful panels and have excellent color, but if you are mainly jsut looking for a gaming panel I think they are really not the way to go. There are a couple variants on this panel, and the input lag problem seems related to the higher pixel response times, so you might actually be better off with a slower response time panel for gaming. so long as you are at least 16ms bwb, 12ms gtg you are problably goign to be fine for most gaming assuming you dont have the input lag.

That being said,I think I recall in another thread that you already have a 23" IPS panel??? Was it the HP L2535? If so, I cant even begin to imagine why you want a new panel. The extra inch isnt all that much %-wise and you are going to have a smudgier (sic) look to it with the larger dot pitch (.27 some-odd compared to .25 some-odd). True the colors might be slightly better (debatable) and blacks slightly darker (debatable) but riskign the common input lag and occasional ghosting/smearing that the 24" panels have certainly doesnt seem worth it IMHO.

Of course if you are something of an irrational HP hater (I am), the best panel is still the philips branded one.

Plus, am I recalling correctly that the new HP 24" doesnt have the component ins? Can't really imagine getting it if it has less inputs, no HDCP (not that I think this is any great loss), input lag potential, blurrier text, etc, etc, etc...

What you really need is a 26" S-IPS panel if you are tryign to go bigger for larger text or whatnot. rumor has it there will be one in the next 3-6 months....

now if this is a second monitor (like in my case for wifey who wants her own widescreen) and you are lookign to upgrade, I think you are too early. you need a good 6 months to have any apreciably better options than the panel you already have, IMHO.

Good luck, and let us know what you are goign to do!

JT
 
JT,
So you recommend the Philips 230WP7NS? Right now, Im leaning towards the NEC, but the price is just rediculous, 640 currently is the lowest ive seen it.
 
Light,

After reading and looking and reading and looking I chose the Philips Brilliance 230wp7ns/27...

The reasons were as follows (in no particular order):

1. I do a lot with text (spreadsheets, tax software, word, forums, web, outlook) and I wanted the sharper text you get on the finer dot pitch
2. I do a lot of photography looking (not editing) so I wanted a true 8bit panel
3. I do a lot of 3d gaming (WOW, Oblivion, BF2, Eve Online, FEAR) so I wanted solid response times and no input lag
4. I dont particularly want to make HP/compac any richer due to past bad experiences with them
5. I wanted the best pixel replacement policy I could find
6. I had a budget of about $1000usd
7. I wanted something in stock (i.e. not wait 1-3 months)

To me the Philips 230wp7ns represented the best collection of compromises.

Generally speaking the 23" IPS panels are very highly regarded - you virtually NEVER see a bad review of them unless its truly a bad panel that is covered under warantee. They have solid , if not spectacular color output, they are a true 8bit panel, and their response times are good enoguh that no one complains about ghosting in real time 3d rendering or full motion video.

To some degree we are quibbling about all these panels. If you are moving from an old 4:3 CRT then nearly anything here is going to rock your socks, IMHO. Input lag is a strange phenomenon that is measurable and bothers some people more than others. I have no idea if I would be bothered by an extra 20-40ms of lag between when I move the mouse and something happens on the screen, but I fear I would hate it and I am unwilling to pay a 15% restocking fee for a barely understood phenomenon that is not considered a true bug. 15-30ms lag on a good panel is bad enough; 55-70ms lag would suck.

If I never played realtime renedered 3d games, I probably could care less. The current PVA panels from samsung have (by all reports) excelletn color and decent response times. That means you will get little to no ghosting, and beautiful full motion video with near professional level color for color correction and photoediting if you wanted.

The chance of input lag and the relatively lower level of fit and finish with corespondingly high prices coupled with the (somewhat) less sharp text do not seem worth it to me. In their search for ever faster published response times in an 8bit panel Ithink they pushed their overdrive technology a bit too far. Its strictly my opinion.

In the end I would evaluate my Philips panel as such:

Pros:
* Super sharp text and lines
* 8 bit panel color with no banding
* excelent pixel replacement warantee
* great response times for an 8-bit IPS panel (12ms bwb, 6-8ms gtg)
* solid contrast ratio and brightness
* very good fit and finish
* most recent panel technology

Cons
* No component in or HDCP support
* not quite professional level color/contrast/blacks
* not available through typical retail outlets
* not cheap (~950-1k USD)

Ultimately I put my money where my mouth was and ordered the Philips panel. No dead pixels, beautiful color (soooo much better than my 19" TN-film 6-bit panel), outstanding screen real estate, and all the stuff I said up there. Would I have been jsut as happy with a 24" panel. I dont think so. I LOVE the razor sharp text and if I want it bigger, I just move the monitor close enough where it fills my view :)

In your price range? I have NO idea. At first I was goign to go with a 20-21" 1600x1050 panel, but I am happier that I spent the extra money. My advice? If you are goign to upgrade your graphics card anythime in the next 6 months, hold out for a good 23" IPS panel for all around entertainment purposes (i.e. gaming and video) along with (IMHO) unsurpassed text performance. 1920x1200 on a panel that is big enough to display it is FANTASTIC.

hope this helps!

JT
 
the new HP 24" is a PVA. As far as I know no IPS panels are in 24" only 23". I personally would prefer the 23" tho as the IPS pitch is .258 while the 24" PVAs are .27. It basically means a clearer/sharper image even tho u lose a measely 1 inch.
 
jtking said:
This was discussed in another post somewhere and I believe that it was resolved that it was another samsung produced PVA panel.Good luck, and let us know what you are goign to do!
JT
Click to expand...
Yes, I want a bigger S-IPS panel than my present fine 23" HPL2335. A shiny new 24" S-IPS monitor "smelling nice and looking perky" will fit just nicely into the space available for it.
An aside....
If I understand you correctly, some people on web say the new 24" HP is a "non-IPS" panel.
Their confidence surprises me for 2 reasons:
Since the HP 23" is S-IPS, it's more logical to assume its successor is also and technical-progress accounts speed boost specs. And secondly how can they be confident what's inside the 24" when HP's vendors don't even have it yet? For myself, I've not been able to shake out of HP's bleary-eyed Sales staff wether it's PVA or IPS.
Thanks, but I'll not wait for 26", 27" panels having vague delivery dates.
A 1" DIAGONAL boost from 23 to 24 is NOT an insignificant boost in size, for the panel is increased in ALL dimensions. True, its not "cost-effictive" if one is on a budget but within reason, I'm not.
If you come across officialanswer will you post it?
Thanks a lot for all your help. :D
.
 
Zak said:
If I understand you correctly, some people on web say the new 24" HP is a "non-IPS" panel.
Their confidence surprises me...
Click to expand...

If I understand your post, you're basically saying that you're not sure why people believe the HP 24" can't be IPS, since no one knows for sure. Well, there are several reasons why it's extremely likely to be to be anything BUT IPS.

* HP doesn't make LCD panels, so they buy whatever they want, just like Dell. They have no reason to only use one type of panel technology.

* There are no known raw 24" S-IPS panels for anyone to create into a monitor, so it would be unlikely to have one magically appear. Especially since monitor companies that *make* IPS panels don't offer one. There are 23", and I believe someone has posted specs for a 26" (which has yet to be integrated into a monitor).

* Specs for new generation 23" S-IPS panels (like the one in the Philips) show an improvement on previous 23" panels as used in the 2335, but they're not up to PVA panel-level specs, as the 24" HP shows.

* The specs for the 24" HP mimic currently available PVA panels from other monitor companies, so I personally see no reason to believe that HP is using anything but the same 24" panel as those other companies.

So if you really want a bigger monitor, you're going to have to be one of the first to figure out exactly how much input lag the new HP has, settle for a known S-PVA panel, take a gamble on the M-PVA used in the BenQ 24", go for the Dell 30", or wait for someone to come out with a 26" S-IPS.
 
Zak, Sunfox is right. There are no known 24" IPS panels being made. Bear in mind that Philips *makes* all IPS panels for everyone. Their brand name doesnt have the same cache nor the market penetration that Apple, sony and HP do, but they are the ones who make the panels. In other words, if philips doesnt make it, it doesnt exist in IPS.

That being said, philips could (and has) make a panel that someone else uses in a monitor before philips got around to developing a retail monitor with the same panel. It is HIGHLY unlikely that this 24" panel is one. the 23"/24" market is esentially the same, and philips has banked on the lower dot pitch being a selling point for their panels. They jsut plain look sharper. While there would potentially be a market ot get into at a larger panel size, I think it would be quite shocking if they chose to overlap with a whole new generation of panel.

Also, IPS panels just flat out dont come with 1000:1 constrast ratios. The *best* large format IPS panel is the brilliance panel (and others) with 500:1.

Philips specs are available online if you look hard enough for their raw panels (manufacturer targeted web pages), and there has never been a 24" panel there (I've looked).

I strongly suspect that the 26" IPS is not a pipe dream and will get turned into a (very expensive) S-IPS monitor in the next 3-6 months.

If you want to give the samsung 24" panels a shot, by all means do so. Many reviewers who were just looking at color and contrast love it. If you do decide to go to the new HP 24" (which I would bet serious money is a PVA panel), then by all means post here and on widescreengaming forums what you think!

Good luck, and let us know!

JT
 
Or u could simply get a LCD with the 24" Samsung PVA that doesnt use an overdrive hence no input lag like the one used in the Eizo CE240W. Its factory calibrated and includes the software if u want to use it with a spyder2 or eyeone. It costs a bit more but if i could disable the overdrive on my 244T to get rid of the input lag i would. The Eizo's response time is 16ms but the guy said he noticed no ghosting or input lag. And in my opinion, its easier to game with ghosting than it is input lag. Heres a link to some impressions/review on the Eizo. http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4898
 
Ricey, thats an interesting idea. I said something quite similar to someone else who was considering that panel and lord knows you would get excellent color and blacks with that Eizo panel. The only review I read on the panel was pretty bad where full-motion video was concerned but I wonder if a casual user would not be bothered as much as a reviewer comparing it to an IPS panel.

I havent looked it up but isnt the Eizo like REAL $$$?

JT
 
a couple of bad reviews from the same couple of users does not mean its a bad monitor. people go to forums to complain and moan, extremely few will actually register just to post a smooth experience unless you're a geek like most of us here.

I got worried from reading the bad reviews by the same couple of people right after I purchased the the 244t thinking its gonna be shit because I play games like GRAW and BF2 which does not condone input lags AND thats using the g7 wireless mouse. well, guess what, I got it back in march in silver color, AWESOME build quality, no flex, not heavy, no input lag, no stuttering, nothing, just perfecto! the colors and saturation and contrast were just beautiful and everything was just super sharp, I could not be happier even though I paid 1300 which is almost twice as much as the 24" dell that I was thinking about.

when everyone talks about the 244t like its the plague, you have to realize very few people on here actually has/had the 244t, they just read the 1 or 2 bad reviews and then chastized the sammy as a crappy product which it is not. every single company out there will have bad products or a bad batch, but it doesn't mean its ALL crap. There are also people out there that will not be satisfied until they FIND a fault with something because they live by the motto "if it ain't broken, tweak it til its broken." don't mean to rant here but it just pisses me off to see people bash something they no experience with.

Almost 3 months into using it I noticed a yellow streak about an inch wide running from top to bottom, called sammy up, did some testing to make sure its the monitor and not my gfx card, 2 mins later said he'll send me a brand new unit to replace this one (if purchased over 90 days it would be a refurb) with no hassle. I said ok, 2 days later, called me saying no unit in stock, they can wait, or have me fax my invoice and they'll refund me the full amount including the shipping that I paid which comes out to 1350! how many other companies will give you your money back when you didn't even buy it from them?

as much as I like the monitor for games and web surfing, it sucked for watching live tv, but thats all computer lcds. so I opted for the full refund and bought myself a 32" sammy lcd tv instead, so I go a ridiculous upgrade for free and make a few bucks out of it! just my own experience with samsung if you do decide to go for the 244t, its a GREAT MONITOR.
 
I agree the 244T is a great monitor. I still use it as my main LCD and for watching the occasional tv and dvd and the quality is pretty good. The only thing i fault it is that i notice the input lag while i play CS 1.6 and since im still an avid player who scrims now and then i have to switch to my old 17" Viewsonic which is a TN panel to play. But the other games I play like RPGs and strategy the 244T is awesome, love the resolution. Video wise there is slight banding while i watch tv and noise but thats to be expected from a monitor.

And yah, most eizo's are costly, the CE240W is about 1700 bucks. Though with the price premium u do get a lot of extras that other companies dont give u like factory adjusted calibration, 14-bit color processing, their own designed stand that i heard is really good, and 5 year warranty with 3 year backlight. I guess it all depends on what your looking for and if u can justify the price with the extras. And having a lot of money to spare wouldnt hurt either :p
 
Ricey said:
I agree the 244T is a great monitor. I still use it as my main LCD and for watching the occasional tv and dvd and the quality is pretty good. The only thing i fault it is that i notice the input lag while i play CS 1.6 and since im still an avid player who scrims now and then i have to switch to my old 17" Viewsonic which is a TN panel to play. But the other games I play like RPGs and strategy the 244T is awesome, love the resolution. Video wise there is slight banding while i watch tv and noise but thats to be expected from a monitor.

And yah, most eizo's are costly, the CE240W is about 1700 bucks. Though with the price premium u do get a lot of extras that other companies dont give u like factory adjusted calibration, 14-bit color processing, their own designed stand that i heard is really good, and 5 year warranty with 3 year backlight. I guess it all depends on what your looking for and if u can justify the price with the extras.
Click to expand...

with watching tv there will def. be banding from a computer monitor. I loved it though and wish I still had it. but lcdtv is much better for watching tvs. I must be the only one that didn't experience any input lags.
 
TO: Outrigger, Eleana, Jtking, Ricey, Light, Sunfox....
It has been a nice talk and I thank you for your valuable input.
From reading all your posts (and going to all sources you pointed me to) I reached conclusion HP-24 is not IPS panel and an -Email from Editor of TFTtechnology closed the matter with "..sad to tell you this, but HP-24 is not S-IPS"
OK, tthat ends it:
Final questions (if anyone cares to answer).....

1) ... The new DELL 27" 2707 :
When will it be out?
Will it eliminates the dreaded "input lag" problem?
Will it use S-IPS or S-PVA panel?
All opinions, links, data, most welcome.

2)... An S-IPS Panel BIGGER THAN 23" :
Are the rumors of a "new big panel" fact or wishful-thinking?
When the heck will we see it? What's the delay?
All opinions, links, data, most welcome.
 
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