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2405FPW has no support for HD
- Thread starter Ummagumma
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Ummagumma said:I have seen no definite answer to this anywhere yetHave anyone tried with both the vga and the components and gotten the same sharpness in the picture?
according to this quote at wsgf by maherie (who works at dell), I would assume that it does support HD but not "officially"
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1971&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
My 2405FPW doesn't even support it unofficially. http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028649958&postcount=104magnetik said:
Any conclution to this? Is it supersampled 480p http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1971&start=50 or is it true 720p? Can anyone compare visually (pics seems to be bad) to a corresponding game found here: http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/
Can you visually compare your games to the hi-res screenshots above?
They are in jpeg quality, so they are not optimal. Still, they are true 720p and should look sharper then upscaled/supersampled 480p. It would be nice to hear your verdict!
edit:
There is a dramatic difference between supersampled 480p and 480p too, you see...
They are in jpeg quality, so they are not optimal. Still, they are true 720p and should look sharper then upscaled/supersampled 480p. It would be nice to hear your verdict!
edit:
There is a dramatic difference between supersampled 480p and 480p too, you see...
My work blocks most sites that have to do with gaming so I can't access those sites.
If the 2405 only supports 480p then there would no noticable difference when switching the 360 to 720p or 1080i. Based on the threads over at WSG and AV forums, I think that most would agree that the picture is truely 720p/1080i and not just upscaled 480p.
If the 2405 only supports 480p then there would no noticable difference when switching the 360 to 720p or 1080i. Based on the threads over at WSG and AV forums, I think that most would agree that the picture is truely 720p/1080i and not just upscaled 480p.
ok, I just got off the phone with Dell monitor support group.
My question was this: Does the 2405 support true HD images through component (720p/1080i) and not just upscaled 480p.
After a lengthy on hold period, the Dell rep came back and assured me that the 2405 does infact support true HD through component.
The dell rep that replied through an email at the widescreengaming forums was mistaken about the 2405.
My question was this: Does the 2405 support true HD images through component (720p/1080i) and not just upscaled 480p.
After a lengthy on hold period, the Dell rep came back and assured me that the 2405 does infact support true HD through component.
The dell rep that replied through an email at the widescreengaming forums was mistaken about the 2405.
Thank you for calling. I appreciated that. But could it be that the Dell reps were feeding you with bull? I mean, the guy at WSGF who works in Dell got even 2 messages. One saying it don't support it and another saying it supports it, but not officially...
Dell supports components input, but what does this mean :
That they have a resolution support cap of 480p (kind of like the initial mail)? What kind of support do they talk about here? That they will not answer their customers about resolutions above 480p? If components break, don't they have to support it anyway? Sounds like they are feeding him with bull....
And another thing is Johns pictures: http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028780626&postcount=176
I have seen COD 2 on a display which has a native resolution of 1080i and its razor sharp. Nothing like the jaggies here and the muddy barbed wires on the left. Anyone can see that the barbed wires on the VGA picture has more detail and better geometry. If this is the components input picture that other users get, then I can understand Dell not wanting to support any resolutions above 480p...
I appreciate the efforts people have made in trying to figure this out, but I can't help but wonder that the 2405fpw is capped at 480p and not only the support of it...
People who have tried 1080i on other screens have experienced this:
Its about how the jaggies that were at 1080i on the 2405fpw disappeared when he tried it on another screen and the picture became sharp as it should... How can this happen if the 2405fpw supports 1080i, unless it doesn't support 1080i that is...?
edit: Have anyone else here seen COD 2 on a screen that officially support 1080i? If so, did YOU see jaggies like that or a razor sharp image?
Dell supports components input, but what does this mean
:http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1971&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
That they have a resolution support cap of 480p (kind of like the initial mail)? What kind of support do they talk about here? That they will not answer their customers about resolutions above 480p? If components break, don't they have to support it anyway? Sounds like they are feeding him with bull....
And another thing is Johns pictures: http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028780626&postcount=176
I have seen COD 2 on a display which has a native resolution of 1080i and its razor sharp. Nothing like the jaggies here and the muddy barbed wires on the left. Anyone can see that the barbed wires on the VGA picture has more detail and better geometry. If this is the components input picture that other users get, then I can understand Dell not wanting to support any resolutions above 480p...
I appreciate the efforts people have made in trying to figure this out, but I can't help but wonder that the 2405fpw is capped at 480p and not only the support of it...
People who have tried 1080i on other screens have experienced this:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2111
Its about how the jaggies that were at 1080i on the 2405fpw disappeared when he tried it on another screen and the picture became sharp as it should... How can this happen if the 2405fpw supports 1080i, unless it doesn't support 1080i that is...?
edit: Have anyone else here seen COD 2 on a screen that officially support 1080i? If so, did YOU see jaggies like that or a razor sharp image?
Doesn't look like the 2405fpw has support for HD through components unless there are completely different revisions of the 2405fpws out there. Johns latest picture shows also that the VGA resolution is MUCH higher then the components resolution. I don't think anyone can disagree upon that when looking at his newest pictures: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=973982&page=11 at least not disagree that the pictures from VGA looks like they are of a much higher resolution...
I haven't run that test, but I can assure you that the 2405 supports HD over component. I'm using it right now as my HDTV using an HD set top box. It's a night and day difference over SD at 1080i or 720p. I can pretty much guarantee it's not upscaled. The OSD confirms what I'm seeing on screen as other people have pointed out.
Adrian
Adrian
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asmielia said:
you are the only other person that I know of that also has an HD set top box connected to a 2405.. you also confirm what I have experienced. maybe the xbox360 and "it's" component out support is the issue. I dunno. or maybe there are different revisions of the 2405?
asmielia said:
And so does Magnetik.
It puzzles me a bit that both of you claim that the output of your HD set top box is true HD. I want to believe you and hope that its a matter of revisions or compatibility with the xbox, not incompatibility with HD. I don't think any of us works in the publicity department of Dell or are hardcore !!!!!!s of any sort and that the main thing is to get to the truth. This will matter for many and especially when it comes to guidence. I'd like to ask a couple of questions if you don't mind
:1. Does Johns pictures look like the 2405fpw support HD through components?
2. Is the OSD showing the input of the 2405fpw or the output?
3. When it comes to movies and tv, does the quality of the source matter when it comes to the output of the screen?
4. If you downscale HD material to SD resolution, would it a) look the same or b) be sharper or c) be less sharp? (edit: as original SD content)
5. Do the channels broadcast the same quality of the SD resolutions as the HD resolutions (besides the difference in resolution)? Compression quality, signal strenght, is one digital and one analog?, framerate etc...
6. Does DVD`s look the same as broadcasts of the same resolutions if source doesn't matter?
Maybe there are different revisions with different electronics out there or maybe the xbox 360(and also the PS2 from what I have read) isn't quite compatible with the 2405fpw?
I understand your skepticism, however, I'm 100% sure that my 2405 is outputting true HD through component.
No they don't. However, I thought I remember someone else saying they tried the same test on their HDTV and it also didn't work. I don't have a 360, so I can't tell you anything about that.
It's obviously referring to the input. The output entirely depends on whether you're doing any scaling. I have it set to aspect ratio scaling, so a 480i/p input will have black bars on the sides. 720p and 1080i have thin black bars on the top and bottom.
Ummm, yes? I don't know what you mean. Of course the quality of the source matters.
Absolutely, downscaled material looks much worse. I can set my STB to output whatever I want. The monitor supports it all. 1080i content looks much worse at 480p, and less worse at 720p. It looks awesome at 1080i. Trust me, it's not SD.
I guess. I don't know, it's tough to tell ignoring resolution. SD channels look ok. Let me put it this way. 1080i content downscaled to 480p looks worse than 480i content upscaled to 1080i. True 1080i content blows them both out of the water.
I don't have any DVDs on hand. However, I have several HDTV encoded episodes of the Office, which I'm guessing were taken from a 1080i source and encoded at 960x528 which is significantly better than 480p. They look good, but I would definitely say not as crisp as watching 1080i TV.
I seriously doubt it's an incompatibility with the 2405. It's simply outputting a standard format, such as 1080i. Again, I don't have a 360, so I couldn't tell you what those people are saying.
One more thing. If I turn off scaling altogether, 480i/480p/720p content appears in an appropriately sized box. Why on Earth would the 2405 downscale incoming content to 480p, only to upscale it again before displaying it. It makes no sense.
Anyway, I'm 100% certain that this monitor supports 720p and 1080i. I'll try and get some pictures up, but it might be hard to show.
Adrian
Ummagumma said:
No they don't. However, I thought I remember someone else saying they tried the same test on their HDTV and it also didn't work. I don't have a 360, so I can't tell you anything about that.
Ummagumma said:
It's obviously referring to the input. The output entirely depends on whether you're doing any scaling. I have it set to aspect ratio scaling, so a 480i/p input will have black bars on the sides. 720p and 1080i have thin black bars on the top and bottom.
Ummagumma said:
Ummm, yes? I don't know what you mean. Of course the quality of the source matters.
Ummagumma said:
Absolutely, downscaled material looks much worse. I can set my STB to output whatever I want. The monitor supports it all. 1080i content looks much worse at 480p, and less worse at 720p. It looks awesome at 1080i. Trust me, it's not SD.
Ummagumma said:
I guess. I don't know, it's tough to tell ignoring resolution. SD channels look ok. Let me put it this way. 1080i content downscaled to 480p looks worse than 480i content upscaled to 1080i. True 1080i content blows them both out of the water.
Ummagumma said:
I don't have any DVDs on hand. However, I have several HDTV encoded episodes of the Office, which I'm guessing were taken from a 1080i source and encoded at 960x528 which is significantly better than 480p. They look good, but I would definitely say not as crisp as watching 1080i TV.
Ummagumma said:Maybe there are different revisions with different electronics out there or maybe the xbox 360(and also the PS2 from what I have read) isn't quite compatible with the 2405fpw?
I seriously doubt it's an incompatibility with the 2405. It's simply outputting a standard format, such as 1080i. Again, I don't have a 360, so I couldn't tell you what those people are saying.
One more thing. If I turn off scaling altogether, 480i/480p/720p content appears in an appropriately sized box. Why on Earth would the 2405 downscale incoming content to 480p, only to upscale it again before displaying it. It makes no sense.
Anyway, I'm 100% certain that this monitor supports 720p and 1080i. I'll try and get some pictures up, but it might be hard to show.
Adrian
When I switch the scaling mode to 1:1 I get the same thing, with the correct image size being shown. Nevertheless, the image quality remains the same - it's just bigger.asmielia said:
There is no doubt that something is going on that affects the quality of the image above 480p. When you're viewing video it's much harder to notice, but when you're playing a game it's very obvious indeed. I haven't seen anyone post a close up of an X360 game on the 2405FPW that looks like it's high def, except for when the VGA cable is used.
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another thing with HD is that you can't get a very good feel for HD by taking a picture of the screen. When pausing the screen, you get HD compression artifacts that that you normally do not notice watching video. (which is quite common with HD broadcasts) and since the best HD content is broadcast sports.. this also makes it hard to get a good shot.
I would say that you notice the biggest difference by watching actual HD broadcasts. A good example would be Monday Night Football. If anyone has looked into a crowd during a broadcast of MNF on a true HD set will know what I am talking about. You can make out distinct details that you normally wouldn't get with 480p. Also details with the main content, like vividness, crispness of facial features, sweat, etc. Once you see truely pristine HD content for the first time, you know there is a difference.. you don't ask yourself if it's really HD or not. (unless it's a bad broadcast)
I don't know if there is some issue with games or the implementation of x360's component out since I don't have one... I am speaking directly from experience with my set top HD box.
I would say that you notice the biggest difference by watching actual HD broadcasts. A good example would be Monday Night Football. If anyone has looked into a crowd during a broadcast of MNF on a true HD set will know what I am talking about. You can make out distinct details that you normally wouldn't get with 480p. Also details with the main content, like vividness, crispness of facial features, sweat, etc. Once you see truely pristine HD content for the first time, you know there is a difference.. you don't ask yourself if it's really HD or not. (unless it's a bad broadcast)
I don't know if there is some issue with games or the implementation of x360's component out since I don't have one... I am speaking directly from experience with my set top HD box.
I couldn't have said it better myself magnetik. John, I understand you wanting to get to the bottom of your 360 issue, but trust us on this one: The 2405 is fully HD capable.
I took some shots with a 2 megapixel camera. They look OK, but they really don't do the display justice. And I have nowhere to host them. John, next time you're in Canada, swing by my place and have a look for yourself
It's too bad Europe is so far behind in HD broadcasts, it's really a magnificent difference. I have trouble going back to SD now.
Adrian
I took some shots with a 2 megapixel camera. They look OK, but they really don't do the display justice. And I have nowhere to host them. John, next time you're in Canada, swing by my place and have a look for yourself
It's too bad Europe is so far behind in HD broadcasts, it's really a magnificent difference. I have trouble going back to SD now.
Adrian
Let's say you have a games console that produces a flawless image on 99% of high definition displays, and a poor image on the other 1%. Are you suggesting that the flaw lies with the console, rather than the 1% of HD displays that produce a poor quality image? An interesting approach, although I don't understand the logic behind it.asmielia said:
You seem to have a 2405FPW that supports HD. That's great, I couldn't be happier for you. However, this doesn't qualify you to dismiss all of the evidence out there that suggests there may be a problem. (There's quite a lot of it.)
480p/720p/1080i/VGA Xbox 360 comparisons - http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028803106&postcount=212
PS2 problems reported - http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028803187&postcount=214
A stickied thread on the topic on WSGF - http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1971
X360 comparisons between the 2405FPW and another HD display - http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028802582&postcount=211
Quote from Dell employee: "I've been talking with out tech support and no, it does not support HD."
Dell's stance: They're not supporting HD over component with the 2405FPW.
More screenshots showing that CoD2 at 1080i clearly isn't HD - http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028780626&postcount=176
Narnia trailer: http://www.weavo.net/x360/narnia.jpg
It seems that you must be in the minority of 2405FPW users who have a fully functioning high definition component input. I'd be very interested to see what a 1080i PS2 or X360 image looks like on your display. (Have you got a friend with a 360, by any chance?)
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playing devils advocate here.. there has been conflicting information both ways..
and this from the genesis gm1601 scaler docs:
Sun looks like it also uses the same gm1601 scaler...
Sun Designs Genesis Microchip's gm1601 Video Display Controller Into New WUXGA LCD Monitor
another manufacturer also using the gm1601
Source
Samsung looks like it uses the same scaler in some of it's flagship LCD HDTV's.
Samsung Selects Genesis Microchip's gm1601 and FLI2310 Controller Combination for
New 46-inch and 57-inch LCD TVs
as far as the PS2.. i would take comparison's with that platform with a grain of salt...
especially with GT4.. they definitely had issues with the previous GT series.. even though
jaggies were reduced with GT4
Source
here are a couple pics I took at 480p and at 1080i... keep in mind this is still a digital
camera picture of an lcd screen. Pics don't really do 1080i justice.
480p
http://d58.yousendit.com/F/3G865UXZLDRI537AIR4DROMIMG/P1010018.JPG
1080i
http://d58.yousendit.com/E/0X1PGK31U20OO1M5RD4BOY9VGL/P1010008.JPG
one question I have though is regarding anti aliasing on the x360.. is it configurable
through the console? If so.. when you turn it off, does jaggies look worse on both
vga "and" component? Does AA works the same over both component and
vga.. basically wondering if they have the same output path. (I may be reaching for straws here.)
and this from the genesis gm1601 scaler docs:
Sun looks like it also uses the same gm1601 scaler...
Sun Designs Genesis Microchip's gm1601 Video Display Controller Into New WUXGA LCD Monitor
another manufacturer also using the gm1601
Source
Samsung looks like it uses the same scaler in some of it's flagship LCD HDTV's.
Samsung Selects Genesis Microchip's gm1601 and FLI2310 Controller Combination for
New 46-inch and 57-inch LCD TVs
as far as the PS2.. i would take comparison's with that platform with a grain of salt...
especially with GT4.. they definitely had issues with the previous GT series.. even though
jaggies were reduced with GT4
Source
here are a couple pics I took at 480p and at 1080i... keep in mind this is still a digital
camera picture of an lcd screen. Pics don't really do 1080i justice.
480p
http://d58.yousendit.com/F/3G865UXZLDRI537AIR4DROMIMG/P1010018.JPG
1080i
http://d58.yousendit.com/E/0X1PGK31U20OO1M5RD4BOY9VGL/P1010008.JPG
one question I have though is regarding anti aliasing on the x360.. is it configurable
through the console? If so.. when you turn it off, does jaggies look worse on both
vga "and" component? Does AA works the same over both component and
vga.. basically wondering if they have the same output path. (I may be reaching for straws here.)
No, you are not playing devils advocate here. You managed to get out some good points.
From Tamlin at WSGF:
All the boards uses extra chips for video inputs. Here you can see boards with genesis that also uses external chips for video decoding: link
When it comes to the HDtv pictures, I think I'd have to take your word on that one. I just compared to a file I have from HDTV on my computer that has been downscaled to 624x352 and actually looked better. I don't think your pictures do justice either. It depends so much upon signal source too and thats the beauty with the xbox, since it the display source is "fixed".
From Tamlin at WSGF:
All the boards uses extra chips for video inputs. Here you can see boards with genesis that also uses external chips for video decoding: link
When it comes to the HDtv pictures, I think I'd have to take your word on that one.
I just compared to a file I have from HDTV on my computer that has been downscaled to 624x352 and actually looked better. I don't think your pictures do justice either. It depends so much upon signal source too and thats the beauty with the xbox, since it the display source is "fixed". The thing is if the Dell 24" does not support 1080i through component, nothing will come up at all if it encounters a 1080i signal input. Irrespective of the source Xbox360 is using and whatever scaling method it uses internally, its output, when set at 1080i, is 1080i. If a display does not support 1080i, nothing will show up at all.
The quality does vary with different games. Ridge Racer 6 certainly looks better on my Plasma because of its color (with 68 billion colors compared to a monitor's 16.7 million). Also jaggies are more noticeable on 1080i on Dell 24", but that is because of the higher resolution (compared to my Plasma's 1024X1024). You would understand what I mean when you have played PS2 480i games on a conventional CRT TV without HT and then on any HD display or computer monitor - you see much smoother edges and fewer jaggies on the conventional CRT.
However, when you play Dead or Alive 4 on XBOX360, it is another world. The jaggies are still noticeable but when you try 1080i and then go back to 480p you won't be able to accept 480p at all.
The quality does vary with different games. Ridge Racer 6 certainly looks better on my Plasma because of its color (with 68 billion colors compared to a monitor's 16.7 million). Also jaggies are more noticeable on 1080i on Dell 24", but that is because of the higher resolution (compared to my Plasma's 1024X1024). You would understand what I mean when you have played PS2 480i games on a conventional CRT TV without HT and then on any HD display or computer monitor - you see much smoother edges and fewer jaggies on the conventional CRT.
However, when you play Dead or Alive 4 on XBOX360, it is another world. The jaggies are still noticeable but when you try 1080i and then go back to 480p you won't be able to accept 480p at all.
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"upscaling" by way of these "digital format converters" from what I understand only works over a digital video path. Which is why you don't seen any "upscaling" dvd players, for example, that "upscale" over component input (they are all DVI). (unless, of course, some were released since I looked at them last) That could be the primary difference here. Could it be that all the boards that require the use of these support chips to upscale are speaking by way of DVI? I can't seem to find any mention of the support board on the Sun model (which is also just a LCD monitor).
for example, the FLI2310 video format converter chip. It is also used in the Samsung DVDHD931 "upscaling" dvd player. I didn't find any mention of outputting "upscaled" video by way of component in's.. just over digital (dvi). Digital format converters shouldn't be confused with a D/A converter (like most of the ones in the link you provided) because all devices that use component video will use a D/A converter.
as far as your test.. I guess a true test would be to take a pic of your HDTV image.
I didn't really understand your comment regarding the "fixed image" though..
for example, the FLI2310 video format converter chip. It is also used in the Samsung DVDHD931 "upscaling" dvd player. I didn't find any mention of outputting "upscaled" video by way of component in's.. just over digital (dvi). Digital format converters shouldn't be confused with a D/A converter (like most of the ones in the link you provided) because all devices that use component video will use a D/A converter.
as far as your test.. I guess a true test would be to take a pic of your HDTV image.
I didn't really understand your comment regarding the "fixed image" though..
Blue Knight
Gawd
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Not sure if this will add to the conversation, but I run a PS2 while playing GT4 through my 2405 through the component inputs, and I can definantly say that 1080i looks a WHOLE lot cleaner. 480p just looks horrible as it's scaled up.
And yes, as I change the settings in GT4 the monitor changes the display res shown: 480i, 480p, or 1080i.
I can try other games too, but I don't think any others that I own support HD.
And yes, as I change the settings in GT4 the monitor changes the display res shown: 480i, 480p, or 1080i.
I can try other games too, but I don't think any others that I own support HD.
I think I didn't explain it good enough... Video goes into the components input, gets downscaled or processed by the pal/ntsc/secam/hd? decoder chip, then the processed signal gets transferred to the genesis scaler. Like shown on the previous link.
This is an example (not a good one, but you get the idea:
About the video scaler chip functionality:
FLI2310
The Infocus 5700 supports HD through components and also uses the same scaler. Its not limited to digital connections alone.
I didn't link to a D/A converter, but a video board with genesis scaler, video decoders and both analog and digital inputs. If you look at one of the other boards that has an earlier version of the genesis scaler: link
Notice also that this board is, among others, in these monitors:
By "fixed image" (didn't find a better word at the time) I meant that you can recreate the same conditions at any time without too many variables. People can also use the "same image" to check on other screens without having to watch the same broadcast on the same channel with the same hardware and so on... puh!
Video goes into the components input, gets downscaled or processed by the pal/ntsc/secam/hd? decoder chip, then the processed signal gets transferred to the genesis scaler. Like shown on the previous link. This is an example (not a good one, but you get the idea:
about components input
About the video scaler chip functionality:
FLI2310
The Infocus 5700 supports HD through components and also uses the same scaler. Its not limited to digital connections alone.
I didn't link to a D/A converter, but a video board with genesis scaler, video decoders and both analog and digital inputs. If you look at one of the other boards that has an earlier version of the genesis scaler: link
Notice also that this board is, among others, in these monitors:
By "fixed image" (didn't find a better word at the time) I meant that you can recreate the same conditions at any time without too many variables. People can also use the "same image" to check on other screens without having to watch the same broadcast on the same channel with the same hardware and so on... puh!
I don't know much about all these chip things, but if you have an XBOX360, just hook it up with component of 2405FPW, and then switch between 480p 720p and 1080i, with the "aspect" option so you can compare them at the same size without distorting the image. You don't even need to actually play a game. You will notice the difference just by looking at the menu. I think that would explain everything to people with normal eyes.
googleli said:
John tried that in the "does xbox look good on the 2405fpw" thread.
It didn't change resolution, only upscaled the picture. People have managed to get the VGA to display 720p without the jaggies, but with less vivid colors (which one at [H] implied might have to do with RGB vs. YUV issues and that sounds logical). Have you managed to display 720p without jaggies like on the VGA? The 2405fpw doesn't officially support HD over components, so its more to find out if it really does or not...
Btw, John, you asked if the 480p had other aspect then the 720p and 1080i. It looks like it on the pictures here: pics of the 360 over 2405fpw 480p looks totally squashed...It might account for the extreme difference between the 480p and the 720p.
Anyone test the Monster VGA cable on the 2405 yet? I know Monster's a ripoff all things the same... however, if their particular modifications somehow compensated for the washed out look of the official MS VGA cable... that'd make their $60 cable worth it for me.
I'm becoming pretty convinced that the components are either 1) upscaling a downconverted 480p signal or the 2) the input chip(s) use an algorithm that's particularly poor resulting in the jaggies. I really really would like to keep the vibrancy of the components if at all possible over teh VGAs.
Navy
I'm becoming pretty convinced that the components are either 1) upscaling a downconverted 480p signal or the 2) the input chip(s) use an algorithm that's particularly poor resulting in the jaggies. I really really would like to keep the vibrancy of the components if at all possible over teh VGAs.
Navy
all I know is this......I dial in 1080i on the 360 dashboard....
run the component plugs to the Dell 2405......
the picture that I get is superb. Ive played PGR3, kameo,PDZ, and Halo2 and to tell you the truth am not bothered by jaggies, distortion or any other video anomalies.
The picture just plain looks good, crisp and clean.
run the component plugs to the Dell 2405......
the picture that I get is superb. Ive played PGR3, kameo,PDZ, and Halo2 and to tell you the truth am not bothered by jaggies, distortion or any other video anomalies.
The picture just plain looks good, crisp and clean.
magoo said:all I know is this......I dial in 1080i on the 360 dashboard....
run the component plugs to the Dell 2405......
the picture that I get is superb. Ive played PGR3, kameo,PDZ, and Halo2 and to tell you the truth am not bothered by jaggies, distortion or any other video anomalies.
The picture just plain looks good, crisp and clean.
Sounds good! Maybe there are different revisions out there?
Maybe you can send us a picture with a closeup that proves a picture without jaggies on components? You see, Dell does not support HD on the 2405fpw`s components, people who has tried the 2405fpw with Xbox complains about "jaggies from hell" and in case you wonder if their xbox might be faulty, there are those who has a 2405fpw, an Xbox 360 and a "true" HD screen which experience the following:Paddy the Wak
If you notice the car on 480p compared to 720p, you will see that the height of the car is higher on 480p then on 720p, so that can at least excuse some of the jaggies on 480p. But, if you look at 720p plasma vs 2405fpw, you will notice that its much smoother and less jaggied on the plasma (though the picture looked a bit green, yes...). On Johns comparison picture of VGA input vs. components, you can see an even bigger difference. I think you will agree that the components on this closeup doesn't look like 720p? And you might understand then why several are a bit sceptic to HD support via components... Not even Dell wants to support it officially and its their screen...
Johns picture:
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for me.. it looks like there isn't any AA on the top pic. If it's on.. I wonder if we could get another pic with it turned off. I would prefer a 720p pic though since the xbox will introduce "some" distortion since it's just upscaling from 720p anyways.
I also wish we could get more people that have "other" HD sources other then the xbox360 to chime in.. since I have heard complaints since the introduction of the xbox360 in regards to AA and jaggies on all different types of monitors.
FWW, I noticed jaggies on that game when I viewed it on the Samsung panels at Best Buy. I noticed it right away because I just got through installing the pc version.. and they stuck out when I first tried the demo. The Samsung / X360 was setup correctly also.. (first thing I checked since there were many complaints on the forums regarding this)
I also wish we could get more people that have "other" HD sources other then the xbox360 to chime in.. since I have heard complaints since the introduction of the xbox360 in regards to AA and jaggies on all different types of monitors.
FWW, I noticed jaggies on that game when I viewed it on the Samsung panels at Best Buy. I noticed it right away because I just got through installing the pc version.. and they stuck out when I first tried the demo. The Samsung / X360 was setup correctly also.. (first thing I checked since there were many complaints on the forums regarding this)
Good idea!
Edit: Your edit came after my post. Regarding jaggies, as you can see, John didn't get the jaggies on VGA and Paddy the Wak on widescreengamingforum got jaggies with the 2405fpw through components, but not on the plasma. I didn't see the jaggies either when looking at COD 2 at 1080i on a games store, so I don't think its supposed to have jaggies through components.
Edit: Your edit came after my post.
Regarding jaggies, as you can see, John didn't get the jaggies on VGA and Paddy the Wak on widescreengamingforum got jaggies with the 2405fpw through components, but not on the plasma. I didn't see the jaggies either when looking at COD 2 at 1080i on a games store, so I don't think its supposed to have jaggies through components.
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I think that AA should be turned off for these tests though. It's the only way to get a true comparison.. (well, as close as possible comparing 2 different resolutions w/ 2 different output formats) I can't tell much from the pics other than what looks like AA in the second pic.. plus the textures look different.
The jaggy thing is game dependent. I am using a Japanese version Xbox360 so I don't have the chance to try PGR3 until next week. I don't know if DOA4 is out in the states yet, but if it is, go get a copy and hook it up on component and that settles everything. Also if you are not blind you should be able to notice the difference from the menu. I wonder whether this Yogamama guy even own a 2405FPW let alone an xbox360. Go see it yourself rather than looking at those crap photos, none of which is doing justice to either VGA or component output of 2405FPW.
What you're basically saying is that when an 1080i signal goes into the monitor, it will somehow downscale the signal to 480 and then upscale it to 1080i again for output. Yeah right. The fact that when shown at 1:1 setting of Dell, 480p, 720p and 1080i shows at different sizes already explains that native resolution. And in case you are wondering, there is no sign of upscaling from 480p at 1080i mode.
IF WHAT YOU SAID WERE RIGHT, i.e. that the Dell engineers somehow decided to downscale the 1080i signal to 480p and then upscale again via another chip to 1080i for output, THEN using XBOX360 1080i output and the DELL at FULL ratio setting would make the image look EXACTLY THE SAME as using XBOX360 480p output and the DELL also at FULL ratio setting. BUT THEY DON'T look the same, AND YOU ARE WRONG. The difference is HUGE. The difference is like playing a DVD movie stretched to full size and viewing a HD movie on the same monitor.
Regarding Jaggies - if you compare Dell with most LCD TVs (which have resolutions lower or much lower than Full HD), Dell will have MORE JAGGIES. The difference is like playing PS2 on a monitor vs playing on a conventional CRT tv. The image on the conventional low res CRT will have MUCH FEWER JAGGIES than you would believe. Ridge Racer 6 does display whole lotta jaggies when compared with my Plasma, because my Plasma has MUCH LOWER RESOLUTION at 1024X1024. But when I try Dead or Alive 4, where Ninja Team has clearly worked on the Jaggie issue, it looks razor sharp on my Dell and the image quality is much better than on my Plasma due to the resolution difference. Or, if playing a game is too difficult for your eyes to tell, you can try just looking at the Xbox360 menu. Don't believe the friggin photos. Borrow an Xbox360 to hook it up and you will see.
The best way is go look at how Xbox360 hooks up to Dell's component. Your statement "2405FPW has no support for HD" is completely wrong.
What you're basically saying is that when an 1080i signal goes into the monitor, it will somehow downscale the signal to 480 and then upscale it to 1080i again for output. Yeah right. The fact that when shown at 1:1 setting of Dell, 480p, 720p and 1080i shows at different sizes already explains that native resolution. And in case you are wondering, there is no sign of upscaling from 480p at 1080i mode.
IF WHAT YOU SAID WERE RIGHT, i.e. that the Dell engineers somehow decided to downscale the 1080i signal to 480p and then upscale again via another chip to 1080i for output, THEN using XBOX360 1080i output and the DELL at FULL ratio setting would make the image look EXACTLY THE SAME as using XBOX360 480p output and the DELL also at FULL ratio setting. BUT THEY DON'T look the same, AND YOU ARE WRONG. The difference is HUGE. The difference is like playing a DVD movie stretched to full size and viewing a HD movie on the same monitor.
Regarding Jaggies - if you compare Dell with most LCD TVs (which have resolutions lower or much lower than Full HD), Dell will have MORE JAGGIES. The difference is like playing PS2 on a monitor vs playing on a conventional CRT tv. The image on the conventional low res CRT will have MUCH FEWER JAGGIES than you would believe. Ridge Racer 6 does display whole lotta jaggies when compared with my Plasma, because my Plasma has MUCH LOWER RESOLUTION at 1024X1024. But when I try Dead or Alive 4, where Ninja Team has clearly worked on the Jaggie issue, it looks razor sharp on my Dell and the image quality is much better than on my Plasma due to the resolution difference. Or, if playing a game is too difficult for your eyes to tell, you can try just looking at the Xbox360 menu. Don't believe the friggin photos. Borrow an Xbox360 to hook it up and you will see.
The best way is go look at how Xbox360 hooks up to Dell's component. Your statement "2405FPW has no support for HD" is completely wrong.
First of all, if you cannot discuss civilized and have to be a complete f@nboy asshole when you discuss, then step away from my thread. You are insulting a lot of people who actually want to contribute and have contributed with their pictures including the administrator of this very forum.
Secondly, Dell doesn't support HD components on the 2405fpw.
Thirdly, people around the world finds jaggies on the 2405fpw through components and those who have connected the Xbox 360 to a HDTV via components have found the jaggies to disappear.
If you want to close your eyes like the monkeys in "hear no evil, say no evil, see no evil", then go ahead. This thread is for those who wants to get to the bottom of this and find out if it supports HD through components even if Dell doesn't claim it. You are welcome to contribute and if you can prove support that would be great. Just leave your "f@anboy" speaches at home...
Now, if you can tone it down a bit, turn off Caps Lock and be a bit civilized, I'll be happy to reply to your arguments (though most have been answered already).
Secondly, Dell doesn't support HD components on the 2405fpw.
Thirdly, people around the world finds jaggies on the 2405fpw through components and those who have connected the Xbox 360 to a HDTV via components have found the jaggies to disappear.
If you want to close your eyes like the monkeys in "hear no evil, say no evil, see no evil", then go ahead. This thread is for those who wants to get to the bottom of this and find out if it supports HD through components even if Dell doesn't claim it. You are welcome to contribute and if you can prove support that would be great. Just leave your "f@anboy" speaches at home...
Now, if you can tone it down a bit, turn off Caps Lock and be a bit civilized, I'll be happy to reply to your arguments (though most have been answered already).
oh boy you clearly still doesn't get what I mean especially re jaggies. Jaggies and HD support are completely different issues. If you prefer your "discussion" here and looking at those crap pictures (no offence) rather than go out there and check it out with your eyes, fine. The one who is closing eyes like the monkeys is you.
You said "Thirdly, people around the world finds jaggies on the 2405fpw through components and those who have connected the Xbox 360 to a HDTV via components have found the jaggies to disappear."
That's exactly what I experienced and said here too.
You said "Thirdly, people around the world finds jaggies on the 2405fpw through components and those who have connected the Xbox 360 to a HDTV via components have found the jaggies to disappear."
That's exactly what I experienced and said here too.
Ummagumma said:
Googleli's responses are a bit over the top, however you guys need to stop with this "Dell doesn't support HD over components" crap, cause it's simply not true.
Get a non-Xbox360 source for HD material, plug it into your monitor, and you'll instantly realize your arguments have no merit. Unless your version of the monitor actually doesn't support HD, in which case sorry to hear that. You would literally have to be blind not to notice the difference.
Adrian
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googleli said:
You have a sqaure plasma? Coooool.
This thread is becoming ridiculous. Really, if you don't have something useful to add to the discussion then don't bother posting at all. If you believe that your 2405FPW supports HD over component, feel free to let us know but don't throw a tantrum.
It is a fact that at least some 2405FPWs don't display HD over component properly. If you're going to contest that, provide evidence.
It is a fact that at least some 2405FPWs don't display HD over component properly. If you're going to contest that, provide evidence.