26"gaming/IPS monitor

R

Rajveer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
226
I'm looking for a 1920 * 1200 26", these are my priorities in order of preference, and things I'm looking for:

- Gaming (so low latency/lag)
- TV programs/movies (so very good contrast/black levels, good viewing angles, and no colour shift)
- Amateur Photoshopping (but I want accurate colours, although I'm not a professional)
- Adjustable stand is an advantage.
- Component inputs a bonus

Budget-wise I'm willing to spend around £350 - £400 (I'm from the UK, so around $700 - $800) but the cheaper the better as thats quite expensive!. I currently use a Hyundai L90D+ and, while I still love it, I've definately outgrown it. I now find it's pretty dim, stale, and doesn't have great black levels. So I guess I'm looking for an IPS panel, but are there any which are good for gaming?

If there is no 26" monitor with these requirements, any 24" recommendations?
 
I think for that price range you're going to be hard pressed to find something.


Planar has a really good 26" which uses the same panel (minus the polarizer) that the NEC 2690WuXI uses.

I have the NEC and it's quite possible the best monitor (LCD or otherwise) I've ever used. It has about 2-3 frames of lag, but no ghosting. The other upside to the NEC is that it has perfect scaling at none native resolutions so textures stay crisp when you're not running it at native resolution.

Prepare to pay for it though :D
 
What about the Hazro HZ26i?

I can attest to the NEC having good response time and a little lag of 2 frames, but the Hazro is very similar, and with a calibrator, is more than fast enough in regards to lag (usually just over 16ms) and color accuracy.

The NEC does have an overdrive on/off, but it does not change input lag much.

It's also easily available in the UK I believe.

Another option is the HZ24i which is 24" with a standard gamut glossy panel (as the 26" is wide gamut) and also very low input lag.
 
If you need that for gaming, probably TN is a better choice since TN is more mature. Try any TN yourself and see it's the angle really bothers you. It didn't really bothers actually while I am not going to seat underneath the table and play game.
 
Badd said:
the updated HZ26Wi actually has even lower input lag than the original version. new review available herE:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz26wi.htm
Click to expand...
So input lag is comparable to LG's which might hint to similar panel...
But just how Hazro manages to keep black level as that bad? Is it some tailor made super leaky panel or what? :confused:
Nearly 0.60cd/m2 when PRAD measured 0.30 for NEC and LG got below 0.20

EDIT: So yeah... Hazro basically uses eyeballs are smoking in their sockets -level backlight but instead of pure LCD blocking based brightness adjustment like in some El Cheapos they leave removing available contrast to user.
I wonder what power consumption measurement would show...

cpthk said:
If you need that for gaming, probably TN is a better choice since TN is more mature. Try any TN yourself and see it's the angle really bothers you. It didn't really bothers actually while I am not going to seat underneath the table and play game.
Click to expand...
TN has biggest flaw of all LCD types and is fully 100% incompatible with viewing angles and colour stability required for photoshopping. (old crap stays still as crap)
Vertically, however, the 160 degrees advertised cannot be achieved. In the ideal case, the user's eyes are at the middle of the screen at the level of the upper edge of the panel. However, even in this position, slight deviations in colour are visible, especially in blue tones. If you sink a little in the chair, the upper edge of the screen quickly looks darker than the rest of the screen. The lower area of the screen always looks brighter than the part above the centre of the screen.
http://www.proadviser.de/en/monitore/review/2008/review-samsung-2493hm-part12.html#Angles
 
yes, I understand that. But TN has it's good part that the response time is faster. I guess they all have its good part.
 
is it though? 5ms rated TN Film panels without RTC are not really any better than RTC-enabled VA/IPS matrices (of a similar quoted response time of 6ms or 5ms G2G)
 
I second that Badd.

You'll be happy with the DoubleSight DS-263N or the DS-265W when it comes out.
 
That's a lot of responses in one day, cheers guys. So at the moment I see:

NEC 2690WuXI:
- Great image quality
- Great scaling (v. important as I'll be playing some games in lower res)
- Response time ~7ms
- No ghosting

- 2-3 frames of input lag
- OVERBUDGET (~£700)

LG W2600HP:
- Good image quality
- Low response time (ave 5ms, max 16ms?)
- Negligable lag

- OVERBUDGET (~£700)

Hazro HZ26Wi::-
- ~7.5ms lag
- 5ms response time

- Average black depth
- Poorer contrast ratio compared to others
- Expensive (~£550)

DoubleSight DS-265W:
- Good image quality
- Low input lag? (if it uses the DS-263N panel?)
- Response time 5.5ms

The NEC and LG are way over my budget so I think I'll be giving them a miss, so it's between the Hazro and DoubleSight. Realistically I've been happy with my L90D+ for years so any of these two good image quality IPS monitors, with a low response time and negligable input lag, will probably be fine. I've no idea of the price point of the DS-265W, anyone got a clue? Also, what's the scaling like on these two monitors? That's one thing about the NEC I'd love.
 
If you use an nVidia card, scaling probably isn't a large concern. I used to have my GeForce do the scaling for me and it did a fine job. Now I will say the NEC does a bit better job, and is more flexible, but, well, it's scaler is above and beyond any I've ever seen before. I am not aware of any other monitor that even comes close. One of the reasons it costs so damn much.
 
ds-263n

if you can somehow find one in stock

i love mine. IPS (no polarizer but no biggie im looking straight on all the time), low input lag, works great with my computer and PS3 via hdmi->dvi, and the colors are awesome

edit: scaling is FULL, ASPECT (FULL), REAL. works fine with my ps3 at 1080p and 720p, obv 1080p is aspect or real, and 720p is set to aspect.
 
Cool so the DS-263N has good scaling and since the DS-265W will use the same panel I guess it's ok to assume that will too. How is the scaling on the Hazro HZ26Wi with other inputs such as the Wii at 480p over component? Do these monitors do any sort of overscan or is the picture perfect 1:1 when upscaling other sources?

Also, I'm a bit concerned with the DS-263N and DS-265W not having a HDMI input as I'll be looking to get a Bluray player fairly soon. Are the DVI ports fully HDCP compatible?

Anyone used both monitors? Which one would you rate overall as "better" (since they both have good response and lag times)?
 
christpunchersg said:
Isn't there an "overdrive" mode with the NECs to make the input lag lower?
Click to expand...


Overdrive doesn't do anything for input lag. Input lag is more of a function of how the panels internal electronics process + display the image.


I've heard really good things about the Hazro if you don't mind a glossy screen.

Like I said, looking for a good quality 24/26" panel is not cheap. Hope you find something that suits your needs and more importantly your budget.
 
I've heard really good things about the Hazro if you don't mind a glossy screen.
Click to expand...

just a note that it's only the HZ24Wi which is glossy, the 26" is matte finish
 
ATI is pretty much the same.

ATI has the added benefit of enabling or disabling GPU scaling which can be toggled if the monitor is laggy with scaled resolutions. Most aren't but some are.

But I can agree the NEC scaler is top notch, and does not (in this case) induce additional delays with lower resolutions.

Sycraft said:
If you use an nVidia card, scaling probably isn't a large concern. I used to have my GeForce do the scaling for me and it did a fine job. Now I will say the NEC does a bit better job, and is more flexible, but, well, it's scaler is above and beyond any I've ever seen before. I am not aware of any other monitor that even comes close. One of the reasons it costs so damn much.
Click to expand...
 
can you get the hazro in US? I am in the same boat looking for a quality monitor as much as I want real estate I want QUALITY.
 
Rajveer said:
LG W2600HP:
- OVERBUDGET (~£700)
Click to expand...
What? :eek:
I can get that for fair 600€ (=500£) even here in Finland!
I think you should start using benefits provided by EU if price level is that in UK...

You could add HP LP2475W to choises, HP seems to have figured out what they're selling and updated HDCP to specs in product page of US site.

btw, it's the input lag which is near zero avg/16ms at max.
Response time is 5ms but those are pretty much meaningless for comparison because of being plain marketing and most panels behave pretty much equally... except that RTC equipped IPS/VA is faster than non RTC TN.
Also that they have the same behavior as the fastest 24 inch TNs equipped with panels that have a given response time of 2 ms. In reality, the MB24W and 2408WFP are much more reactive than 5 ms TNs.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/712-4/lcd-david-vs-goliath-iolair-vs-dell.html


Stanley Pain said:
Overdrive doesn't do anything for input lag. Input lag is more of a function of how the panels internal electronics process + display the image.
Click to expand...
Yep, RTC doesn't cause any real input lag/buffering by it's operating principle, like that BeHardware review well shows.
 
The only price for the LG W2600HP (IPS model) I can find is ~700, I can find the TN LG W2600H-BF for around ~400 shipped from France or Germany. The HP looks nice but it's 24", I'm looking for a 26" as I feel it's a perfect fit for my desk and how far back the monitor will be.

About the response time, I got most of those figures from manufacturer sites where they said G2G next to the values so I'm assuming they're correct?

So right now it's between the DoubleSight DS-265W and the Hazro, leaning towards the Hazro because it's out now and I know the price point whereas I'm not sure how much the DoubleSight may be.

On a side note, my girlfriend really made me feel bad, she said she's getting a whole computer for £400 and I'm spending more than that on a monitor -_- I tried to justify it with the pretty colours, response time, lag, screen size, and the fact that I can literally use it as a TV in my room with all the inputs, but they really have a way of making your feel ridiculous!
 
Heh it's great to see a thread discussing the Hazro HZ26Wi. After giving up on DS (with their stubborn omission of HDMI), I'm looking at the Hazro. Seems Toasty's actually posting at the TFTCentral forum regarding the backlight on it, since black levels are a weakness of that panel.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1220470066

I think if the backlight issue could be sorted out, it'd be my #1 option, otherwise I'm going HDTV.
 
Err... don't discredit an ENTIRE monitor because they don't have HDMI.

Use a DVI-D->HDMI cable. Use that on the DVI-I DVI port because the DVI-D port doesn't offer scaling (only full I think, maybe full and 1:1).

My DS-263N works perfectly fine with my PS3 and monitor hooked up.
 
christpunchersg said:
Isn't there an "overdrive" mode with the NECs to make the input lag lower?
Click to expand...

From the review on prad.de:
"Analysis of the photos shows an average latency of 33 ms on the LCD2690WUXi, which is equivalent to pretty much exactly two frames at a frequency of 60 Hz.
In addition, we established that it makes no difference to the latency whether Overdrive is active or not. The internal frame buffer on the NEC LCD2690WUXi works permanently and always stores 1-2 frames in its cache."
 
veritas7 said:
Err... don't discredit an ENTIRE monitor because they don't have HDMI.

Use a DVI-D->HDMI cable. Use that on the DVI-I DVI port because the DVI-D port doesn't offer scaling (only full I think, maybe full and 1:1).

My DS-263N works perfectly fine with my PS3 and monitor hooked up.
Click to expand...

I meant the 265W. Everyone was waiting for news of it (especially with the additional connectivity), and then at the very last minute, remove that feature.

Instead they replace it with an absurdly useless built-in speakers. And on that note - yeah I coulda got the 263N, but then why did they deceive everyone about the HDMI feature in the first place? B/c then, really, all people ended up waiting for is an improved stand.
 
I agree with Mav. I am seriously disappointed in the lack of HDMI in the 265W. I'm really not liking my options for a 26" panel. I'm looking to upgrade from my 2007WFP because I want 1080P capability to watch HD content, so obviously I want to stay on an IPS (I've been spoiled by my 2007WFP :)) but I also want low input lag and HDCP compatible HDMI, DVI and VGA inputs (Need to hook up PS3, PC, and 360 respectively). I could maybe hook up the 360 through the component, but I'm not sure it supports 1080P, and I'd rather have my PC have DVI rather than VGA. I have money to spend, there's just no "perfect" gaming 26" with accurate colors.
 
Ok so I'm now deciding between the 2 Hazros: the 24" HZ24Wi and the 26" HZ26Wi. They're both pretty much identical, wrt things such as lag, response time e.t.c except:

- the 24" has a normal gamut, whereas the 26" has a wide gamut (perhaps the normal gamut would be better for me as I've read that a wide gamut monitor can make "normal" images/videos/games look oversaturated?)

- the 24" has a glossy screen (and therefore blacks naturally look better)

- the 24" is £400 at overclockers.co.uk for this weekend (good price for an IPS?) and the 26" is £540

Apart from price. the main reason I'm considering a 24" is due to ease-of-use during gameplay. I don't want to have to move my head to look around the monitor too much, but my desk is deeper than the average and I could get away with a 26". Can anyone comment on playing games on a 26" vs a 24", or does it not make that much difference? Are the extra 2" worth an extra £140??
 
I have come to a similar decision to buy a Hazro. It is however still not clear from the discussion here and other resources (including their website) as whether those two screens will support the 1:1 pixel mapping for HDMI sources like PS3. It says here

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz26wi.htm

"The resolution can be a problem however since any SD content needs to be scaled up, and the resolution means any imperfections and pixelation are accentuated even further. Not a good screen for watching anything from close up"

But on the other hand, here:

http://www.hazro.co.uk/downloads/1.1 Mapping_Notice.pdf

"Mapping certain resolutions such as 1920x1080p is possible via RGB, DVI and Component Y/Pb/Pr."

Do anyone of you guys can tell how it really is with 1:1 mapping?

As for the screen size Rajveer, it may not be best GBP140 (almost 40% more) spent on extra 2inches, but would rather say bigger is better for gaming.
 
christpunchersg said:
Isn't there an "overdrive" mode with the NECs to make the input lag lower?
Click to expand...

You can de/activate overdrive in the NEC, but this does not affect the input-lar (or only a slightly). I think it does affect ghosting though.
 
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