27" or 30" Recommendation (Complicated)

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Deeky

Gawd
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
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So I'm in the market for a new display.

I love my current HP LP2475w, but my eyeballs hate it. Something about the panel causes me brutal eyestrain if I'm not wearing corrective lenses - which is odd, 'cause I don't require glasses for anything else in life. I have an astigmatism but otherwise better than 20/20 (according to my optometrist). Even my iPhone4 I can read from a comfortable distance in vertical orientation (tiny font) with no strain at all.

Theories: The AG coating on the LG IPS panels? Maybe. Something about IPS panels in general? Possibly. The white glow? Who knows. The HP is my first IPS experience coming from TN and PVA/MVA displays. I have nothing to compare it to.

I play a lot of games, so low input lag is a must. The ZR30w is a great option but I'm hesitant to give HP another go considering my current predicament. Fact is, I'm scared of high resolution IPS panels in general ... though I suppose the only way to determine whether it's an "HP Thing" or a broader "IPS Thing" is to try a different brand of IPS (though the majority share the LG panel, so I'm leery).

I also do quite a bit of color sensitive work. Some light photo editing but mostly print related stuff, wherein I need to guarantee the finished product from the print shop will look identical to the CMYK image on my display.

So low input lag for my games. Color accuracy. You know, the usual. Maybe MVA/PVA (I do like the black levels, though lag is always a concern). Looking for something big. 27" minimum, 30" preferred. If I'm buying a new display, I'm buying something larger than the 24" I currently use.

I considered the Apple Cinema, but the whole mess with needing mini-DP or an ATI card is too much of a hassle. The Dell 30" offering looks decent, but not bulletproof to the point where I feel it's worth a gamble.

Thoughts? Recommendations?
 
Yes. I realize that, of course.

Like I said, I'd be remiss to write off IPS altogether without trying at least one brand other than HP. Since they all tend to share LG panels, I'm not sure it'll make a difference, but I hate to walk away from the "superior" panel technology without giving it another shot.

Maybe.

The Dell I'm not sure of as it's very similar to the HP with regard to the AG coat. The Apple would be interesting with the glossy, but the connectivity hassle is just too much.
 
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I'm starting to think the Apple might be my only real shot at IPS happiness, though what a pain in the ass with Boot Camp, etc. The aggressive AG on the HP messing with my vision is the only explanation that makes sense. Glossy could be my salvation.

Just for the sake of discussion, what would y'all suggest in the way of MVA/PVA displays?
 
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what settings are you using? I have had screens give me headaches because the settings were way off and wrong.
 
At first I used secondhand profiles I downloaded from various sources before I caved and bought i1display calibration hardware. I've tried every possible combination of brightness and contrast without sacrificing accuracy, along with various Nvidia control panel tweaks. No dice; and it goes way beyond a headache. I'm talking blood shot, weepy eyes after prolonged use.
 
Deeky said:
I'm starting to think the Apple might be my only real shot at IPS happiness, though what a pain in the ass with Boot Camp, etc. The aggressive AG on the HP messing with my vision is the only explanation that makes sense. Glossy could be my salvation.

Just for the sake of discussion, what would y'all suggest in the way of MVA/PVA displays?
Click to expand...


As far as I know the selection of PVA panels larger than 24 inches is very limited.
The ones available today are on the end of their life-cycle and should be replaced soon, but I haven't seen any news what so ever about succesors.

They're all wide gamut monitors without proper sRGB modes as well (i.e. Samsung 275T+, 305T+, Dell 2707), but perhaps that doesn't bother you so much since you seem content with your HP 2475.


I'd go for the glossy Cinema Display if I were you... or wait, but I'll guess you'll have to wait minimum six months for some new PVA panels to come out
 
Hmm. Alright, good to know. Thanks for the info.

The color accuracy on the Apple is my chief concern, really. The white LED creating overbright whites throwing everything off would really mess with my print work.

Barring the Apple, I might be forced to stick with 24". Is there any new hotness on the PVA market at the smaller size?

I'd be taking a hard look at the new Hazro 30" model if I could find it in North America (Canada, specifically). Good calibrated results, decent blacks, 14ms average input lag. Not bad.
 
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Alright. So:

1. I need color accuracy and no shift. So TN panels are out.

2. I want minimal input lag for gaming, so *VA panels are out.

3. IPS rapes my eyes, for whatever reason. The current state of LG AG. Screen door effect. Some other IPS-related issue, I dunno. For a second let's assume those are out, too.

So what's left? Do I sacrifice resolution and buy a friggin HDTV? Do I buy a *VA for color sensitive work and a cheap TN for gaming? I'm running out of options ...
 
Deeky said:
The color accuracy on the Apple is my chief concern, really. The white LED creating overbright whites throwing everything off would really mess with my print work.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "overbright whites"? LED actually gives a very wide brightness range, wider than CCFL so you can run a very low levels of brightness, and running too bright can be a source of eye strain.

If you are referring to some color balance issue, calibration should take care of that.

The major problem professional seem to report is that glossy screen makes it harder to print match.
 
Many *VAs are actually fast enough for gaming now. I had a Soyo DYLM24D6 that was a P-MVA panel and it was plenty fast, though I'll be the first to admit my current Planar PX2611w beats the hell out of it there. Granted, the Planar is one of the fastest / lowest lag IPS panels you can buy.

If you have a 24", go to 30". Any lesser increase will feel like more of the same. Yes, the Planar is bigger than the Soyo was (24" to 26") but I kick myself regularly for not going with a 30" Dell or similar.
 
Snowdog said:
What do you mean by "overbright whites"?
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Just parroting what I read in a review. I think it was Anandtech. They claim the whites are crazy bright and that bringing them into line with brightness reduction causes colors to go in the tank. Not sure how much truth there is to it. The glossy/print match issue is also a concern, not to mention potential PC compatibility hassles and the cost associated. That said, I haven't written if off completely.

@silent-circuit: I'd love nothing more than a 30" that agrees with me!
 
...generally speaking from hdtv reviews, most led back-lit lcd's mostly direct led with local dimming, burn the whites and crush the blacks in the low range, whether they sport ips, pva or sharps uv2a panels.Have seen detailed tests of philips 9705 and samsungs c9000. Only sony hx800 seemed better on this.

From your monitor choices the ZR30 does not have osd controls-not good for pro work.
either wait for the U3011 or go for the 2711.
 
Yeah. Using a television as a monitor has never sat right with me, to be honest.

Dell scares the crap out of me with their super aggressive AG. I'm not certain anti-glare is the cause of my problem but it's a contender. Nor am I crazy about their input lag numbers, though I realize you can't have it all these days when dealing with LCDs, especially when "ocular destruction" becomes a genuine concern right up there with uniformity and delta values.

Something about the LP2475w causes my astigmatism to become symptomatic; I wasn't even aware I had an astigmatism prior to the HP. AG would be bad. Most IPS screens sport aggressive anti-glare (thanks LG). Screen door would be worse, pretty much ruling out all current IPS panels. Some people claim the LP2475w has a left to right tint issue that could be screwing with my vision (though I don't notice it outright). That would be ideal, a problem related solely to this model. It's not setting related (hardware calibrated). It's not brightness (I ran the display at brightness 0 for a month with no improvement). It's not refresh rate related, I don't think. All of my previous monitors were 60hz. ClearType is on and I've tweaked it every which way. I sit at the recommended viewing distance and I don't squint. The lighting in my room is fairly standard and I've messed with various light sources, both positioning and type (blue, soft, etc).

I need to find another IPS screen and sit my ass in front of it for a spell. I think my local Future Shop recently put an iMac w/ Apple Cinema 27" on the display floor. Depending how long I can hover nearby without attracting too much attention, that would be ideal. If it bothers me, it's not AG and it's not HP-specific. Likely screen door or maybe the lack of a polarizer. If it doesn't ... well then at least I know it's not screen door (AG? HP? Maybe CFFL backlight?). Shit. One step at a time.
 
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Dammit. I'm currently on a crap Gateway display at Future Shop. It's fine. No eye strain at all, though it looks friggin' terrible. The Apple is sitting next to me and it absolutely wrecks me to look at. The eye-strain is almost worse than the LP2475w, though that could have something to do with a lack of proper calibration. Still ... it's not looking good for IPS.
 
Snowdog said:
What do you mean by "overbright whites"? LED actually gives a very wide brightness range, wider than CCFL so you can run a very low levels of brightness, and running too bright can be a source of eye strain.

If you are referring to some color balance issue, calibration should take care of that.

The major problem professional seem to report is that glossy screen makes it harder to print match.
Click to expand...

Read up on LED edge-lit tech. It is inferior in many ways to modern CCFL's. Just as an example, look at the 27" Apple. All they could come up with on their advertisement for going edge-lit LED was slightly less power usage. No hint of image quality improvement.

LED's only offer better image quality when they are RGB triad direct back light LED's. Much more expensive.
 
Vega said:
Read up on LED edge-lit tech. It is inferior in many ways to modern CCFL's. Just as an example, look at the 27" Apple. All they could come up with on their advertisement for going edge-lit LED was slightly less power usage. No hint of image quality improvement.

LED's only offer better image quality when they are RGB triad direct back light LED's. Much more expensive.
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Ummm. I know.

I was referring to the "overbright" remark because just about every LED backlight goes very dim if you need that, where many big CCFL have an operating floor of 150cd/m2 +.

It was like this when I had a Dell 3007 for a short while, even on ZERO brightness it fried my retinas.

I think I read somewhere that the ACD 27" goes down to 40cd/m2 which is VERY dim.
 
I'm beginning to think maybe it has to do with the lack of a polarizer. That's just a guess, of course, as I've never had the opportunity to test drive a high end NEC. On my current display, whites, especially white text, seem to "glow"; even at zero brightness, by which point colors have gone to hell. It's all subjective. No one else using the display is able to recognize the glow I often attempt to describe.

I cranked the brightness on the Apple at Future Shop down to zero. It helped a little but didn't eliminate the discomfort. Nor were the colors acceptable by that point.

Hrm.
 
Deeky said:
Dammit. I'm currently on a crap Gateway display at Future Shop. It's fine. No eye strain at all, though it looks friggin' terrible. The Apple is sitting next to me and it absolutely wrecks me to look at. The eye-strain is almost worse than the LP2475w, though that could have something to do with a lack of proper calibration. Still ... it's not looking good for IPS.
Click to expand...


Huh, so the problem doesn't seem to be the anti-glare coating, strange.

Are you American? If so, buy one of these before they up the price.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1552065
It's a steal for 190 dollars. You can always use it as a secondary display if you feel the viewing angles are to poor or need wide gamut.
 
I'm Canadian so no love, but thanks for the link. Yeah, I dunno. I spent some time jumping from monitor to monitor in FS, and several low end displays offered "sparkly" AG that didn't bother me at all. The Gateway all-in-one PC/display for instance.

.... but you might be on the right track. I may end up purchasing another monitor for general use (email, internet, word processing, etc) and gaming, with the LP2475w relegated to secondary status for color critical jobs. The HP does a fine job once it's calibrated and warmed up. Honestly, I'd rather sell the HP and replace it with a similar all-round unit, but that might not be possible.
 
Deeky said:
Alright. So:

1. I need color accuracy and no shift. So TN panels are out.

2. I want minimal input lag for gaming, so *VA panels are out.

3. IPS rapes my eyes, for whatever reason. The current state of LG AG. Screen door effect. Some other IPS-related issue, I dunno. For a second let's assume those are out, too.

So what's left? Do I sacrifice resolution and buy a friggin HDTV? Do I buy a *VA for color sensitive work and a cheap TN for gaming? I'm running out of options ...
Click to expand...
Given the level of difficulty you are having ... I'd at least give the Gunnar glasses a try ... I find that they help.
 
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