2900XT is making a big comeback!

Sheesh You guys sound like you were betrayed by ATI/AMD. Sounds like they owe you something. They Don't owe you shit, don't like their products fuck off don't buy them. :rolleyes:

I never remember this much crap being spewed at Nvidia when they released the 5800. People were still defending that piece of crap and I never remember this much negativity towards nvidia for that disaster compared to ATI and the r600. The r600 is a decent card not as fast as the 8800gtx but its still hell of a lot better then the 5800 disaster.
 
This card was crap the moment it was reviewed and showed it couldn't even outpreform a 300 dollar ( 8800 GTS 320meg ) card when its aimed at the 550 dollar ( 8800 GTX) version lol. While driver updates will help some performance issues ..this card is a dead generation card. Pretty sad to see ATI at the bottom of there game. I love the competition ..whoever has the faster card gets my money and this gen its the Nvidia.
 
You know your company is bad at what it does when it is beaten by a card that is 2/3 the price and and uses half of the power by ATi's own numbers. Sad.
 
Wrench00 said:
Sheesh You guys sound like you were betrayed by ATI/AMD. Sounds like they owe you something. They Don't owe you shit, don't like their products fuck off don't buy them. :rolleyes:

I never remember this much crap being spewed at Nvidia when they released the 5800. People were still defending that piece of crap and I never remember this much negativity towards nvidia for that disaster compared to ATI and the r600. The r600 is a decent card not as fast as the 8800gtx but its still hell of a lot better then the 5800 disaster.
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Your right, they don't owe us anything.
They owe no one, anything.

But, if they want to make money, as in, profits, as in, cash to spend leisurely, then they would want to make a good card, and if they really want the big bucks, they could make the best card out there.

They don't owe anyone anything, but if they continue to release products inferior to the 8800GTX, they will be owing the bank money. ;)

I was personally considering getting a HD X2900XT, ignoring the power consumption, and forgetting heat because I would be putting it on water whenever a block is released, and ignoring the fact that anti-aliasing is not a fan of the HD X2900XT and vice-versa, I just wanted to crossfire them on the Intel P35 chipset because I didn't want to lean towards SLIing, and having to use the 680i chipset.

So, I waited for a driver release here, and a follow-up review there.
It just didn't appeal to me.

I barely even game anymore.
And the games I do play, are the least graphically demanding games ever. (Counter Strike 1.6)
I will probably upgrade, 2009?
I keep wanting to upgrade, and switch things up.
AMD was going to get my money on quad-father, and then this.
Both just, 'didnt happen'.

:)
 
Do you think AMD even really cares for the high end market.. Seriously.. Most of its money will come from OEM implementations. High End is a TINY spec of profit compared to the massive amounts of revenue that OEM deals generate them. Ask how many people out there even buy a 300 dollar card let alone a 500 dollar one. Maybe like 1 in 40 by special 3d accelerators.
 
In my experience forcing AA works in all my games, its the forcing AA + HDR that hardly works in any of my games. Oblivion was the last game I got that combination (AA + HDR) to actually work.

ps. I won´t dive deeper into this flame fest, just wanted to say how I love when people think that "power words" make their arguments stronger. This place feels like its been overrun by a kiddengarden. Suc*s, Sh*t, Bl*ws ... <- Ooooyea I agree with you now.
 
Ok as much as i want to abuse ATI/AMD for failing with both there cpu's and gpu's i will be resonable.

this is the way i see it. Don't even bother comparing the 2900XT to the gtx or ultra, lets say its in the high end (not super high end) class of the gts. What do people in this range ofmoney want to see?

Perforamce is most imporant, Power consumption, noise and heat can be ignored to an extent if this is good. So compared to the gts the 2900xt does ok here. But wait we have a high end card here and want to play games with good graphics setting and aa/af otherwise we might as well get a model down. Whats the difference between 60fps and 200?

So i ask you what would you rather, have a card that does 80 fps and drops 20 for aa or a card that does 100 and drops 50?
 
Wrench00 said:
Sheesh You guys sound like you were betrayed by ATI/AMD. Sounds like they owe you something. They Don't owe you shit, don't like their products fuck off don't buy them. :rolleyes:

I never remember this much crap being spewed at Nvidia when they released the 5800. People were still defending that piece of crap and I never remember this much negativity towards nvidia for that disaster compared to ATI and the r600. The r600 is a decent card not as fast as the 8800gtx but its still hell of a lot better then the 5800 disaster.
Click to expand...

First of all, you're right. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. But in these forums, we give and receive advice. If you don't like that people don't recommend this card, then don't read the forum.

Second, the HD 2900 XT is not a "decent" card. It's only decent if its price drops to something around $250-300. At its current price (mostly above $400), it's not of good value, simply because there is something better for less money and with less drawbacks.
Also, a failure is a failure, no matter how you want to spin it. The NVIDIA FX line was a failure and this first iteration of R600 is a failure and that's exactly why people do not recommend it.
You said that you don't remember this much crap in the FX "era" and I can tell you I don't remember so much denial towards a card before. Even after so many reviews and so many tests, where this high-end card still fails to show good performance, there are still people defending it, saying that drivers in 2009, will boost magic performance. IMHO, that's a bit sad, because these companies strive of people's fanboyism. If people like it, no matter how bad the product is, these companies will not feel compelled to improve it.
 
No matter how good the "NEW DRIVERS" are, they can't make an underperforming card into the fastest thing in history. Sorry.

there's NO reason to buy an HD X2900XT over a GTS640, or even a 320 for significantly less.
 
Wrench00 said:
Sheesh You guys sound like you were betrayed by ATI/AMD. Sounds like they owe you something. They Don't owe you shit, don't like their products fuck off don't buy them. :rolleyes:

I never remember this much crap being spewed at Nvidia when they released the 5800. People were still defending that piece of crap and I never remember this much negativity towards nvidia for that disaster compared to ATI and the r600. The r600 is a decent card not as fast as the 8800gtx but its still hell of a lot better then the 5800 disaster.
Click to expand...

As far as I can see, the reason why people often gets into this debate is because they simply take some selective benchmark result and say HD2900XT is doing great, making huge comeback, whatever, and that's purely NOT true.

It's not about buying the card or not. You can buy it for all I care. But just because a person likes it, doesn't mean he can come here and post something that's not entirely true. Stop posting untrue judgement and this debate will be a thing of the past.
 
DrDoU said:
I was trying to be funny.Want make that mistake again:D
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Well Doc, Messr.'s Green aren't capable of comprehending humor that doesn't consist of acronyms or cartoons. The level of English language education has declined a great deal, you see.

As for AA and broken? It certainly seems that it's broken within games if the game limits or excludes AA level in its control panel. There will be latencies due to conflicting software settings that I think the graphics driver can't smoothly overcome unless the developer coded the game to yield to the driver. Something doubtful if they've hidden or limited AA controls in the game.

JackAshley said:
...HEY! Doesnt anybody remember when ATI laid down claims that the R600 would offer "free" AA, meaning that it wasnt to experience any performance difference with 4xAA or something, as compared to none? LOLS!
Click to expand...

Really? That would change the tenor of the whole discussion. When and where did you see the quote? Post a link?

Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again here: if you don't own and use the card then you're talking out your ass (Hornet and others). I hate to break it to those of you who come into an ATI flavor post about an ATI card, but for most 2900XT owners the only problem with the card (but it's a huge problem) is you. Start buying GTS's for other people or clam up already.

7.6's are a definite step up, AA isn't on 8800GTX levels but it's to the point where with Box AA I can run 8x AA with adaptive aliasing set to Quality in most games (COD2, HL2, Prey) and get very playable framerates, though at my monitor's prosaic 1440x900. So until you actually know the product, you're really in no position to sling insults at its owners. Oh, and www.Dictionary.com is a free site.
 
Uberbob102000 said:
You know your company is bad at what it does when it is beaten by a card that is 2/3 the price and and uses half of the power by ATi's own numbers. Sad.
Click to expand...

You left out the part about how it's been out longer too.:p :D
 
lol this is silly. if you showed an ati user a black piece of paper they would insist that it was white.

denial is not a river in eygpt fanboys. go with the best card for the $$ and stop defending what is an overpriced mishap.

I wouldn't have an issue with the 2900xt if it cost less than the 8800GTS. Before you start blabbing about, "well it IS cheaper here and here" b/c of the new psu that you have to buy to power this sucker it IS more $$ than a GTS lol.
 
One really good thing about that ASUS 2900XT is that you get 4 GAMES!!! (is it 4?)

W00T.


However this does not stop this thread from being LOL.
 
Silus said:
First of all, you're right. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. But in these forums, we give and receive advice. If you don't like that people don't recommend this card, then don't read the forum.

Second, the HD 2900 XT is not a "decent" card. It's only decent if its price drops to something around $250-300. At its current price (mostly above $400), it's not of good value, simply because there is something better for less money and with less drawbacks.
Also, a failure is a failure, no matter how you want to spin it. The NVIDIA FX line was a failure and this first iteration of R600 is a failure and that's exactly why people do not recommend it.
You said that you don't remember this much crap in the FX "era" and I can tell you I don't remember so much denial towards a card before. Even after so many reviews and so many tests, where this high-end card still fails to show good performance, there are still people defending it, saying that drivers in 2009, will boost magic performance. IMHO, that's a bit sad, because these companies strive of people's fanboyism. If people like it, no matter how bad the product is, these companies will not feel compelled to improve it.
Click to expand...

I hate to say you are right with your post, I love it when both companies have awsome products out and people could recommend both, or having these loyal threads where people will swear by the magnifying glass that one company is better then the later because of <insert random reason> and that totally makes the card perfect for purchase

how ever this time, as I cringe when I say this, the card is a failure ...

oh well, hopefully discussions will start up on whats wrong, whats good, and could be better (other then the obvious AA problems). Debates and discussions are always fun on the forums, but roasting ones product is just one really long tangent on one topic ... "IT SUCKS" which is way too boring :(
 
Wrench00 said:
I never remember this much crap being spewed at Nvidia when they released the 5800. People were still defending that piece of crap and I never remember this much negativity towards nvidia for that disaster compared to ATI and the r600. The r600 is a decent card not as fast as the 8800gtx but its still hell of a lot better then the 5800 disaster.
Click to expand...

You might be right about the FX not getting so much flak, but you must consider that the majority of user here own Nvidia hardware. So naturally Nvidias failure is not so big as ATI/AMDs atleast not here. If you want real denial in these forums, must look it in the IQ department. But I suggest against it, you have about 4 years of IQ debates to read :)

@Silus

There will allways be fans on both sides who are not willing to face the facts. I really don´t think that the majority of [H] Ati crowd lives in a denial, just a few loud fans. And we all know what few loud fellows can do, suddently it seems that the entire community is like that.
 
Do you think AMD even really cares for the high end market..
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Oh, they do, but just with a different approach. Wearing the performance crown at the top end will gain you respectability, but you're right, it's very much the low and middle end markets that actually generate profits for both Nvidia and ATI. If the 2900XT is a failure, which it sorta is, though it's not as bad as the FX was, it's not really going to hurt them all that much. Now, on the other hand, if the HD 2400/2600 is a failure, which we don't know yet, then that will most definitely hurt them.

Now, honestly, let's look at the whole picture a bit more objectively as well. Nvidia makes a fantastic product at the high end, but I would beg to different at the midrange. I think the 8600 is a total piece of shit for the price. But, it gets the job done, and the 8600 appeals to a different market than just me. So in a sense, I guess, it's not all that bad since it does have very good video playback and low power requirements. But I still think it could be better for the money. Paying $200 for a video card that has arguable performance levels with a $200 video card from the previous generation is a sad display of technology. Hopefully, the 2400/2600 series will do better than this, but I see ATI following the same footsteps.

And if you guys really want to see some good video card drama, check THIS out. With Intel looking to enter back into the mid/high performance GPU market, I'd say this is something to make a spew about. Honestly, this makes both Nvidia and ATI look like golden childs, because just like any race car; it's only as good as it's driver!
 
Ranari said:
Oh, they do, but just with a different approach. Wearing the performance crown at the top end will gain you respectability, but you're right, it's very much the low and middle end markets that actually generate profits for both Nvidia and ATI. If the 2900XT is a failure, which it sorta is, though it's not as bad as the FX was, it's not really going to hurt them all that much. Now, on the other hand, if the HD 2400/2600 is a failure, which we don't know yet, then that will most definitely hurt them.
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I hope not, because even the high end 2900XT 1GB offerings can't cut it. I'm pissed that ATI can't come up with something that really kicks some Nvidia ass. I adored my X800XL's image quality over my current 7800GT but with the 8 series I'm just itching to pull the trigger on a 320mb 8800GTS. Then again a 1GB 2900XT will probably do crazy Folding@Home crunching beyond what my Playstation3 offers ;)
 
Oh hell I am pissed too. I wanted ati to WAX nvidia b/c I want better performance period. I don't give a hoot who makes it.

Just funny that people still try and defend the 2900 despite the obvious.
 
You know, I hope the 2900 series does well. According to reports you can use custom resolutions under Vista. Meaning you can use powerstrip, it has been 6 months and we still cannot use the 8800 series with powerstrip under Vista. Nvidia omitting the custom resolution and timing tab in the NV control panel is not helping either.
 
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

INTEL in the GPU marketz!!!

That could really turn out to be interesting - imagine special CPU/GPU/Mobo combinations!!
 
:.:.: said:
I hope not, because even the high end 2900XT 1GB offerings can't cut it. I'm pissed that ATI can't come up with something that really kicks some Nvidia ass. I adored my X800XL's image quality over my current 7800GT but with the 8 series I'm just itching to pull the trigger on a 320mb 8800GTS. Then again a 1GB 2900XT will probably do crazy Folding@Home crunching beyond what my Playstation3 offers ;)
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that review is very fishy, why include the 8800 ultra in only some of the tests?
 
This thread is pretty long so I don't know if this has been asked. Does the 2900 have the possibility of outperforming the GTX or Ultra since it has more than twice as many stream processors as GTX?

Does it not really have that many stream processors or does ATI's driver support just suck?

I don't get it.

I
 
Hi there.

In regards to the review that is being called "fishy":

If you read page 4 of the review, you will see the explanation for the "hodgepodge" of cards that were included in the various tests. It is unfortunately that I was not able to include all cards in all tests but, as you will read, it just was not a possibility. Also in regards to the 2900XTX: I did indeed run tests on the card in single as well as CrossFire configurations... If you don't believe me, I guess I can't really do anything to prove myself.........

Regards,

Thomas Gribble
Managing Editor
http://hardware.gotfrag.com
 
I thought it was a pretty good review. I just didn't see that part on page4, so once I started viewing the hodgepodge of cards, I was like, "Huh?". Just shows you how gooder I reedz though. The performance was in line with all the reviews I've read so far.
 
I see nothing in particular that jumps out in the review, though it's unfortunate the GTS couldn't be tested.

Oh, and this isn't the proper avenue for this sort of comment, but it'd be great if GotFrag would give us a God damn drop-down list so we could easily jump to various sections. The page-jump links are better than what we get from certain other hardware sites, but there's no reason for one to have to memorize the index on page one to be able to confidently jump between different parts of the article.
 
shoes said:
Hi there.

In regards to the review that is being called "fishy":

If you read page 4 of the review, you will see the explanation for the "hodgepodge" of cards that were included in the various tests. It is unfortunately that I was not able to include all cards in all tests but, as you will read, it just was not a possibility. Also in regards to the 2900XTX: I did indeed run tests on the card in single as well as CrossFire configurations... If you don't believe me, I guess I can't really do anything to prove myself.........

Regards,

Thomas Gribble
Managing Editor
http://hardware.gotfrag.com
Click to expand...

Ouch! Busted!
 
phide said:
I see nothing in particular that jumps out in the review, though it's unfortunate the GTS couldn't be tested.

Oh, and this isn't the proper avenue for this sort of comment, but it'd be great if GotFrag would give us a God damn drop-down list so we could easily jump to various sections. The page-jump links are better than what we get from certain other hardware sites, but there's no reason for one to have to memorize the index on page one to be able to confidently jump between different parts of the article.
Click to expand...

You have no idea how long I've been asking the developers for that feature! I agree completely :mad:

-shoes
 
meatflower said:
Does the 2900 have the possibility of outperforming the GTX or Ultra since it has more than twice as many stream processors as GTX?

Does it not really have that many stream processors or does ATI's driver support just suck?
I
Click to expand...

I think, from what I've read, if I've read it right, the problem is that the shaders on the ATI card are clocked so much slower than the GTX's, and that is why the performance is so subpar.

Why it ended up that way is still being thrown around
 
Based on using both the 2900XT and the GTX, I don't think there is any way the 2900XT will ever outperform the GTX.

A graphics card is more than the sum of its parts. In some respects the 2900XT is a superior part but that is only on paper. The reality is that you can't have good image quality without anti-aliasing and the 2900XT is gimped in this respect due to the lack of ROPs.

I really don't think speculation about future performance means anything in the graphics card business. When a card performs well in today's games, I think it is reasonable to speculate on performance in future games. If you have been into graphics cards for a while, you sort of know what kind of performance hit to expect from a new generation of games. When a card performs poorly in today's games, however, I don't think it is reasonable to make a purchasing decision based on expected future performance. You are basically betting that performance will improve with the next generation of games, and that is something that goes against common sense and every trend I have ever seen.

I think it is safe to assume that if ATi could have built a card that was as good as the GTX they would have, but they didn't. Nvidia built some really good cards and they did it timely. With the GTX, 8x and 16x anti-aliasing is not only possible, it is highly playable at high resolutions. That is a big jump in image quality. You just don't get that kind of improvement with the 2900XT.
 
Thanks AMD for sucking up ATI on your way down the plug hole.

used to be a proud ATI user, now I wont touch it.
 
Blackstone said:
Then they list as cons "anti-aliasing" performance like it is no big deal. They are basicially downplaying the anti-aliasing issue. It never fails--the sites that like the card don't use anti-aliasing. In my opinion, games look like absolute garbage without anti-aliasing set at 4x minimum.
Click to expand...

For 1920x1200 or even 1600x1200, AA makes little difference in most scenes.
 
You guys crack me up, I just read all 6 pages and I laughed so hard at what some of you post I almost pulled a back muscle :D
 
the number of ROPS being responsible for the lack of AA performance does not make sense, the card does worse in cases with AA compared to the prior generation of card which has the same amount of ROPS, but a slower core, also pay attention to the AA performance compared between the G70's and the R580's, again a situation where nvidia has more ROPS and ATI manages to either equal or better in AA performance


ROPS just doesn't make sense, something is borked with the core or something
 
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