3200+/K8N neoPlat: whats holding me back / RAM cooling options

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black_b[ ]x

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 1, 2002
Messages
1,753
System:
MSI K8N Neo plat. bios 1.3 w/ HT @ 3x
3200+ Clawhammer @ 1.65V (revision SH7-CG if that matters) / TDX waterblock
2x512 Crucial ballistix PC3200 in slots 1 and 3 @ 2.7V (rated for 2.8)
74GB raptor on SATA 4
AGP set to 68 for the PCA/AGP lock
Fortron 550 PSU: shows 1.65 / 3.33 / 5.00 / 12.38 under Prime95

My best stable config has been 225FSB with 2.5-4-4-8 timings. Trying for 230 and it dumps after 9 min of Prime95. The highest CPU temp I read was 50C on my last attempt a few minutes ago. Case/system temp seemed to be 32C with good airflow. Just tried at 2-2-2-5 and it bluescreened early in bootup.

Previously I stuck my hand on the RAM and it was quite hot. I figured I wasnt getting enough air to it, so i made an air duct out of cardboard that goes right up to the exhaust fan. This seemed to help. This was also when I put the memory in 1 and 3 instead of 1 and 2, so they had more room to breath.

My general question is, does anyone specifically try to cool their memory, or just use lots of airflow through the case? How do most people with watercooling do this?

the NB does not seem to be getting that warm. I'm assuming the system temp is measured at the NB, and its usually between 32-35C. I'm running Prime95 torture test 3 now, Test 4 is now running and CPU is 47C on MBM5, 51C on the MSI utility. The vid card says 34C is the ambient, MBM5 says 33C. My case temps are about 2 degrees lower when I have my side panel on.

What should I try next? ducting to the stock northbridge? upgraded cooler on the NB? I don't have much room to work with (6800U in the way). I may try a sealed off duct to the memory, right now its loosely placed over the mobo, also doesn't have that much area at the fan to suck air through it.
 
Just today I bought a K8N Neo Plat,
and ordered a Thermalright XP-120 and Panaflo 120mm M1A

I'm planning to pick up a 3200+, trying to decide between 1MB L2 cache (OEM) Clawhammer and a 512k L2 cache Newcastle (Retail).

In my area the retail Newcastle is only 10 bucks more than the OEM Clawhammer, but I'll be tossing the stock heatsink anyway. I'm planning on feeding it 2 x 512MB 2-2-2-5 Crucial Balistix PC3200 memory.

I have searched and read numerous reviews, everybody seems to have their own opinion but from the few benchmarks I have seen it appears that out of the box, Newcastle is slightly faster, but if one considers overclocking to run both at the same clock speed then many would choose the Clawhammer.

The real question remains:
Does the rumoured 'improved memory controller' of the Newcastle lead to enough of a better maximum (daily use) overclock, such that it outperforms the extra 512k of L2 cache that the Clawhammer enjoys?
 
black_b[ ]x said:
System:
What should I try next? ducting to the stock northbridge? upgraded cooler on the NB? I don't have much room to work with (6800U in the way). I may try a sealed off duct to the memory, right now its loosely placed over the mobo, also doesn't have that much area at the fan to suck air through it.
Click to expand...
It'll look really ghetto, but try making a side panel out of cardboard, and cut out ducting holes and experiment by attaching fans in different places, try sucking out and blowing in, trying to get the windtunnel effect as much as possible. Run prime for about a half hour in each configuration, and take notes. You'll be surprised with the difference a set of well placed fans will make, and strangely more CFM does not always result in lower temperatures if it results in turbulence.
 
You should be able to get a higher oc with watercooling.

Make sure spread spectrum / enchanced timings / dynamic overclocking is disabled in bios.

Also I know some SATA connectors don't have a working AGP/PCI lock. I don't use them myself but eithier 1-2 or 3-4 don't work, just look it up.

1.65Vcore seems like overkill for those speeds.

If you want to rull out memory just use a 5:6 multiplier at first and see how far the cpu can go then figure out the max overclock for cpu/ram.

Some people are claiming better oc's with beta bios's. I tried 1.42 and it didn't make a difference.
 
I've heard it's the 1-2 before (the ones lower down on the board), use the 3-4 first (by the AGP slot).
 
Thanks for the input. I'm using SATA 3 right now. I disabled SATA 1 and 2 last night and confirmed that DMA is enabled on 3/4, that didnt seem to help. If anyone has performance figures for SATA on this mobo, see my other thread :)

I think my overall airflow is pretty good. If I take off my side panel, my temps increase. I have a lot of dead space, so more ducting may help. I'll try running a lower memory multiplier and see if its really the memory thats holding me back.
 
Did you try OC'ing before you moved one of the memory sticks from slot two to slot three? Most people that WC will WC their video cards and even NBs or HDDs before memory, memory should just not be getting too hot... Some mobos have trouble with their third DIMM slots (particulary when OC'ing), tho usually it's with regards to having all three full but I dunno.
 
well I set the memory clock back to 166, then to 133. Timings were 2.5-4-4-8, 2t, 3x HTT, and still was not stable. At 245, it booted to windows, but dumped instantly on prime95. Still dumped at 235 after a while. I'm thinking I got the CPU that was at the edge of the wafer, and then fell on the floor as someone reached for their coffee before saying "shit... 5 second rule!!" blowing it off, and stuffing it in a box. My best stable speed was 225 FSB, 1:1/2t/2.5-4-4-8. I guess I can go back to OC'ing my vid. card.
 
I just ordered some Ballistix PC4000. It will be interesting to see if the extra $10 per stick results in better performance (lower timings for a given higher FSB) over the PC3200. Other than that our rigs are pretty much identical.
 
after more testing, I think poor cooling on the north bridge is my problem. I put a couple cardboard cutouts over an intake fan to direct air over the stock heatsink, and my "case" temps dropped 5-7C. I haven't fully tested it yet, and the current setup is quite ghetto (masking tape and cut up cardboard from a 12-pack).
 
space_monkey said:
Just today I bought a K8N Neo Plat,
and ordered a Thermalright XP-120 and Panaflo 120mm M1A

I'm planning to pick up a 3200+, trying to decide between 1MB L2 cache (OEM) Clawhammer and a 512k L2 cache Newcastle (Retail).

In my area the retail Newcastle is only 10 bucks more than the OEM Clawhammer, but I'll be tossing the stock heatsink anyway. I'm planning on feeding it 2 x 512MB 2-2-2-5 Crucial Balistix PC3200 memory.

I have searched and read numerous reviews, everybody seems to have their own opinion but from the few benchmarks I have seen it appears that out of the box, Newcastle is slightly faster, but if one considers overclocking to run both at the same clock speed then many would choose the Clawhammer.

The real question remains:
Does the rumoured 'improved memory controller' of the Newcastle lead to enough of a better maximum (daily use) overclock, such that it outperforms the extra 512k of L2 cache that the Clawhammer enjoys?
Click to expand...
How did you get a XP120 on a K8N Neo???? I emailed Thermalright and they said there was no way the XP-120 will fit.


"Hi Brandon,

Sorry. XP-120 will not fit MSI K8N Neo Platinum. :-((

There is a capacitor in between K8 rentention and AGP that interferes with the heatpipe loop of XP-120.

Would you care for a XP-90 which has no mechanical issues at all with K8 boards.

thank you for taking interest in Thermalright products!


Thermalright,

Chris Lee"
 
Figured this thread would be a good place to post this ?. I'm trying to OC my K8N Neo, and after a certain point, my RAID manager doesn't recognize my RAID array anymore (past 210). I've got them plugged into controllers 1 and 2. My memory does kind of stink, I know, but I managed to get the timings down to 2.5-3-6-3 with a FSB of 208 without messing with the voltages, but after moving up to 210 this RAID problem came up. Anybody know whats going on?
 
try moving your RAID array to 3 and 4 (between the CPU and AGP slot). Set your AGP/PCI clock to 68 (instead of 67, just to be sure the lock is on). And check your north bridge cooling, I think thats my current problem.
 
Thanks for the advice, black_b[]x, that did it. Moved the drives to SATA3 and 4, and upped the AGP bus to 68. I have it now at 225 MHz, same timings.

I'd heard about the northbridge cooler on this board when I bought it, so I picked up a vantec northbridge cooler. I think it's their CCB-A1C. Anyway, it does work really nicely. The only problem was that it it hard to fit the 6800 in the agp slot with the fan on. well, that's not entirely true: it goes on, but reaching the lever to unlock it is a bitch! Anyway, I've ran Prime95 for a half hour with no mistakes, so I think this is a good time to do a overnight run. My 3DMark went up 1200, to 12k! Who knows, I might even try running Doom3 at ultra high quality. Thanks, Geritol.
 
stryder2720 said:
How did you get a XP120 on a K8N Neo???? I emailed Thermalright and they said there was no way the XP-120 will fit.


"Hi Brandon,

Sorry. XP-120 will not fit MSI K8N Neo Platinum. :-((

There is a capacitor in between K8 rentention and AGP that interferes with the heatpipe loop of XP-120.

Would you care for a XP-90 which has no mechanical issues at all with K8 boards.

thank you for taking interest in Thermalright products!


Thermalright,

Chris Lee"
Click to expand...

ARGGHHHHH then why does it not warn that the XP-120 doesn't fit the MSI K8N Neo Platinum on the "Motherboard Compatibility Information" chart???
http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_support_faq_motherboard_xp120_k8.htm

For the Neo Platinum there is nothing noted (meaning no problem?)

:mad: :mad: :mad:

I don't see what the problem could be, regardless of how you mount the XP-120 on the K8N Neo Platinum.
Mobo.jpg


Which capacitor is Chris Lee speaking of? I tried putting the XP-120 down in all 4 orientations and none of them came even close to a cap.

Whereas at http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_support_faq_motherboard_xp120_k8.htm there is a note saying the XP-120 is "Not Compatible (caps mechanically obstruct pipe.)" with the K8N Neo2 Platinum, as you can see there are 2 caps right next to the retention clip for the Athlon64 heatsink:
k8nneo.jpg


Is it possible that Chris Lee from Thermalright is confused between the Neo2 and the Neo?
 
is anyone else using a K8N Neo with an XP-120???
I have seen other people claiming they have decided against buying an XP-120 because they heard that you have to bend caps for it.

Let's get the facts straight people!!!
 
I mounted the XP-120 on the K8N Neo Platinum without any trouble.
I have the heatpipes pointing downwards, and keep in mind that in order to hook in the top of the heatsink into the retention mechanism I had to remove the RAM.

Just a warning that on this motherboard the heatpipes come pretty close to the AGP slot, which won't be a problem for most video cards unless you have a rather large set of heatsinks on the back (top side). I'm guessing the Leadtek 6800's would have their rear heatsink touching the heatpipe (this might not be such a bad thing?)
 
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