450 DPI @ 500hz CULT - Pro Player Setup?

S

SHiZNiLTi

Gawd
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
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When I come across really talented players out on the battlefield I like to do research on them, check out that players stats and see what kinda accuracy they have and see what kinda setup they are using.

What I find odd is that almost all of them run really low DPI around 450-500dpi and they aren't even using a 1000mhz polling rate which I thought was the best, instead they have it set to 500mhz.

Anyone here on [H] use these settings?

BF3 Settings from some guys that have unbelievable accuracy and KDR's 3.5 or higher, these stats aren't from camping either, run N' gun type players that PTFO.

120hz monitor
Zowie EC2 Evo mouse
SteelSeries QcK+ pad
450 DPI @ 500hz
In-game senstivity: GstInput.MouseSensitivity 0.075
6/11 Windows Setting
Enhance pointer precision UNchecked

144hz monitor
Logitech MX518 mouse
Steelseries QcK Heavy pad
450 DPI @ 500hz
In-game senstivity: GstInput.MouseSensitivity 0.055
6/11 Windows Setting
Enhance pointer precision UNchecked

120hz monitor
Razer Deathadder 2013 mouse
SteelSeries QcK Heavy
400 DPI @ 500hz
In-game senstivity: GstInput.MouseSensitivity 0.065
6/11 Windows Setting
Enhance pointer precision UNchecked

It seems like gaming mice developers have been deceiving gamers into thinking that higher DPI = more accuracy & better mouse, when the reality is that higher DPI = higher sensitivity. So now new gaming mice developers who actually care and know what they're doing are forced to include these ridiculously high DPI steps in order to appeal to uninformed casual gamers.

I've been using 1800dpi @ 1000mhz, I think it's time for a change and see what happens.

You guys should try the 450dpi/500mhz settings and report back with your results and opinions on this.





My current setup... G400, glass ICEMAT 2 / Mionix Propus 380, G15 (want to replace with K70 or Roccat Ryos MK Pro)
8xcx.jpg
 
Just because pros use something doesn't mean it is better.
500hz has twice as much input lag as 1000hz.
You can get smoother, more precise mouse movement with higher mouse DPI and lower sensitivity.

For example if you had 500 DPI at .02 sensitivity and switched to a 1000 DPI mouse and .01 sensitivity your mouse movements would be exactly the same but you would have twice the precision.
 
I have heard that the polling rate for mice doesn't matter much over 500hz, that anything more and you are just taxing the CPU and USB bus more. However, I haven't seen any hard evidence, and I can't see that stressing any CPU made in the last 8-10 years. I did see some evidence that super high polling rates are irrelevant for keyboards on some mechanical keyboard reference page.

As far as the DPI is concerned...
There are so many factors that people also don't take into consideration such as raw mouse input, mouse sensitivity setting in windows control panel, mouse sensitivity in-game, driver or software lag (has happened with logitech software in past) etc.

Personally, I have my G500 setup so that I use the DPI buttons work as mouse speeds for different situations. 3000 DPI is more than enough for me under most situations. I set the mouse sensitivity to one setting that is most comfortable for normal use. Settings below are approximate since I don't remember off hand and am at work right now.
Lowest setting = 800 DPI = use for sniping
Middle setting = 3000 DPI = normal use
Highest setting = 5000 DPI = vehicle turrets

I do feel there is a point where there are diminishing returns with higher DPI, but I suspect its much higher than some of these low DPI people swear by. I believe these low DPI people are also the same people who swear by the lower DPI optical mice also, thus its more of a placebo affect since they already do so well with the opticals. I'm betting its a lot more complex than people imagine.

I will say this though, having a super high DPI then setting the mouse sensitivity super low results in higher precision for me in Photoshop and AutoCAD editing. Much easier for me to be almost pixel precision. If that is placebo also, someone let me know.
 
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sharknice said:
Just because pros use something doesn't mean it is better.
500hz has twice as much input lag as 1000hz.
You can get smoother, more precise mouse movement with higher mouse DPI and lower sensitivity.

For example if you had 500 DPI at .02 sensitivity and switched to a 1000 DPI mouse and .01 sensitivity your mouse movements would be exactly the same but you would have twice the precision.
Click to expand...
It's just such a weird coincidence that almost every single player with amazing skills uses 450dpi@500hz mouse settings. If you look at the true professional gamers almost every single one of them uses these settings.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkghPvIh7ZVwdGZ3WXE0dDlTdk5rT1ZKZm91VXVzREE&output=html

What you said makes does make sense, that's what I used to do in the past, use max DPI and just lower sensitivity to compensate for the faster speed thinking that it's gonna be better. But in fact many of these pro players say it's not better, I've chatted with a couple of the best players out there and they say 450dpi@500hz is smoother and will give you much better accuracy.

What it looks like it comes down to is Low DPI(400-450) + 500hz Polling Rate gives the highest perfect control speed.
 
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§·H·ï·Z·N·ï·L·T·ï;1040310197 said:
It's just such a weird coincidence that almost every single player with amazing skills uses 450dpi@500hz mouse settings. If you look at the true professional gamers almost every single one of them uses these settings.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkghPvIh7ZVwdGZ3WXE0dDlTdk5rT1ZKZm91VXVzREE&output=html

What you said makes does make sense, that's what I used to do in the past, use max DPI and just lower sensitivity to compensate for the faster speed thinking that it's gonna be better. But in fact many of these pro players say it's not better, I've chatted with a couple of the best players out there and they say 450dpi@500hz is smoother and will give you much better accuracy.

What it looks like it comes down to is Low DPI(400-450) + 500hz Polling Rate gives the highest perfect control speed.
Click to expand...

I have never heard a pro say that higher DPI with lower sensitivity is worse. Just try it yourself if you want proof.

If you have a mouse that can switch DPI on the fly set it up so you have 400 and 1600 DPI available.

Boot up your favorite version of counter-strike and create an empty server.
Set your mouse to 400 DPI and set your sensitivity to 4 using the console.
Move your cross-hairs as small an amount as you can. Notice that there is a limit to how precise you can move your cross-hairs. It will noticeably jump a couple pixels.

Now change your DPI to 1600 and sensitivity to 1. When you move your mouse around you'll see that you can move it in smaller distances. It is 4 times as precise.

You can keep increasing DPI and lowering sensitivity until it eventually becomes so precise it isn't noticeable.
 
IME higher dpi with lower sensitivity hinders performance in fast paced games like Quake. The choppy nature of 400-1600dpi (depending on resolution) allows far more accurate aim than 4000dpi+, with in game sensitivity adjusted. Too much precision tends to increase the time spent before hitting fire, or increases the need to adjust aim while firing (more wobble). We're talking milliseconds here but every little counts. Basically your brain is thinking too much when it's too smooth :) This is from personal experience of many, many mice. My preference is 400-800dpi at low resolution.

Higher dpi and precision only helps when camping and trying to hit 1 pixel targets miles away.
 
sharknice said:

I have never heard a pro say that higher DPI with lower sensitivity is worse. Just try it yourself if you want proof.

If you have a mouse that can switch DPI on the fly set it up so you have 400 and 1600 DPI available.

Boot up your favorite version of counter-strike and create an empty server.
Set your mouse to 400 DPI and set your sensitivity to 4 using the console.
Move your cross-hairs as small an amount as you can. Notice that there is a limit to how precise you can move your cross-hairs. It will noticeably jump a couple pixels.

Now change your DPI to 1600 and sensitivity to 1. When you move your mouse around you'll see that you can move it in smaller distances. It is 4 times as precise.

You can keep increasing DPI and lowering sensitivity until it eventually becomes so precise it isn't noticeable.
Click to expand...
Fatl1ty himself has said that higher DPI with lower sensitivity is worse, he bashed his own branded high DPI mouse... I know many other professional players that have said this also, but this is the only proof I could come up with for right now other then just word of mouth. I've been gaming competitively for 13 years since Delta Force 1 and go back with alot of really talented players and almost all of them run 450dpi@500hz still to this date...
http://fatal1ty.com/fatal1ty-frags-blog-3rd-frag-mouse-sensitivity/

seanclayton said:
It ultimately depends on the player's skill.
Click to expand...
In the end skill is what puts you on top, I don't expect people to change over to 450dpi@500hz and magically unlock this hidden talent putting them on pro level lol.

It's just too much of a coincidence that all the guys who put in crazy hours gaming competitively at pro level are using 450 DPI @ 500hz and the PUB all stars that stand out with amazing accuracy and amazing KDR's are also using this setup. If running higher DPI with lower in game sensitivity was better don't you these players would do that?
 
A lot of the modern gaming mouse I've had feel awkward compared to some of the older ones I used to use and I'm not entirely sure why but it could be the new trend toward ultra high dpi, polling rates, and lasers instead of optic.

One of my favorite mice ever was some cheapo memorex 5 button ambidextrous optical mouse, was perfect shape for me and great all over, when it died I never found another like it.

A couple mouses back i had a TT ES Black, I had it cranked up in DPI but would tune my sensitivity to where I liked and I couldn't hit shit, people all saying DPI is king for accuracy.

Finally tuned it down from something like 3k+ to 1250, but raised my sensitivity and my accuracy went up noticeably. IDK but high dpi settings almost seem to have a negative impact.
 
FRANKIEonPCin1080p review about mouse DPI, just posted up yesterday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH7PKuW7mvA

He uses Ravic's gameplay in his vids, these are his settings...

Zowie EC2 Evo mouse
SteelSeries QcK+ pad
450 DPI @ 500hz
In-game senstivity: GstInput.MouseSensitivity 0.075
6/11 Windows Setting
Enhance pointer precision UNchecked
 
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§·H·ï·Z·N·ï·L·T·ï;1040314712 said:
FRANKIEonPCin1080p review about mouse DPI, just posted up yesterday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH7PKuW7mvA

He uses Ravic's gameplay in his vids, these are his settings...

Zowie EC2 Evo mouse
SteelSeries QcK+ pad
450 DPI @ 500hz
In-game senstivity: GstInput.MouseSensitivity 0.075
6/11 Windows Setting
Enhance pointer precision UNchecked
Click to expand...

This guy knows just enough to be dangerous. Some of the points he gets right but he is also flat out wrong for some of the things he says. For example he makes a point that higher resolution requires higher dpi to maintain the same turning speed. This is false. Turning speed is completely independent of resolution. I think a lot of the falsehoods people have come up with for FPS aiming are because they don't realize using the mouse to turn in a 3D game does not work the exact same as moving the mouse cursor on a 2D desktop.

I could talk about how good my aim is but I'm too modest and it doesn't offer definitive proof like the facts.
I should probably just make a youtube video and show examples on videos to squelch the myths and false information going around.

Most of the pros you listed in the spreadsheet have their mouse setup so that it takes over a foot of horizontal movement for a full 360 turn. The reason a lot of pros play with low DPI is because in the late 1990s when competitive FPS gaming first become serious mice didn't have high DPI. Back then people understood that lower sensitivity meant higher precision so they kept sensitivity as low as they possibly could and used huge mouse pads so they could make really big movements with their mice. People who played back then got used to it and have kept using the same settings. New players look at what the old pros do and copy them.

I used to have settings like that back in the day too, but technology has improved and I adapted to take advantage of it.

I don't really like battlefield so I don't play much, but when I do play I top the scoreboard
I use a Logitech G700s on a Corsair MM400
.01 in-game sensitivity
6550 DPI @1000hz
6/11 windows
unchecked enhance pointer precision

These settings equate to 6.8" of mouse movement for a full 360 degree turn
I configure all my games so aiming is exactly the same and a 360 degree turn always takes 6.8" of mouse movement.
The equivalent counter-strike setting is 1.0 in-game sensitivity and 2400 DPI.
If you setup your games so they are all the same it doesn't throw off your aim when you switch games. See here if you're interested in doing the same.
 
This thread has opened my eyes and made me realize I will never be a 'pro gamer' and I am okay with that.
F'all those mice.
 
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