4870x2 reviews beating gtx280 sli

BigCactus said:
heatlesssun,

As I said, I'm sure you get great performance in cod4, but your not looking at the price / performance ratio here. $499 for the 4870x2 and $1000 for gtx280 sli. Most people will choose the 4870x2. Once the gtx280 goes down to $250-300 then we can start comparing gtx280 tri sli to one 4870x2 I suppose...but even then that's a stretch. The fact that the 4870x2 on beta drivers can beat a gtx280 sli set up in certain scenarios for $500 less says a lot.
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I agree with the performance vs. price argument. However my point was to build a very fast rig with a $5000 budget. I already had the motherboard for 3x SLI months ago. And we still don't have the 4870x2 quite yet. So I didn't want to wait another two months for something I'd started building two months prior to that. And my guess is that once the 4870x2 comes out, it'll be trumped in a few months as well. This is going to be a short generation I believe on both sides.

And by next month the price difference between 4870x2 CF and GTX 280 3x SLI is going to smaller than it looks now I bet, $100 bucks tops by the end of the month I bet.
 
it is incredible performance indeed,

this feels just like the 9700 radeon launch all over again, a killer card that NO BODY was expecting from either side, thats breaks ground, amazing

there are indeed a alot of people in denial, but thats nothing new, saw it before and seen it now :p

sam
 
chulerico said:
it is incredible performance indeed,

this feels just like the 9700 radeon launch all over again, a killer card that NO BODY was expecting from either side, thats breaks ground, amazing

there are indeed a alot of people in denial, but thats nothing new, saw it before and seen it now :p

sam
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No denying that the 4870x2 will be THE high end card this summer. Great price, great performance. Don't see how that can be denied.:)
 
Kowan said:
Since summer's end is approaching... :p
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There's still two months left. And I have to imagine that nVidia is going to have at least 55nm GTX parts this fall with some good prices to respond to AMD. But maybe they will just wait it out and launch next year something killer.
 
the only way i see nvidia being competitive in the near future is to come out with a 55nm gtx 280 that's a good bit faster than the 65nm 280 priced at ~$350. Otherwise there's no reason to go nvidia when you can get more for your money with ATI. Of course if you have unlimited funds and a SLI motherboard then youll still go with nvidia anyway.
 
myndcrime said:
the only way i see nvidia being competitive in the near future is to come out with a 55nm gtx 280 that's a good bit faster than the 65nm 280 priced at ~$350. Otherwise there's no reason to go nvidia when you can get more for your money with ATI. Of course if you have unlimited funds and a SLI motherboard then youll still go with nvidia anyway.
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The current GTX 280 will probably hit $350 in the next month. Assuming that the 4870x2 is $500+, that ain't a bad price.

It's kind of funny in a way, because of the nVidia price cuts, the 4800 is still a great buy, but nothing like they were on launch day compare the GTX's. Add the GTX 260 to mix and nVidia is very competitive at in the middle.

Not being a fanboy, AMD should have the performance crown in short order. For how long will be the interesting part.
 
heatlesssun said:
I agree with the performance vs. price argument. However my point was to build a very fast rig with a $5000 budget. I already had the motherboard for 3x SLI months ago. And we still don't have the 4870x2 quite yet. So I didn't want to wait another two months for something I'd started building two months prior to that. And my guess is that once the 4870x2 comes out, it'll be trumped in a few months as well. This is going to be a short generation I believe on both sides.

And by next month the price difference between 4870x2 CF and GTX 280 3x SLI is going to smaller than it looks now I bet, $100 bucks tops by the end of the month I bet.
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Ok, well on a 5000 budget and if you basically want the highest performance on the street right this minute, gtx280 tri is reasonable. I think if I went that route, I'd probably buy waterblocks for all three of them, and a water cooling kit. Still can't justify spending that much on a system when you can run 4870x2 crossfire X and perhaps achieve better performance....by waiting out a couple of weeks. I'd like to see some more comparisons of 4870x2 CF Vs. GTX280 Tri SLi.
 
BigCactus said:
Still can't justify spending that much on a system when you can run 4870x2 crossfire X and perhaps achieve better performance....by waiting out a couple of weeks.
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Well, in heatlesssun's case, he had already been waiting to finish his build for a while when the 280s were released. Lately, it seems that, if you can wait 30 days (or even sometimes less!), there's always something better coming out. Good overall for the consumer, though it makes it slightly hard to decide when to pounce. :)
 
this years big titles in terms of graphics aren't out yet, and are mostly coming in the 4th quarter, so I don't see the big hurry to upgrade right now. My 8800 gtx can still keep up with every game at 1920x1200.

But I guess if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to play Crysis (again) on very high RIGHT NOW then .. go for it...
 
myndcrime said:
this years big titles in terms of graphics aren't out yet, and are mostly coming in the 4th quarter, so I don't see the big hurry to upgrade right now. My 8800 gtx can still keep up with every game at 1920x1200.

But I guess if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to play Crysis (again) on very high RIGHT NOW then .. go for it...
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2nd
 
BigCactus said:
Ok, well on a 5000 budget and if you basically want the highest performance on the street right this minute, gtx280 tri is reasonable. I think if I went that route, I'd probably buy waterblocks for all three of them, and a water cooling kit. Still can't justify spending that much on a system when you can run 4870x2 crossfire X and perhaps achieve better performance....by waiting out a couple of weeks. I'd like to see some more comparisons of 4870x2 CF Vs. GTX280 Tri SLi.
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It's more like a couple of months waiting for the 4870x2 after the GTX 280.

Don't get me wrong, I want the best that I can afford and certainly the 4870x2 looks to be the best. But at the same one can always wait for something better to come along, its simply a matter of time. I usually don't go for high end stuff unless I'm looking to run it for a while. In this case I really would like to get about 18 months of high end performance before I upgrade again, at least the motherboard and CPU because I won't to wait for Windows 7. Nehalem is going to be great but its not going to blow my sig rig out of the water, at least not by this fall.

Price is obviously important, but there are other factors when putting together a system. I've had absolute success with the setup and though it cost a bit more than 4870x2 CF, 4870x2 CF isn't going to offer any noticeable performance increase over what I will have had TWO months before 4870x2 CF and in some cases its going to be a little slower. Now if I were a big AoC I might think a little differently. I wonder how that runs with 3x SLI.
 
alg7_munif said:
GT200 is bigger than two RV770 combined:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1032744383#post1032744383

Your argument is like saying that Intel needs two dual core CPUs (MCM design) to do what AMD did with one native quad core.
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He definitely has a point here. nVidia still has the better technology. nVidia will have a 55nm GT200 later this year and they'll probably make a GX2 version of the GTX 280...and that'll be it, ATi will have absolutely no way to catch up. They have no new chip coming this year, they're already at 55nm, and they already have 2 chips on a card.

Not to take anything away from ATi, they're doing very well. They've played the RV770 hand very smoothly and they're currently reaping the benefits...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
He definitely has a point here. nVidia still has the better technology. nVidia will have a 55nm GT200 later this year and they'll probably make a GX2 version of the GTX 280...and that'll be it, ATi will have absolutely no way to catch up. They have no new chip coming this year, they're already at 55nm, and they already have 2 chips on a card.

Not to take anything away from ATi, they're doing very well. They've played the RV770 hand very smoothly and they're currently reaping the benefits...
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I wouldn't go so far to say that Nvidia has the better technology - if anything, the fact that ATI did as much as they did with in that amount of space versus Nvidia, as well as how many changes in architecture they actually implemented, tells me that ATI still has a lot up their sleeves.

Anyways, a GX2 type card is going to be hard to come by - this isn't 90nm to 65nm a'la G80 to G92, this is 65nm to 55nm which is just an optical shrink. If they took two 55nm GTX260's and downclocked them they might have a GX2 solution but optical shrinks are primarily to save money by decreasing die size, as actual voltage and power in the die doesn't change a lot compared to a real shrink (such as 65/55nm to 45/40nm).
 
^eMpTy^ said:
He definitely has a point here. nVidia still has the better technology. nVidia will have a 55nm GT200 later this year and they'll probably make a GX2 version of the GTX 280...and that'll be it, ATi will have absolutely no way to catch up. They have no new chip coming this year, they're already at 55nm, and they already have 2 chips on a card.

Not to take anything away from ATi, they're doing very well. They've played the RV770 hand very smoothly and they're currently reaping the benefits...
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It never ends. I wouldn't mail it in just yet. RV870
How much is a GT280x2 card going to cost to produce vs profit? It will probably need to stay under $550 to stay competitive. Just don't see your prediction happening.
 
awesome card. i was tempted to get a 4850 when it came out, then i saw the 4870 reviews and i was almost sold, but i have no money :/
 
kadozer said:
It never ends. I wouldn't mail it in just yet. RV870
How much is a GT280x2 card going to cost to produce vs profit? It will probably need to stay under $550 to stay competitive. Just don't see your prediction happening.
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There go my plans to max out and get a 4870x2. Might as well wait for a 2000 shader processor monster.
 
I already sent my 4870 in, and am using my $25 evga 6200 LE in the mean time. Still got my xbox 360 on the side so no worries. Upgrading never ends. Might be best to go with a single 4870 1GB version. If it comes out at $299, snatch one up, slap an accelero on it, and don't upgrade for four years. That way when you do upgrade, you'll be blown away from the increase in performance. That's what I'm contemplating on doing :D
 
Just added more reviews on the first page...pretty much all reviews say the same thing...4870x2 pretty much dominates for the most part with the exception of crysis.
 
Pretty much the only concern I have for the 4870X2 is it has no physics support. However, if the PhysX that nVidia has is only good for the PhysX encoded into games, and doesn't do all physics by default, I don't see it as a big loss for ATi. Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
there is physics support and it is called 'havoc' plus i don't think that game companies will make nvidia card exclusive game
 
Aye, why would a gaming company go with phyx and only cater to Nv cards when by using havoc they cater to both?
 
Anyways, in the advent of phyx getting implemented in more than a few games, im sure Ati will have an answer to that scenario like they always do.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
He definitely has a point here. nVidia still has the better technology. nVidia will have a 55nm GT200 later this year and they'll probably make a GX2 version of the GTX 280...and that'll be it, ATi will have absolutely no way to catch up. They have no new chip coming this year, they're already at 55nm, and they already have 2 chips on a card.

Not to take anything away from ATi, they're doing very well. They've played the RV770 hand very smoothly and they're currently reaping the benefits...
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His point a big one. GT200 is twice as big as a RV770.
That's more a cost problem in less chips per waver and the yield and bin are low.
The idea was to get performance crown with raw power.
Better technology? It's DX10.0 not DX10,1. What nV brings is just raw power. By high transistor count. The tech isn't better they have just more logic in numbers wich can do more. 400+ miljoen extra to push more pixels. But that comes with a cost. Diespace and power consumption.

So the transistor count is 1,5 bigger.
Wat will 65nm to 55nm bring?
GT200B would still be a bigger chip and draw more power then a RV770.

RV770 pulls 160 wat at <1miljard transistors on 55nm.
GT200 pulls 236watts at 1,4 miljard transistors on 65nm.
65 to 55nm isn't that big step its rather small.
GT200B pulLs ?x? Watts at 1,4 miljard transistors on 55nm
So it get a bit smalle but still bigger then RV770, around 1,4 the size.
It power draw get lesser but somewhere inbetween 160 < - >x< - > 236.

So x would be roughly somewhere around 200Watts.
So a GTX280x2 still isn't that praktical, even with GT200B. It would draw around 400Watts.
A bit less is still to much. 300Watt would be nice to be competive in that powerdraw part.
But they could do a GTX260x2 with GT200B.
Or something in between. Depends on wich power ceiling they take. 300Watt. And adjust clocks and Vcores to get there. A somthing like a GTX270x2.ish
 
Brahmzy said:
Good question. I need to replace my 8800GTX ASAP. Getting antsy.
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I'm in the Same Position, My MSI T2D768 8800 Ultra OC has started to Lock up in Games, though I'm not sure if it's a Overheating/O'clocking Problem or if it's something inherently wrong with the 8800 .080u Architecture. It's just not as stable as it has been, and I do keep up with Drivers, etc. so it may be Drivers.

In either Case, I'm going to pick up a 4870 X2 as soon as I can for my P35 Board and move the 9600 GT over to the SLI Box, and wait for Nvidia's next iteration and see what shakes out.

Damn, that 8800 Ultra has been a Fantastic Card for well over 15 Months, would hate to retire it.
 
BigCactus said:
Hmmmm...like AA improvement...according to [h]

"Above we saw that 8X AA was basically free in Conan with the 4870 X2, now we throw

12X CFAA and 24X CFAA into the mix. This graph clearly shows us that we don’t hit a

GPU burden until we enable 24X CFAA in Age of Conan on the Radeon HD 4870 X2 at

1920x1200. Just, wow."

That's right, come and get your free AA :)
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Pretty sure ppl have been questioning why the [H] was trumpeting about CFAA but not using CSAA on the GTX 280s. Just saying.

ApaThy_NeXT2 said:
Get your priorities straight. Its all about performance for the dollar.
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True, and looks like the GTX 280 will be cheaper, talk about some price/performance.
 
Anyone else amused by the misguided devotion and loyalty to a piece of hardware? (both sides) /popcorn
 
OpStar said:
Pretty sure ppl have been questioning why the [H] was trumpeting about CFAA but not using CSAA on the GTX 280s. Just saying.



True, and looks like the GTX 280 will be cheaper, talk about some price/performance.
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They used the highest possible AA settings for each card in AOC. 4870x2 allowed for higher AA.

GTX280 has to be cheaper given the performance of the 4870x2. GTX280 should actually be priced at $250-$300 to really compete. I don't see the price dropping that low, but you never know, Nvidia has got a lot of money in the bank from what I hear. Whatever the case, it's great for us, the consumer. :)
 
BigCactus said:
They used the highest possible AA settings for each card in AOC. 4870x2 allowed for higher AA.

GTX280 has to be cheaper given the performance of the 4870x2. GTX280 should actually be priced at $250-$300 to really compete. I don't see the price dropping that low, but you never know, Nvidia has got a lot of money in the bank from what I hear. Whatever the case, it's great for us, the consumer. :)
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I think that $350 would be an excellent price for the GTX 280. At $250, its a steal. The 4850 would have to $100, some models are close, and the 4870 would have to go to about $200, and the 4870x2 starts looking like an overpriced card all of a sudden.

Yeah, nVidia has cash on hand, where as AMD has none, so yes nVidia is able to eat some cost on these cards until next gen, as they have already on the GTX 280's.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think that $350 would be an excellent price for the GTX 280. At $250, its a steal. The 4850 would have to $100, some models are close, and the 4870 would have to go to about $200, and the 4870x2 starts looking like an overpriced card all of a sudden.

Yeah, nVidia has cash on hand, where as AMD has none, so yes nVidia is able to eat some cost on these cards until next gen, as they have already on the GTX 280's.
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As far as sales go, gtx280 has to come down severely, retailers are doing their best to move these cards but I guess people know the jig is up once spartan comes out.

Nvidia might be able to match the price point of the 4870x2...though I do have some doubts they could drop it to $250...but the Advantage of the 4870x2 over a GTX280 SLi set up however is paramount, and cannot be isolated to price point alone:

On one hand if you go with gtx280i SLi, you have to have a nvidia motherboard. If find their boards to be flakey and unstable.

4870x2 is on one PCB, you can have either or...and intel chipset based motherboards I find to be more stable and reliable if you choose to go crossfire X.

GTX280 SLi will consume more watts and therefore produce more heat than a 4870x2. Many have complained about temp issues with GTX280s reaching 105c. 55nm vs 90nm.

4870x2 is one card, gtx280 sli is two cards.

Just another perspective to look at.
 
BigCactus said:
As far as sales go, gtx280 has to come down severely, retailers are doing their best to move these cards but I guess people know the jig is up once spartan comes out.

Nvidia might be able to match the price point of the 4870x2...though I do have some doubts they could drop it to $250...but the Advantage of the 4870x2 over a GTX280 SLi set up however is paramount, and cannot be isolated to price point alone:

On one hand if you go with gtx280i SLi, you have to have a nvidia motherboard. If find their boards to be flakey and unstable.

4870x2 is on one PCB, you can have either or...and intel chipset based motherboards I find to be more stable and reliable if you choose to go crossfire X.

GTX280 SLi will consume more watts and therefore produce more heat than a 4870x2. Many have complained about temp issues with GTX280s reaching 105c. 55nm vs 90nm.

4870x2 is one card, gtx280 sli is two cards.

Just another perspective to look at.
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Some valid points. The GT 200 is a 65nm, not 90nm chip. As far as thermals, I've not had any problems with three GTX 280's in a mid tower case overheating, so there might be a quality control problem going on. I did have to RMA on of my 280's but I don't think it was heat related. I've seen a lot of talk of 4800 heat problems as well, I don't think that AMD is free of the problem.

As for the power consumption, actually overall GTX 280 SLI might be better because it great low power idling. The previews had some very scary idle numbers for the 4870x2 but that's supposed to be fixed with a BIOS update.

As for nVidia boards, it seems to be hit or miss. This Asus Striker II Extreme 790 Ultra kicks ass. Not a single problem with it, but I', not doing FSB overclocking and the memory is at stock.
 
heatlesssun said:
As for nVidia boards, it seems to be hit or miss. This Asus Striker II Extreme 790 Ultra kicks ass. Not a single problem with it, but I', not doing FSB overclocking and the memory is at stock.
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Holy **** your mobo managed to get 3 stars at newegg.
Say whatever you want to, but you may have turned out to be very lucky with your striker II extreme.
 
The new BIOS for my 790i made it even better. I love this board, I think 95% of all the complaints about these Nvidia boards are from people who dont know what the hell they are doing. Granted, they did have their problems, but I just cant see a major corporation like Nvidia releasing stuff that was shit.
 
SDMorris said:
The new BIOS for my 790i made it even better. I love this board, I think 95% of all the complaints about these Nvidia boards are from people who dont know what the hell they are doing. Granted, they did have their problems, but I just cant see a major corporation like Nvidia releasing stuff that was shit.
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fact is they did dude... 680i's burned thru so much RAM its ridiculous.
 
myndcrime said:
the only way i see nvidia being competitive in the near future is to come out with a 55nm gtx 280 that's a good bit faster than the 65nm 280 priced at ~$350. Otherwise there's no reason to go nvidia when you can get more for your money with ATI. Of course if you have unlimited funds and a SLI motherboard then youll still go with nvidia anyway.
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which is stupid because 2 4870x2's should run with 3 SLI'd GTX280's
 
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