$60 the new $50? PC Games

LOL i've paid 105$CAD for WaveRace at it's release. It was back then with the dollars was worth 0.65$ US. But i've never paid that much for a game ever.

Usually i pay top 30$.. unless it's a must have right now title...
 
No, actually it doesn't. You're making connections where none exist. Publishers profit margins might be better, that doesn't mean PC games now cost more. The same $60 you spend for a console game will buy you a $60 PC game.
it does cost more. I am not saying the $60 is justified but for pc you get all types of problems resulting from different hardware and software. developers regularly get ripped on these issues and a lot of time is spent fixing problems that only occur in a few %.
 
it does cost more. I am not saying the $60 is justified but for pc you get all types of problems resulting from different hardware and software. developers regularly get ripped on these issues and a lot of time is spent fixing problems that only occur in a few %.

The person I quoted was talking about costs to the consumer and that's what I was responding to. He implied since publishers don't have to pay royalties that now suddenly PC games cost more because they're $60 (matching consoles). I'm aware that development costs are higher.
 
People like to stand on principle. For me, it's a matter of practicality: I'm not going to pay $60 for Dead Space 2 or Assassin's Creed Brotherhood because I'm going to play the single player once and forget they even exist. I also wouldn't pay $50 or $40 for them if that was the price on release. Now, despite what everyone says about the CoD series, I still immensely enjoy their multiplayer and get plenty of playtime off of it, so in the end, my gameplay/cost ratio barely changes.
 
No, actually it doesn't. You're making connections where none exist. Publishers profit margins might be better, that doesn't mean PC games now cost more. The same $60 you spend for a console game will buy you a $60 PC game.

What I'm saying is that the publishers are charging PC gamers the same price as console games, but without having to pay the royalty, thus we are getting charged MORE for less in terms of what the publishers has to pay out.

Yes it's the same number, but the publisher is charging us the same for something that costs them less to make vs the console version in sales. Not to mention how the pc market has shifted to digital sales, which take out on top of no royalty fees also a much lower cost in terms of no cd/box/packaging fees and lowered cost of digital store space.
 
I paid 90 dollars for Phantasy Star 2 twenty years or so ago. Think it was for the Sega Genesis.

Didn't read too many posts, but I can deal with 60 dollar prices for AAA titles. Like Dragon Age. LOTS of replay value and the such. But games like CODBO...please. I can wait till it's 10 bucks on Steam.
 
What I'm saying is that the publishers are charging PC gamers the same price as console games, but without having to pay the royalty, thus we are getting charged MORE for less in terms of what the publishers has to pay out.

Yes it's the same number, but the publisher is charging us the same for something that costs them less to make vs the console version in sales. Not to mention how the pc market has shifted to digital sales, which take out on top of no royalty fees also a much lower cost in terms of no cd/box/packaging fees and lowered cost of digital store space.

It's been shifting but there's still plenty of action and faster/more aggressive discounting on the retail side.

I can buy a new $60 MSRP AAA title off of Amazon typically for $55-$56 shipped right off the bat and that's before any promotions. The Gaming places that Goes? Same thing.


Some people are so devoted to Steam come hell or high water, hell, you can get a AAA title for a fairly nice discount or price drop a month after it streets via retail while it sits at full price on Steam for months and months.

The digital outlets like Steam take WAY longer to have their prices go down and start kicking in the sales vs. the retail side. I've always marveled how relatively fast the prices drop on PC games after they street at least on the retail side. If it's a multiplatform title, the console versions sit at $60 for a seeming eternity in contrast.

Wallets first, folks.
 
What I'm saying is that the publishers are charging PC gamers the same price as console games, but without having to pay the royalty, thus we are getting charged MORE for less in terms of what the publishers has to pay out.

Yes it's the same number, but the publisher is charging us the same for something that costs them less to make vs the console version in sales. Not to mention how the pc market has shifted to digital sales, which take out on top of no royalty fees also a much lower cost in terms of no cd/box/packaging fees and lowered cost of digital store space.

So Steam, D2D or any other cloud based distribution service doesn't charge royalties? I somehow doubt that very much.
 
So Steam, D2D or any other cloud based distribution service doesn't charge royalties? I somehow doubt that very much.
Those are publishing fees. Console games have publishing fees as well. However, console publishers also have to pay console manufacturers large amounts of money for certification, and if the game happens to fail certification, then the devs need to fix the game and then pay again to send it back to certification. Those fees do not exist for PC games.
 
When you have 150+ games, that extra $10-15 makes a difference. The money saved can be used for more hardware.
 
What I'm saying is that the publishers are charging PC gamers the same price as console games, but without having to pay the royalty, thus we are getting charged MORE for less in terms of what the publishers has to pay out.

Yes it's the same number, but the publisher is charging us the same for something that costs them less to make vs the console version in sales. Not to mention how the pc market has shifted to digital sales, which take out on top of no royalty fees also a much lower cost in terms of no cd/box/packaging fees and lowered cost of digital store space.

I know what you were TRYING to say but what you said was wrong, plan and simple. The games cost more than they use to, they do NOT cost us consumers more then console games regardless of who the publishers need or need not pay off.
 
Some of you almost make it sound like that amount of money ($5-$15) is going to make or break your asses. If that's really the case then you obviously have some much more serious problems than buying videogames. Obviously I don't buy that for a second with anyone posting on a forum like this.

Multiplying $15 by the amount of games I buy in a year and considering that everything is bought with post-tax money, it's easily a couple grand a year pretax. That's a significant amount.

It's usually a lot bigger than that though. I usually get most PC games pretty soon after release for $10-$25 on ebay, or buy them later for $5-$10 on steam. So my pretax earnings would need to increase by $10k or so just to pay $60msrp for the games I buy in a year.
 
Multiplying $15 by the amount of games I buy in a year and considering that everything is bought with post-tax money, it's easily a couple grand a year pretax. That's a significant amount.

It's usually a lot bigger than that though. I usually get most PC games pretty soon after release for $10-$25 on ebay, or buy them later for $5-$10 on steam. So my pretax earnings would need to increase by $10k or so just to pay $60msrp for the games I buy in a year.

You buy almost 200 games a year?
 
So Steam, D2D or any other cloud based distribution service doesn't charge royalties? I somehow doubt that very much.

They charge fee's, similar to a store (like say wal mart) but they are generally less then a store charges and takes out of sales. On top of this you do not have to produce boxes/cds/manauals and then have them shipped, so that is more savings.

However for consoles, you have to pay Sony/MS/Nintendo a royalty to get your game released on their system. You do NOT have this "royalty" on the pc market. Tack this onto costs of store fees, packaging costs and distribution to stores, it's quite a difference in terms of what the publisher has to cut from sales compared to pc.

So in the end, they are now seeing more per-unit profit from PC games then console games easily. The price to release a game on Steam or D2D, etc is far less then a store, yet that price is being pocketed by the publisher and we are still paying more then ever.
 
It's not the fact that spending that extra money will break my budget it's the fact that depending on game length I just won't feel like I got a very good value for my dollar. I suppose it's the same reason I tend to avoid movie theatres except for the one or two movies a year I really want to see. I feel like it is a waste of money. I would imagine the people with 5k rigs are the same way, they could easily afford the cost but it feels like a really crappy value.
 
I remember paying close to $60 for Twinsen's Odyssey way back in 1996, so I guess $60 today shouldn't be such a big deal. But I have not spent that much on a game since then, with the closest being Bioshock 2 at $35 for a 4 pack on Steam shared with 3 of my friends. I do want Dead Space 2, but not at $60. But I doubt it will go on sale anytime soon so I may have to pay whether I like it or not....
 
so far EA is doing it, they can set the price as high as they want as long as there are loyal customer behind it.

What can you do about it? just not buy it.. how simple that is..

To me, if they just tag 60 on a game and kept adding on free DLC and patches later on, sure why not. 60 and still charging like 10 dollar a piece of shit DLC that doesn't even worth 30 min to an hour is just piece of garbage...
 
But then I see the thousands of dollars of hardware in your sigs. ;) What the hell is $5-$15 to anyone on a forum like this? Who are you all kidding? ;)

The whole thing just kind of makes me chuckle, that's all. :)

The difference there is that when someone drops a heap of money to upgrade their PC, they get an instant and noticeable performance boost, i.e. they get something tangible for the extra money.

What does the extra $10 for these titles get gamers? The only example I can think of where the extra $10 went somewhere was Assassins Creed II, since the PC version came with DLC.

Sure, an extra $10 won't break a lot of people's banks here...it's the principle of an unjustified price-gouge that I am protesting. If the extra $10 means we get an awesome experience on the PC then there's no problem, but when it's for a game like CODMW2 that had less functionality and value than its $50 predecessors then it's a bit ridiculous.
 
What is everyone's thoughts on this?
Don't care for it. They're charging what the market can bear, apparently, but given the current state of the market, there's no particular driving force behind it. I'm of the opinion that if you're going to raise the price of your products, there should be a compelling reason for it. In this case, I don't believe there is one.
 
IMHO,
There are quite a few different arguments going here. I'll throw my 2 cents on each one separately. I don't follow the argument that we are paying more for games now than we used to. Like many have said, console games 10+ years ago were $60, some even higher. Nowadays the only games costing more are special editions. No matter where that money goes (licensing for consoles, discs, boxes, manuals, developers, distributors...) it still costs the consumer $60. Considering the rise in price for just about everything else due to inflation, I feel we're doing okay with prices staying relatively constant over the last decade.

Then there's the argument over what that $60 gets you. If I don't think a game is worth $60 I don't buy it. I'm not saying it should be cheaper, because it may be worth $60 to someone, just not me. There were crap games 10 years ago that were $60 and I didn't buy those either. As far as I can see, development costs for games (good or bad ones) keep rising. For right now, that rise hasn't been transferred to us. I don't feel we owe the developers anything, but I don't think they owe it to us to charge less for games.

Finally there's the PC vs console game argument. I think the consensus here is that consoles are getting all the love from developers while PC gamers are getting the short straw. If we say a game is $60 on PC and console, that means the dev in theory should be making more from each individual PC sale. Should the dev make less money because I chose to buy it on the PC? If I'm bent out of shape because devs are focusing on consoles shouldn't I be willing to spend that $60 dollars, theoretically paying them more, to prove to them that developing for PC is worth it? Given that a large number of games are cross platform (PC/console), I think we PC gamers might be asking too much when we demand a game have a myriad of improvements over the console version (things that cost time/money) and we want to pay less money for it. It begs the question why, as a developer would I go out of my way to please PC gamers. If our real concern is that the game isn't worth $60, then it's not worth it on console or PC.

In the end it always comes down to what a game is worth to you. I buy NBA2Kxx every year, and I get 200+ hours out of it. I don't want the devs to stop producing the series so I pay that $60 a year to keep them in business. I'll pay $60 for a game with a 12-15 hour single player campaign. No matter how good a game's 5 hour campaign is, it's not worth $60 to me so I'll wait for a deal. If a game is $60 on PC and consoles, I'm buying whichever gives me the best experience, and I'm hoping it's the PC because that extra money in the devs pocket is the only incentive they have to keep developing on PC. For my general entertainment, I get less for my $60 today than I did with my $50 10 years ago, except when it comes to games. Seems like a good deal :p
 
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As far as I can see, development costs for games (good or bad ones) keep rising. For right now, that rise hasn't been transferred to us.
It has to some extent. DLC played a major role in the 2008-2009 revenue increase, according to the PCGA. Revenue for PC games in 2009 hit $13.1B versus $11B in 2008. Annual revenues of $13.1B certainly make this a not unsubstantial industry.

Should the dev make less money because I chose to buy it on the PC?
They don't make less money if the PC variant is priced $10 less than the X360/PS3 variant as the cost difference doesn't line the publisher's coffers: It goes to Microsoft/Sony.
 
IMHO,
If I'm bent out of shape because devs are focusing on consoles shouldn't I be willing to spend that $60 dollars, theoretically paying them more, to prove to them that developing for PC is worth it?

If a wife is upset about her husband beating her because she doesn't give enough head, should she give him a BJ to prove she's worth keeping around? Or should she leave the abusive relationship? Right now a lot of companies are treating PC gamers in a very abusive manner and your solution is "thank you sir can I have another" rather than taking a stand and refusing to support the companies that don't support the platform.
 
Should the dev make less money because I chose to buy it on the PC? If I'm bent out of shape because devs are focusing on consoles shouldn't I be willing to spend that $60 dollars, theoretically paying them more, to prove to them that developing for PC is worth it? Given that a large number of games are cross platform (PC/console), I think we PC gamers might be asking too much when we demand a game have a myriad of improvements over the console version (things that cost time/money) and we want to pay less money for it. It begs the question why, as a developer would I go out of my way to please PC gamers. If our real concern is that the game isn't worth $60, then it's not worth it on console or PC.

You make a good point about the cross-platform bit, but we've seen many cases in the last couple of years where the PC version of multiplatform games have not only forgone PC-exclusive extras like EAX and PhysX, but have broken widescreen issues, poor mouse controls, tiny FOVs and awkward interfaces that were designed for analog sticks and shoulder-buttons, not mice.

I will say it for the last time - $60 for a game that runs well on the PC, feels like a PC game and is well supported by the developer afterwards is definitely not a bad buy. Customers feel like they've got their money's worth and the developer is encouraged to keep up the good work by increased revenue. It is bad for token-gesture ports - the consoles have the games all tailored to work perfectly on their systems...why should the PC be any different?
 
Should the dev make less money because I chose to buy it on the PC?
Profit per copy sold is higher for PC games compared to console games, even at $50 versus $60. PC development costs are also often cheaper.
 
I noticed lately that more and more games on steam are starting at $60, why is this? And why now? What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Ah, those prices must be Activision, I generally skip those asking for that ridiculous amount of money, give them a few months to drop, especially as there will be a super leet edition a few months down the road, with all the DLC for the same price.
 
For 9 out of 10 games that I'm interested in, the initial sticker price is meaningless. I'm not going to buy anything but the absolute best multiplayer games for close to full retail. If they want to charge $60 at launch instead of $50 then they'll just have to wait longer for my $20 (or less) once the price drops.

I'm frugal, patient and have an insurmountable backlog. The EA's, Activision's and Ubi's of the world can all suck it as far as I'm concerned.
 
Profit per copy sold is higher for PC games compared to console games, even at $50 versus $60. PC development costs are also often cheaper.

I'd be curious to know where you're getting this info from or if it's just guess work. Particularly I would like to know how you can be so intimately familiar with the profit margins to claim that the PC is higher even at $50 vs $60.
 
I'd be curious to know where you're getting this info from or if it's just guess work. Particularly I would like to know how you can be so intimately familiar with the profit margins to claim that the PC is higher even at $50 vs $60.

If I am correct, license fee take a huge part of it.. which is the console platform that is charging it..
 
I noticed lately that more and more games on steam are starting at $60, why is this? And why now? What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Inflation, money......yes $60 is the going rate these days. I never or maybe once ever paid $60 for a video game. I have no problem finding something else to play until a game I want hits $20 or less. Case in point, I only got Crysis a year or so ago and waited till Warhead was $15.
 
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Profit per copy sold is higher for PC games compared to console games, even at $50 versus $60. PC development costs are also often cheaper.

Makes no sense. PC's are different, they need more patches to work for more PCs. One change could break another PC(Because of the different parts in PCs). All 360s are the same and all PS3's are the same, so its much easier to patch that.

Explain why you think differently.
 
Makes no sense. PC's are different, they need more patches to work for more PCs. One change could break another PC(Because of the different parts in PCs). All 360s are the same and all PS3's are the same, so its much easier to patch that.

Explain why you think differently.

There is something call "DRIVER" issue. It's not part of developer's job when its driver issue. :rolleyes:

btw, there are tons of console games that are buggy ass hell, such as Ninja Gaiden....
Did they ever fix it? :p
 
Makes no sense. PC's are different, they need more patches to work for more PCs. One change could break another PC(Because of the different parts in PCs). All 360s are the same and all PS3's are the same, so its much easier to patch that.

Explain why you think differently.

Eh, not really. PC games all write for dx9-10-11 api's, it is up to the video card manufacturer to make sure their drivers don't cause the bugs. PC hardware/drivers are much much more universally accepted than even 5 years ago.

Actually, it is the console games that tend to be supported a whole lot worse. You don't nearly get as many patches, if any at all, for console games. Even multiplatform games are created on the PC.

RDR is a good example. That game still is buggy as fuck, and it never touched the PC.
 
Curious, how would PC dev cost be lower?
Console development kits are expensive, you need to use the console manufacturer's own development tools, you need to train people to be familiar with requirements specific to certain consoles (each manufacturer has an extensive list of requirements that all games must comply with to pass certification), sending games in for certification is very expensive, etc.
I'd be curious to know where you're getting this info from or if it's just guess work. Particularly I would like to know how you can be so intimately familiar with the profit margins to claim that the PC is higher even at $50 vs $60.
I won't pretend to know exact numbers, but my information comes from talking to people who are intimately familiar with this kind of stuff.
If I am correct, license fee take a huge part of it.. which is the console platform that is charging it..
Yes.
Makes no sense. PC's are different, they need more patches to work for more PCs. One change could break another PC(Because of the different parts in PCs). All 360s are the same and all PS3's are the same, so its much easier to patch that.

Explain why you think differently.
PCs aren't a development wasteland like you're making them out to be. Regardless of hardware variations, the way a game interfaces with your hardware is done through standard APIs. If the game code will work fine on one machine, it will work fine on most other ones as well. It's up to hardware manufacturers to write proper drivers so there aren't any issues with games, but that isn't the responsibility of the developers. And then you have manufacturer/developer partner programs like nVidia's The Way It's Meant To Be Played and ATI's equivalent, which go a step further in making games run better and be more compatible with hardware.

When it comes to post-release support, PCs are also far superior. A developer can push out a PC patch whenever they want, but if they want to patch a console game, it has to go through Sony or Microsoft's certification process, which takes more time and costs more money.
 
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Eh, not really. PC games all write for dx9-10-11 api's, it is up to the video card manufacturer to make sure their drivers don't cause the bugs. PC hardware/drivers are much much more universally accepted than even 5 years ago.
Very true. Things aren't always as straightforward as they might seem, though — the more research I do into the aspect of game programming, the more I'm coming to the understanding that it's not quite as elegant as it would appear to be on the surface. The APIs address a large chunk of compatibility issues (because that was, and still is, the goal of DirectX), but not absolutely everything. The prospect of documenting precisely how things work in the APIs is an insurmountable task, even for a company as large as Microsoft. And when you add in the potential of slight quirks in hardware drivers, things tend to become a pretty big mess on occasion.

In reality, Microsoft's developer documentation tends to be pretty terrible. Not significantly worse than OpenGL/OpenAL/other APIs and middleware, but not significantly better either, which makes 'portable' development very challenging.
 
Inflation, money......yes $60 is the going rate these days. I never or maybe once ever paid $60 for a video game. I have no problem finding something else to play until a game I want hits $20 or less. Case in point, I only got Crysis a year or so ago and waited till Warhead was $15.

How do you like Crysis? Would you recommend others picking it up?
 
I'm not a big fan of game prices going up. I'm just a consumer, I dont want to rationalize why they do.. I just don't like it. So ... I'll continue to buy games on sale and get them for < $20.
 
If I am correct, license fee take a huge part of it.. which is the console platform that is charging it..

I don't doubt that, but we also don't know how much. I also don't think development costs are cheaper. PC games more often then not require lots of development even after release to address bugs and compatibility issues. Yes, consoles get patches also but their issues are easy and quick to identify since you're dealing with a single set of standardized hardware.
 
I have no problem paying $60 for an awesome game nowadays. What pisses me off is when it's actually a $60 turd.
 
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