9800 GX2 is currenty the best choice for high end

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mbmadness

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Looking at the high end market, we have several choices. Go with 280 SLI costing $1200 for the video cards alone, which is really out of reach for most. We'll reserve that for the extreme high end. So, looking at the realistic choices for most of us, we can go with a single 280, 9800 GTS SLI, 9800 GX2 or 4850 CF. All offer about the same level of performance. However, most of us run Intel CPUs and would prefer Intel chipsets. So, that knocks out the 9800 GTS SLI and any other NVIDIA SLI solution. The 280 costs $640 at Newegg. So, that makes it too expensive compared to the GX2 and 4850 CF. AMD 4850 CF costs $400 + an X38 motherboard for $170 for a total of $570. GX2 goes for $415 the MSI version at Newegg, which you can pair with a P35 for about $100 for a total of $515.

It's a pretty close race in price and performance between the 4850 CF with X38 and the 9800 GX2 with P35. Both are excellent choices. But IMO the 9800 GX2 has the edge because it costs less and it's drivers are mature. You can see this in Anandtech's preview where some of the SLI vs. CF benchmarks show no improvement in performance for one 4850 vs. 4850 CF. AMD needs some time to tweak the drivers.

With that said, I think that with the R700 and RV7700 XT around the corner, NVIDIA had better open up SLI to Intel chipsets. High end enthusiasts will no longer have to be backed into SLI and NVIDIA chipsets to get high end graphics performance. I believe most enthusiasts will go with Intel chipsets and high end ATI graphics cards in crossfire configuration that match their NIVIDA rivals in performance but have the stability of Intel chipsets.
 
GTX 280>4850 CF>9800 GX2.

With the GTX 280, you don't have to worry about problems arising with multi-GPU configurations such as microstuttering and scalability issues.

Also, the GTX 280 is indeed faster than the 9800 GX2 overall, especially in real-time game play.
 
4850CF costs $400?

odd cus my receipt from best buy for 2 hd 4850s says $293 on it.

and drivers being mature for the 9800gx2 is all well and good. but those of us with a 4800 card can only expect to see performance increase over the coming months.
 
Yeah, I don't think you're considering a couple points.

The 4850's are being bought for less than that.

And the fact that the drivers are immature and still perform fairly strong, is an advantage over mature drivers that aren't going to improve much in the near future.
 
soon the nVIDIA is gonna forget about the 9800GX2, in a couple of months there will be no more support or optimizations for this card.

just like the way it happened to the Geforce 7900GX2
 
soon the nVIDIA is gonna forget about the 9800GX2, in a couple of months there will be no more support or optimizations for this card.

just like the way it happened to the Geforce 7900GX2
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My understanding is that 9800GX2 drivers rely on SLI which will still be supported by NVIDIA in a couple of months.
Issues will arise with Windows 7 (or a new DirectX version) but owners should be alright in the meantime.
 
Salavat23 said:
GTX 280>4850 CF>9800 GX2.

With the GTX 280, you don't have to worry about problems arising with multi-GPU configurations such as microstuttering and scalability issues.

Also, the GTX 280 is indeed faster than the 9800 GX2 overall, especially in real-time game play.
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Yup, and the huge memory bandwidth/capacity makes for some great antialiasing/anisotropic filtering levels :D without losing much in the way of framerate.
 
just like the way it happened to the Geforce 7900GX2
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You mean the 7950GX2 and you're absolutely right.
I bought the GX2 years ago and they totally screwed us. $559 for that card, and the driver support stopped almost immediately when they jumped ship for the 8800GTX. They never did optimize that card.

I'll never forgive Nvidia for that, but it's also my own fault for not doing research.
 
pandora's box, I see you are using a P35 with CF. How's that working out? Do you feel like the 4x PCIe is affecting performance much if any? I'm glad you got such a good deal on the 4850s. The more pressure ATI can put on NVIDIA the better.

As far as 280 > CF > 9800 GX2, Anand's preview shows that it really just depends on the game you are playing. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3338&p=13

As far as no support for 9800 GX2, the 9800 GX2 is part of the 9 family. Support won't stop for the GX2 unless they stop it for the entire 9 family. NVIDIA is not going to stop supporting that architecture anytime soon. They are still releasing new versions of the 9800 and they need to stay competitive in the mid to low end segment of the market.

With that all said, I'm planning on using the step up program to go to a 280 in the next few weeks. But for most people the 280 currently costs 200+ more than ATI's CF solution and the GX2 for about the same performance. I guess if you have that extra cash to spend, it's the way to go.
 
there was the Geforce 7900GX2 which was discontinued almost immediately :p and then there was the 7950GX2 :eek:

history is bound to repeat itself...
 
It's my understanding that that 9800 GX2 is just two slower clocked 9800 GTS in SLI on one card with a NVIDIA PCIe bridge chip. Essentially it's the same thing as two 9800 GTS in SLI. So, unless NVIDIA stops support for the entire 9 family, it should continue to get updates just as the entire family does.
 
mbmadness said:
pandora's box, I see you are using a P35 with CF. How's that working out? Do you feel like the 4x PCIe is affecting performance much if any? I'm glad you got such a good deal on the 4850s. The more pressure ATI can put on NVIDIA the better.
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its working great for me. I only game at 1680x1050 with like 4xaa or 8xAA though so I dont think im hitting the bottleneck yet. i am keeping an eye out for deals on x38/x48 motherboards.
 
GTX 280 > 9800GX2. At similar performance levels, you should always go for the single card option. No "microstutter" if that's an issue to you. It's just more compatable and from my experiences, provides smoother overall gameplay fps even if the benchmarks show otherwise.
 
Why is it always the person with the 9800GX2/8800GTX/etc. that posts these threads? No one is going to think lesser of you because you have an older card. Faster video cards come out all the time, it's no big deal.
 
Mr. K6 said:
Why is it always the person with the 9800GX2/8800GTX/etc. that posts these threads? No one is going to think lesser of you because you have an older card. Faster video cards come out all the time, it's no big deal.
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In the next two weeks I'm going to a 280 through step-up so it's not about me owning an GX2. I just think at this moment, in this market, the 9800 GX2 is the best for someone who is building a new PC from scratch. The 280 costs over 200 more than the GX2. The GX2 is a pretty good deal right now IMO because it can be had for $415 at Newegg and you can run it on an Intel chipset.

In my earlier post I said 9800 GTS. I meant 9800 GTX in my first post and 8800 GTS in my third post. :D
 
mbmadness said:
You can see this in Anandtech's preview where some of the SLI vs. CF benchmarks show no improvement in performance for one 4850 vs. 4850 CF. AMD needs some time to tweak the drivers
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Link? All the charts I've seen have shown quite an improvement in CF....
 
mbmadness said:
In the next two weeks I'm going to a 280 through step-up so it's not about me owning an GX2. I just think at this moment, in this market, the 9800 GX2 is the best for someone who is building a new PC from scratch. The 280 costs over 200 more than the GX2. The GX2 is a pretty good deal right now IMO because it can be had for $415 at Newegg and you can run it on an Intel chipset.
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I'm building a new rig and am no longer considering the GX2 due to microstutter issues. People need to realize the GTX 280 is the best single GPU solution, the GX2 may be the best dual GPU solution for some but it is not the best choice overall for high end.
 
Avareyne said:
I'm building a new rig and am no longer considering the GX2 due to microstutter issues. People need to realize the GTX 280 is the best single GPU solution, the GX2 may be the best dual GPU solution for some but it is not the best choice overall for high end.
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yeah, in a couple of years we might see a GTX290 GX2 which would be a revised GTX280 core with smaller transistors, and the history repeats itself...
 
I just switched from a 9800GX2 Quad-SLI setup to a Geforce GTX 280 SLI setup. The latter is faster. I don't care what any data says. The minimum frames per second is higher and I got a noticable performance increase in all three games on my box right now. Age of Conan the difference is MASSIVE. Call of Duty 4 can now be maxed out with 4x AA and 16x AF which is something my 9800GX2 SLI setup could not do. I had to use 2x AA and 4x AA was too much for the limited memory and memory bandwidth of the 9800GX2. Crysis performance is also largely improved.

Higher minimums, better averages, and the maximum FPS range is close enough. Simply put the gameplay delivered by the Geforce GTX 280 is vastly superior in that it is far smoother and more consistent. Also SLI seems to work transparently as it did between the two PCB's on the 9800GX2.
 
Dan_D said:
You obviously haven't read very many of my posts. I do this type of thing all the time. :cool:
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yep, i haven't, who are u again? :p lolz

as i said i would like to see the PPDs you can get with that monster with new nvidia GPU folding client :eek:
 
You're joking right?

Someone posted their issues with SLI issues in AoC (a non-SLI friendly game) and I wanted to see if he was experiencing the same. :rolleyes:
 
The performance difference seems pretty negligible so it comes down to: buy the old about to be dropped from support more expensive setup or the new barely tapped cheaper setup...seems obvious to me, but everyone has different needs I suppose.
 
UtopiA said:
You mean the 7950GX2 and you're absolutely right.
I bought the GX2 years ago and they totally screwed us. $559 for that card, and the driver support stopped almost immediately when they jumped ship for the 8800GTX. They never did optimize that card.

I'll never forgive Nvidia for that, but it's also my own fault for not doing research.
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How could you possibly have known Nvidia was going to hang you out to dry... Hung one of my customers out to dry too.

leSLIe said:
there was the Geforce 7900GX2 which was discontinued almost immediately :p and then there was the 7950GX2 :eek:

history is bound to repeat itself...
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there was a 7800GX2 as well, infact there were only 100 of em ever made and put in 50 systems. The Dell XPS "Renegade". Cost just under $10,000. Dell exclusive. Based on the 110nm G70. Not the G71

The 7900GX2 was identical to the 7800GX2, only it was based on the G71, and was sold to every major oem who wanted one.

After that came the 7950GX2, which had a smaller PCB. Its also based on the G71. I wanted one so bad when it came out.

leSLIe said:
yeah, in a couple of years we might see a GTX290 GX2 which would be a revised GTX280 core with smaller transistors, and the history repeats itself...
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...no lol. Nvidias not willing to push out an SKU with a TDP of 400W The GT200b, a shrink of the GT200 is taped out, which means I suspect we'll see it withen the next 6 months, Nvidia will push to get it out for the x-mas season, donno if they'll make it. I doubt they'll even change the clocks too much, just get the die size down, thats all they wanna do. The Nvidia of the 7 series prob woulda pushed the 40nm node, but these days they seem really conservative, so it'l be 55nm and it wont be too much of an improvement

Dan_D said:
You obviously haven't read very many of my posts. I do this type of thing all the time. :cool:
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no kidding. This guys girlfriend runs on 680i and two 8800s... playing like flash games I'm sure.
 
I've been looking at the stuttering my GX2 experiences and I think I have a pretty good idea of what's causing it. Every graphics card I have owned has experienced some stuttering. Especially if you play a game like Need For Speed that has a lot of different textures. I'm pretty sure it's caused by loading new textures into the video card memory. SLI and CF configurations are especially affected because the textures have to be loaded into two or more graphics cards memory at once. Also, people using SLI or CF are typically going to select the highest quality textures, which means larger textures that will take more time to load. The GX2 is handicapped even more because the bridge chip is PCIe 1.0 according to Anandtech. If you enter an area and it's loading a lot of textures, you'll notice a lot of stuttering. However, once they are loaded, it runs very smoothly.
 
I agree exactly with what Dan said. I went from a single 9800GX2 to dual GTX 280 SLI, and even in one GPU mode (I got a bad card that's preventing my SLI joy right now) the GTX 280 is just way better at gaming.

I'd like to compare 4850 CF, I may pick up a pair but I need to sell my 8800 Ultra and 9800 GX2 first.
 
Dan_D, Now that the 9800 GX2 is on it's way out, maybe Kyle wouldn't mind cracking one open and showing us what's inside. :D Do you think he would be interested? Is anyone else curious?
 
MrWizard6600 said:
no kidding. This guys girlfriend runs on 680i and two 8800s... playing like flash games I'm sure.
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Nope. My girlfriend runs on an X48 chipset based motherboard with a dual core E6600 and an 8800GTX. (I'll likely swap that out for a 9800GX2 today.) She plays Age of Conan most often right now but she's played other things on it. Unreal Tournament III, Bioshock, etc.......

She did have a 680i SLI reference board in her machine until a couple of weeks ago. The board went tits up and I replaced it with an Intel DX48BT2 motherboard.
 
Am I correct in thinking that a GTX280, with an eventual second one, would be the ideal setup for 30" gaming?
 
leSLIe said:
there was the Geforce 7900GX2 which was discontinued almost immediately :p and then there was the 7950GX2 :eek:

history is bound to repeat itself...
Click to expand...


The 7900 was a dell oem only and the 7950 was the retail version if i remember correctly
 
Dan_D said:
Nope. My girlfriend runs on an X48 chipset based motherboard with a dual core E6600 and an 8800GTX. (I'll likely swap that out for a 9800GX2 today.) She plays Age of Conan most often right now but she's played other things on it. Unreal Tournament III, Bioshock, etc.......

She did have a 680i SLI reference board in her machine until a couple of weeks ago. The board went tits up and I replaced it with an Intel DX48BT2 motherboard.
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did i mention that i hate u already?
 
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