A+ and Network+

[mycomputersucks]

i'm an IT major at GMU (in virginia) and i'm having trouble getting a position because i haven't graduated yet. there are a trillion jobs for graduates, but no one wants that kid thats still learning. I was thinking, would it be worth my time to take the A+ and Network+ exams, just to get an entry level position? How much do they cost? i've seen practice tests online, and they all seem simple, but do you NEED to pay for training, or are books enough?

thanks for any insite you guys can give.

 

[debaser_]

Id say get them asap. I graduated recently and I keep hearing "why arent you certified?" in x y and z ? It seems that having a degree is no longer enough, and you have to prove you have retained the things you learned through taking these tests. As far as classes go, I feel that most of the organizations that offer a 5 day class to become CCNA are just selling a dream. A 5 day course is not going to replace a college education.

<rant>
I do not think you can take in and actually retain all of the knowledge you need to know to become a network administrator in a few days. The fact that many people feel differently, is absolutely insane. With companies promising things such as this, I feel that many IT workers are undervalued. When the impression is given to someone that you can take a class for one week and become a certified professional, they may feel as though you are a joke. I feel that this is why some places expect one person to handle all of an organizations technology issues.
</rant>

Since you are going to school, and are familiar with much of the material covered in the courses, I would suggest you save your money. I am going to study on my own rather than spend money on classes which will probably be boring. If you want to take them, I would look into taking them at community college because they are significantly cheaper. You may also meet other people you can network with there.

 

[Fint]

When I took the A+ (back in 1998) it was $125ish. I took the Net+ a few years ago, and I think it was about the same. Having a book is helpful if you aren't 100% you know everything; the ExamCram series is nice, because they are pretty cheap and short enough so that you can read them quickly (to make sure you don't have any gaps).

A person with no experience but a few certs looks much better than someone with neither.

 

[mycomputersucks]

thanks for the info

yeah, i've taken the little practice exams you can d/l for free, and they are all super easy so far. Not sure if they are as difficult as the real tests.

edit-

oh, can anyone taken the isc3 exam?

 

[xXaNaXx]

A person with no experience but a few certs looks much better than someone with neither.

if i were you, i'd get all the certifications that you can.....an A+ or Network+ may not be much by themselves, but in addition to other certifications and/or a degree, they can only help.

but even the A+ is worth it, especially in my case, since my last job paid for the test. i just studied up on those free online tests and passed it the first time.

 

[DragonNOA1]

Knowing some computer stuff, like I'm sure you know, a degree and a cert will help for sure. I have my A+ & Net+ and it's helped me to get a job no questions asked. I'm waiting awhile to get more experience b4 I get more advanced certs.

 

[millhouse]

A person with no experience but a few certs looks much better than someone with neither.

A person with a few certs and no experience looks like a dumbass in my book. Having a cert or two with no experience is saying to me "yeah you have been exposed to some of the material but you probably dont know how to put it to use in real world situations"

Seeing as these are very entry level certs then I can say the above doesnt really apply.

 

[millhouse]

Knowing some computer stuff, like I'm sure you know, a degree and a cert will help for sure. I have my A+ & Net+ and it's helped me to get a job no questions asked. I'm waiting awhile to get more experience b4 I get more advanced certs.

Werd!!!! Now thats how to do it.

 

[ccarrigan]

A person with a few certs and no experience looks like a dumbass in my book. Having a cert or two with no experience is saying to me "yeah you have been exposed to some of the material but you probably dont know how to put it to use in real world situations"

Seeing as these are very entry level certs then I can say the above doesnt really apply.

While not phrasing it the same, I'd agree with the above post. We've hired many a person with "degrees" and "certs", but real life application is completely different. I know it's hard to get a job without them, but having the experience of actually doing things is invaluable.

 

[DragonNOA1]

I remember hearing about a girl in India who was around 11 or 12 and got her MCP. Yeah, I'd hire her

 

[Kaos]

it's all about being in the right place at the right time for job hunting. I went from being a supervising technician who just fixed viruses and spyware to a network technician (difference of $10,000 in the blink of an eye) and i still have about 9 months of schooling to do with no certs.

 

[xXaNaXx]

it's all about being in the right place at the right time for job hunting. I went from being a supervising technician who just fixed viruses and spyware to a network technician (difference of $10,000 in the blink of an eye) and i still have about 9 months of schooling to do with no certs.

lucky breaks do happen, no one will deny that.....but for just any joe schmoe walking in off the street applying for a job, someone with certs will get hired over someone with no certs 99% of the time.....

 

[BobSutan]

Okay, something worth keeping in mind here. Certs, degrees, etc will only help get you the interview. From there its all about you and what you can really get done. If you don't have the experience to back up the certs, don't be surprised that you don't make it past the first interview.

Hell, most tech jobs these days have a followup screening with a team lead of some sort that will grill you on how much you really know, or you may have to go through a lab of some sort. Simply passing a test, or having a degree for that matter, is simply not enough anymore. In fact both are just checkboxes on an HR person's clipboard.

 

[Darkstar850]

Hell, most tech jobs these days have a followup screening with a team lead of some sort that will grill you on how much you really know, or you may have to go through a lab of some sort.

Boy do they ever. My network analyst/fault management interview was a beat-down by the two Tier 3's and the network managers. Good thing I knew my stuff, but some of those questions would be challenging even today.

 

[kleptophobiac]

Wow, I have no intention of going into IT as a profession, but I went ahead and took a couple online tests for the two A+ parts - hardware and OS. They act like windows is the only OS on the planet, and a lot of the questions aren't even correct for all versions of windows.

Some of the questions are also just completely boneheaded. "What does a semicolon in win.ini do?" I said it inserts a comment line, but apparently it also prevents a driver from loading. Of course commented lines are ignored, dipshits.

I also fail to see the relevance of knowing the com and lpt port addresses. I do, but that's because I write code for interfacing to my hobbyist projects, it just seems so.... useless.

The tests were fairly easy, I passed them no sweat, but they were painfully stupid.

 

[usualpulp]

i took some practice a+ tests a while back, and most of the questions and answers were very boneheaded like other said, the right answer wasnt always the right answer, its all a matter of learning the test and answering what the test wants you to

 

[Fint]

I also fail to see the relevance of knowing the com and lpt port addresses. I do, but that's because I write code for interfacing to my hobbyist projects, it just seems so.... useless.

Yes, they are 99% useless now, in the world where PNP actually works, but in the DOS and Win95 days, they came in handy quite often. The A+ has been around for many years with many different revisions, but some of the test questions are showing their age.

 

[DragonNOA1]

A+ is for a tech to support all OS's, focusing mainly on windows including their older and newer offerings. A+ may be easy or stupid but I still think it is a good cert and something you could show ppl if you have your own job as a tech supporting all that's out there.

 

[Mabrito]

As far as classes go, I feel that most of the organizations that offer a 5 day class to become CCNA are just selling a dream. A 5 day course is not going to replace a college education.

My Cisco teacher was talking about those classes. He says that they just keep on drilling the basics into you, that are good enough to pass the CCNA test. Then after the test, that person is screwed, he or she does not know how to do anything. They know the basics, that is it. He was saying, that even one school, doesnt even show you how to program the routers, which is pathetic, because that is a very necessary part in networking.

 

[BobSutan]

The only value I can really see in those 5 day bootcamps are for people that have been in the industry for a while and want to brush up on the fundamentals before they sit a test. Basically the same thing as picking up a studyguide--refresher training.

 

[debaser_]

My Cisco teacher was talking about those classes. He says that they just keep on drilling the basics into you, that are good enough to pass the CCNA test. Then after the test, that person is screwed, he or she does not know how to do anything. They know the basics, that is it. He was saying, that even one school, doesnt even show you how to program the routers, which is pathetic, because that is a very necessary part in networking.

Yea i wrote that post right after I came home from a seminar thing at one of those certification bootcamp places just to check it out. That being the case i was pretty grumpy and did not see them as being very favorable. In hindsight I still stand by the uselessness of those places for the majority of people. As far as BobSultan mentioned, I do believe that people who need a refresher will get something out of these places, but those arent the people those places are targetting. I heard them talk about how the average person with their MCSE makes 70k on average, but they said it was a little lower, which I still took with a grain of salt. I went to a normal four year school for technology, but some of the most important things i was exposed to were not related at all to computers. Your first 2 years at a university are usually spent taking classes that are not related to your major. I learned about things I wouldnt have unless forced to, and desire to learn on my own about more than just technology. Of course it was sorta expensive, but the cert school said take out at least 20k in loans at the end of the presentation. It was well worth my time because i was happy i chose a four year school instead of a fly by night cert program.

 

[Justamino_[H]]

I remember hearing about a girl in India who was around 11 or 12 and got her MCP. Yeah, I'd hire her

I think I talked with her while trying to get a hard drive replaced for a friend's Compaq....

 

[Justamino_[H]]

A person with a few certs and no experience looks like a dumbass in my book. Having a cert or two with no experience is saying to me "yeah you have been exposed to some of the material but you probably dont know how to put it to use in real world situations"

Seeing as these are very entry level certs then I can say the above doesnt really apply.

A person with a lot of certs and no exp looks like a dumbass, but for someone in this guy's particular situation I would suggest to get the A+ and Net+ certs.

I got both of those while still in college and they got me an entry level Intern job which in turn helped me get the experience needed to continue moving up the ladder.

Those entry level certs would be great for you but I think I'd stop there, I've worked with a few people that were hired because they had their MCSE's but no real world experience and they never last long.

 

[aBSoLuT_0]

When I took the A+ (back in 1998) it was $125ish. I took the Net+ a few years ago, and I think it was about the same.

FYI, the A+ cert is actually 2 tests, Core Hardware and OS. Each test is ~$125. If you have a fair amount of experience, I would suggest getting Mike Meyers' A+ Certification Passport to round out your knowledge. Same with the Network+ exam.