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A nice preview of Longhorn
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MalfurionStormrage
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TBONEU said:
How exactly would this be copyright infringement? Apple isn't copying anything. For that matter, the copying might be going the other way...
Now, if you want to assert trademark infringement, that is another ball of wax and this might have a chance of succeeding. Unless, of course, Apple could rightly declare its use as a parody (double meaning implied).
zerogt86 said:
Well they have already added a 3D gui system code named Avalon. And a desktop search feature that they claim is better than spotlight.
Though I personally could care less about spotlight. How often do you really need to use the search feature in an OS? I use it maybe twice a year.
But Longhorn is shaping up to be a huge disappointment. It's already being called Windows XP SP3.
HighwayAssassins
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HA! thats funny...well its funny they ripped off the longhorn thing, but is there some pun or something i'm missing with Tiger and Longhorn, or is it just funny that they are ripping off MS?
HighwayAssassins said:
The joke is that they are saying that M$ is going to copy everything in Tiger and put it in Longhorn. So by looking at Tiger, you are seeing what Longhorn is going to TRY to be.
Here are some more burns against M$. [ Link ]
HighwayAssassins
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gotchaaBSoLuT_0 said:The joke is that they are saying that M$ is going to copy everything in Tiger and put it in Longhorn. So by looking at Tiger, you are seeing what Longhorn is going to TRY to be.
aBSoLuT_0 said:The joke is that they are saying that M$ is going to copy everything in Tiger and put it in Longhorn. So by looking at Tiger, you are seeing what Longhorn is going to TRY to be.
Here are some more burns against M$. [ Link ]
never saw the rest of them. thats funny. you gotta love the whole david v. goliath thing we have going on now with apple and microsoft.
im most looking forward to whatever line of ads apple runs to try to gain more computer market share. i was hoping theyd advertise the new imacs, the mini, or tiger on tv. then again, theres a reason im not in charge of marketing or advertising for apple.
Last night I watched an old 3 part series about the PC industry history (something of the nerds... no it wasn't revenge of the nerds... hehe).
It showed how xerox developed their own GUI in PARC and for some reason they were showing 3 things they were working on to steve jobs (gui based computer, ethernet and laser printing I believe) because their executives couldn't comprehend how important it was they demanded one of their trainers to give a presentation on them to pretty much all apple employees.
Then apple improved on it and brought it to market. Then MS did the same.
Jobs even said something like "The best artists steal and apple is full of artists, poets, writers..."
For a company that stole first and then cried when someone else stole from them they are sure bitter
*i am not an apple hater
It showed how xerox developed their own GUI in PARC and for some reason they were showing 3 things they were working on to steve jobs (gui based computer, ethernet and laser printing I believe) because their executives couldn't comprehend how important it was they demanded one of their trainers to give a presentation on them to pretty much all apple employees.
Then apple improved on it and brought it to market. Then MS did the same.
Jobs even said something like "The best artists steal and apple is full of artists, poets, writers..."
For a company that stole first and then cried when someone else stole from them they are sure bitter
*i am not an apple hater
Centauri
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HighwayAssassins said:
You're dense.
Mushroom Prince
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Its true. Microsoft doesn't know how to make software. An operating system made by ms is going to be inherently suxors. There are all kinds of arguements about the whole security issue but the way I see it if a company can release operating systems like Windows 95, windows 98, and WIndows ME then they suck ass.
Thats all there is too it. Other than stability there hasn't been THAT much improvement from windows since I first started using computers ( back in mid 90's).
Factor out software compatibility ( which isn't .. really apple's fault if 3rd parties decide to not make software for them ) and os ten is a better operating system.
And microsoft can't make anything original.
</end rant>
Thats all there is too it. Other than stability there hasn't been THAT much improvement from windows since I first started using computers ( back in mid 90's).
Factor out software compatibility ( which isn't .. really apple's fault if 3rd parties decide to not make software for them ) and os ten is a better operating system.
And microsoft can't make anything original.
</end rant>
Black Morty Rackham
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It's not a matter of being bitter, it's a matter of good marketing skills. Apple's main source of new customers are old ones recomending Macs. They play on the Apple vs Microsoft thing, and they should bloody well do that. Anything else would be downright poor marketing.Korgun said:
As for who ripped who off with the GUI... I'd say it's largely irrelevant. A graphical UI would've surfaced sooner or later anyway. It's not like Xerox' creation of one was like the discovery of penicillin or some such fluke. What matters is that Apple was the first one to actually have a finished product. You cannot call Windows a ripoff, though, for several reasons. The first of these is that competition is good. Do you really think Apple would have been as innovative if they weren't forced to be? Secondly, since the GUI would have been invented sooner or later anyway, it doesn't really matter if you're first or second with it. Thirdly, let's be honest... Windows wasn't really all that similar. The only thing they had in common was the fact that both had a GUI.
WRT Longhorn vs Tiger
I can guarantee you that MS have been working on Longhorn since before Tiger was demoed. I can guarantee you that a new way of searching for files has been on the drawing board of Apple and Microsoft (and hopefully Sun, etc) for years. Again, this is a technology that is not developed by the sheer innovation of an individual or a group of individuals. It's a technology (well, several technologies, actually) developed because they need to be developed.
Apple has had Desktop Accessories, little tiny applets, for about twenty years now, and I don't know if they were even the first with them. Sure, they were a far cry from the lickable stuff of Dashboard or Konfabulator or what Longhorn might have, but the general idea was already there. It's been done. It's old. It's fucking ancient. Again, MS introducing a feature that Tiger has does not mean they're ripping off Tiger. It means they're introducing something that just plain makes sense to have. Again, it's not a ripoff.
3D GUI... well... How should I put this? Until we have 3D displays, a 3D GUI is utterly useless. Apple actually had a project for an application that let you browse things (internet, files, whatever) in 3D like ten years ago. It was scrapped when they realized it sucked. This doesn't matter, though. Longhorn and Tiger do not have 3D GUIs. They have 3D effects. The huge difference is that there is no real cartesian space. There is no Z-axis. All there is is some sense of depth in order to make things look better. This is from a user's point of view.
From a technical point of view, "3D" user interfaces are nothing new. Way back when Jaguar and Quartz Extreme were first introduced, Mac OS X's entire interface became 3D. All windows are textured polygons. That's as 3D as it gets. Anything more is just eye candy, essentially. Sun's Looking Glass is nifty, sure, but is it actually useful? Not really. It does have some very useful features, but most of them come from the fact that its UI is textured polygons, and it seems to be a very versatile system of drawing such polygons, not from the fact that you can do 3D stuff with them. Having a window "tilt" as you minimize it along the edge is nice for a demo, but from a real usability point of view, you might as well minimize it in 2D. I'm sure you will, eventually, agree that Exposé is much more useful than Longhorn's 3D alt-tab window tilt.
Okay... it got longer than I planned. Anyway, go around and spread the gospel: nobody should care about who ripped off who. 3D GUIs suck. Etc.
The thing I dont understand is that MS announces all these additions long before the Tiger OS even comes out yet they are stealing, ah well whatever. Anyway, 98 was good, 2k was sweet business line. XP is decent OS but nothin too special. The tools I enjoy most as time goes along
1. Built in tools that allow me to connect to other user pc's (remote desktop, netmeeting etc)
2. Huge driver database. Gotta love it
Thats about all I care about at this time. Oh, and I get to play games other than marathon 2 ;D
1. Built in tools that allow me to connect to other user pc's (remote desktop, netmeeting etc)
2. Huge driver database. Gotta love it
Thats about all I care about at this time. Oh, and I get to play games other than marathon 2 ;D
Black Morty Rackham
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No, it wasn't. Windows 98 sucked.huxley said:
MalfurionStormrage
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Korgun said:Then apple improved on it and brought it to market. Then MS did the same.
Jobs even said something like "The best artists steal and apple is full of artists, poets, writers..."
For a company that stole first and then cried when someone else stole from them they are sure bitter
*i am not an apple hater
<rant>
PARC concepts were licensed from XEROX, not stolen.
And in any case, the term you are looking for is copyright infringement which is legally not theft.
Claiming that Apple "stole" technology on a public message board without proof borders on libel. Sure, it sounds good and makes you feel good, but it's not true.
</rant>
Black Morty Rackham
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And then you do not even mention that ideas, as such, cannot even be copyrighted or patented. Not even the US Patent Office would grant a patent like "displaying graphics instead of text in order to convey information from the computer to the user." Honestly, ideas cannot be protected. Ideas aren't property. Ideas cannot be stolen. They're just ideas. The product is what matters, and Apple didn't steal that either.MalfurionStormrage said:
MalfurionStormrage said:
I have nothing at stake on this issue. I have done no research about it either. I was just mentioning what I saw on the show.
I have no reason to go get proof for you or anyone else and it surely doesn't make me feel better saying it.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. <3
MalfurionStormrage
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Korgun said:
You didn't hurt my feelings. I have 8 PCs in the house and one PowerBook.
If you are going to throw words around like "theft" and "stole", maybe you should do research before posting unsubstantiated claims on the Internet...
the original 98? Most of them. Not that OS 8 crashed any less, but at least the UI was 10X better. That's all crap anyway - I dont care about history. I care about today, and Tiger is vastly superior to XP in every possible way except gaming. If you're a gamer you'll have a PC around for that.
You can get a two button mouse with a mac...not like it comes packed in with the OS or anything. It is just that the claims of theft end up going both ways and all ways. 'Borrowing' technology or ideas from other companies goes on with everyone (even apple *gasp*). No need to be insultive here!
i didnt mean to insult you, i just thought it was funny/appropriate because of your custom forum title
argue for windows all you want, honestly youre just beating a dead horse in here man. all of us in here were hardcore gamers / windows users just like you. then we saw something we liked better, and switched over. you're not preaching a new gospel. we've all been in your shoes before. you gotta grow up sooner or later
the theft arguments are kind of pointless, because theyre hard to proove. but what you cannot deny, is that apple beat ms to the punch. weve got all the features of longhorn already (+stability, -games, +beating a dead horse, -farting) today.
argue for windows all you want, honestly youre just beating a dead horse in here man. all of us in here were hardcore gamers / windows users just like you. then we saw something we liked better, and switched over. you're not preaching a new gospel. we've all been in your shoes before. you gotta grow up sooner or later
the theft arguments are kind of pointless, because theyre hard to proove. but what you cannot deny, is that apple beat ms to the punch. weve got all the features of longhorn already (+stability, -games, +beating a dead horse, -farting) today.
Microsoft has been TEH SUCK ever since DOS. I've been a PC user for 13+ years and I have always had problems with anything M$. Apple used to be just as crappy, I'll admit but as for today's times, Apple is definitly kicking Microsoft right in the rear. If it wasn't for gaming, I'd go Apple all the way. Even today, I still have the occasional software problems with XP constantly.
I'm not...I have owned macs before and I love my little ipod. If you want to call sensibility being a !!!!!! then so be it ;DdDD.Garage81 said:well, ill gladly start a petition to change your custom title to "M$ fAn_bOi" if you'd like
T-Bird 151
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I ponder the question: do you think companies would be quicker to employ the Tiger OS vs. Windows Longhorn?
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