A64 OC Data

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Hi, Im been reading on how to OC the AMD 64 and want to clarify a few things. If I have a Clawhammer 3200+ and want to OC 10% from 2GHz to 2.2 GHz I should up the HTT to 220 Mhz which will mutiply by the clock multiplier of the default 10 to 2.2 Ghz. I should also lower the LDT to 3 which will give me an effective 220 x 3 = 660 Mhz HT effective Rate. For Ram I should get low Cas 3200 instead of high Cas High Frequency and and use the HTT to Ram Frequency of 200 to 183 leaving my Ram running at 220 *(200/183) = 201.3 Hhz.

Questions
I will be using a MSI K8N Neo Platinum with the NForce3 250 GB. Will this allow me to leave the LDT multiplier at 4 so effective HTT will be 4 * 220 for 880 Mhz. Also is the limitation for the NForce3 250 GB 800 or 1000? All the socket 754 mobos claim 800 but online tuts claim 1000 Mhz. How much does the effective HTT matter in relation to performance?
What are the benefits of changing the CPU multiplier besides getting closer to the Max HTT effective Rate or Max Ram Frequency?
Ex.
HTT efective rate max is 1000(Im not sure that it is as I stated above just say it is) you overclock the HTT to 220 and with a 4 LDT you get only 880 Mhz. You want near 1000 so you up the HTT to 245 change the clock multi to 9 =2205 Mhz for the CPU and 245 x 4 LDT for 980 Mhz effective HTT which is closer.

How much does increasing the Ram Frequencies help? From what Ive read lower frequency with low Cas is better than High Frequency with High Cas. If this is true, Im going with Cas 2 PC3200 and using a HT to Ram Multiplier. On this note what are the HTT to Ram Multipliers Ive seen 200/200, 200/166, 200/133, andd 200/100. I also seen some use 200/183 and 200/166. If I dont OC the Ram I shouldnt need to up the vdimm right?

Also will I have to change the voltage settings if I only go form 2 GHz to 2.2 Ghz, and how will I be able to tell if they need upping?

Is this OC (10% from 2 to 2.2 )even possible on a clawhammer with the crappier revision (AP I think) and air cooled with the Venus 12?

Thanks for any help, sorry if this was confusing. Any terms I missused please set me straight.
 
gamer1drew said:
Hi, Im been reading on how to OC the AMD 64 and want to clarify a few things. If I have a Clawhammer 3200+ and want to OC 10% from 2GHz to 2.2 GHz I should up the HTT to 220 Mhz which will mutiply by the clock multiplier of the default 10 to 2.2 Ghz. I should also lower the LDT to 3 which will give me an effective 220 x 3 = 660 Mhz HT effective Rate. For Ram I should get low Cas 3200 instead of high Cas High Frequency and and use the HTT to Ram Frequency of 200 to 183 leaving my Ram running at 220 *(200/183) = 201.3 Hhz.

Questions
I will be using a MSI K8N Neo Platinum with the NForce3 250 GB. Will this allow me to leave the LDT multiplier at 4 so effective HTT will be 4 * 220 for 880 Mhz. Also is the limitation for the NForce3 250 GB 800 or 1000? All the socket 754 mobos claim 800 but online tuts claim 1000 Mhz. How much does the effective HTT matter in relation to performance?
What are the benefits of changing the CPU multiplier besides getting closer to the Max HTT effective Rate or Max Ram Frequency?
Ex.
HTT efective rate max is 1000(Im not sure that it is as I stated above just say it is) you overclock the HTT to 220 and with a 4 LDT you get only 880 Mhz. You want near 1000 so you up the HTT to 245 change the clock multi to 9 =2205 Mhz for the CPU and 245 x 4 LDT for 980 Mhz effective HTT which is closer.

How much does increasing the Ram Frequencies help? From what Ive read lower frequency with low Cas is better than High Frequency with High Cas. If this is true, Im going with Cas 2 PC3200 and using a HT to Ram Multiplier. On this note what are the HTT to Ram Multipliers Ive seen 200/200, 200/166, 200/133, andd 200/100. I also seen some use 200/183 and 200/166. If I dont OC the Ram I shouldnt need to up the vdimm right?

Also will I have to change the voltage settings if I only go form 2 GHz to 2.2 Ghz, and how will I be able to tell if they need upping?

Is this OC (10% from 2 to 2.2 )even possible on a clawhammer with the crappier revision (AP I think) and air cooled with the Venus 12?

Thanks for any help, sorry if this was confusing. Any terms I missused please set me straight.
Click to expand...


Few things I can answer for you.

You will still want the HTT Multiplier to be 3, the stock on that board is 800 for the HTT, So it might be stable going over 800 but it might not. As far as it making a difference Most people will agree that there isnt a noticeable performance impact by lower the HTT. Although never tried the 1x multiplier ;)

Next, You can try leaving it at the 10x cpu multiplier and just raise the bus to 220. If your RAM can handle that at like 2-3-2 or even 2-3-3 it might be better then running them back at 200mhz at 2-2-2. That is if you go with such low timings for ram.
I know personally on my Shuttle Board, I can not do over 210 stable with 1:1 memory and thats with pc3500 ram. It is either my cpu limiting me or the board, but not the ram.
I digress though.

Like you showed earlier with your example, if your ram can not run at the 220, then just lower the mult to 9x and go to like 245 HTT which will basically get your ram back up to 200mhz.
I also found on my board that the AGP lock breaks at 245HTT at the 9x multiplier. 244 and 246 work though, I assume these bugs are from the Nforce3 150 chipset and should be worked out in the newer motherboards.

Depending on the actual voltage your motherboard is putting to the cpu (mine at 1.5v undervolts by .25) you may or may not need to up the voltage. Some could do it at the stock voltage, but you may need .5v more to get it completely stable.
Some prime95 overnight should let you know if its really stable.

Also, if you do not OC the ram you should be able to get away without an increase in its voltage.

Hope that helps you some ;)
 
Thank You for the Help.
I think im gonning to go with 10 X 220 for 2.2 Ghz
Get some Lvl 1 Mushkin Cas 2-3-3 pc3500 and leave the Mem Ratio 1:1 for a minor Ram OC(216 to 220)
Leave the LDT multiplier at 3 until I make sure everything is stable, and then see if it can take 4* 220=880.
 
Good luck, Let us know if you see any benchmark differences between the two HTT Multipliers
 
Now that I've finally got this figured out, here are some preliminary results for my system:

CPU: Athlon 64 3200+ Retail
MB: MSI K8N Neo Platinum NF3 250
Ram: Crucial PC3200DDR 1GB
VC: MSI ATI RX9800XT
Windows XP Pro

2.5cpu.JPG

2.5mem.JPG

2.5cool.JPG


I haven't stressed this at all but Windows is stable, so take this with a grain of salt I suppose. I'll update as I do more testing.

edit: got insta-crash after loading bios with tRCD=2. Windows loaded at 260x10 (tRCD=3), desktop worked but 3DMark03 crashed about 1/2 way thru an rebooted my machine. CPU temp was about 50 degrees celcius.
 
CPU- AMD 64 3500+ (stock cooling)
Mobo- Asus K8V Deluxe (via chipset)
Memory- 512mb Corsair 2.5 3 3 8

cpu.jpg


Memory.jpg


Once i get a Zalaman cpu fan i will try for higher speeds
 
ThreeDee said:
I believe the way it works is that you work up from the 133 or 166 settings ..meaning ..whatever over 200mhz fsb your running on the chip ..add to 133 or 166 .. so if chip is running at 210 and you have mem set at 166 =176 on mem .. my mobo doesnt have a straight 200 setting, its just called "Auto" ..and it must drop down to next lowest speed when you start cranken on the fsb .

I'm pretty sure my buffalo ram cant do 250 at 2.9v of which on the "Auto" setting I can run stable at 250... but I cant run stable at 279 with mem set at 166 =245 ... i have to set it to 133 =212.

then again , maybe my formula for figuring out what my mem is running at is flawed.
Click to expand...

ThreeDee,

Shouldn't your true memory speed be at 228 with a CPU mult of 9 and setting memory at 166? Reason being that at 166 your RAM should be HT x 5/6 => 279 *5/6 = 232.5

Then with your clock of 2510Mhz and mult at 9 and HT at 279, to find what your True RAM speed is you'd divide your cpu clock by your supposed mem of 232.5 to find what mem divider you have. This means: 2510 / 232.5 = 10.79 There is no 10.79 divider so the next alternative would be 11. So this mean your true memory is running at 2510 / 11 = 228.

Can anyone else confirm this? This is how it's calculated correct?
 
Wonding what's holding me back.

I've got a 64 3000+ and an Asus K8V Deluxe.

I can OC it to 2300 with no problems at all. No errors in prime95. But, if I take one step over 2300 (230 x 10) it gets an error in a matter of minutes in prime95. I've tried dropping the cpu:memory ratio to eliminate the ram from the equation, but still no luck beyond 2300.

Unfortunately, I got this stuff when it was brand new, so I got a board that lacks pci/agp lock. But would a high pci/agp frequency cause this instability? Because it's subjective as to whether its unstable or not. In my earlier OCing attempts, I got it all the way to 2450. It would boot and run most things, but no benchmarking and instant errors in prime95.

So I guess my question is:

Is it the lack of a pci/agp lock that is holding me back? And if so, is there any way around this without droping dough on a new board?
 
If my memory can do 250MHz is there any reason i should not run 1:1 with the FSB on my 64? with LTD3x250
 
I(illa Bee said:
If my memory can do 250MHz is there any reason i should not run 1:1 with the FSB on my 64? with LTD3x250
Click to expand...

If you board supports 600 HT only then No.. it will most likely be unstable.

However if you board supports 800 HT (nForce250gb , KT800Pro) then it should be fine.
 
CypHill said:
If you board supports 600 HT only then No.. it will most likely be unstable.

However if you board supports 800 HT (nForce250gb , KT800Pro) then it should be fine.
Click to expand...
yea ita A N3 250.....MSI NEO PLAT..
 
Great!

What I would do is this: (assuming your memory can handle 225FSB)

CPU mult: 9x
HT speed: 276
LTD mult: 3x
FSB : 166 (5:6)

This will give you a FSB memory speed of 225 and a overclock of 2484 Mhz. I think with decent ram timings this will be a great all-around overclock.
 
CypHill said:
Great!

What I would do is this: (assuming your memory can handle 225FSB)

CPU mult: 9x
HT speed: 276
LTD mult: 3x
FSB : 166 (5:6)

This will give you a FSB memory speed of 225 and a overclock of 2484 Mhz. I think with decent ram timings this will be a great all-around overclock.
Click to expand...
When i set the memory to 166 that just means its going to go up from 166 depending on FSB and divider right? it dosnt lock it at 166 dose it? and why would i not run 1:1 (instead to 5:6) and set it to 200.
 
No, it doesn't lock it.

It might when the computer posts show it as pc2700, but when you get into windows it will have the right speed.
 
sshizzle said:
Wonding what's holding me back.

I've got a 64 3000+ and an Asus K8V Deluxe.

I can OC it to 2300 with no problems at all. No errors in prime95. But, if I take one step over 2300 (230 x 10) it gets an error in a matter of minutes in prime95. I've tried dropping the cpu:memory ratio to eliminate the ram from the equation, but still no luck beyond 2300.

Unfortunately, I got this stuff when it was brand new, so I got a board that lacks pci/agp lock. But would a high pci/agp frequency cause this instability? Because it's subjective as to whether its unstable or not. In my earlier OCing attempts, I got it all the way to 2450. It would boot and run most things, but no benchmarking and instant errors in prime95.

So I guess my question is:

Is it the lack of a pci/agp lock that is holding me back? And if so, is there any way around this without droping dough on a new board?
Click to expand...


It could be very well the lack of the pci/agp lock. Might also just be as far as its gonna reach with the cpu too. If your board has the ability to set the multiplier set a lower one and see if you can crank the HTT up past 230. If it does and it runs stable, then its your cpu holding you back.
 
I(illa Bee said:
When i set the memory to 166 that just means its going to go up from 166 depending on FSB and divider right? it dosnt lock it at 166 dose it? and why would i not run 1:1 (instead to 5:6) and set it to 200.
Click to expand...


Because if your HT is higher than your FSB and you're running 1:1, you might get instability if the HT is higher than what your RAM can do.

For example: If you have HT at 230 but your PC3200 won't normally do more than 215, you'll have instability and possibly wont boot.

But if you have HT at 200 and you're running the same PC3200 at 1:1, it'll run at 200 just fine.

You need high HT normally to get a better (higher) overclock. The higher the HT, the higher chances are your RAM is not going to be stable. This is why you run a memory divider (ie: FSB 166 5:6). The article posted earlier in this thread is excellent on explaining the whole A64 overclocking thing. You should read up on it.
 
CypHill said:
Because if your HT is higher than your FSB and you're running 1:1, you might get instability if the HT is higher than what your RAM can do.

For example: If you have HT at 230 but your PC3200 won't normally do more than 215, you'll have instability and possibly wont boot.

But if you have HT at 200 and you're running the same PC3200 at 1:1, it'll run at 200 just fine.

You need high HT normally to get a better (higher) overclock. The higher the HT, the higher chances are your RAM is not going to be stable. This is why you run a memory divider (ie: FSB 166 5:6). The article posted earlier in this thread is excellent on explaining the whole A64 overclocking thing. You should read up on it.
Click to expand...
my memory is good for 250MHz, with loose timings and 3.2v (2.5-4-4-11) now, i need to figure ouw to volt mod the memory on my MSI NEO PLAT.
 
Currently @ 2.5ghz on stock voltage :)

I had to set my mem low though to get that high but I have new mem that should run better coming

250 HTT
20x multi

seems fine so far :)
 
which motherboard would be best to get a 3200+ clawhammer to 2.45 or higher I have an asetek watercooling kit a chaintech vnf3-250 msi k8n or aopen ak89
 
umbra said:
which motherboard would be best to get a 3200+ clawhammer to 2.45 or higher I have an asetek watercooling kit a chaintech vnf3-250 msi k8n or aopen ak89
Click to expand...
Im not sure if the 3200+ clawhammers are good for 2.4+ no matter what motherboard you use. I havent seen to many high overclocks on that core.
 
I(illa Bee said:
my memory is good for 250MHz, with loose timings and 3.2v (2.5-4-4-11) now, i need to figure ouw to volt mod the memory on my MSI NEO PLAT.
Click to expand...

I plan to get some ddr 500 ram too. I wonder, if the ram is good for 250, and I lower the multiplier, since I will be using a 939 chip that has a higher HTT clock, and I will be using the msi k8n-neo2, I should be able to run the ran at 250 1:1 right? Or at least hopefully?
 
Zyzzyva100 said:
I plan to get some ddr 500 ram too. I wonder, if the ram is good for 250, and I lower the multiplier, since I will be using a 939 chip that has a higher HTT clock, and I will be using the msi k8n-neo2, I should be able to run the ran at 250 1:1 right? Or at least hopefully?
Click to expand...
What is the HTT clock of the socket 939? I thought it was the same 800Mhz, (1600Mhz efective)

One would think DDR500 is good for 250, right? Mine is KHX PC3500
 
I(illa Bee said:
What is the HTT clock of the socket 939? I thought it was the same 800Mhz, (1600Mhz efective)

One would think DDR500 is good for 250, right? Mine is KHX PC3500
Click to expand...

Oh, maybe it is only 800, I was thinking that it was 1000 (2000 Mhz effective). I know I read that somewhere, maybe it was just on a roadmap.

Either way I plan to buy some nice ram with the new hynix chips.
 
Zyzzyva100 said:
Oh, maybe it is only 800, I was thinking that it was 1000 (2000 Mhz effective). I know I read that somewhere, maybe it was just on a roadmap.

Either way I plan to buy some nice ram with the new hynix chips.
Click to expand...
what are the new Hyndix chip numbers? What can those chips do? Any better than BH-5 or BH-6? or CH-5 for that matter?
 
I don't know that those chips are any better than BH5, since they don't run real tight timings. They are rated for 250, but at anandtech etc they have gotten them up to around 300.

As far as the HTT speeds, the MSI K8N-neo 2 specs state that the HTT speeds supported by the board are 1000 mhz (2000 effective), and I hear that the HTT scales well on the chip, so I have real hope that I can approach the results achieved by anandtech.

BTW, I emailed the guy that wrote the review, and he said they used the OCZ 4400 EL memory to get their results in the review..
 
I don't remember where I read it, but I found a place that adjusted the HHT bus up and down without changing anything else. Turns out there is so much bandwidth for HTT and even clocked way slow there was no performance difference.
 
The HT for Socket 939 is 1GHz or 2GHz two-way. HTT is still 200MHz since LDT got increased to 5x.
 
A64 3000+ ( Revision CG) & MSI K8N Neo Platinum (Bios 1.3)
2300Mhz
10 x 230
CPU @ 1.6v
Memory @ 2.75v

The room is 75F right now and the cpu temp is 43C idle and 55C (peaked at 57C for a few seconds) full load. Running an Alpha PAL8150T with a Thermaltake Smart Fan II. I think I could lower temps a bit if I were using Arctic Silver 5 instead of 2, but I don't really care that much currently.

I can get the chip up to 10 x 250 but it errors out something fierce. 10 x 230 seems to be the most stable I can get unless I get some better ram, which I may do eventually. 300Mhz overclock on the chip completely stable though, I can't really be unhappy with that.
 
Cactus Jack said:
A64 3000+ ( Revision CG) & MSI K8N Neo Platinum (Bios 1.3)
2300Mhz
10 x 230

Rock stable in Prime95 and in gaming benchmarks. 300Mhz overclock? Not too shabby. :)
Click to expand...


What kind of voltage and cooling? Temps?
 
A64 3000+ (CG/AX)
Shuttle AN51R
2x512Mb Corsair XMS Pro PC4000 3-4-4-8

With ClockGen I´ve got it to HTT 255 x 10, 1:1, everything on default voltage.
I´m running it 24/7 @ 230x10, 1:1 on default voltage and it's stable as a rock. Prime95 test for 12 hours and some D3, CoD and CS play.

I want to go higher but my temps arent that good. Idle my CPU temp is ~47°C and in Prime95 it's ~60°C. I have the stock HSF and some AS5. I am thinking about buying Zalman 7000CU and maybe a chipset heatsink also.

Do you think my mobo is reading the temps wrong ? Sometimes my system(chipset) temp goes really high, what do you think is a normal temp for my chipset?

Edit:
Okey, I updated my BIOS and now SpeedFan shows me CPU temp of 39-41°C and System temp 34°C when OCed to 2300Mhz. That seems to be right.
I think i can pop up my vDIMM to 2.9,should i do that? How far do you think i should set my vCore to handle more speed?

Edit #2:
Set my CPU voltage to 1.6(1.55) and Primed overnight at 240x10 and HTT multi(LTD?) at 3.
 
Woo, I've been having MAJOR grief, and I've found out it's down to my ram, anyway with one module in...

Athlon 64 3400+ (2200MHz Clawhammer CAAOC) got it to do 11x236 (Approx 2600) and Central brian identifies its P rating as 4010 :eek:

That's just the sort of result I was after, was determined to get it a little faster than what's on the market at the mo. (well not strictly true due to it being single channel.)

Set the vcore in the BIOS at 1.7V (really hoping the next BIOS allows higher!). No problems booting, but freezed up in Windows (thats one of the not so bad signs when overclocking right? as opposed to reboots and BSOD?)

Well I'm guessing I need a little more Vcore.

By the way, I'm aircooling, the winning combination as always, a trusty tornado and some incarnation of those kickass Thermalright heatsinks.

I'm loving this CPU now, arithmetic scores higher that a P4 3.6GHz HT, so I'm well pleased.



Really stressed about the ram though. I bought some dual channel sticks, I know its a single mobo, but should they work alright? I've also got a single stick (the one I'm using) to go with it. They are the same brand and speed etc, except the dual channel one doesn't have as good timings, ie CL2.5 whereas the other is CL2.

Booting is potluck with all 3 DIMMS, is it a voltage issue, or is the A64 dictating to me?
 
AMD A64 3200+ (512mb L2)
Asus K8V SE Deluxe
Buffalo 512mb PC3700 Cas3
Stock HS/Fan

I have this at 11x220 with memory at 1:1 running fine. However I'd like to push it up higher so I'll be getting a diff mobo.
 
Zero1 said:
Really stressed about the ram though. I bought some dual channel sticks, I know its a single mobo, but should they work alright? I've also got a single stick (the one I'm using) to go with it. They are the same brand and speed etc, except the dual channel one doesn't have as good timings, ie CL2.5 whereas the other is CL2.

Booting is potluck with all 3 DIMMS, is it a voltage issue, or is the A64 dictating to me?
Click to expand...

A64 systems are really picky about ram. This is why people try different DIMM slots as one configuration might not boot at all. What are you trying to run the 3 sticks at? CAS 2 definitely will not work...you will have to try your luck with CAS 2.5 or 3. And tRCD might have to be lowered.
 
well i've jumped in too, however i'm still trying to find the upper limit.

at the moment, i've got a 3200+ clawhammer (CG rev.) at 250x9, but at 1.7v... it's perfectly stable however, and possibly has a lot more headroom.
idle temps are about 42c with a zalman cnps7000-cu, but it's with an msi k8n neo plat., which seems to have a reputation for reporting temps that are slightly hot (btw- to people who have this board, do you ever get your audio to go to about 1/2 speed when you overclock?)

umm, lets see... yeah, i'll get back to this when i find a good clock ceiling

edit: ok, i maxed out around 2.53ghz with 1.7v... i'll try more voltage later
and as a side note, it appears that i have a max htt of 296mhz (with multi at 3, i've got it to go 235x4 though, so the actual speed shouldn't be limiting me). to those of you with a k8n neo, make sure you put the sata drives on the 3rd and 4th plugs, otherwise the htt speed will be limited to about 230-240
 
so cas2 memory won't be accepted by the A64? piss! when i got my AXP i scoured to get CAS2 mem, now i have to revert to 2.5?
also, is it even possible to get higher multipliers? (like the pencil trick, wire trick, speedstrip, etc...)

i have a A643000 cg stepping, Abit KV8 pro and 512 Geil pc3200 CAS2 memory. will they play nice when i OC? i also have some CAS2 pc3200 from ocsystem.com. i doubt that would be a good stick to use...
 
guilTy said:
so cas2 memory won't be accepted by the A64? piss! when i got my AXP i scoured to get CAS2 mem, now i have to revert to 2.5?
also, is it even possible to get higher multipliers? (like the pencil trick, wire trick, speedstrip, etc...)

i have a A643000 cg stepping, Abit KV8 pro and 512 Geil pc3200 CAS2 memory. will they play nice when i OC? i also have some CAS2 pc3200 from ocsystem.com. i doubt that would be a good stick to use...
Click to expand...

Cas 2 is fine. Take a look at my sig.

Sounds like it should work fine, just try the sticks and see if it works, the most you can lose is a night running memtest86 for testing.
 
sorry, knew i forgot something

All A64's you can change their mulitpliers, but only down.

Most new bios releases have that feature for most boards. There is no other way as far as I know or have heard that multipliers can be changed.
 
hmmm, maybe if i study the processor tech-docs, i may find something...<rubs chin>

ehh, if i am wrong i can post that what i do DOESN'T work and advise against it...then buy a new proc...
 
I have a FX53 system.
It's not entirely true that all A64's will only change multipliers down. FX's change up as well.
I've found and it can be verified that CAS latency with FX A64's is much more important than FSB at any time. RAM settings at 2,2,2,10 seem to be the fastest for an FX system.

The FX is much faster 13x208 2.7 GHz at 2,2,2,10 than the cpu at 11x245 2.7 Ghz 3,4,4,10.
Since the memory controller is on the chip itself, it needs the information faster than the slower timings can provide it.
 
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