Advice: AMD X2 64 5200+ Windsor

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roachm

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
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Hello everyone, looking for a little advice here and I apologize in advance for the long post.

I'm currently trying to get the last bit of performance I can out of my 4-5 year old system. I've installed some more RAM and got a new video card but my CPU is definitely bottlenecking my system overall. Mainly I need my PC to perform for Starcraft 2 and other games, which it handles decently now, I just could use a bit more out of it so I'd like to overclock it as far as it can go to try to catch up to the RAM and GPU.

The CPU is an AMD Ahtlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor (if that matters) @ 2.6 GHz, along with 8GB of Corsair XMS2 DDR2 PC2-6400, and an eVGA GTX 550 Ti, all put into a Gigabyte M57SLI-S4 motherboard. So I was thinking if I could get the CPU closer to 3.0, maybe even just 2.8, it might help a bit. The stock fan, being over 4 years old is on its way out anyways, so I wanted to get a new heatsink + fan as it is. So what I'm asking here, is a suggestion on which cooler would be best to go with, and if there are any particular problems I may run in to.

The last time I overclocked a CPU was an AMD XP-mobile 2500+, which was easy as pie, so basically I was wondering if I'm going to have the same easy experience, or have things changed in the last 4-5 years? FSB x multiplier = win? ;P

One last thing, I was reading a post on another forum and the person asking for advice was worried their RAM is going to hold them back. My RAM is running @ 1.8v, am I going to need to bump this up to 2.1v or something and if so how does one go about this?

Sorry for the novel, just genuinely concerned, I don't want to ruin my CPU for a 200-400mhz boost haha. Thanks in advanced to anyone who can help me out.

-roachm
 
the cooler i'd suggest is the sunbeam core contact freezer, or coolermaster hyper 212+. the 212+ is a little more expensive but you should be able to use it on what ever system you decide to upgrade to later on down the road.

as far as the cpu goes, since it is a windsor 3Ghz should be absolutely problem, i wouldn't be surprised if it hit 3.2Ghz(x2 6400+ windsor clocks).

luckily you have some nice ram and should be able to do 1066 @ 5-5-5-18 2.1v if you absolutely need to go that high. but thats a last resort option..

overclocking the 5200+ is pretty easy though there are more steps involved.

there are 4 primary things you need to deal with. the FSB(HT ref clock), CPU voltage, Hypertransport(HTT ref clock) multiplier, memory multiplier.

first step set your hypertransport clock to 3x or 400mhz(or what ever is closest to it) which ever it says in the bios.
second step set your memory to 266mhz(DDR2 533 which ever it says in the bios).
third step set your cpu voltage to 1.45v(same voltage used on the athlon x2 6400+)

after those 3 things its time to start having some fun..

at 1.45v we know it should have no issues running 2.7-2.8Ghz so i'd use that as the starting point.

so for 2.7Ghz you are looking at an FSB clock of 208x13 which will give you 2.7Ghz. run 5 passes of intel burn test just to be completely sure its stable. if it passes then slowly push it up 5mhz at a time(due to it have such a high multiplier it is easier to do 5mhz steps).

just to give a reference..
213x13 = 2.77Ghz HTT = 3x213 = 639mhz needed HTT = 5x213 =1065mhz
218x13 = 2.84Ghz HTT = 3x218 = 654mhz needed HTT = 5x218 = 1090mhz
223x13 = 2.9Ghz HTT = 3x223 = 669mhz needed HTT = 4x223 = 892mhz(you can try 5x if you want)
228x13 = 2.96Ghz HTT = 3x228 = 684mhz needed HTT = 4x228 = 912mhz
233x13 = 3.03Ghz HTT = 3x233 = 699mhz needed HTT = 4x233 = 932mhz

once you have finished finding your absolute max speed(or the most you want to get out of it) you can start fixing your hypertransport and ram multipliers(above i have the multiplier you would want to use for hypertransport if you decide to use that FSB setting). you want to keep the hyper transport around 1Ghz(2Ghz double data rate) do not go any higher than 1.1Ghz(2.2Ghz(some boards can handle it but its not worth trying to find out since there's no performance increase).

the ram you want to keep as close to DDR2 800 (i don't remember the multiplier numbers to help you with that so its something you will have to figure out on your own). it can be higher or lower than DDR2 800 just try to stay around it.

this should be a step in the right direction for you. just some key stuff, watch your temps, the windsors are rated to 70C and a maximum voltage of 1.65v. once you find your maximum overclock you can also try lowering your cpu voltage. but you should be able to hit 3Ghz around 1.4-1.43v and 3.2Ghz around 1.45v(if you have a good processor, with its age it might be a little harder to hit 3.2Ghz now). i know i've seen windsor's go as high as 3.5Ghz but those were the 5600+ and higher processors.
 
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I dont think overclocking is going to help you at all.

I use to own a Athlon X2 6400 Black Edition. I had that puppy up to 3.57ghz and I was bottlenecking my old ATI 4870.

Since that 550TI is almost 3 times faster then that old card....Well I am just trying to make you realize...no matter what you do to that CPU you are not going to get better framerates.

I would buy a cheap Athlon II X4 CPU and call it a day, It will smoke that old proc over what you got now.
 
DASHlT said:
I dont think overclocking is going to help you at all.

I use to own a Athlon X2 6400 Black Edition. I had that puppy up to 3.57ghz and I was bottlenecking my old ATI 4870.

Since that 550TI is almost 3 times faster then that old card....Well I am just trying to make you realize...no matter what you do to that CPU you are not going to get better framerates.

I would buy a cheap Athlon II X4 CPU and call it a day, It will smoke that old proc over what you got now.
Click to expand...

Wha??? 4870 ~= 5770 ~= 550Ti, at least that's what I thought. In fact if anything, I bet the 4870 is faster than the 550

Also I think that CPU has enough power to stay relevant if overclocked. SC2 is unfortunately one of the most CPU bound games out there so every little bit will help. Make SURE you have every effect that even partially depends on the CPU turned all the way down, physics esp.
 
yottabit said:
Wha??? 4870 ~= 5770 ~= 550Ti, at least that's what I thought

Also I think that CPU has enough power to stay relevant if overclocked. SC2 is unfortunately one of the most CPU bound games out there so every little bit will help. Make SURE you have every effect that even partially depends on the CPU turned all the way down, physics esp.
Click to expand...

No overclocking that CPU wont help at all.

Upgrade the CPU.....leave everything else alone and your frames will double I shit you not.

when I went from a 6400+ X2 @ 3.57ghz to a 3.0ghz phenom II X4. It was night and day.

getting 200-400 mhz on your CPU might get you another 1-2FPS extra....maybe.

And Wow the 4870 still that powerful eh?....Guess I might have to sell it.
 
My motherboard is a Gigabyte M57SLI-S4 AM2 socket 940, so I'd have to upgrade my mobo to get full use of a Phenom no? If I could get a much better CPU for cheap and bypass a lot of overclocking and whatnot, I'm all for it. But I don't think my mobo fully supports those CPUs, it would work, but it would be limited, so not worth it.

Thanks to everyone for the help especially sirmonkey, thats exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I will be giving this a shot as soon as I can grab a new cooler, just had to buy a new monitor since the one I am using is borrowed and the owner needs it back :p

And yes SC2 is verry CPU intensive, I do have all my settings as low as needed to run the game smooth, since speed is extremely important to me, but I do think overclocking even a bit will help, so thanks again to everyone for helping :) I will try to post an update when I get this done to let everyone know how it went

I just looked for a motherboard that would work with my system plus get full use of a new Phenom CPU, but it seems all socket AM3 boards are DDR3, since I have DDR2 ram this is starting to look like it would be more hassle and money than I'm looking to spend. Might be better to just get the cooler and overclock this thing as far as its willing to go. Ride this system til I can afford a sandy bridge system, or whatever its successor is going to be by the time I have the money :p
 
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Yea I agree, getting a better cooler to crank out an extra couple hundred Mhz out of your current CPU is going to barely get you a little, if any, noticeable difference in games.

But actually, it looks like your MoBo does support some P II's, you just gotta update your bios.

It looks like the best it will support is the 95W x4 955, but it doesn't seem readily available to buy, it might be for OEMs only. So your next best shot is the 95W x4 945, which is available.

It currently isn't available at newegg, you can find it at amazon though:
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-Phenom-Socket-Quad-Core-Processor/dp/B002XNBQJQ
Or you might find a better price if you look for a used one.

And with a new cpu, it still wouldn't hurt to pickup a new cooler too.
 
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this is what it says on the Gigabyte site about Phenom processor support:

The AMD Phenom™ processors are an ideal choice for multi-media enthusiasts and intensive multi-tasking environments to offer significant performance boosts and provides an overall more energy efficient platform.
(Note) If you install AMD AM3/AM2+ CPU on AM2 motherbord, the system bus speed will downgrade from HT3.0(5200MHz) to HT1.0(2000 MT/s) spec; however, the frequency of AM3/AM2+ CPU will not be impacted. Please refer "CPU Support List" for more information.

The processor is listed in the support list, I'm pretty sure, but would it be limited? Would this make it not worth doing or would this not really affect me?

Links:

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2287#ov

http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2287


EDIT: Also I'm in Canada, so I would need to order from a Canadian site like (apparently I can't list the site, en see eye ecks, just manual fix link )[mods sorry I am just looking for help no one else will notice] I found this: http://++++.com/products/?sku=61871&vpn=HDX925WFK4DGM&manufacture=AMD Its a 925, 95W, would that work?
 
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Thanks alot, for 109.99 how can I not justify getting it? :p Won't be long :D

Edit: I found the CPU in the list of supported processors, and I found the BIOS version I have to update to to support it. Awesome, looks like I won't have to buy a whole new system for a long time. How much of an improvement will it be to go from the X2 5200+ to the Phenom II X4 945? I'm assuming the biggest difference will be because its a quad-core CPU?
 
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roachm said:
Thanks alot, for 109.99 how can I not justify getting it? :p Won't be long :D

Edit: I found the CPU in the list of supported processors, and I found the BIOS version I have to update to to support it. Awesome, looks like I won't have to buy a whole new system for a long time. How much of an improvement will it be to go from the X2 5200+ to the Phenom II X4 945? I'm assuming the biggest difference will be because its a quad-core CPU?
Click to expand...

When i went from my 6400 Black edition X2, to the 940 phenom II x4, I use to be a huge world of warcraft player back then.

The best example of how much CPU limiting i was doing was when On the 6400+ I would always idle at 20-25fps in Dalaran. Once I got the phenom It was around 50-60fps just sitting in Dalaran (using the same 4870 same settings)

Also when the big battles happened while playing COD4 at the time i didnt lag or stutter anymore....

These were some of the real difference I noticed when I made the leap awhile back.

Good luck with your new Phenom II X4 :)
 
roachm said:
Thanks alot, for 109.99 how can I not justify getting it? :p Won't be long :D

Edit: I found the CPU in the list of supported processors, and I found the BIOS version I have to update to to support it. Awesome, looks like I won't have to buy a whole new system for a long time. How much of an improvement will it be to go from the X2 5200+ to the Phenom II X4 945? I'm assuming the biggest difference will be because its a quad-core CPU?
Click to expand...


with your graphic card it will be like going from a prius to a corvette.. to give you an idea.. a single core on a phenom II 945 will out perform both cores on your 5200+.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
with your graphic card it will be like going from a prius to a corvette.. to give you an idea.. a single core on a phenom II 945 will out perform both cores on your 5200+.
Click to expand...

Excellent, I'm rather excited then and if I like Star Wars: The Old Republic as much as I hope I'm going to, I should be able to keep this PC for at least 2+ more years. Thanks to everyone for the responses, they are very much appreciated, I always know to come here when I really need some legitimate answers. (probably why I've stuck around for ~7 years haha ;P)
 
Just installed the new AMD Phenom II X4 945 and my PC booted perfectly fine first try, but it took a lot longer than usual to get going, I assume this is because Windows is detecting the new CPU?

But I do have a question, would I be better suited to re-install Windows 7 since installing the CPU? Or does it not matter? I know when you install a new motherboard you obviously need to, but since they're both AMD 64-bit CPUs, could I get away with not bothering? At least for a while?

I'll post back here after running some games and stuff to see how much better it is. Thanks to everyone who suggested I get the Phenom, I think this was a wise choice.
 
I jumped from an X2 4200 up to a well it's an Athlon II x4 but huge performance difference in some taskts on core on the new CPU is equal to both cores on the older one! The x2 4200 lasted well though still using it given it to my son and it's working fine (new PSU old Antec blew up!)

Don't worry about the booting it will sort itself out
 
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