AGP/PCI Lock

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obyj34

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Nov 18, 2003
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AMD newbie here, but I'm thinking about making a switch to the A64. From what I read overclocking an A64 is rather limited and that AGP/PCI mhz can limit total overclock (though you can't directly compare AMD to Intel in terms of mhz), so my question is, are there any boards with solid AGP/PCI locks?
 
None that I know of at the moment. Supposedly the new, yet to hit retail channels, nForce3-250 series has working locks but I haven't seen any boards with them yet. On the VIA front, the K8-800 "Pro" chipset supposedly also has working locks but I haven't even seen demos of it yet.
 
The next generation chipsets are both supposed to have a working lock. Don't know if it's true about the VIA one (as VIA has never, ever implemented a successful AGP/PCI lock). Also, i think one of the Abit K8 boards has a divider set up for the AGP and PCI, so that's just as good as a lock (although you have to set it manually, to the best ratio, but there are lots of ratios to pick from). Abit marketing also says that they will have an nForce 3 250 board out in May, which supposedly, has working locks.
 
I think Anandtech received a nf3-250 reference board, overclocked it, and verified that it had working locks.
 
Well I'll likley be building upon release of the R420 (since it comes out after the NV40), and I really don't want to wait for the immature PCI-E. So A64 seems best fit for me. Any estimates that these new chipsets will be out by this time?
 
The nF250 should defiently be out by that time, hopefully in larger quantities in the next few weeks, fingers crossed.
 
Originally posted by MemoryInAGarden
I think Anandtech received a nf3-250 reference board, overclocked it, and verified that it had working locks.
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yeah, but if you read the article carefully, you'll find that the reference nf3-150 also has a working pci lock, and nvidia claims that a bios update will fix the lock issue on the retail boards
 
Originally posted by (cf)Eclipse
yeah, but if you read the article carefully, you'll find that the reference nf3-150 also has a working pci lock, and nvidia claims that a bios update will fix the lock issue on the retail boards
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It was a BIOS issue with the nForce3 150 boards. nForce3 250 will have a working PCI lock, considering Anandtech actually tested it.
 
I'm sure they also tested and verified that the nforce 3 150 reference board also had a "working agp/pci lock" only to find out it just wasn't so on most retail boards.

I think/believe my AN50R has a working agp/pci lock, but since anand put out that article, everyone jumped to the conclusion that NO nforce 150 board has a working lock.

Currently 220x11 (that should put me well over 70 agp clock) with a saphire 9800..

I suggest everyone wait and see. If the prices are close to the that of the FX/opteron boards (extra crap for dual channel memory) I probably won't be upgrading for a long long time.
 
That's another myth put out by Anandtech. The shuttle board does NOT have a working lock! It was later tested with an oscillator. Some boards have several dividers that will attempt to bring the speeds as close to 66/33 as possible, but none has a lock.
 
I thought A64 boards could run memory asynch without a significant performance hit, such as on the intel boards? If that's the case, then who cares about a PCI/AGP lock?
 
unless you have a FX chip, you're multiplier locked, so you have to crank up the FSB.... hence the need for a pci/agp lock
 
Considering the OC level ofthese chips righ now (minimal) Iwould go with the board with the most features and be happy.
 
Originally posted by Jason711
abits new board will have the locks..

http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=176

and its based on the K8T800
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it's not a chipset level lock then, and it's purely something abit came up with.. kudos for them, but we'll see how it works.. personally, I don't know how I feel with the mobo make using their engineering mojo to perform a feature that the chipset should be doing..
 
Originally posted by operaman
Considering the OC level ofthese chips righ now (minimal) Iwould go with the board with the most features and be happy.
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ever think that the oc potential isn't too high, due to the lack of the lock?? ;)
 
if the lock works well.. i really do not mind how it is rendered..
 
Originally posted by dainthomas
If that's the case, then who cares about a PCI/AGP lock?
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The AGP/PCI lock matters because PCI and AGP devices will stop working at unacceptably high clocks, and it will render your overclocked configuration unstable despite asynchronous memory clocks and an otherwise stable configuration.
 
Originally posted by Barnaby
ever think that the oc potential isn't too high, due to the lack of the lock?? ;)
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Unless anandtech and this website are filled with stupid people for reviewers I would say not...;)
 
Originally posted by operaman
Unless anandtech and this website are filled with stupid people for reviewers I would say not...;)
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Ummm ya, almost all reviewers have been saying that it is the motherboards fault not the chips that is holding back the OC. There just isnt a stellar A64 board out yet to truly tell the oc ability of these chips.
 
Originally posted by operaman
Unless anandtech and this website are filled with stupid people for reviewers I would say not...;)
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Um.. let's try to explain it another way.. If there is no PCI/AGP lock, than there is only so far you can oc a board before your vid card and pci devices are running so far out of spec, they make the system unstable..

SO, if no boards have a working lock yet, then there is only so far you can oc the A64's... Thus we are limited by the board, not the chips, and can't really make a clear statement on how well we can OC them....
 
Some AGP/PCI devices are more tolerant than others. For example, most NIC cards will fuck up if you run them at anything other than 33Mhz, while most sound cards will operate properly even at 60-70Mhz PCI. While Radeons (the newer models, at least) tend not to like anything over 67-75MHz AGP, most nVidia cards can easily take over a 100, and run stable with no artifacts.

The real issue with the abscence of the lock is data corruption. Because the IDE controller shares the exact same bus, and exact same frequency as PCI, it also will be forced to read/write out of spec, and will corrupt everything given half a chance. While this occurs with IDE drives, it doesn't affect SATA drives, as they run off their own, separate clock. Unfortunately, there are no SATA CD-ROM drives, so they tend to get a lot of errors reading (so it has to try and read over and over again), and errors burning, and one error will ruin everything, unless it's a rewritable you're using.
 
Originally posted by Barnaby
Um.. let's try to explain it another way.. If there is no PCI/AGP lock, than there is only so far you can oc a board before your vid card and pci devices are running so far out of spec, they make the system unstable..

SO, if no boards have a working lock yet, then there is only so far you can oc the A64's... Thus we are limited by the board, not the chips, and can't really make a clear statement on how well we can OC them....
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I fully realize the board situation, but this is a different animal isn't it?? Let me phrase it another way. Uhm, is it a good idea to oc a chip where the memory controller is ON THE CHIP??? That wouldn't effect the stability of the RAM or ability to oc would it...??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let me phrase it another way. I think it is not wise to OC a system for maybe a couple of 100 mghz. If you're goona get a great OC like the old celery 333 Days where you are looking at a better than 50% or heck even 25% improvement I am for it. Otherwise why bother? I love being an enthusiast, but I am old now and prefer stability. These things are darn fast already. That's me though and it's other people's money and systems to mess with... That said, if some of you young whipper snappers gets a great OC on some of these, I will be all over it :D :D :D
 
Originally posted by operaman
I fully realize the board situation, but this is a different animal isn't it?? Let me phrase it another way. Uhm, is it a good idea to oc a chip where the memory controller is ON THE CHIP??? That wouldn't effect the stability of the RAM or ability to oc would it...??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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There's always a memory divider.
 
Originally posted by DaveX
There's always a memory divider.
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Ugh... Why do people have to overclock super machines. Isn't the whole point to OC'ing NOT to pay full price? To get performance enhancements from a lesser chip at half the price. Now we are inundated with 3D Mark this and Winstone that, and how many FPS. AAAAHHH!!! Who cares... If the computer runs fast that should be enough. The difference is so negligible that unless you are some kind of world champ at said FPS game (which a lot of times these guys turn all details off for max FPS) it's pretty pointless other than for braggin' rights. Man I must be getting old...:eek: Hey it's you guys's money, but I am not stupid for NOT wanting to do it just like you are not stupid FOR doing it. I just think it's pointless when a system is that awesome already. Why risk blowing up an awesome rig...Now that 2.4A (Pres hot... er I mean Prescot), overclock that puppy(3.2 air with that huge cache wow..). Or a mobile Athlon. THAT I understand...
 
Why do you overclock powerful machines?
To make them more powerful.

I laugh whenever I read about new Alienware (or Falcon, or any company like that) FX-51, Radeon 9800XT machines which go for $5,000 which I know I can build with equal or greater performance for less than $2,000.
 
Originally posted by obyj34
Why do you overclock powerful machines?
To make them more powerful.

I laugh whenever I read about new Alienware (or Falcon, or any company like that) FX-51, Radeon 9800XT machines which go for $5,000 which I know I can build with equal or greater performance for less than $2,000.
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Yea, some dude at microcente dropped 1700 big ones. I was thinking I could have saved him 700...;) ;) ;)

Building your own is the only way to go. You think I could afford to buy what was in my sig at retail?? Pleez...As for oc'ing I do understand. I am just lazy...:D :D :D
 
power is perception.. make it what you want it to be.

it really doesnt matter what you overclock.
 
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