SPARTAN VI
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Precisely. I agree that you should wait. I did for over a year while barely content with performance (0xAA in CoH and M2TW). Took this long to find a satisfactory upgrade.
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AMD ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 Preview
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Precisely. I agree that you should wait. I did for over a year while barely content with performance (0xAA in CoH and M2TW). Took this long to find a satisfactory upgrade.
Nvidia have always dominated Crysis.
When 4870x2 comes out, we will have more games, hopefully!
btw cfx on my 850 watts ocz failed hard, 4 rails couldnt split load so it failed CFX, bought a 750 watt and ran nice, bought another one for dual psu setup and <3! cheaper than 1x 1200 watts psu =) and i got 1500 watts =) at disposal.
The single rail 750 watt drew my CFX with my phenom nicely!
while the quadrail 850 watt failed.
make sure the rails can do it, by splitting the load, or a singlerail is ezy, just connect and ur done.
When 4870x2 comes out, we will have more games, hopefully!
btw cfx on my 850 watts ocz failed hard, 4 rails couldnt split load so it failed CFX, bought a 750 watt and ran nice, bought another one for dual psu setup and <3! cheaper than 1x 1200 watts psu =) and i got 1500 watts =) at disposal.
The single rail 750 watt drew my CFX with my phenom nicely!
while the quadrail 850 watt failed.
make sure the rails can do it, by splitting the load, or a singlerail is ezy, just connect and ur done.
That isn't the point. The point is the graphics engine for future games. By taking a larger sample size of graphics engines you would show how "robust" a setup is. If you just looked at the AoC numbers for example, you'd think that 2x280s sucks balls. However, that is a specific game that SLI doesn't scale well with. Crysis, for example, SLI seems to scale really well.
It would be nice to see that good or bad, the scaling is or is not an issue in various games. It is not a guarntee of future games, but it is a start. Like I said, just a small bit added, like a page for a bunch of older games.
Brent_Justice
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Intensive or not, we'll take a look at it if its popular.
here - http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/3...ncludes-Significant-Performance-Optimisations
Surely you can go back and look at perf here in comparison when we review final drivers and hardware.
I'd like to see some comparisons between this card and the 8800GTX at 1280x1024. I'd be interested to know what the upgrade would give in those circumstances. There are still quite a few of us gamers out here that are not running the monster resolutions on widescreens. Seems reviews are not even going to mess with us low life's anymore. 
Nenu
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I'd like to see some comparisons between this card and the 8800GTX at 1280x1024. I'd be interested to know what the upgrade would give in those circumstances. There are still quite a few of us gamers out here that are not running the monster resolutions on widescreens. Seems reviews are not even going to mess with us low life's anymore.
What do you hope to see?
Are there any games (other than Crysis) that you cant run at max quality?
At that res, probably 500fps with 24X AA
At that res, probably 500fps with 24X AA
That got me thinking, what's the FPS of Quake 2 now days?
Silent.Sin
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Didn't one of the main developers, or perhaps someone even higher up on the food chain, state that they flubbed the settings in Crysis? High should have been "Very High" and Very High should have been something else, maybe "Extreme"..something to that effect. I can't find the quote right now but I know for certain it's out there, maybe around the same time as that article you quoted came out. It makes me question what they really meant with that quote there. Are they actually going to change the settings profiles for Warhead? Do they mean that the $620 PC will run it at what we now consider to be Medium settings? That's nothing new, slap a barebones X2 system together with a 3850 or an 8800GT and you can do that. If they really mean they've enable the same system to run on present-day High settings...well that's quite the programming achievement.
It'd still be interesting to see what Warhead runs at with AA and other bells and whistles even if they did somehow magically make the Crysis engine run like hot butter, it's one of the best looking pieces of technology out there.
EDIT: Well I did find a forum post with a partial quote: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=5697843 - I seriously doubt an 8600GT can run that engine with what we consider today as High...
Silent.Sin
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I was reading an interview about Quake Live today and it got me reminiscing over Q3 so I got the hankerin to find out just how it does play on my 3850 512MB.
System specs:
S939 X2 3800+ @ 10x240
2GB(4x512MB) Corsair 3200LLPro @ 200MHz 2-3-3-7
3850 512MB @ 750/990
Default demo used: FOUR.DM_68
s_initsound 0
point release 1.32
Resolution: 1440x900
AF was set to 16x for all tests, trilinear filtering checked ingame
Here's what I got, kind of in backwards order:
ED24xMSAA: 185
ED24xSSAA: 183
ED24xFSAA : 189
WT16xMSAA: 175
WT16xSSAA: 175
WT16xFSAA : 179
NT12xMSAA : 194
NT12xSSAA : 194
NT12xFSAA : 198
8xMSAA : 417
8xSSAA : 418
8xFSAA : 425
NoAA : 450
ED = edge detect, WT = wide tent, NT = narrow tent, otherwise it's "Box".
SS and MS Adaptive AA were set to the setting farthest on the right
Aside: Someone else in this thread asked for an explanation of these settings and damn I want that too! I don't know if for MSAA if I want "smooth" or "sharp"???What the hell does that mean anyway? I want AA to be smooth...but I want it to look sharp and not blurry...what the hell do I pick?
Anyway I digress. Looks like the tent/edge detect AA filters have something holding them back here. Box AA worked just fine and dandy and brought out numbers closer to what I expected.
I know AMD just put ED capability into OpenGL recently, but damn, cut the framerate in half? I'm also not sure of my config file as this wasn't a fresh install, but it should be close to the default "max" settings. It also seems to scale as one would expect in increasing AA levels. I had some minor apps running in the background but I really honestly expected much more, especially with no AA enabled at all. Fillrate FTL?
LOL 24 feet? I know it's a typo but it sure made me laugh.
cannondale06
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actually the 8600gt can easlily run CoD4 and on highest settings too but no AA and stay below 1280. above that and it will need medium settings. of course having and decent dual core cpu will help.9600gt? 8600gt can barely even run cod4 and they want high in crysis?!?!
right...did you max out textures and corpses? my 3850 doesnt fare too well at 1280 with everything maxed. In most levels even though avg fps maybe 50+ in action heavy sequences/checkpoints rapid drops to 20fps at times is not fun.
cannondale06
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overclocked at 1280x960 I can get an average of about 35-45 with occasional drops of course. 1024x768 is a little better though.
heres a stock 8600gt getting 36fps at 1280x1024. http://www.gamespot.com/features/6183967/p-4.html
also according to that you should be getting much better fps with your card. maybe the agp slot is holding the 3850 back?
I get alright fps, like I said around 40-50 but in some parts of sp especially the last level during heavy firefights rapid fps drops too 20 are not helpful for aiming. Lowest fps I've seen on average is around 20 something unless I take a screen shot in which case it plummets to 0. I can probably run through the tank mission right now with fraps and see what I get. My cpu can also factor in heavily here, even a x2 5500+ is only equivalent to a core 2 duo 2.33 stock.
Jaguar Jim1
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Totally Astounding, Great Preview, just enough to make even the Most [H]ardcore Gamer Salivate at things to come. I've been waiting to jump over to 1920 x 1280 Gaming, and it looks like the wait was worth Holding my Dollars Tight to my Chest.
Entire system including one 4870x2.
Thanks
That means I should be fine then with the upgrade power-wise. This card with the addition of an 8400 CPU (overclocked as far as I can take it) should keep my system humming along nice till my next upgrade.
AceGoober
Live! Laug[H]! Overclock!
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Thanks for the preview guys! Dugg.
Anxiously awaiting the retail benches to come out.
Anxiously awaiting the retail benches to come out.
I am really sad to see people with 19x12 or lower LCDs talking about CF 4870X2 and TriSLI 280s, as has been already stated the 4870/260s already made 19x12 gaming quite reasonable outside Crysis. The sadness comes from seeing that power and money wasting are still a major force behind the gaming marketing
these setups are geared toward 2560x1600 LCDs, and this time with higher AA modes enabled. Not only the 4870X2 made single-slot-VGA gaming possible at 2560x1600 (again outside Crysis) but it upped the ante by enabling free AA modes.
as a recent 2560x1600 owner i would rather stop playing a game or accept lower image quality than go back to my Acer 2616w. and BTW 25x16 does NOT hamper the use of 2 screens, you may even run both at 25x16with an 8800gt
and i really liked the suggestion to use 2 "cheap" sub 800w PSUs instead of a single +1000w one. even so i still think that the best solution for 25x16 gamers is to get a single slot VGA (4870X2 or an OC watercooled 280) and play at 25x16 with lower image quality until something powerful and cheaper comes around. CF 4870X2 seens like overkill because by the time games that are unplayable with a single 4870X2 comes around there will be much cheaper and better VGAs to buy.
The 4870X2 made 25x16 gaming a reality, but in doing so quite killed the Highend multiGPU beauty. Until last Sunday the most cost/effective gaming solution for 25x16 was a 4850sCF/260sSLI setup, and now no one is going to use CF/SLI to play at 25x16. they will just wait for the games to catch up and when this happens change VGAs and i still remeber the first time someone convince me that there was a game that NEEDED SLI 8800GTX when the card launched: it was Oblivion at 2560x1600!
these setups are geared toward 2560x1600 LCDs, and this time with higher AA modes enabled. Not only the 4870X2 made single-slot-VGA gaming possible at 2560x1600 (again outside Crysis) but it upped the ante by enabling free AA modes.
as a recent 2560x1600 owner i would rather stop playing a game or accept lower image quality than go back to my Acer 2616w. and BTW 25x16 does NOT hamper the use of 2 screens, you may even run both at 25x16with an 8800gt
and i really liked the suggestion to use 2 "cheap" sub 800w PSUs instead of a single +1000w one. even so i still think that the best solution for 25x16 gamers is to get a single slot VGA (4870X2 or an OC watercooled 280) and play at 25x16 with lower image quality until something powerful and cheaper comes around. CF 4870X2 seens like overkill because by the time games that are unplayable with a single 4870X2 comes around there will be much cheaper and better VGAs to buy.
The 4870X2 made 25x16 gaming a reality, but in doing so quite killed the Highend multiGPU beauty. Until last Sunday the most cost/effective gaming solution for 25x16 was a 4850sCF/260sSLI setup, and now no one is going to use CF/SLI to play at 25x16. they will just wait for the games to catch up and when this happens change VGAs
and i still remeber the first time someone convince me that there was a game that NEEDED SLI 8800GTX when the card launched: it was Oblivion at 2560x1600!You talk like people have 1 set monitor/resolution for life.I am really sad to see people with 19x12 or lower LCDs talking about CF 4870X2 and TriSLI 280s, as has been already stated the 4870/260s already made 19x12 gaming quite reasonable outside Crysis. The sadness comes from seeing that power and money wasting are still a major force behind the gaming marketing
I don't know about you.. but I would rather upgrade my video card way before I would upgrade my monitor.
If I upgrade my monitor to a much bigger size, I would always want to play at the native resolution. But if my hardware cant handle that then I am shit out of luck and have to scale down and make things look horrible.
Shoot when I bought my 8800 I was playing on a 17 in 1280x1024 monitor. the when I got enough cash I moved up to a 24in. 1920x1200
I know my p.o.s. Radeon x1600 pro would never play any game at that high of resolution. That is why I made the better choice of buying a video card first rather then the monitor.
Shoot, even sometimes now I even get my DVI to HDMI cable and hook up my 8800 to my 42' plasma and play Battlefield at insanely high resolutions (2560x1600)
On-Topic: This card is sure looking great.I was really surprise at the AA performance.
I can't wait to see what the final pricing will be like.
Silent.Sin
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That 496 number has nothing to do with the draw of the 4800X2, Kyle was referring to the max system load he would put on a 620W PSU. 620 x .8 is just his rule of thumb, obviously you don't want to load it with 620x1.00.
Take a look at this page of the preview. Those are power numbers at the wall, so assuming a relatively new, effecient PSU you get ~80% efficiency AC -> DC conversion, so multiply any of those numbers by .8 to get what the system load would be on your PSU internally.
A single 4870X2 system will draw 468 * .8 = ~375W, a crossfired 2x4870X2 system will draw 686 * .8 = ~550W. So for a single 4870X2 you would want to have at least a 450 or 500W PSU with very healthy 12V rails, and for 2x4870X2s you would likely want to go for something close to 650W+. He used the Corsair 620W as a reference PSU since they had already reviewed it and shown that it was capable of sustaining a 613W (nearly 100%) load, which is absolutely outstanding, but probably none too good over an extended period.
What 42" plasma has 2560x1600? Most 42" plasmas are only 720p. It was only last year they started to release them in 1080p.
Omegas
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Seconded!
Maybe he's got a 1080p and the TV's downscaling meaning the GPU is still pushing the pixels but they just don't have anywhere to go?
honestjohn
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What would you consider a very healthy +12V rail? I'm currently using an Enermax Liberty 620W with two PCI-E 6-pin cables and a 12V rail @ 36a (+12V1 @ 22a, +12V2 @ 22a). Usually ATI makes a +12V rail recommendation for their cards, but for some reason they're only specifying wattage for the 4800 series. So at the moment I don't know if I should upgrade the PSU or not. My system has an OC'd E6600, single hard drive, single DVD Drive, and 5 case fans.
Nenu
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Check Panasonics sets from last year and this year.
Very good quality 1080p plasmas, 42" and larger and the prices are astonishing!
Nenu
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Divide Watts by 12 to get amps.
merlin704
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honestjohn
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Dude, that wasn't my question and I already said how many amps I have?
Please re-read my post. My point was there is no +12V rail specification for the 4800 Series, only Wattage is mentioned in any of the specs. Per my previous post my Enermax 620W has 36a of sustained/continuous power on the combined +12V rails or 432W divided by 12V = 36A and I wondering if that was going to be enough to power the beast.Dude, that wasn't my question.
iirc, the GPU runs off the 12Volt rail only. I don't keep up with which are quality PSUs and which aren't. I use corsairs because I know they are, and as long as they continue that traditional they'll keep my buisness.
If the enermax is a TRUE 620 Watt PSU. (Meaning it can really put out 80% of it's load without problems) You'll be ok with a 4870x2 and a non-OC'ed quad core. If you plan to OC any of it, you should get a QUALITY 750.
Silent.Sin
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That's generally what you should do. Each 4870X2 seems to be using about 175-200W at load (based on the increase in system power usage going from 1 4870X2 to 2 in the [H] preview), so assume the worst at 200W / 12V = ~16.7A per card. You should be more than okay with 1, but 2 would be too much for your system, especially at bootup time when everything runs at 100% and is fighting over those amps. Looks like your PSU would need a 6-pin to 8-pin adapter for one of those 6-pin PCIe outputs, but everything else should be kosher for 1 X2.
Nenu
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Dude, that wasn't my question and I already said how many amps I have?
You will note from the reviews, especially [H]'s that the system power (with no gfx card) and the full power used for idle and load (with gfx card) is specified.
You now have all the information you need to find the power used by the card.
Divide by 12 to get amps.
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For PSU considerations, I would suggest figure in 225w per 4870x2, which might be hard to do in real world gaming.
250w - Board, Quad Core 45nm CPU, RAM, HDs, etc.
225w - 4870X2
250w - Board, Quad Core 45nm CPU, RAM, HDs, etc.
225w - 4870X2
DangerIsGo
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Hey Kyle, I couldn't find it in the review, but I was curious: What PSU are you using in the review?
christpunchersg
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Will I be okay running a quad core system and one 4870x2 using a PC&P 750w?
MaStaFLaSH
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I'm glad 4870x2 is doing so well even at beta stage. I was thinking about a gtx280 because I was little worried about AA at high res( I`m running at 1920 x 1080). I`m also glad that ATI added more memory, it does seem to help ATI even with the greater bandwidth of gddr5. I'm getting that upgrade itch again
hmm, I dont know if you checked the reviews yet, but hd 4870 has more than enough power to run 8xAA in all games at 1920x1200, ofcourse not crysis. I have 26" samsung and everygame I got 8xAA on and it just rips through them. you only need 1gb for 2560 resolution. the card is very effecient for any 24inch monitor.
honestjohn
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phas3d
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I think the burden of proof falls squarely on your team's shoulders since the review makes references to final drivers potentially being better.