Let's accept as true AMD's explanation that the reason it doesn't want to release benchmarks for Barcelona is to limit Intel's ability to react. But doesn't that suggest that AMD believes that Intel's chips have the capacity to, if not match, at least get pretty close to the performance of Barcelona? I believe AMD when it says K10 outperforms Core 2 but I don't think AMD is worried about Core 2, it's worried about Penryn. I think one reason Intel was so free with Core 2 info was that it knew AMD simply COULDN'T react. I think AMD's secrecy with Barcelona benchmarks betrays its own belief that Intel can push Penryn hard enough to put up a good fight with Barcelona. That's not exactly encouraging for AMD and it makes me doubt whether Barcelona will give AMD the breathing room to get its bearings again.
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AMD's Barcelona Secrecy Betrays Its Belief Intel Can Match It?
- Thread starter ddarko
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Tetrahedron
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more speculation.. wow i just adore it so much.
mastercheeze
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manny calavera will post more well-thought out analysis in here in 3....2...
w1retap
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Why is this even a big deal? If they post up actual numbers before anything is released, it influences people's buying decisions. Companies take this into account, and they limit product knowledge for a reason. Personally, I like it like that. It makes a pleasant surprise for me as a consumer, and its actually a smart move on AMD's part.
I don't think it's smart at all.. Products with a lot of hype tend to sell a lot more, even if they don't quite live up to the hype. If there was more buzz surrounding Barcelona, consumers would be more likely to hold out for it.
(cf)Eclipse
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w1retap
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Exactly eclipse. 
Also, this is the computer world. It will be obsolete in 6 months. People know this, and overhype does nothing but disappoint.
Also, this is the computer world. It will be obsolete in 6 months. People know this, and overhype does nothing but disappoint.
MrWizard6600
Supreme [H]ardness
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ninty percent of consumers have no idea what barcilona is.
Cant post scores on a product thats not complete.
Let the company do what it does best.
Cant post scores on a product thats not complete.
Let the company do what it does best.
That is exactly the problem though. The last thing AMD wants is for people to hold out for Barcelona.
They are overstocked as it is.. They al;ready have an outdated product line that isnt selling well. They cant afford to have people waiting to upgrade. They need to ge the existing product inventory reduced, before the new line launches.
Even if Barcelona is ready for launch, If AMD feels inventory is too large for the existing product line, they'll delay the lauch. AMD does not have the money to write off a huge inventory... They must sell what they have, before they launch Barcelona.
Intel was able to write off Billions of dollars in P4, and P4D inventory after C2D was released. AMD cant do that. They need to sell what they have.
Rubbish.
A CPU takes 4 years to develop :
-1 year uarch
-2 for design&implementation
-1 for validation
New steppings can improve performance but no significant changes can be made to the chip.Even so , a stepping takes months to do , close to a year.Don't forget that after the new mask is sent to the FAB it takes 3 months until the new product is finished.
Even if AMD would announce all Barcelona details tomorrow , Intel has no option but to go ahead with what they planned last autuumn.
A CPU takes 4 years to develop :
-1 year uarch
-2 for design&implementation
-1 for validation
New steppings can improve performance but no significant changes can be made to the chip.Even so , a stepping takes months to do , close to a year.Don't forget that after the new mask is sent to the FAB it takes 3 months until the new product is finished.
Even if AMD would announce all Barcelona details tomorrow , Intel has no option but to go ahead with what they planned last autuumn.
You completly missed the point ( what a surprise heh ?
).Intel didn't write off its P4 inventory , but sold it at prices which made it attractive.OTOH it completly went 65nm this year and ramped Core agressively.
AMD has a over capacity problem , they produce too much , that's all.The fact that their chips are also in low demand ( altough at rock bottom prices ) doesn't help at all.
I hate to tell you guys this but AMDs Barcelona isn't ever coming out. The intel fan bois went ahead and released their disgruntled hamsters just in time to kill AMDs radioactive spider they were going to get to superchage a batch of XP 2500+'s that were set to be the Barcelonas. Now don't be too upset cause I'm sure AMD will release something eventually but maybe you got to just let this one go.
I would agree with you if the ONLY alternative to holding out for barcelona would be an AM2 system... It isn't, there is a company by the name of Intel out there with a product known as Core 2 Duo.
Anyone who is a would be hold out for Barcelona is obvioulsy looking for a high end system, the alternative of which would be the Core 2 Duo/Quad... Not Athlon.
DocFaustus
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Donkey
Maybe the numbers just aren't ready to be released?
If I remember right, Barcelona isn't due until the end of summer or fall. That's a lot of time to make a ton of tweaks and optimizations to their core.
There's always going to be a Tom or Bill in any company (except Sony) who says "I think we can do better".
If I remember right, Barcelona isn't due until the end of summer or fall. That's a lot of time to make a ton of tweaks and optimizations to their core.
There's always going to be a Tom or Bill in any company (except Sony) who says "I think we can do better".
You may be right, however if AMD is launching in the summer, then they should have final silicon by now. As a matter of fact they are probably already started the mass production, and are building adequate inventory for launch.
i agree with amd keeping quiet. helps them to sell off current inventory. it makes no difference to mass public if it's leaked or not cauase 1) they don't give a shit 2) they can't BUY it.
intel released leaked benches for Core2, it was GREAT for our community (enthusiasts) but the general public is like "is that better than PentiuM? what is that?"
Barcelona launch is not too far off, 3-4 months
intel released leaked benches for Core2, it was GREAT for our community (enthusiasts) but the general public is like "is that better than PentiuM? what is that?"
Barcelona launch is not too far off, 3-4 months
Well if you all look at the past, you will see that AMD has never been one to market their products.
This is really no different. You may as well cry out why isn't Redhat marketing their next version of Linux because Vista is released. AMD just doesn't do marketing and PR. They never have.
I'd have to say I'm pretty impressed with how AMD managed to survive the onslaught of the industrial giant that is Intel without advertising their products. Despite it, they're still very well known and praised.
The numbers will get out, and like always, it'll be spread like wildfire when it does.
This is really no different. You may as well cry out why isn't Redhat marketing their next version of Linux because Vista is released. AMD just doesn't do marketing and PR. They never have.
I'd have to say I'm pretty impressed with how AMD managed to survive the onslaught of the industrial giant that is Intel without advertising their products. Despite it, they're still very well known and praised.
The numbers will get out, and like always, it'll be spread like wildfire when it does.
Jakalwarrior
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Not only that, but convincing people to wait before buying... while you are broke as heck... doesn't help your financial situation very much.
can someone list said excuses?
yeah... i get it now.... getting people to wait for a product you DONT have ready for launch yet will help clear those warehouses full of Athlon X2's huh?
Keeping quiet does not help AMD sell their inventory. Customers are not buying Athlons or Opterons. AMD's Q4 and Q1 results already prove that.
Releasing benchmark results can't hurt AMD if customers aren't buying their existing products in the first place.
Releasing benchmark results can't hurt AMD if customers aren't buying their existing products in the first place.
Becouse Customers know what Core2 and Xeon are?
Customers buy whatever is cheapest. But Customers are also stupid in that they'll spend more if Joe from electronics tells them something else is better.
AMD's best bet is to let Customers buy what they will, and to keep there mouth so Joe doesnt hear them.
We're talking about Barcelona here. It's an expensive quad-core processor. The people buying these know what they're doing and aren't influenced by anyone in an electronics store.
All the more reason to keep quite. It is likely these people who -work- in the elctronics store. Who are going to be telling people what to buy.
Besides, we make such a tiny portion of the market that it will in no significant way impact sales.
It really is in there best interest to keep quite.
Uh, no. The decision-makers and IT professionals don't visit Best Buy to get their 2P system. Those working in electronics store always push to their customers to buy NOW. Not later.
It's in their best interests to release benchmark results. If no one is buying AMD parts in the first place, it can only harm Intel, assuming the benchmark results are good.
Although their Q4 2006 results show that they still made a profit on their "computational products segment."
We'll see if AMD is keeping quiet for the right or wrong reasons in a little while. I'm sure ES Barcelonas will be trickling onto the web in the next month or so.
Here's another angle:
AMD isn't doing very well financially.
Releasing good benchmarks will make investors happy.
Not releasing benchmarks, or poor benchmarks makes investors pull away.
Especially since AMD is already so close to the release of the CPU, I think there's much more to say for releasing benchmarks then against them.
Benchmarks will be all over the net anyway as soon as the CPUs start to reach review sites. Might aswell have the benchmarks up a few weeks early. It won't hurt sales much (what sales? they're already dumping their CPUs), and may give AMD a financial injection aswell as take some wind out of Intel's sails.
AMD isn't doing very well financially.
Releasing good benchmarks will make investors happy.
Not releasing benchmarks, or poor benchmarks makes investors pull away.
Especially since AMD is already so close to the release of the CPU, I think there's much more to say for releasing benchmarks then against them.
Benchmarks will be all over the net anyway as soon as the CPUs start to reach review sites. Might aswell have the benchmarks up a few weeks early. It won't hurt sales much (what sales? they're already dumping their CPUs), and may give AMD a financial injection aswell as take some wind out of Intel's sails.
You've clearly never worked in IT...
This is how it goes. I am the administrator. I monitor loads, and determine that I can do better by upgrading this or that. If the load warrents the upgrade, I talk to management and show them the data I have, and they determine if my concerns are worth investing in.
This process usually takes months of data mining, and planning. It also will take several conversations with OEMS, and other integrators.By the time the desicion has been made to spend the money, you already know exactly what you want..... And have a very short amount of time to spend the money. Releasing benches 6 months in advance will in no way influence the buying decision of IT departments that are spending money today. They know what they need and have a very short amount of time to get it.
Releasing benchmarks will in no way effect the IT industry..... However it will effect the Consumer industry.......
So why release data that has no benefits, and will screw you in the short term?
I'm IT administrator for a company too. Unfortunately I work with a boss who thinks she knows about computers (mind you, it's an engineering and construction firm where I'm the only IT person).
She says "my family all uses HP laptops, so I swear on them", and she orders a bunch of them and dumps them in my office for me to prepare for clients and employees.
I have no say whatsoever in what she gets. All I can do is improve it.
She says "my family all uses HP laptops, so I swear on them", and she orders a bunch of them and dumps them in my office for me to prepare for clients and employees.
I have no say whatsoever in what she gets. All I can do is improve it.
That sucks. My boss knows he dont know jack about computers. Thank god for it too.
I dont know how long I would last in your boots. Your a better person then me if you can deal with that crap.
well the pay's good and the boss's really nice. I really don't give a damn what she orders. I'm not the one using them. I use my personal laptop at work. lol
I pretty much fire it up for the first time and remove all the crap HP/Compaq pre-installs on them, and it's almost as good as if it wasn't HP's laptop.
It's all good.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=543&Itemid=1
So you want proof of hardware being benched?
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=631&Itemid=40
OCed ES's.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=663&Itemid=1
And bench numbers... they are all here.
Only prob can't show the pics until launch. But that doesn't stop ppl from posting the numbers. BTW try googleing the info. (Saves a lot of people the trouble to take the time to show proof because your too damn lazy to look yourself. Its really not that hard to type something in the search box now is it. Stop crying like damn 2 year olds "omg I want to see OC, I want to see benchmark, this and that" go look yourselfs for god sakes. )
(And don't tell me this is faked BS. WE all seen them in plunty of other sites if you actoully DID do your homework on the info. If not its just showing how lazy you guys are. ) "Notice I'm just being sarcastic here. Don't take it too seriously. lol Have a sense of humor please. "
So you want proof of hardware being benched?
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=631&Itemid=40
OCed ES's.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=663&Itemid=1
And bench numbers... they are all here.
Only prob can't show the pics until launch. But that doesn't stop ppl from posting the numbers. BTW try googleing the info. (Saves a lot of people the trouble to take the time to show proof because your too damn lazy to look yourself. Its really not that hard to type something in the search box now is it. Stop crying like damn 2 year olds "omg I want to see OC, I want to see benchmark, this and that" go look yourselfs for god sakes.
)(And don't tell me this is faked BS. WE all seen them in plunty of other sites if you actoully DID do your homework on the info. If not its just showing how lazy you guys are.
) "Notice I'm just being sarcastic here. Don't take it too seriously. lol Have a sense of humor please. "