Annoying banding issue on some gradients?

L

Laffles

Gawd
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
903
I don't have a clue what causes this, I've had the same problem on my laptop LCD too but gave up trying to fix it, this monitor is brand new and have noticed it here too. the monitor is a LG 22' E2240S-PN LED..

I have taken an actual picture of my screen and lightened it up a good bit so you can see exactly what I'm taking about;

wtfws.jpg


and here is a screenshot... Is the same kind of banding appearing on this screenshot for you guys?:

25259728.jpg


when I move around more the banding changes and it like moves around based on where I am, it happens on doors, walls, tables etc.

What causes this? I'm stumped and annoyed, this is ruining my gaming experience totally and I can't believe this is the second time this weird problem has happened before on 2 different screens?.. It makes me think that there's not enough power going to the PSU or something? I just don't know, I'm not the most technical of guys. but after spending so much on this rig I'm really gutted.

Help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Most (99.999%) of laptop screens are 6 bit panels with no kind of dithering applied. Banding will occur and it would be most obvious with grey scale images (only 64 shades are possible).

The LG monitor you have has a panel of the TN type. It is also 6 bits pr. color, but uses dithering to mimick color shades that it cannot display, so that banding won't occur (in theory).

However, I have tested tested your screenshot on my laptop display (6 bit IDtech IPS) and external monitor (8 bit NEC LCD2490) and with 8 bits per color, the banding is STILL highly visible. They look identical with regards to banding on the 6 bit and 8 bit per color display.

Did you enable any kind of color correction on your graphics card? I.e. adjust red, green, blue balance? That would limit the amount of colors that can be displayed and could affect the amount of banding.

If not, it's just the textures in the game that have been compressed that much in order to save space, by sacrificing the amount of bits per color. Nothing you can do about that.
 
Thanks so much for your informative reply, really appreciate it.

So basically it's bound to happen and happens with everyone?. I'm just being overly obsessive?

for example this:

gradient-h.png


I see no banding at all, but ingame i get this kind of thing:

gradient-h-32col.png

gradient-h-banding-dith.png


so I just don't get why it's happening on everything, like for example :

dxhr2011090321123095.jpg


It just looks awful to me, maybe I'm just being silly.
 
That happens to everyone yes. If you see the first image from Lagom and spot no banding, then it's definitely the game that causes this. What game is it?
Maybe it has some setting somewhere, to select between lower and higher quality textures. Obviously the high quality textures takes more time to process for the CPU and GPU resulting in fewer FPS.

Some people are more annoyed/affected by banding than others, but to be honest it looks like the focus of this game is on FPS and gameplay instead of highly detailed textures :)

EDIT: It's actually light sources and light scattering that causes banding. Perhaps this was just an easy way of doing it without affecting performance too much.
 
So glad you posted that! You've just stopped me from getting ready to send this monitor back, well, i wasn't after your first few post but you know.

also, I'm an idiot who can't google!

xxx
 
Or...scratch that?.. is this normal too?.. :( can you test on your lcd if you have steam?.. ughh

fffffrvow.jpg
 
Yes it is!

Now stop asking and start enjoying your displays for crying out loud!
 
And just a confirmation from me too: Yes that looks the same for me with the excessive banding... kinda surprising that they use those extremely ugly and cheap looking gradients.
 
yeah it really is.

I'm a graphic designer and it's a reason why I'm such a nazi when it comes to really bad gradients or any artefacts at all, it makes me feel dirty and unclean. lol
 
-graphic designer
-6bit TN monitor

get proper equipment man


edit: TN monitor with 1 vga input only

wtf man...
 
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Hey, it's not the tools that make the designer, it's the skills, will an extra port somehow make a better designer?

The monitor is fine for my needs thank you very much.
 
Mokkat said:
wtf man...
Click to expand...

Its more like


  • Be a "graphic designer'
  • Use as your primary tool a device that cannot depict any colour accurately
  • Complain on this forum that you can't trust it
  • Inveigh against a co-worker who uses an appropriate monitor.
 
haha wow. it's very easy to depict colour and calibrate monitors, I work mainly for print and getting the settings right is very easy with a little bit of testing. You don't know what you are talking about dear sir.
 
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Laffles said:
haha wow. it's very easy to depict colour and calibrate monitors, I work mainly for print and getting the settings right is very easy with a little bit of testing. You don't know what you are talking about dear sir.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but a TN still shows color changing the second you lean over a bit to scratch your ass. ;)

As long as you're not doing work on it you should be fine methinks LOL.

XoR said:
banding wise VGA input is much better than DVI
Click to expand...

But usually far worse color accuracy too. I still remember in the early 2000's Tom's Hardware did a comparo and showed that almost all LCD screens had far WORSE color accuracy using VGA.
 
Laffles said:
haha wow. it's very easy to depict colour and calibrate monitors, I work mainly for print and getting the settings right is very easy with a little bit of testing. You don't know what you are talking about dear sir.
Click to expand...

  • 2011
  • LMAO "graphic designer" CAUGHT USING TN!
 
10e said:
Yeah, but a TN still shows color changing the second you lean over a bit to scratch your ass. ;)

As long as you're not doing work on it you should be fine methinks LOL.



But usually far worse color accuracy too. I still remember in the early 2000's Tom's Hardware did a comparo and showed that almost all LCD screens had far WORSE color accuracy using VGA.
Click to expand...



As long as I'm sitting in the sweet spot it is fine. never had issues ever especially for print.

here are some examples, all designed on a TN monitor:

Portfolio-133008-Audio.jpg


63303974.jpg


Portfolio-133008-001.jpg



whoisthisreally, stop trying to troll me, it won't work, I don't know why you keep putting graphic designer in inverted comma's either. What do you do for a living?, Mcdonalds I presume?
 
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nice work there.

Why would a graphic artist not choose to put a decent amount of money into his core tools though?
Which is also used for gaming and such...
I mean, there are monitors in the large segment between 100$ TNs and 1200$ Lacies. A sub-300$ Dell e-ips display, Benq VA-display, etc, would provide a much better experience.

The 'vga input only' puzzles me. It's LG trolling their customers
 
Thanks :), and because I don't need it. I understand there are much better displays, but it doesn't make a difference to me, yes If i move my head slightly up or to the left or right the contrast/colours will change, the same way if I hold a pencil in my left hand my handwriting will be awful... It doesn't change the fact that I can produce the exact same quality of work in every aspect including colour on this monitor as I could on a monitor that is £200 more expensive than this one..

It's like people who are crap at fps games buying expensive rigs thinking that they will be better at gaming somehow.

It's the work you produce not the tools that you use :) , along with the fact that over the years I have developed a very good eye for colour matching and know every colour profile like the back of my hand.
 
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Doesn't the typical top vs. bottom uneveness of colors of TN panels affect your work? I can't even browse the web on a TN monitor without being annoyed by it, can't imagine what doing a color critical work would be like...
 
This monitor doesn't have that issue, I know it's a tn monitor, but it's actually quite a good one, I obviously did my research before buying it and though I realise the members of this forum might sneer at such a peasant of a monitor, it's not really that bad(as long as I'm sitting directly in front of it which I always am) :)

Just thought I'd say that I love how whoisthisreally has shut his face after I've posted colour matched print from a tn monitor. :rolleyes: :p
 
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tk-don said:
However, I have tested tested your screenshot on my laptop display (6 bit IDtech IPS) and external monitor (8 bit NEC LCD2490) and with 8 bits per color, the banding is STILL highly visible. They look identical with regards to banding on the 6 bit and 8 bit per color display.
Click to expand...

Wait, you did what? You realize that the pictures were taken with a camera so the banding will show up no matter what monitor you are using.

Laffles said:
As long as I'm sitting in the sweet spot it is fine. never had issues ever especially for print.

here are some examples, all designed on a TN monitor:

Portfolio-133008-Audio.jpg


63303974.jpg


Portfolio-133008-001.jpg



whoisthisreally, stop trying to troll me, it won't work, I don't know why you keep putting graphic designer in inverted comma's either. What do you do for a living?, Mcdonalds I presume?
Click to expand...

Nice job. I'm not a graphic designer or anything but I don't think color accuracy is too critical for this type of work. Even if the colors are a little bit off it'll still look great since the designer is the only one who know what the colors should be.

On the other hand, if you are doing photographs then color accuracy is important because everyone has a reference.
 
Laffles said:
Just thought I'd say that I love how whoisthisreally has shut his face after I've posted colour matched print from a tn monitor. :rolleyes: :p
Click to expand...

With respect to your provided images, I notice a particular disparity between them. I don't regard them as being colour matched.

I've read discussions on photography forums where a person's art is cast into disrepute over their use of a TN monitor. Considering my experience of the technology I would affirm this view unto those making a living using their monitor. There is a complete consensus that TN is unsuitable for even basic graphics work.

I recommend as others have that a proper monitor is essential to serious graphics reproduction.
 
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The difference would be the lighting of a printed version that I've taken a photo of, over an actual RGB image on your screen, of course there will be some slight difference for gods sake ;) it is matched near perfectly.

I don't know why you couldn't have made this post initially instead of saying stuff like : 'LMAO 'GRAPHIC DESIGNER' etc.

Sure it does, you can even see it in the first photo you posted. But hey, if it works for you, great
Click to expand...

if you are referring to 'uneven' colours in the image, it is part of the design as I overlayed a dark fading gradient to the sky, besides how would you even be able to see the unevenness if you don't yourself own a tn monitor? Your logic is flawed ;)

@Evi1d33d - I agree

I'll be honest I've partially succumbed to all of your elitist sneering and am looking at the Dell U2311H in another web page.
 
10e said:
But usually far worse color accuracy too. I still remember in the early 2000's Tom's Hardware did a comparo and showed that almost all LCD screens had far WORSE color accuracy using VGA.
Click to expand...
color accuracy can be corrected with service menu and using 10bit LUTs so real issue with VGA connection is fact that it wasn't designed for LCDs ADC but for CRT guns so obviously there is no way truly sharp picture could be achieved. All LCD I sad using VGA connection have similar artifacts and I can't really stand those...

But still VGA connection is almost banding free even on cheap TNs when changing cards LUT (ofcourse on older cards banding is visible due to 8bit DACs)
 
Laffles said:
if you are referring to 'uneven' colours in the image, it is part of the design as I overlayed a dark fading gradient to the sky, besides how would you even be able to see the unevenness if you don't yourself own a tn monitor? Your logic is flawed ;)
Click to expand...
Nah, I was referring to the very first photo in this thread. All TN panels have a gradient in image from top to bottom with top being darker and bottom washed out. I do own a TN monitor as well, unfortunetaly :D In order to see same colors on different parts of the screen you have to keep moving your head up and down, seems to me it would be quite annoying if I was doing some color critical work.
 
it's just the shadows of the wall. If I open a solid white or grey 1980x1080 image and full screen it I see no gradient..

If I dip my head down and look up, or left etc, I see a slight one. like I've said previously, if I sit like a normal person should when using his computer, there isn't really an issue for me, if I suffered from cerebral palsy or was Steven Hawking I would have taken the bad viewing angles into account :)
 
Laffles said:
it's just the shadows of the wall. If I open a solid white or grey 1980x1080 image and full screen it I see no gradient..

If I dip my head down and look up, or left etc, I see a slight one. like I've said previously, if I sit like a normal person should when using his computer, there isn't really an issue for me, if I suffered from cerebral palsy or was Steven Hawking I would have taken the bad viewing angles into account :)
Click to expand...

Wait, you did what? You realize that the pictures were taken with a camera so the banding will show up no matter what monitor you are using.
Click to expand...

The second is a screenshot
 
Well guys, as stubborn as I was being before I took your advice and today got a U2412M...

it is much, much better and I'm glad I got it.
 
good choice, excellent quality is too cheap to pass on these days :)

I received a new Benq EW2430 today - it isnt the quickest, but the picture on it is brilliant - and thats a relatively cheap monitor too :)



edit: but - Deus Ex, does it work properly now? :p
 
Those gradients you see in games don't have anything to do with the monitor. It's probably the video card compressing the textures to fit their VRAM, or the source has banding to start.

It's great you got that Dell though!
 
Mokkat said:
good choice, excellent quality is too cheap to pass on these days :)

I received a new Benq EW2430 today - it isnt the quickest, but the picture on it is brilliant - and thats a relatively cheap monitor too :)



edit: but - Deus Ex, does it work properly now? :p
Click to expand...

nice man :) and the banding is still there lol, as chaps said and tk-don linked a thread on the Edios forums earlier, it's an issue with the game itself.

certainly looks better on this monitor now though :cool:
 
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