Annual Upgrade Inspiration

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Markyip1

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
1,257
Hello folks,

It's about that time a year again where I ponder what new heights I want to take my desktop rig. Aside from new video cards last year, the system hasn't been torn down and rebuilt in several years. Even my water-cooling system has been running maintenace free for about a year and half. I have a new motherboard on the way (current one is RMA'd due to south-bridge issue) and I figure since I have to tear down for the new motherboard, it's the perfect time to upgrade.

The current rig is in my sig, and here's what I'm thinking:

- New case (tired of the Cosmos S... want to go back to something with more classic lines.)
- An SSD (at least 256GB worth, if not two of them for 512GB total.)
- Maybe a new six-core processor.

For the case I'm looking at a Corsair 800D, but assuming I want to keep this case around for at least three years (basically my average case life-span, dating back to a TJ-09 from 2005,) there are a couple of things that concern me: First, no USB3 or e-sata on the front panel. Second, no 2.5 inch drive bays for SSDs. Third, the hot-swappable bay (which is a great feature) is only SATA-II. Anyone have any recommendations for an 800D-like case with newer guts? Maybe a Lian-Li or a Silverstone? (The TJ-11 looks great, but not at $600+.) The one required feature is support for mountain an internal 3x1 120mm radiator without modification (preferably across the top.)

For the SSD I'm looking at a Corsair C300, although I'll wait a to see if the C400s really begin to pop-up next week. On my current setup, I have about 160GB of program files installed (including Windows,) so a 256GB is a must. I also have this fantasy of being able to load my image catalog instantly in Lightroom, so I'm thinking of doubling up the SSDs to bring me to 512GB. Price per gigabyte is still not where I want it, but at least it's now under a grand for 500+ GB.

For the hex-core CPU, well, I'm not sure about this one... Given my usage: very little gaming these days, but a lot of image management and editing, software development, and a great deal of VM use, would I benefit from upgrading to a 970 or a 990X? Never had an extreme chip before -- typically I think they're ridiculous and I'm against them, but hey, the Gulftowns may be the exception here, right?

Anyway, the above is just what I'm thinking about now... As I state in the title, this is an inspiration thread, so any upgrade ideas are welcome :) As is typical with my spending habits surrounding my PC hobby, I'm not too concerned about the price tag, but I don't go too nuts -- usually I'm firmly in the upper high-end without going into too many extremes. I never build a new system from scratch, but can typically afford to do some hefty upgrading each year.

If I do all three (the case, CPU, and SSDs) it's a big upgrade -- but since I haven't really done a big upgrade in a couple of years, a total around $2k won't be the end of the world. If I limit the upgrade possibilities to those mentioned in my opening post, I may not do all three, or I may downgrade to one SSD or do the non-extreme Gulftown... still not sure.
 
First and foremost: Welcome back to the General Hardware subforum! We haven't seen you around here in a while.

Anyway man, the only cases that I can think of (and find with Newegg's search tools) that has USB 3.0 and a relatively clean look are actually other Corsair cases:
$165 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$220 - Corsair Obsidian Series 650D ATX Case

Both the above cases have caddies for 2.5" drives and a single USB 3.0 port. Unfortunately neighther have a hot-swap bay.

SSD wise, you might want to take a look at the Inte 510 series SSDs as well. But the Crucial C300 and C400 SSDs are good choices so far. Yeah SSDs have dropped in price and increase in performance over the past year and a half or so.

CPU wise, IMO, you would notice a difference with the Core i7 970 (I recommend this over the 990X) but I'm not 100% sure it'll be a cost-effective upgrade. For the same cost as that Core i7 970, you can get the Core i7 2600K and a somewhat high-end MSI or Asus P67 motherboard. The problem with that is that you would be limited to 16GB of RAM rather than the 24GB of RAM with the X58 route.
 
Alot of the higher end Lian Li's have usb 3.0 as well (my last 3 have). As for the hot swap bays. I am not quite clear on if the OP is looking for another case with them but in SATA 6gbps. If that is the case I ahve not seen any case with them at all.
 
Any case with a SATA 3 Gb/s hot-swap bay can also handle SATA 6 Gb/s.
Corsair mentions SATA 3 Gb/s only because it's a 2 years old case, back before SATA 6 Gb/s even existed.

You should probably look at much more recent case designs anyway, they're more likely to have front USB 3.0, dual SSD support and other niceties.
Also, if you find a real great case that you like but lacks hot-swap bays, you can maybe install a hot-swap tray or two.
 
Danny Bui said:
First and foremost: Welcome back to the General Hardware subforum! We haven't seen you around here in a while.

Anyway man, the only cases that I can think of (and find with Newegg's search tools) that has USB 3.0 and a relatively clean look are actually other Corsair cases:
$165 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$220 - Corsair Obsidian Series 650D ATX Case

Both the above cases have caddies for 2.5" drives and a single USB 3.0 port. Unfortunately neighther have a hot-swap bay.

SSD wise, you might want to take a look at the Inte 510 series SSDs as well. But the Crucial C300 and C400 SSDs are good choices so far. Yeah SSDs have dropped in price and increase in performance over the past year and a half or so.

CPU wise, IMO, you would notice a difference with the Core i7 970 (I recommend this over the 990X) but I'm not 100% sure it'll be a cost-effective upgrade. For the same cost as that Core i7 970, you can get the Core i7 2600K and a somewhat high-end MSI or Asus P67 motherboard. The problem with that is that you would be limited to 16GB of RAM rather than the 24GB of RAM with the X58 route.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome back :) I'm going to do a deep-dive on cases today. I see Newegg is doing a combo-deal with some Gulftowns and the Lian Li V2220. I have a friend with a previous gen model, the V2100, and I can attest it's a gorgeous case. My Cosmos S is in pristine condition, so selling that would lower the cost of a case upgrade. The Cosmos S has served me well, better than the TJ-09 in fact, but I miss the clean lines and the brushed aluminum of higher-end offerings.

The 970 is under $600, which is compelling, but I've heard it's a poor overclocker, especially compared the extreme chips. If that's not true, I'll gravitate towards that over a more expensive option. It may be worthwhile to pick up the 970 over a second SSD. For Lightroom, all I really need to do to get snappy performance is to keep the catalog on the SSD, and I think that would fit with program files on a single 256 GB drive for now. The master files can reside on my RAID array. The question is whether a single 256GB drive can hold me over until prices really approach $1 per GB... not sure if that's going to come around so quickly, especially after the disruptions to NAND manufacturing in Japan.

I have no interest in a SandyBridge / P67 setup right now. I'm a big fan of triple channel RAM and I need the extra PCI-E lanes X58 provides, especially if I'll be adding a SATA-6 or USB3 add in card in the near future (in case EVGA ships me the same model X58 Classified, which I'm expecting.) Next year perhaps I'll take a look at LGA-2011.
 
Well I've spent a good part of the day pondering options and doing research. Right now I know I'm getting a new case and an SSD. Here's where I'm at:

I've narrowed down to three cases:

  • Silverstone TJ-11
  • Lian-Li V2120
  • Corsair 800D
Silverstone TJ-11: I like the TJ-07 inspired design, but I'm not sure I like the rotated MB tray. Seems to have gotten very mixed reviews overall. Regardless, I'll eliminate the TJ-11 from consideration simply due to its asinine price tag.

Lian-Li V2120: I've no doubt this is the highest quality case outside the Silverstone. I love the looks and the material, but have concerns about the interior design. Wire management looks minimal, but more importantly, it doesn't look like it will be easy to top-mount a 320 rad without modification as the fan cut-outs don't seem to be spaced well. Furthermore, there's no indication that the case ships with shrouds to replace the cut-outs. I don't want the radiator or its fans exposed directly, and I'm not interested in having to buy accessories to support the radiator mounting given the case's price tag. I do like the size and the expandability, even though I have no intention of ever buying an SR-2 mobo or anything near its size.

Corsair 800D: Master Noran is right. Corsair has USB3 and SATA-6 upgrades for the 800D, and it does look like you can mount 2.5 inch drives in the hot-swap bay. I just wish the build was aluminum and that it wasn't so heavy, but with the best design, great wire-management, and a decent price tag, it looks like the Corsair is the winner!

Any other thoughts, confirmations, or qualifications to my case research would be highly appreciated.

For the SSD:

This seems rather simple. I'll get a C300 or a C400 if they're out soon and the price is right. Looking to get at least 1 256GB drive, but may get a second if budget permits.

For the Gulftown:

Still not sure about this one... From what I've read it seems there is a lot of "cherry picking" going on in the Gulftown range. Many 970s seem to have limited OC headroom, while people are bringing the 990xs to over 5ghz on air. Never had an extreme chip, so I may get a 990x just for fun. If I do that, I may skip out on LGA-2011 and wait for Ivy Bridge or Haswell... Thoughts are appreciated.

Other Stuff:

If I upgrade to two SSDs or to a Gulftown, I may swap out my HX1000 power-supply for an AX1200 watt unit. Even though my HX1000 is enough for my system and should continue to be for the upgrades, I like the idea of the AX1200's single-rail design given how many peripherals are connected... With an OC'd 920, two GTX-460s, a PCI-sound card, two Blu-Ray drives, four hard disks, and a custom WC system with 10 fans total in the system, I have to be careful how I split amongst the two rails in the HX1000. The AX1200 I imagine will make upgrades at least easier to plan.

I'm also looking at upgrading the tubing in my WC loop, which is now approaching 5 years old. I may swap out the Masterkleer 7/16 id tubing for some Primochill 1/2 id tubing and I may invest in those Koolance Quick-Disconnect fittings. My res should still be enough to take a Gulftown past 5ghz, should I get a good 990x.

Lastly, later on I may bump up my RAM to 24GB, now that pricing for 4GB DIMMS is so reasonable, but we'll see.
 
Markyip1 said:
Any other thoughts, confirmations, or qualifications to my case research would be highly appreciated.
Click to expand...
You've provided a well reasoned argument for the Corsair 800D. I say go for it. It really is a nice case.

Markyip1 said:
For the Gulftown:

Still not sure about this one... From what I've read it seems there is a lot of "cherry picking" going on in the Gulftown range. Many 970s seem to have limited OC headroom, while people are bringing the 990xs to over 5ghz on air. Never had an extreme chip, so I may get a 990x just for fun. If I do that, I may skip out on LGA-2011 and wait for Ivy Bridge or Haswell... Thoughts are appreciated.
Click to expand...
How far of a limited OC headroom are we talking about? Lower or higher than your current i7 920?

Markyip1 said:
If I upgrade to two SSDs or to a Gulftown, I may swap out my HX1000 power-supply for an AX1200 watt unit. Even though my HX1000 is enough for my system and should continue to be for the upgrades, I like the idea of the AX1200's single-rail design given how many peripherals are connected... With an OC'd 920, two GTX-460s, a PCI-sound card, two Blu-Ray drives, four hard disks, and a custom WC system with 10 fans total in the system, I have to be careful how I split amongst the two rails in the HX1000. The AX1200 I imagine will make upgrades at least easier to plan.
Click to expand...
But is that ease of planning upgrades really worth shelling out $270 for you?

Markyip1 said:
Lastly, later on I may bump up my RAM to 24GB, now that pricing for 4GB DIMMS is so reasonable, but we'll see.
Click to expand...

I say go for it. RAM prices are pretty as low as they're gonna get. They've been steady the past 2-3 months or so.
 
Danny Bui said:
How far of a limited OC headroom are we talking about? Lower or higher than your current i7 920?
Click to expand...

From what I've read, it looks like many 970s have less headroom than my current 920, which can do 4.2ghz without much sweat and can stretch up to 4.5ghz for a benchmark run (all under water.) That's a good 1.6ghz+ OC. Unfortunately there isn't too much data on the 970. I can understand why: until recently, the 970 was $900, and I imagine that most hard-core folk who could spring for that pricey a chip would just spring for the Extreme Edition. Still, from what I've seen, it looks like average max OC is the same 4.2-4.5ghz, which translates to ultimately less headroom considering the stock 3.2ghz clock. Not great, considering the die shrink and the numbers people post from the 980x and 990x.

To me, getting into the 5ghz range without exotic cooling would be just as exciting as 6-cores. With some of the VM work I do these days, I certainly could put 5ghz across 6 cores to use.

As for the AX1200, selling the HX1000 would get the upgrade price under $100, but I suppose I could keep it around. I can swap it out for the RAM upgrade instead. Any good RAM recommendations? I suppose with an unlocked multiplier RAM speed isn't that big a deal, but I'd like to keep to what I have now (1600mhz.) Also I can't remember... do CAS timings play any significant role with Bloomfield/Gulftown setups? i.e. would there be any downside in downgrading from CAS-7 to CAS-9?
 
Markyip1 said:
From what I've read, it looks like many 970s have less headroom than my current 920, which can do 4.2ghz without much sweat and can stretch up to 4.5ghz for a benchmark run (all under water.) That's a good 1.6ghz+ OC. Unfortunately there isn't too much data on the 970. I can understand why: until recently, the 970 was $900, and I imagine that most hard-core folk who could spring for that pricey a chip would just spring for the Extreme Edition. Still, from what I've seen, it looks like average max OC is the same 4.2-4.5ghz, which translates to ultimately less headroom considering the stock 3.2ghz clock. Not great, considering the die shrink and the numbers people post from the 980x and 990x.

To me, getting into the 5ghz range without exotic cooling would be just as exciting as 6-cores. With some of the VM work I do these days, I certainly could put 5ghz across 6 cores to use.
Click to expand...
Personally I wouldn't go for the Extreme Edition because you're basically paying an extra $400 over the i7 970 for about 500Mhz to 900Mhz of overclock headroom. Not worth it IMO. Then again the work you're doing might really need that extra bit of clock speed.
Markyip1 said:
As for the AX1200, selling the HX1000 would get the upgrade price under $100, but I suppose I could keep it around. I can swap it out for the RAM upgrade instead. Any good RAM recommendations? I suppose with an unlocked multiplier RAM speed isn't that big a deal, but I'd like to keep to what I have now (1600mhz.) Also I can't remember... do CAS timings play any significant role with Bloomfield/Gulftown setups? i.e. would there be any downside in downgrading from CAS-7 to CAS-9?
Click to expand...

I recommend this RAM set:
$100 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9S-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM
There's a promo code (EMCKGJE69) that drops that RAM set to $75 but it ends tomorrow.

AFAIK, no downside to downgrading from CAS7 to CAS9.
 
Danny Bui said:
I recommend this RAM set:
$100 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9S-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM
There's a promo code (EMCKGJE69) that drops that RAM set to $75 but it ends tomorrow.

AFAIK, no downside to downgrading from CAS7 to CAS9.
Click to expand...

Outstanding... cheapest way I've seen to 24GB, and I've only had great experiences with G.Skill. Verdict is still out on the Processor... I'll decide in the next 24 hours.
 
Alright so the RAM, CPU, and case are ordered. Got the 800D. Got 3 sets of the G.Skill Danny recommended (thank you there,) and I got the Gulftown i7 990x. Hey, why not? :) It'll be fun to tinker with for a year or two, and there really isn't anything else worth doing with my rig at the moment (except for the solid-state drive, which I'll do in a few days -- whenever the C400s are out.)

CPU progression over the last five years: Core 2 Duo E6600 -> Core 2 Quad Q6600 -> a better Core 2 Quad Q6600 -> Core i7 920 -> Core i7 990x Extreme -- ending the X58 party in style :)
 
Have a bare-bones system running with the new processor and 24GB of RAM. All is running very well. It's incredible how cool this chip runs!

Eventually I'm going to run the chip under water, but right now I have it with the stock cooler as I'm waiting for some WC parts to come in. Running at stock speeds with Turbo Boost enabled and Speed Step disabled, all cores are running in the mid-to-high 20s at idle, peaking at around 35c with normal-usage loads. Default vCore seems to be around 1.2v.

Compared to my previous chip, a 920 D0, that's an incredible improvement (especially considering the 990x packs more cores, and that each core is about 1ghz faster.) Never ran my 920 D0 with the stock cooler, but under water and at stock speeds, the 920 would run in the mid-to-low 30s at idle, and peak in the mid 40s under normal usage load. Default vCore was about 1.275. Note that 920 wasn't at a bad overclocker. It could do 4.2ghz at around 1.35v, and the cooling kept everything under 70c when running stress tests in Linx.

Wonder if the difference is all due to the 32nm stepping, or if this just happens to be a promising chip. Looking forward to overclocking soon.
 
Out of curiosity, what are the water cooling parts that you're waiting for?
 
Mainly Koolance quick-disconnects so that the next time I dissemble my computer, it won't take 2 hours. The Extreme Flow versions have G3/8 threads so I'm also getting adapters. I'm also upgrading the tubing itself from 7/16 to 1/2 ID. Still haven't decided if I want to cool the motherboard. Probably not necessary given how the 990x can overclock, but on the 920 D0 the IOH would hit 70c with a 220 bclk and RAM running at 1600mhz.
 
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