Another out of the loop build question.

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legrand

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Messages
79
Well, apparently my motherboard bought the farm while I was away in China for 2 weeks. It won't fully process the bios, it never gets to the point where it should load windows.

As this is an older AMD 939 platform, I see little use trying to replace the motherboard alone just to keep the 4400 x2 CPU running.

I'm looking for advice on what to get (obviously)... so here's the stock questions answered:


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming mostly.


2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Around $500 +/- $150


3) Where do you live?
NY


4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
I will need CPU, RAM and the motherboard.


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
8800 gtx ultra
Thermaltake 680w PS
Li-Lan case
Various HDD's


6) Will you be overclocking?
Not likely


7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
27"


8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP


9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
RAID is a must. I have two setups already. SLI might be nice...


10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
God, I hope so. (Windows XP 32 bit)


Suggestions please?


Thank you.
 
OS is it XP 32 bit or XP 64 bit?

Well Actually Ram is so cheap and if you don't plan to OC then here's what i'd suggest. I'm not keen on what good PSU's are anymore as has been demonstrated in some of my other posts.

We'll leave the checking that up to the PSU police that troll these here forums.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz - $279.99 (Free Shipping)
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 - $139.99 (has $20 MR)
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 - $45.99 (Free Shipping)

Total Cost of Parts = $460.97

If you wanna save a little $ you could step the CPU down to a
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz - $164.99 (Free Shipping)

Parts Total with the CPU swap would be = $350.97

Leaving more than enough room to pick up a new solid PSU that i feel the suggestion is coming on.
Most likely they will recomend
BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550 550W - $79.99 ($20 MR)

Even with the added PSU still coming in under budget by $70.00
 
with a little digging i can only find one PSU that TT made in a 680w Model
Purepower 680W If you could provide the model number for your PSU it would be a big help.
 
I will locate the ps number when I get home, but I don't understand what's wrong with it? I would guess it's about 4 years old by now? I have 8 HDD's, 4 CD/DVD's as well as fans and even a SLI setup at one point. It's never given me a problem.

Is there a new requirement for the Intel CPU's or something that I don't know about? That link: http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/2005/usa/purepower/w049atx12v/w0049atx12v.htm seems to be the correct one.
 
You're going to need an EPS 12v connector if you plan on using that motherboard.
Also, a 4 year old power supply has DEFINITELY decreased in efficiency from it's original 60%. Most current PSUs use an 80+ rating, meaning they are 80%+ efficient, making your PSU outdated. It may work, but how clean is it working?

I'd also go with 1066 RAM instead of 800 for only $3 more.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231226
 
Drakan290 said:
You're going to need an EPS 12v connector if you plan on using that motherboard.
Also, a 4 year old power supply has DEFINITELY decreased in efficiency from it's original 60%. Most current PSUs use an 80+ rating, meaning they are 80%+ efficient, making your PSU outdated. It may work, but how clean is it working?

I'd also go with 1066 RAM instead of 800 for only $3 more.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231226
Click to expand...

Is there any review showing that PSU is 60% efficient, cause I doubt that. Also that 1066 ram is 5-6-6-18, not so good timings. G.Skill has 1066 at 5-5-5-15 for $55. He may not need 1066 though if he buys a recent CPU with high multiplier.

If the OP is near a Microcenter, that's the best place to buy Intel CPUs. q9400 is $179, e7400 is $99.

if you don't need X-fire get the Gigabyte UD3R instead of UD3P.
 
Varmint said:
Is there any review showing that PSU is 60% efficient, cause I doubt that.
Also that 1066 ram is 5-6-6-18, not so good timings. G.Skill has 1066 at 5-5-5-15 for $55. He may not need 1066 though if he buys a recent CPU with high multiplier.
Click to expand...

The link to Thermaltake's website lists it at >60%.

The 1066 with better timings still falls in his budget. Go for it.
 
For comparison's sake here's an AM3 build as well as an AM2+ build, both based on the Phenom II X3 720 BE. These builds of course assume your current PSU is adequate enough.

AM3
GIGABYTE GA-MA790FXT-UD5P - $180
AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz - $145
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 - $116
Total: $441 without shipping

Pros:
  • Uses DDR3
  • Latest AMD socket used
  • More future-proofed than AM2+
Cons:
  • Uses DDR3, more expensive than DDR2
  • More expensive than comparable AM2+

AM2+
BIOSTAR TFORCE TA790GX 128M - $110
AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz - $145
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 - $52
Total: $307 without shipping

Pros:
  • DDR2 is cheaper than DDR3
  • Cheaper Overal
  • Can drop in AM3 processors
Cons:
  • Less future proof
  • Based on last generation, AM2+

For the AM3 build, you could get away with using cheaper RAM. The cheapest on Newegg is $54. Also vice versa with the AM2+, ie use more expensive RAM.

The AM2+ mobo has also been confirmed to allow for unlocking of the 4rth core on the Phenom II X3s. See this thread, but keep in mind they were most likely disabled for a reason.
 
1066 ram is wasted if the OP doesn't plan on overclocking. with a 1333 FSB all he actually needs is ddr2 667 (correct me if i'm wrong)

the ddr2 800 ram i listed has 5-5-5-15 timings and like stated if the OP isn't overclocking getting anything more is wasted money. This ram leaves headroom for a minor overclock if he gets curious.
 
The PS is the one that is listed. the model number is the W0049.

I don't care which brand CPU I go with, I just want the most bang for my buck.

What about this i7 CPU?
 
legrand said:
I will locate the ps number when I get home, but I don't understand what's wrong with it? I would guess it's about 4 years old by now? I have 8 HDD's, 4 CD/DVD's as well as fans and even a SLI setup at one point. It's never given me a problem.
Click to expand...

I recommend getting a new PSU. It's based on an old PSU design (the inclusion of the -5V is a dead giveaway) and it's of pretty low quality. Considering the age, the old design, and no listing whatsoever of the total amperage on the +12V rail, I do not recommend using that Thermaltake PSU at all. So definitely get a new PSU like the Corsair 650TX for $100 or the BFG LS-550 for $80.
 
legrand said:
The PS is the one that is listed. the model number is the W0049.

I don't care which brand CPU I go with, I just want the most bang for my buck.

What about this i7 CPU?
Click to expand...
If you wanted to build an i7 system, you'd have to double your budget.
 
Master Bob said:
If you wanted to build an i7 system, you'd have to double your budget.
Click to expand...

double?!? nah...

He said he needed... CPU, RAM and the motherboard. And he'll most likely need a new PSU... with a budget of $500 + $150, so $650 total?

$230 - i7.920 (if you live near a microcenter)
$110 - 6GB DDR3 1600 F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
$200 - GA-EX58-UD3R
$80 - BFG LS-550
=======
$620 + tax and shipping
 
enginurd said:
double?!? nah...

He said he needed... CPU, RAM and the motherboard. And he'll most likely need a new PSU... with a budget of $500 + $150, so $650 total?

$230 - i7.920 (if you live near a microcenter)
$110 - 6GB DDR3 1600 F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
$200 - GA-EX58-UD3R
$80 - BFG LS-550
=======
$620 + tax and shipping
Click to expand...
lol. you are right, my bad I was thinking a complete build.
 
Still, my question remains, is it worth it? I can creep the budget up a little if need be but is the $200 (roughly) extra worth it or not?
 
legrand said:
Still, my question remains, is it worth it? I can creep the budget up a little if need be but is the $200 (roughly) extra worth it or not?
Click to expand...

For strictly gaming? no. ;) But if you're going to spend $500 on upgrades anyways, you might want to consider the i7 as an option. Its the successor to the Core2 -- totally new architecture design -- so it should last a bit longer than any AM3 or Core2 build. With DDR3 RAM dropping so fast, an i7 build is only around $150 more than a Core2 build, and would definitely be worth it if you do anything that takes advantage of multi-core CPUs (video rendering/editing, number crunching, etc) and/or you want something that will last 3+ yrs.
 
I'd seriously consider going with an i7 versus a C2D. If you can hold off a month or two, you may see prices drop a bit more which will allow for a cheaper build.

There is no real future with a C2D build at this point, in my opinion.
 
A Core2 build (not necessarily a duo) will still save you money and will certainly last quite a while (especially if you go with a Core2Quad). Though, I don't think I'd spend $500 on a C2Q build... maybe $360 for: Q6600, P43 board, and 4GB of DDR2. Core2 won't reach EOL until later this year, so there will still be quads you could upgrade to if you get a C2D now. If buying a C2D now, I'd spend $260: E7200/7300/7400 for $99, P43 board for $100-$120, and 4GB of DDR2 for $40.
 
This is what I'm thinking of getting:

AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
GIGABYTE GA-MA790FXT-UD5P AM3 DDR3 AMD 790FX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128377
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227297

$523 or 493 after rebates.

I don't have a Microcenter anywhere near me or I might consider the i7....seems like it would be an extra 100+ for roughly the same performance?

Yes, No, Maybe?

Also, what am I losing by sticking with Windows XP 32? Anything important? (I have a laptop with Vista.... so I know what it looks like, I'm asking about speed/performance/etc... I might be losing out on).
 
Phemon 2 940 is AM2+ and will not work in a AM3 motherboard.

I would suggest getting a

GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3 or GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4
Phenom 2 x3 720 BE
G.Skill 2 x 2GB DDR2 800
Xigmatech Red Scorpion

$300 or $340 from newegg before S&H
 
Thanks... Looks like I need to research more. I'm getting a headache from trying to figure out all the new names and codes etc... I've been away far too long...
 
legrand said:
... I don't have a Microcenter anywhere near me or I might consider the i7....seems like it would be an extra 100+ for roughly the same performance?
...
Also, what am I losing by sticking with Windows XP 32?
Click to expand...

Gaming is the only task in which those two CPUs would give you roughly the same performance. Everything else, the i7 wins... by a lot. Phenom2 performs on par with Core2.

With XP 32-bit, you lose access to 0.5-1GB out of the 4GB of RAM you plan on buying. XP 32-bit will only allow you to access 3-3.5GB of system RAM, depending on your other parts. If you have a vidcard with 1GB of VRAM, you'll only be able to address 3GB of your system RAM.
 
Coolit Domino, Coolermaster V8, Xigmateck Dark Knight... Are my personal favorites.
 
Well.... I got all the components and assembled them. I then realized the motherboard was crossfire and not SLI.... oh well...
Anyway, I am having severe problems with the build now. I bought a new SATA HDD to install Windows on as well.

First windows install attempt resulted in BSOD before even getting completely through the setup process.

Second attempt was successful, however after I installed the drivers from the motherboard disk, it seemed like the USB ports had stopped working (I did not check them all).

Third attempt at installing windows went OK, however, after now checking them all, I noticed that most of the USB ports on the rear of the motherboard were not functioning. The board has 8 and only 2 worked. I left the mouse and KB connected to these and went about installing some software, a couple games and apps. I then thought I could maybe just plug in a USB hub and daisy chain off that. When doing this the system locked up so hard that I had to do a hard reboot.

After the hard reboot, I received a "boot disk failure" message in the post. I tried everything, changing locations of this sata drive, changing cables, changing power connectors... nothing worked (I will note that when the system locked up, the HDD was making some soft, strange clicking noises which I am too familar with from the days of the IBM deathstar drives). I went into the bios and saw that the drive was not being detected. There was just a blank space where the drive info should be. Moving the HDD to a different port just moved the blank space.

I took an old SATA drive and hooked it up to the motherboard and was able to install windows for the fourth time on this old drive. I hooked up the new *bad?* drive and was unable to see it, but I also hooked up another SATA drive, that I know is ok, and didn't see that in Windows either. At that point I went to sleep.

So.... Questions:
1) Brand New 640 Gb Western digital drive is dead? Can I check this some other way?
2) WTH is up with the USB ports?
 
1 and 2 sounds like they have the same cause: A defective mobo.

But to test the hard drive:
Download the CD image of Hitachi Drive Fitness Test, burn the ISO file to a CD, and then boot from it, just like you would do with the XP/Vista install CD. Test the hard drive and see if any problems are found. DFT will run on most manufacturers' hard drives. Alternatively, you can use Seagate's SeaTools for DOS to test a Seagate or Maxtor drive. For a Western Digital drive, you could use Data Lifeguard Tools for DOS to test a Western Digital drive.

Hook up the new 640GB to another system and run the tests there.

And just for the hell of it:
Download Memtest+ v2.10 or whatever the latest version is, unzip it, burn the ISO file to a CD, and then boot from it, just like you would do with the XP/Vista install CD. Let Memtest+ run for at least three hours on each stick of RAM separately as well as test the RAM all together. Go for a full 24 hours if you want to be completely sure that the RAM is not a problem. If you start seeing errors, than your RAM is defective or you have incorrect settings for the RAM.

But it really does sound like defective mobo to me.
 
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