Any ghosting in game with Dell 2405 TFT ?

People are saying it may actually be 8ms! I haven't got mine yet, but if you check the other threads no one has had any ghosting issues from what I've seen. Sounds like it's great for gaming as long as you have the horse power to push the high resolution.
 
why on dell france it's a 16 ms panel and on us dell is a 12 ms ?

are threre different possible panel on the 24" dell tft ?? :(

i dont want to buy this tft if panel can be differente :(
 
zerong said:
why on dell france it's a 16 ms panel and on us dell is a 12 ms ?
Click to expand...

does the French know anything worth knowing? :confused:

:D
 
No ghosting that I could see.
I tried the following games on it so far:
PC: Half Life 2, Star Wars Republic Commando and Far Cry
XBox: Brothers in Arms, Fight Night 2004, Conker demo and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory demo.

Most of the games were beautiful, but BIA and Fight Night 2004, looked pretty bad. Tons of aliasing/jaggies and the muddy textures in BIA really stood out unfortunately.
 
The Dell US webpage lists the response time as 16 ms typical black to black and 12 ms typical grey to grey. The 8 ms number seems to come from speculation that the panel is made by Samsung and that Samsung has a panel with essentially identical specs that lists 8 ms as the response time. Specs are often spun by adjusting the test method, unless regulations are in place specifiying the test method. Bottom line is all the eyewitness accounts I have seen so far say "no ghosting". :D
 
I think that the response time is also a function of the electronics used in conjunction with the panel. So if Dell says 12 - 16ms then that's probably what it is. The 8ms response time is probably a maximum theoretical time. For example, it's widely believed that the 2005FPW uses the same panel as the 20" Apple Cinema Display. I'm not sure if that's the exact same but it is similar. Yet the cinema display is slower than the Dell, possibly because Dell has tweaked how the electronics drive the panel (though it could have to do with testing methods as well).
 
I've got mine and I will say that I do see some ghosting. I'm coming from a Benq FP791. That monitor is supposedly 16ms but in my tests last night, I see less ghosting on that then this new dell. I don't know how else to describe it. I was playing EQ2 and thought I noticed some more ghosting than I was used to, so I did a few tests. Basically I was playing with a screen with a black background and white text (and also Yellow) and dragging it around the screen. The Benq seems to handle it better and leave less ghosting. For instance, when I was dragging a window arond with the text "Everquest II", on the Benq the "II" part stayed pretty discernible. I could see the space between the "II" as I dragged the window around. On the Dell, the "II" part became a more blurry and it was harder to see the space...

Not the most scientific analysis... and i'm not sure what everyone else was comparing theirs to... but as far as the 2405fpw monitor compared to my benq fp791, in my eyes, the benq still wins.
 
I see absolutely no ghosting. THis coming from someone who has seen a lot of ghosting on a lot of different panels. It's pretty amazing for a screen this big. It's awesome.
 
Those of you who aren't seeing any ghosting: What resolution are you testing at?
 
I'm hoping I dont see any ghosting. I currently have a dell 1702FP (almost 3 years old) and it is a 25ms panel and has a good ammount of ghosting (using dvi). Hopefully there will be a drastic difference between the 2405 and the 1702.
 
bchomp said:
Those of you who aren't seeing any ghosting: What resolution are you testing at?
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1920 x 1200 DVI also. I see no Ghosting at all. I do see a certain amout of motion blur when playing fast action game but that does not relate to the monitor,

So far this is a fine piece of hardware for me
 
zerong said:
why on dell france it's a 16 ms panel and on us dell is a 12 ms ?

are threre different possible panel on the 24" dell tft ?? :(

i dont want to buy this tft if panel can be differente :(
Click to expand...

Dell figured the first sign of an invasion you'd just drop it and run anyway. No use on wasting a good flat panel.
:D
 
vmaddogv said:
I'm hoping I dont see any ghosting. I currently have a dell 1702FP (almost 3 years old) and it is a 25ms panel and has a good ammount of ghosting (using dvi). Hopefully there will be a drastic difference between the 2405 and the 1702.
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if you're upgrading from the 1702FP to the 2405 you are in for quite a shock lol - I have both of those monitors and the 1702 is about the size of a postage stamp compared to the 2405. :p

Oh, and there really is no ghosting I have noticed. dark toned web sites scroll without the blurring both the 1702 and 1901 gave me.
 
tobygg said:
I've got mine and I will say that I do see some ghosting. I'm coming from a Benq FP791. That monitor is supposedly 16ms but in my tests last night, I see less ghosting on that then this new dell. I don't know how else to describe it. I was playing EQ2 and thought I noticed some more ghosting than I was used to, so I did a few tests. Basically I was playing with a screen with a black background and white text (and also Yellow) and dragging it around the screen. The Benq seems to handle it better and leave less ghosting. For instance, when I was dragging a window arond with the text "Everquest II", on the Benq the "II" part stayed pretty discernible. I could see the space between the "II" as I dragged the window around. On the Dell, the "II" part became a more blurry and it was harder to see the space...

Not the most scientific analysis... and i'm not sure what everyone else was comparing theirs to... but as far as the 2405fpw monitor compared to my benq fp791, in my eyes, the benq still wins.
Click to expand...

I wanted to post a follow up to my information here...

After reading a lot more posts in this forum, specifically this one: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=775081&highlight=ghosting+motion+blur

I would like to say that no, I don't see any "ghosting" as it seems to be being defined by the people here. What I am seeing is more motion blur. And I "think" I am seeing more motion blur on the dell than I do on my Benq... but after doing even more testing, it's not by much, if at all. In comparing 1280x1024 on both the dell and the benq, the motion blur is about the same I would say. When running in 1920x1200, I think the problem is my eyes are seeing even more blur at one than I could possibly see on the benq, so my mind perceived that as the dell has more motion blur than the benq. At 1280x1024 1:1 on the 2405FPW, so the image size was the same (relatively, the dot pitch is slightly larger on the dell), I can't say I noticed any more or less motion blur compared to the benq.

I just wanted to follow up to my post on my more recent tests and maybe this will be something that others can keep in mind.

Hope that helps. Personally, "ghosting" to me always meant the same as motion blur. Whether I can see an entire image of the object or just a motion blur effect, to me that was 'ghosting'... but I will change my terminology for the sake of consistency!
 
I believe motion blur is not in hardware, it's a software effect in games, movies etc to create the effect of fast movement (sometimes it's really overdone, like in KOTOR2). In other words, ghosting and motion are completely different things and while they may appear to be similar on the screen, they are fundamentally different. Obviously, to be objective in trying to detect ghosting, you need to use a program which specifically does not introduce motion blur. I'd agree with poster above about moving window and seeing whether it leaves a trail but then, Windows might have motion blur effects as well :D
 
TehQuick said:
I believe motion blur is not in hardware, it's a software effect in games, movies etc to create the effect of fast movement (sometimes it's really overdone, like in KOTOR2). In other words, ghosting and motion are completely different things and while they may appear to be similar on the screen, they are fundamentally different. Obviously, to be objective in trying to detect ghosting, you need to use a program which specifically does not introduce motion blur. I'd agree with poster above about moving window and seeing whether it leaves a trail but then, Windows might have motion blur effects as well :D
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If you read what I said way above also... I did do that. I see the motion blur in just dragging windows around.

That's why I'm pretty sure it's hardware related also. Yes, I understand some games have it (especially the GTA games, god I hate that and have to turn that off in game... luckily you can)... but this is not the same.

So no, it's not 'ghosting' as i'm not seeing a full image left behind. The refresh is fast... but not fast enough to completely eliminiate motion blur, as from my readings no LCD on the market can.

Adding to the fact, not all people see motion blur the same way it seems. It has to do with your eyes too. One of the big problems with the whole ghosting/motion blur thing is its individual perception, not a yes or no type of thing.

Take a look at this:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide_4.html

This is basically what I'm talking about. That creates more of a 'blur' effect to me. The top I would call more like 'ghosting' and the bottom a 'blur'. But what people here refer to ghosting is lets say you had that box on the screen and then you moved it real fast, you would actually see the box in 2 places at once at one specific time... as the pixels in the old image faded out. That's not the ghosting I was referring to... The ghosting I was referring to is more of a blur.

Now that I've cleared that up!
 
So people agree that the 2405 still blurs but doesn't ghost. That disappoints me, I always took the ghosting comment was related to bluring that i see on lots of lcd's, to me that's more annoying than ghosting, in fast games you loose the ability to see fine texture and if you have quick eyes it would annoy the hell out of you I guess. I used my brothers 16ms lg 17inch, it didn't ghost as such, but a couple of games motioned blurred a lot which i didn't like. At all, so I guess the grey-to-grey improvement doesn't remove that bluring effect, is this right to asume?
 
mozmo said:
So people agree that the 2405 still blurs but doesn't ghost. That disappoints me, I always took the ghosting comment was related to bluring that i see on lots of lcd's, to me that's more annoying than ghosting, in fast games you loose the ability to see fine texture and if you have quick eyes it would annoy the hell out of you I guess. I used my brothers 16ms lg 17inch, it didn't ghost as such, but a couple of games motioned blurred a lot which i didn't like. At all, so I guess the grey-to-grey improvement doesn't remove that bluring effect, is this right to asume?
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Like I said above, it doesn't blur or ghost or anything for me, and several other people that I know that received the panel have said the same thing. There is not blur in windows. No ghosting. No anything. I suppose some people are more sensitive to it than others, but most everbody I've talked to sees nothing of the sort. Awesome monitor.
 
Well since dell has a 15 day satisfaction i guess i'll just have to see for myself, if I can detect blurring it will be going right back and I'll stick with my 21inch trinitron.

Any CS players with the monitor, how do maps like dust handle with motion blur, I've found in the past that bright maps with a light sky box tend to blur like hell on lcd's (bad grey-to-grey) I was just wondering if the improved grey to grey specs of the 2405 improve the bluring on dust.
 
TehQuick said:
I believe motion blur is not in hardware, it's a software effect in games, movies etc to create the effect of fast movement (sometimes it's really overdone, like in KOTOR2). In other words, ghosting and motion are completely different things and while they may appear to be similar on the screen, they are fundamentally different. Obviously, to be objective in trying to detect ghosting, you need to use a program which specifically does not introduce motion blur. I'd agree with poster above about moving window and seeing whether it leaves a trail but then, Windows might have motion blur effects as well :D
Click to expand...
you have no clue...all LCDs have motion blur when it comes to fast actions. Its due to the currently panels are still not fast enough to handle actions as well as CRTs. Do you see any motion blur at all on a good CRT? Even your 10-year-old RCA TV set handles actions better then the fastest LCD...Motion blur doesnt really bother me with games but watching movies with motion blur is unbearably painful. So for serious movie viewing, I dont use any LCD devices at all. That includes Plasma/LCD TV sets as well since they have motion blur too....LCD tech is not matured yet and maybe it's already dying....
 
jphat007 said:
Like I said above, it doesn't blur or ghost or anything for me, and several other people that I know that received the panel have said the same thing. There is not blur in windows. No ghosting. No anything. I suppose some people are more sensitive to it than others, but most everbody I've talked to sees nothing of the sort. Awesome monitor.
Click to expand...
you probably dont even know what motion blur is....All LCD screens have it and this new Dell is no exception....The only thing Ive seen is a RCA LCD TV. It utilizes Xbrite to eliminate some of it so its not as bad....
 
ImLazzy do you have one of these new dells or have used one to know how good the motion blur is, i want honest opinions from people with senstive eyes, ie you can spot 60hz crt flicker a mile away.

In terms of plasma's and motion blur, they uses phospors so they're far better at motion than lcd's are, they can suffer though from what motion artifacts due to the digital processing they do with halftonning and dithering that lots of plasma's do. But through dvi playing fps's on my plasma is exceptionally smooth and crt like, lcd's just don't have the repsonsiveness that phosphor based display devices do i've found.
 
OK, here is my story - I was trying to convince my superviser to get a couple of this new Dells for our art dep. and shes like you can work on it and make an official proposal. So I spent a whole morning on the phone talking to sales reps at Dell and they had no clue what I was talking abt. Finally they transferred me to a tech support guy who seemed pretty knowledgeable and this is what he said (roughly):" Currently, all LCD panels would have motion blur and ghosting more or less depending on the application and the manufacturer. And Dell is no exception but Dell's large format panels generally perform better in that regard."

So here is the question for all you honest Dell users who can tell the difference between motion blur and ghosting and know where to look: How much do you see?.. esp. motion blur in movies. Thanks!

P.S. I sure can spot 60hz crt flicker a mile away so you can count on me... ;)
 
EricDawg said:
Dell figured the first sign of an invasion you'd just drop it and run anyway. No use on wasting a good flat panel.
:D
Click to expand...

At least my Mom thinks so.
:p
 
There is without question ghosting on Natural Selection, on CS:Source its harder to see.
 
It should also be pointed out that at non-native resolutions the scaling mechanism introduces some motion blur as it does it's calculations (this is above and beyond the the regular fuzzyness introduced by the "zoom" anyway).

Comparing ghosting/motion blur on a scaled image to a native image is not apples-to-apples.
 
Also certain transitions (notably black-white) go faster than certain other transitions (notably gray-gray). If some transitions are under the refresh rate but not others, this could look like objects themselves do not leave ghost trails behind them, but the texturing on them is blurred.
 
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