Apple Cinema Displays for gaming?

S

Serpico

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 8, 2000
Messages
8,425
Hi, I wanted impressions from anyone who owns a newer model ACD and has used it for gaming. I am finally going to put my Sony G400 CRT to rest, so for the past few months I have researched and tested out several LCDs that I would like to get for my new PC in September. One of the uses for the LCD will be for gaming.

So far I have had issues with all of the ones I have looked at. The Samsung 226BW and CW models have backlight bleed and viewing angles that drive me nuts, imo the only plus side is the price, so TN panels are out of the question. Today I test drove a Dell 2007WFP. It was better than the Samsung, although the demo unit I was on still needed a lot of color correction and contrast work. Right afterwards I went to the Apple Store to check on the availability of their iPhone Bluetooth headset (no dice) and it occurred to me that I should consider a cinema display. The desktop looks absolutely gorgeous on them (way better imo than the Dell I had just seen), so my main question is how it compares with other current S-IPS LCDs out there for gaming. I have an ancient 23" ACD (the one with the plastic bezel) that is great for video and desktop work, but there is noticeable ghosting when I fire up something like Quake 3 on that machine. On paper the response time of the current ACD is slightly faster than that of the Dell 2007WFP, so I expect it is way better than the LCD I have now.

Money isn't an issue.

Any input is appreciated, thanks!
 
R0achTheWarHero said:
230WP7NS is a newer and better 23" IPS panel
Click to expand...

You sure about that? I am reading reviews on it that were published months before the last ACD refresh where they upped the specs.

How about 20"? I haven't decided which size I will go, although I am leaning to a smaller display so that I can run games at native res (including Crysis) without requiring a SLI setup to keep things smooth.
 
sli is never needed ever. so that shouldnt be a worry. I hear awesome things about the apples having no input lag from Toasty. very even backlighting as well. only good for native.
 
~El~Jefe~ said:
sli is never needed ever. so that shouldnt be a worry. I hear awesome things about the apples having no input lag from Toasty. very even backlighting as well. only good for native.
Click to expand...

Really? I would start to worry about framerates chugging when running native res on a 23" LCD with FSAA and anistropic filtering enabled, especially with serious games like Crysis coming out. I plan on getting an 8800GTS, really powerful, but I still wonder. And I totally agree on the lack of input lag; that monitor is responsive as hell.

Time to start looking up benchmarks...
 
Haven't heard of any upgrading of apple displays, probably because I don't pay attention to them since they are horribly overpriced. If you got money to blow and they actually did get upgraded then go for it.
 
R0achTheWarHero said:
Haven't heard of any upgrading of apple displays, probably because I don't pay attention to them since they are horribly overpriced. If you got money to blow and they actually did get upgraded then go for it.
Click to expand...

The panels were upgraded last August, followed by a price drop last April. I'm willing to pay the premium since I have yet to test drive a better looking monitor. Again, I'd love to know how games run on this thing from anyone who actually has it. Either that or I'll wait until October to test it out since I'll be getting an iMac with a second 23" ACD anyway. If I like it I'll get another one for my PC, but it would be nice to know before October though. :)
 
Serpico said:
Really? I would start to worry about framerates chugging when running native res on a 23" LCD with FSAA and anistropic filtering enabled, especially with serious games like Crysis coming out. I plan on getting an 8800GTS, really powerful, but I still wonder. And I totally agree on the lack of input lag; that monitor is responsive as hell.

Time to start looking up benchmarks...
Click to expand...

I really cant impress this idea anymore than this:

when crysis and those games come out, within a month, by Christmas-time selling (november), the 8900 and possibly the 9800 (which I believe would change its name!) will debut.

If you bought 2 cards in sli right now, you would gain very little for current games. However, compared to the next generation (which is slated to be at Christmas) you could just get one super clocked version of that and blow away the sli combo you would buy now. sli = waste of heat/electricity/money. 2% of all steam players have sli. and those are gamer gamer types. I could see sli maybe if there were tons of dx10 games out and vista was ironed out and smooth. but there arent any and vista has no service packs.

also, with HDR lighting, and that 1920x1200 on a smaller 23" monitor, you wont be caring about the AA. AF I love but it seems that takes a minor hit. right now, its gaming with AF turned up and HDR on with a very high resolution. goign to take a while before AA is both needed and works smoothly.
 
~El~Jefe~ said:
I really cant impress this idea anymore than this:

when crysis and those games come out, within a month, by Christmas-time selling (november), the 8900 and possibly the 9800 (which I believe would change its name!) will debut.

If you bought 2 cards in sli right now, you would gain very little for current games. However, compared to the next generation (which is slated to be at Christmas) you could just get one super clocked version of that and blow away the sli combo you would buy now. sli = waste of heat/electricity/money. 2% of all steam players have sli. and those are gamer gamer types. I could see sli maybe if there were tons of dx10 games out and vista was ironed out and smooth. but there arent any and vista has no service packs.

also, with HDR lighting, and that 1920x1200 on a smaller 23" monitor, you wont be caring about the AA. AF I love but it seems that takes a minor hit. right now, its gaming with AF turned up and HDR on with a very high resolution. goign to take a while before AA is both needed and works smoothly.
Click to expand...

Yes, SLI is out of the question for me. That said, I looked up some benchmarks and it looks like an 8800GTX will drive games on a 23" monitor at native res just fine. Crazy. Anyway, I'm leaning more and more towards that 23" ACD right now.
 
The educational discount price for the 23" is only $799.

$800 for a 23" IPS panel isn't bad, considering the Planar is $1000 for a 26".

If someone knows of a 23" or larger IPS panel for less than $800, please speak up.
 
If Dell can offer a 30" SIPS panel for $1299, then the 23" ACD is way overpriced for $899. I'd buy the ACD if it were $150 less, but there's no reason to recommend it especially since it only comes with a pathetic 1 year warranty.

If we're going to do a real comparison, add $99 for apple care on each ACD,

$799 with an edu discount becomes $899 and $899 becomes $999,

Dell 30" > Apple 30"
Dell 30" >> Apple 23"
 
Where can you get a Dell 30" for $1299? I only see $1499

Also, keep in mind that the Dell 30" will require SLI/CF upgrades every year just to keep it running at those resolutions...
 
The poster said money wasn't an issue, so why be limited by a 23" ACD?

- No adjustable height stand (+ the price of a good mount or a stand)
- 1 year warranty ( + the price of applecare $99)
- Overpriced to begin with.

The fact you can't adjust these displays heightwise is joke. With how much your paying, the display needs to adjust to you, not you to it.

Buy the 30" Dell when it goes on sale for $1299 as it does every month.

Again, if you're playing games = get a TN panel, you're not going to care about the colors when you're getting fragged.

Get an IPS for color accuracy, but leave the gaming to TN or PVA panels.
 
ZerazaX said:
Also, keep in mind that the Dell 30" will require SLI/CF upgrades every year just to keep it running at those resolutions...
Click to expand...
My non-SLI 8800GTS runs some games at max res with 60fps and any game at 1920x1200. If you insist on using native pixels, run it 1:1 mode with a viewable area of a 23". There goes all your points...
 
hey, good point there! it is so big that the 1:1 lesser resolutions would be quite large.
 
zzz said:
My non-SLI 8800GTS runs some games at max res with 60fps and any game at 1920x1200. If you insist on using native pixels, run it 1:1 mode with a viewable area of a 23". There goes all your points...
Click to expand...

Thats true but I do like playing it at 1:1 with a whole area so you'd still need it.
 
zzz said:
Then get a Dell or HP 30". Way better than a 23".
Click to expand...

Money isn't an issue when it comes to the display. It is an issue when it comes to the videocard required to drive the display and still have games run at a good framerate. I would rather not get a SLI setup, nor would I want to run something that far out of native res on the 30", nor would I want to sacrifice framerate or image quality. This is why I am leaning towards an 8800GTX and a 20" to 23" display, I should have mentioned that before.
 
Syndication said:
Again, if you're playing games = get a TN panel, you're not going to care about the colors when you're getting fragged.

Get an IPS for color accuracy, but leave the gaming to TN or PVA panels.
Click to expand...

I considered TN panels for a long time but I just can't get past the issues with uneven backlight, narrow viewing angles, and color dithering. And it was my understanding that S-IPS had better response time and less input lag than PVA panels. Is this incorrect?
 
Syndication said:
The fact you can't adjust these displays heightwise is joke. With how much your paying, the display needs to adjust to you, not you to it.
Click to expand...

The height is fine for me. I can't adjust the height of my CRT and I am happy with it. Adjusting the tilt angle on the ACDs are also very easy compared to the 226BWs that I have tried. So yeah, those aren't issues for me.
 
Serpico said:
Money isn't an issue when it comes to the display. It is an issue when it comes to the videocard required to drive the display and still have games run at a good framerate. I would rather not get a SLI setup, nor would I want to run something that far out of native res on the 30", nor would I want to sacrifice framerate or image quality. This is why I am leaning towards an 8800GTX and a 20" to 23" display, I should have mentioned that before.
Click to expand...
With the 30", you can game the same as you would on a 23" (by running 1:1 and 1920x1200). If you're like me, you'll largely prefer 1920x1200 full-screen non-native. I have the Dell 30" and think games look great at that res. My 8800GTS 640 gives good frames for all games at that res.

Then of course, the 30" gives 78% more desktop pixels than the 23". I love the 1600 vertical pixels, since you can see so much of each webpage without scrolling.
 
Ever notice any input lag doing that zzz? I was under the impression that 1:1 scaling should introduce some.
 
Destroid said:
Ever notice any input lag doing that zzz?
Click to expand...
Good question. I don't have the means to stopwatch it, but with moving the mouse or typing I don't notice any lag in 1:1 mode. I think I'm very sensitive to input lag, since on a different monitor I immediately noticed it just by moving the mouse, before I even knew about input lag.

I also don't notice any input lag in best-fit-without-stretching mode, for 4:3 games.

I measured the diagonal of 1920x1200 in 1:1 on a 30", and it's 22.3".
 
zzz said:
Good question. I don't have the means to stopwatch it, but with moving the mouse or typing I don't notice any lag in 1:1 mode. I think I'm very sensitive to input lag, since on a different monitor I immediately noticed it just by moving the mouse, before I even knew about input lag.

I also don't notice any input lag in best-fit-without-stretching mode, for 4:3 games.

I measured the diagonal of 1920x1200 in 1:1 on a 30", and it's 22.3".
Click to expand...

This is all great to know. How is ghosting on that monitor?
 
Serpico said:
Hi, I wanted impressions from anyone who owns a newer model ACD and has used it for gaming. I am finally going to put my Sony G400 CRT to rest, so for the past few months I have researched and tested out several LCDs that I would like to get for my new PC in September. One of the uses for the LCD will be for gaming.

So far I have had issues with all of the ones I have looked at. The Samsung 226BW and CW models have backlight bleed and viewing angles that drive me nuts, imo the only plus side is the price, so TN panels are out of the question. Today I test drove a Dell 2007WFP. It was better than the Samsung, although the demo unit I was on still needed a lot of color correction and contrast work. Right afterwards I went to the Apple Store to check on the availability of their iPhone Bluetooth headset (no dice) and it occurred to me that I should consider a cinema display. The desktop looks absolutely gorgeous on them (way better imo than the Dell I had just seen), so my main question is how it compares with other current S-IPS LCDs out there for gaming. I have an ancient 23" ACD (the one with the plastic bezel) that is great for video and desktop work, but there is noticeable ghosting when I fire up something like Quake 3 on that machine. On paper the response time of the current ACD is slightly faster than that of the Dell 2007WFP, so I expect it is way better than the LCD I have now.

Money isn't an issue.

Any input is appreciated, thanks!
Click to expand...

TRY LG Dell or Benq, anything apple is high priced and all about form as opposed to function, Apple is for hippies and feng shue people who are more concerned about their electronics as artwork or decore than performance. Add to that the outrageous prices of anything apple. There are BETTER CHEAPER alternatives especially in the LCD market.
 
Have you looked at monitors by Eizo? Just curious since they're pricey, but I hear good things about them.
 
conghelach said:
TRY LG Dell or Benq, anything apple is high priced and all about form as opposed to function, Apple is for hippies and feng shue people who are more concerned about their electronics as artwork or decore than performance. Add to that the outrageous prices of anything apple. There are BETTER CHEAPER alternatives especially in the LCD market.
Click to expand...

How about actually replying to the OP's question instead of polluting the thread with your bizarre hissy fit? The OP states very clearly "Money isn't an issue" yet you repeatedly cite the cost of Apple monitors as a reason why he shouldn't get them. Fine if money is an issue for you but it isn't for the OP so save your rant for your own thread. If all you can do is make stupid generalizations about the kind of people who you think buy Apple product, stereotypes which even if true, have NOTHING to do with what monitor the OP should buy, then don't post.

Also, "feng shue" is spelled "feng shui" and "decore" is "decor."
 
i use the apple cinema 30" for gaming... pretty good very nice whites and blacks the colors are just amazing... at first i did notice a bit of ghosting coming from a 3ms viewsonic gaming monitor.. but what got me was the niceness of the S-IPS panel.. on how nicer the colors are... now when i game i dont notice any ghosting at all!
 
A couple notes on this thread..

I have the Phillips Brilliance 230W with the 230WP7NS panel. I have had it for more than a year now. It is excelletn, and IMHO still cannot be beat if you are looking for extreme sharpness, solid response times, exceptional color accuracy in a widescreen >22" format.

The 230WP7NS is a second gen S-IPS, sometimes referred to as a AS-IPS panel. It has faster response times than previous S-IPS panels and better brightness. Apple switched to this panel late last year and Phillips no longer sells it. It is made by LG.Phillips. If you want a no-compromise (A)S-IPS panel in anything aproaching $1000 new there are, sadly, no other choices.

You *do* need SLI to run this panel in native res with AA and AF running. I run a quad SLI (7950's) setup with is reasonable, but a dual SLI 8800GTX is really the minimum IMHO for any of the recent shooters.

The reasons this panel is so exceptional is far better viewing angles mean better, more accurate color response across a broad wide-screen frame, and the response times are good enough that little to no ghosting exists for movie playback or 3d shooters. *VA panels crush certain areas of the color spectrum which is readily apparent as soon as you try to calibrate a monitor even by sight with a gretag-macbeth color chart. TN color reproduction is a joke for any photo-editing or even if you want consitistant color in your games with no viewing angle or backlighting artifacts.

Text is sharper on the 23" panels as well, given that the dot pitch is tighter.

So if IPS is so great why aren't there more options? I really dont know. There are several 20" and non-widescreen options in the consumer market, but Apple makes the *only* current selling 23" at the consumer level. There are some options in the $1500+ professional market, but its WAY overkill unless you are using it to make your livign in a color-managed workflow.

I just recently went through all the research tryign to find a decent panel in the 23-24" range for my buddy who does 3d modeling for work, and wants to run Maya on his home PC.

Needless to say he bought an ACD. If I was doing it again, so would I. Its a great panel and quite cheap compared to the other 23" S-IPS options. It has good resposne times, great movie playback, and exceptional color reproduction with extremely sharp text, all in a wide-screen package for less than $1000 after tax.

What's not to like?

JT

PS: as to gaming, we play WoW:BC, GRAW, Obvlivion on these panels.
 
i have to make a comment about the ghosting.. i am putting together a pc for a friend.. and my friend got an Acer 22" value lcd monitor the 2216 model i believe... and the response time for that TN is supposed to be 5ms... what freaked me out.. is that there is MORE ghosting on that monitor than on my apple cinema 30" ! go figure! doesnt make any sense....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top