Parmenides
Supreme [H]ardness
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HTML5 is a very good thing. Let the hypocrite run his mouth. We do want HTML5 to take away from Adobe's proprietary stuff.
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Apple Says Adobe Flash is Closed and Proprietary
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
People are missing the point. Yes flash sucks, yes it's a hog, and yes it's massively insecure. All these things are true, and if you are posting on this forum, you know that. And if you, like me and many here, also work in IT you really fucking hate flash.
But that's not why this is funny, those reasons aren't what this massive pissing contest is about.
Why it's funny is that apple, of all people, is bitching about closed and proprietary, now that is fucking funny, and has fuck all to do with adobes faults.
The reason for the pissing contest is content control. It's not about security, apple has no security. You can't go about creating devices with no security and then complain that you won't run something because it's not secure. They want exclusive iproduct content that they control, and no option to get content outside of that.
But that's not why this is funny, those reasons aren't what this massive pissing contest is about.
Why it's funny is that apple, of all people, is bitching about closed and proprietary, now that is fucking funny, and has fuck all to do with adobes faults.
The reason for the pissing contest is content control. It's not about security, apple has no security. You can't go about creating devices with no security and then complain that you won't run something because it's not secure. They want exclusive iproduct content that they control, and no option to get content outside of that.
Knight_of_BAAWA
Gawd
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Quite so, sd11. It's about the New Boss (Apple) being the same as the Old Boss (IBM). Apple didn't "break out of the box"--it just made a new box to keep people in. The Big Brother of IBM has been replaced by the Big Brother of Steve Jobs.
And that is utter hypocrisy to the point where I can't fathom how Jobs can continue to do what he does with a straight face.
And that is utter hypocrisy to the point where I can't fathom how Jobs can continue to do what he does with a straight face.
If that were true, Mobile Safari wouldn't support HTML5, and Apple wouldn't be pushing it as hard as they are. The HTML5 games that have been developed specifically for the iPhone are a little rough right now, but they work. Videos embedded with the HTML5 video tag work. Audio embedded with the HTML5 audio tag work. JavaScript works (nothing held back there), and you can do a hell of a lot with something as unassuming as JavaScript.
Apple could easily disable all of this functionality, why haven't they? They want to control content while at the same time enabling users to access content they don't control?
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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But here's the thing, how far can you really push HTML 5 on something like an iPhone? It ain't going to be the fastest thing in town and if Apple thought that HTML 5 were a REAL threat to the app store do honestly think they'd be pushing it?
What happens when people say fuck the app store, HTML 5 baby cross platform, works on any device! Are you HONESTLY saying that's were Jobs want's to go with this? Mobile apps that work anywhere without the need of an app store or an iPhone?
Come on. I've got a bridge to sell you then.
Ur_Mom
Fully [H]
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Adobe still hasn't designed a 64-bit Flash, either. I hate Apple as much as the next guy, but I don't think we can all pin this on them. Sure, the remarks are way fucked up (Apple is OPEN!? BULLSHIT!), but Turning down Adobe isn't a bad thing. Maybe they will be forced to make sure Flash can run without the 100% CPU usage, or even in a 64-bit browser. They haven't done anything, really.
Oh yea: Steve Jobs is a douche-canoe (had to get that in there for sake of this thread!)
Oh yea: Steve Jobs is a douche-canoe (had to get that in there for sake of this thread!)
Not that hard. It's slower and less capable than doing it natively. There's no WebGL support, and I don't think I've seen mention of it being supported at a later time. That's going to keep 3D stuff within the confines of the App Store, yeah. The basics do work, however. Apple developed the Canvas technology that allows for them to work (part of the W3C's draft proposition). They could be easily made to not work, if Apple chose, however.
HTML5 isn't a threat to the App Store any more so than Flash is. That's the point. It's not just games, either, but actual semi-rich applications. Google Voice, for instance. Denied on the App Store, but the web app delivers identical functionality as the native app (according to Google). Many native iPhone apps would work just fine as HTML5-enabled web apps.
Apple could issue an update that disabled Google Voice entirely. They haven't. They don't want us using Google Voice, yet at the same time, they allow us to use Google Voice. To me, that doesn't quite add up.
Jobs wants Adobe out of the picture. He also wants to maintain a high level of control over the iPhone/iPad, but that doesn't seem to be the primary motivation behind their stance on Flash on the iPhone/iPad. The theory simply doesn't add up.
So you sell bridges in addition to HP products?
THIS * eleventy billion
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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All I was trying to say is that Jobs has no interest in a rich CROSS PLATFORM HTML 5. Without the app store why buy an iPhone if all the cool apps are written in HTML 5 and work on any phone? The AppStore is a competitive advantage for Apple. But yes on a device like an iPhone HTML 5 sucks. On a real desktop broswer much more can be done. But HTML 5 has the potential to be a threat to Apple as well as Adobe.
And yes, I do sell HP products (and others that I like) but I don't get paid for it. Gotten tons of emails from my YouTube reviews thanking me and asking me questions and saying they bought a tablet because I simply show folks what shit does instead of trying to oversell it. Enthusiastic, sure, but I'd be the last person to try to force something on someone that didn't fit their needs. You may not appreciate it, plenty do!
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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+1.
That's the real motivational answer.
The input device is interpreted by the player and sent to the application. Just have it interpret "touch" as a mouseover and "tap" as a click. The same applies to other hand gestures.
It's the player that handles how flash runs on the device, that's why video playback instantly got video acceleration just by upgrading the video player, without needing to re-publish the original swf. And why PC's get hardware accelleration and macs don't when running the same SWF.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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This would apply to apps that worked this way. I see the same problem on a Tablet PC when using Flash apps that aren't touch compatible. There are quite a few that don't need mouse hover, I find them from time to time and they work fine. Here's one: http://www.cyberiapc.com/flashgames/duckhunt.htm
Appstore = free downloadable games
Yes, it would be a good thing for HTML 5 to take away from Flash, but that isn't today, nor will it be during the lifespan of the iPad or iPhone.
Raptor007
n00b
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Hey internet, here you go... that is a perfect example of irony.
I sort of put up with the closed nature of my iPhone, because at the time I got it, there really was no more powerful phone experience. I might look for an alternative now that other mobile operating systems have caught up, but with jailbreaking I don't really feel as locked-down as the average iPhone user.
When it was announced that the iPad would be App Store only, that was the deal-breaker for me. I probably wasn't going to get one anyway (if I want non-pocket portable, I use my laptop), but the fact that its closed OS can't do anything more than an oversized iPod Touch was the nail in its coffin.
I sort of put up with the closed nature of my iPhone, because at the time I got it, there really was no more powerful phone experience. I might look for an alternative now that other mobile operating systems have caught up, but with jailbreaking I don't really feel as locked-down as the average iPhone user.
When it was announced that the iPad would be App Store only, that was the deal-breaker for me. I probably wasn't going to get one anyway (if I want non-pocket portable, I use my laptop), but the fact that its closed OS can't do anything more than an oversized iPod Touch was the nail in its coffin.
I absolutely agree -- the lack of mouseover would kill almost every Flash program out there. Additionally, some Flash expects you to be able to use the keyboard and mouse simultaneously.
http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2010/02/open_access_to_content_and_app.html
Ouch.
As i've said just a few posts above yours, the mouseover is just an interpretation of how the player reads the gestures. Flash applications don't actually have direct access to your device, when you do anything on top of a flash object, the flash player is the one that catches your inputs and translates them before forwarding it to the actual flash. That's fundamentally how flash multiplatform nature works, and it also means it can differentiate a tap from a swipe without changing anything on the flash site.
As for simultaneous mouse and keyboard, that's up to the authors implementation.
@heatlesssun
I've only had experience with my sisters Pavillion (it flips over into a tablet mode). It works with the finger but the advantage with the pen is that it tracks the pens position even when you're not touching the screen. This made compatibility with all her applications (flash applications included) a non-issue. Is this standard for all tablets?
Ouch.
As i've said just a few posts above yours, the mouseover is just an interpretation of how the player reads the gestures. Flash applications don't actually have direct access to your device, when you do anything on top of a flash object, the flash player is the one that catches your inputs and translates them before forwarding it to the actual flash. That's fundamentally how flash multiplatform nature works, and it also means it can differentiate a tap from a swipe without changing anything on the flash site.
As for simultaneous mouse and keyboard, that's up to the authors implementation.
@heatlesssun
I've only had experience with my sisters Pavillion (it flips over into a tablet mode). It works with the finger but the advantage with the pen is that it tracks the pens position even when you're not touching the screen. This made compatibility with all her applications (flash applications included) a non-issue. Is this standard for all tablets?
Parmenides
Supreme [H]ardness
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I know HTML5 will take forever, we still have home users stuck on IE 6 who will never quit until their computer dies. But any push is a good thing. Web developers need a half good reason to get started, otherwise no one will start. As you probably know, web developers are stuck only writing within user's capabilities. So, the sooner we have population groups with HTML5 and no flash, the better.
dr.stevil
[H]F Junkie
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Yes, you can skate past their security pretty damn easy with a jailbreak (and add more, far that matter). The DevTeam and GeoHot have been very proactive about finding exploits in thier firmwareWhen I say security, I mean by allowing certain code to run on the device through the appstore (on a vanilla phone). Apple, understandably, doesnt want code that they don't officially support, running on their device. There was an issue last year where some software from a certain developer was taking personal information (including phone numbers) from it's users and sending them to back to the developer without the users consent. Those types of shenanigans are much harder to sneak by if you're restricted to apples offical SDK
Zellio2010
Limp Gawd
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Hey, the app store isn't all that bad, if you go for the psp/ds type games that sell for $20 less...
Trepidati0n
[H]F Junkie
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I can play thousands of games for free via flash other than being obligated to view advertisement...but you think I should $20 each of them...even though they may suck? Are you a trying to get a job with Apple? Your comment also makes want to pull out the facepalm image.
Gnomepatrol
Limp Gawd
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good laugh at Apple telling someone else they are closed and proprietary
dr.stevil
[H]F Junkie
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Same with the appstore.
there are thousands of free and/or ad sponsored games (a lot of which are ported flash games) You also have access to AAA titles as well (gta, final fantasy, the sims, plants vs zombies, etc) and cheaper than their DS/PSP/PC version to boot.He said $20 less, not $20. I haven't found a single game in the App Store over $10, and even those are a rarity (most are under $5, many under $3). And like stevil said, there are a ton of free ad-sponsored games in addition to a ton of free "Lite" version games.
I'm not going to say the iPhone is a great gaming platform, because I really don't think it is, but at least the games are pretty cheap and typically pretty decent.