Apple Sued Over Mandatory Employee Bag Checks

When they do a bag check at Apple, are they actually feeling your testicles, or just looking at them and then giving them a score?
 
You could just stop carrying a bag into work... leave it in your car and just take your phone and wallet... not that difficult.
 
farscapesg1 said:
I can see mandatory bag searches, but the real issue isn't the searching, it is the incompetence that requires it to take more than 5 minutes to get through security. Anything more than 5-10 minutes and it should be on the clock.

As for suing, that may have been their only option. Unfortunately, as someone else already mentioned, our current work environment sucks for the employee and just by looking at this thread you can already see both management and non-management views saying "if you don't like it, leave". Unfortunately, you also have the increasing mentality of "we don't care what you think" and "there are 100 people waiting to take your spot." Ideally, you have a problem with a policy, you take it up with your management, then HR. When it keeps falling on deaf ears... you aren't left with a lot of options if management is too bullheaded or "high and mighty" to see the problem and work on a solution.

As for the comments of "I would have fired someone like that" or "I wouldn't hire someone like that", just remember, flexibility is a two-way street. A lot of companies could learn a thing or two by practicing the "golden rule" and treating their employees how they would want to be treated. Personally, I work doing what I love so working extra hours, through lunch, on vacation, etc. isn't a big deal. Heck, I had to connect to work and fix a couple things from a hospital room the evening my wife gave birth to our first child! However, for my flexibility, I fully expect the company I work for to be flexible. If I have to leave for an appointment, I expect to be able to make my time up after hours/weekend/etc. If I have a sick kid and have to stay home, I expect to be able to work from home or catch an extra shift during the week.

I've know I've been lucky. I couldn't have ever worked for a company that treated everyone like they were a possible criminal or expected work flexibility without returning an equal amount of flexibility just because they write a check for your time.
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+1 bazillion

Same boat as you, willing to work pretty much anytime to make sure my job is good and correct. But I also expect the same flexibility back.
 
farscapesg1 said:
As for the comments of "I would have fired someone like that" or "I wouldn't hire someone like that", just remember, flexibility is a two-way street. A lot of companies could learn a thing or two by practicing the "golden rule" and treating their employees how they would want to be treated. Personally, I work doing what I love so working extra hours, through lunch, on vacation, etc. isn't a big deal. Heck, I had to connect to work and fix a couple things from a hospital room the evening my wife gave birth to our first child! However, for my flexibility, I fully expect the company I work for to be flexible. If I have to leave for an appointment, I expect to be able to make my time up after hours/weekend/etc. If I have a sick kid and have to stay home, I expect to be able to work from home or catch an extra shift during the week.
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I will also add... I have been hiring (and firing) contractors for a project. A contractor interviewed and then when we offered the position he declined due to taking another non-contract job.

The contract company rep apologized profusely and commented on lack of professionalism... I sort of chuckled and thought to myself... "I could get fired at anytime for anything as a contractor, I would give 1 single thought of quitting or declining a job at anytime... fair is fair, two way street"

In my early days right out of school for IT, I worked as a contractor for Target in their support call center (they ran an tight ship, never seen phone support done so well at least for internet employee/store support). Well one day a bunch of people were missing, they had a big meeting saying they had to lay people off (bubble burst), but they did it pro-actively so no more were needed.

Well 2-4 weeks later I was informed by my handler that more cuts were done and I was on the list. A week after that my handler called me back and said they made a mistake and wanted me specifically back. Went back, continued to interview with other jobs and contract companies. About 2 weeks after being back, I quit with another job offer.

Didn't feel 1 iota of guilt, they fired me instantly "by mistake lol" and if they should "feel" or think badly of me quitting instantly they can f-off and take their own medicine.
 
magoo said:
You don't know me, you don't know what I do or did or might do.

I am fully grown up, thank you.

I take this stance because I've been there in the past and didn't cry like a little baby, or worse SUE someone over it.

Fucking entitlement generation. You are the one who needs maturation.
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I think you should familiarize yourself with the FLSA. Apple is silly to let this go to court. They will lose and have to pay their employees for this time. Also you better hope your employees do not educate themselves on their rights (entitlements) because you are just asking to be sued if you truly treat your employees the way you make it appear here in this forum. The idea that because you pay someone to work for you gives you the right to dictate their free time is the real problem. That is the Fucking management entitlement generation.
 
magoo said:
That isn't what I said and not what the post said.
The guy said IF someone has an accident at that job, they not only get treatment but drug-screened.
I think that's acceptable, and no they shouldn't get paid while they are in the ER getting treatment from their burn.
I fully understand medical treatment.



I don't work for Apple.
I don't own any Apple items.
I am a private business owner and have to put up with this kind of bullshit all the time.
My attitude and the attitude of my business is......we tell you how things are, if you do not like our reality, don't apply.

Yup. We drug test every one of our employees before they start. We don't pay them to get the testing done. They anticipate getting paid for work once they are hired.

And yes, I fire people like the guy who was bitching about working on his lunch hour. We are a small business and the people here realize, if we don't make money....no one gets paid.
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Are you saying you made an employee clock out for lunch, but still keep working. Then fired them when they requested to be paid for the time they worked? Yeah fuck your employees for wanting to actually be paid for hours they are working for you doing actual work. They should be happy to just show up and put in 8 hours for no money to give you more profit. Fucking people today thinking they need to be paid to do a job.
 
If Apple wishes to filter out criminals, they should be doing criminal background checks prior to hiring. Which they probably do already.
 
magoo said:
And yes, I fire people like the guy who was bitching about working on his lunch hour. We are a small business and the people here realize, if we don't make money....no one gets paid.
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Your employees must feel honored to work for a man who so readily and so unabashedly lays his own responsibilities at their feet and just tells them to deal with it.
 
magoo said:
And yes, I fire people like the guy who was bitching about working on his lunch hour. We are a small business and the people here realize, if we don't make money....no one gets paid.
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Have you ever heard of L&I or the DOL?. . . I think they might like a word with you.

Bona fide meal periods (typically 30 minutes or more) generally need not be compensated as work time. The employee must be completely relieved from duty for the purpose of eating regular meals. The employee is not relieved if he/she is required to perform any duties, whether active or inactive, while eating.
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Might want to read up on this website and the L&I website of your state of business
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.htm
 
For those of you that said, "Hey, you were told about the policy, so stop bitching." I would ask you this: Do you think when Apple told them about the policy they said something like "You will be searched every time you leave the premises, which will take about 30 minutes for which you will not be paid." If that's what the were told, then I agree with you that the employees have nothing to bitch about. But I doubt that's what management told them.

And to the person that said, "You are not working, so you don't get paid." Suppose your employer required you to attend a company wide meeting. And during said meeting nothing a value was communicated (we've all been to those kind of meetings). And you were not paid for that time. Would you be OK with this? It's the same thing really.
 
magoo said:
So, if you work for a big company, and let's say it takes you 15 minutes a day each way to get into the parking lot and out to go home; you'd like to be compensated for that too?

How about the hour early (or more) you have to get up to get ready for work?

Commute?

Fuck these idiots. They know the rules. They get searched. Tough shit. Quit.

So you want to get paid while waiting for security to check and make sure you don't rip off your employer? hehehe, that's funny.:eek:
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You know legally you must get paid for anything your employer directs you to do. So unless you are free to skip the check, you must be paid. But you know, fuck people's rights and the law cause we should all give our time away for free.

Your examples of the parking lot and commute show how little you understand about employment law. When you are in the parking lot, or driving to work, you can do whatever you like. Your employer doesn't tell you when to leave for work, or how to get there. All that your employer requires is for you to show up at your scheduled time.

If you are not permitted to leave by your employer because of a policy they set, that is company time and legally they must pay for you for it.
 
staticlag said:
That's why the vast majority of companies requiring drug testing for full time employees will let them do it on the clock.
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A drug test can be a condition of preemployment. Once you are employed the company must pay you to take further drug tests. We compensate all our employees if they are asked to take a random screening.
 
RGMBill said:
The US Navy is my employer, directly, as I'm a US Navy Civilian Scientist. The US Navy is the owner of the base, directly. The US Navy employs either the Guards or the Military Personnel who man the gate, directly.

So, yes, yes it is indeed the EXACT SAME THING. You're "They're searching bags!" is EXACTLY the same as "They're searching every car and person leaving base, with dogs and mirrors."

And you better bet that when they are holding M16 rifles, pistols, SAWs, and large guard dogs, and are stopping cars both coming AND going that it's part of my job duties. And the US Government says "But you don't get paid for that."

And forty minutes leaving the base because THEY'VE CLOSED THE GATE and aren't letting people leave (which then effects whether I can get my daughter to dance lessons, or her violin lessons, or to meet my wife, or to get to a Doctor's appointment where they will charge me for missing my appointment or being late) is a direct result.

And with all that, I accept that as part of what it takes for me to do my job. Hell, the Government just decided to take 20% of my pay (without requiring me to work less) for 6, 8 or 11 weeks (it's probable that it will drop to 8 as of last night, and possibly as low as 6). And I have to take THAT. As a Scientist, I can't exactly "Turn it off" as to what I do... it's not like I'm providing Tech Support, or Data Processing, where time at work=time working. Some of my most interesting breakthroughs over the last few years have occurred in the Shower, or over the weekends after being able to digest the results of previous experiments and work. My current work right now would be impossible without ideas that I came up with "on my own time". And I'm expected to continue to do that, but for less money and with less time in our labs.
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If you're enlisted then civilian labor laws do not apply to you in anyway what so ever.
 
rivertown_rat said:
And to the person that said, "You are not working, so you don't get paid." Suppose your employer required you to attend a company wide meeting. And during said meeting nothing a value was communicated (we've all been to those kind of meetings). And you were not paid for that time. Would you be OK with this? It's the same thing really.
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That actually happens all the time once you are a salaried employee and exempt from overtime. Accomplish these goals that should take x number of hours. You have Y days to complete it. (generally a tight schedule) Oh and you need to attend 12 hours of mandatory training/meetings during this same time frame. It's ok if you want to stay late to stay on top of the project or just do the training from home. We love you guys.

^^^^^ The above is ALL TOO COMMON in corporate jobs. Of course this is why everyone grossly overestimates the time to completion of a project. Under promise over deliver. :)
 
CMadki4 said:
Remind me to never hire you. You're just the kind of guy I let go all the time for thinking you're above everything and have zero ability to adapt or be flexible.
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There's adaptability/flexibility and then there's just being taken advantage of. Being asked to work over lunch is fine if you're doing it once in a while, but when you are doing that multiple times a week every week, there's something wrong.
 
The people that work for us are well paid.
They all understand the nature of the job, the rules of the business, and that there are unconventional hours.
They are paid for the hours they work.
If they miss lunch or dinner or whatever, and are working they are paid.
If they work overtime, they are compensated.
When the business does well, they are bonused.
They receive raises quarterly.

I do not need lectures on the business laws in my state or in the country.

If anyone else here owns a business, feel free to discuss how you perceive Apples policies.
If you don't, then you work for someone, and have to follow their rules.....like it or not.....and you have an opportunity to quit at any time.
Yes the departments of labor have rules.....all of which we must adhere to.
But, there is such a sense of entitlement here.......but that's for another day.
 
magoo said:
The people that work for us are well paid.
They all understand the nature of the job, the rules of the business, and that there are unconventional hours.
They are paid for the hours they work.
If they miss lunch or dinner or whatever, and are working they are paid.
If they work overtime, they are compensated.
When the business does well, they are bonused.
They receive raises quarterly.

I do not need lectures on the business laws in my state or in the country.

If anyone else here owns a business, feel free to discuss how you perceive Apples policies.
If you don't, then you work for someone, and have to follow their rules.....like it or not.....and you have an opportunity to quit at any time.
Yes the departments of labor have rules.....all of which we must adhere to.
But, there is such a sense of entitlement here.......but that's for another day.
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I agree. You have a massive sense of entitlement.
 
I love all of the "if you don't like it, quit" posts. Yes, let's let big corporations get away with whatever they want and place the onus on employees for complaining and seeking recompense instead of the employer for being douches and treating their employees' time as worthless. This is 'Murica! Land of the best pro-corporate, anti-worker propaganda that money can buy!
 
magoo said:
Yes the departments of labor have rules.....all of which we must adhere to.
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You do understand this lawsuit is not about entitlements but the very rules from the DOL that you state you must adhere to. These employees claim that the search is a request of their employer. Because they are not free to go, per labor laws, they must be paid. If the employer isn't willing to do this, the courts will step in. No entitlement. The only entitlement I see in the entire case is Apple thinking they are entitled to 30 minutes of free time from their employees.

I do not own a business, but I am a manager at a corporation with about 30 people under me. Unless they are salaries company policy and law requires me to pay them for anything I direct them to do.
 
magoo said:
But, there is such a sense of entitlement here.......but that's for another day.
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First let me say I like your posts here. People are taking your snippet responses that you gave and jumping to conclusions. (Imagine that on the internet of all places!)

You sound like you are on the up and up and you probably can't reasonably imagine putting your employees in that situation.

I applaud that. Your small business (as you stated.) needs to have people that are driven and motivated to succeed and by effect have your business and yourself succeed. You won't abuse them because you keep the talented ones and the rest can take a hike. Again I appreciate that.

Apple on the other hand has tens of thousands of employees. They make a vast margin on their products compared to most competitors and control the market place for the products that they do sell. (they have created their own supply/demand circle.)

They also have a unique mind share in the marketplace.

It allows them to employ kids passionate about their products to sell/support them.

I am sure they are offered decent benifits in most cases. (I hope but do not KNOW so I can not speak to that so lets assume positive intent.)

One store or one region of stores is forcing employees to be searched before leaving on personal time.

The problem is they are REQUIRING the EMPLOYEE to use PERSONAL time. I will make the assumption here that his requirement is contingent on continued employment with the company in question.

Once I am required to use personal time it is != to Personal time. As such it should conditionally be paid time by the employer. I think you would agree based on the post I am quoting a snippet from. As 1. You don't want your employees to feel as if they are abused. Because 2. You realize driven happy employees contribute more to your success than unhappy complaining ones do.

If you have driven happy employees it is because you are giving them what they need to be happy. Those are normally.

1. A livable wage/benefits.
2. A sense of accomplishment.
3. Personal time to refresh.

That's it.. That is the real crux. These employees are missing a part of those three items otherwise they would not have thought about filing a law suite. (That or some lawyer is exploiting some young employees to make some money.)
 
magoo said:
But, there is such a sense of entitlement here.......but that's for another day.
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What about the sense of entitlement by companies that is rampant in the country? Just because the company hands out paycheck they feel like the are entitled to control not only what the employee does during work but also on their personal time (look at the firings for social media posts). Everyone likes to complain that people have this "sense of entitlement" but really, the companies and their management are the ones taking things to the extreme nowadays. What gives them the right to dictate how an employee, especially hourly, spends their time during lunch or before/after work? Because they give them a paycheck for their time and effort? So.. how much money did that employee make for the company? If a company doesn't make more profit than they pay in salary.. obviously they aren't going to get very far. So really, the employee is what is making the business run and deserves every bit of "entitlement", if not more than the management of said company...
 
I have slightly different attitude about my employees than others posting. My employees are my business. I strive for retention and high morale. Each of them was selected from hundreds of applications, dozens of interviews and admittedly one or two people that didn't want the work and had to be let go. We're not doing anything complicated, but we're too small to afford to be constantly hiring and training new staff.

I ask a lot. My job is to make sure my employees can do it, that they have the training, tools and willingness. I'll order in if someone gets bogged down and skips a meal. I kick them off the floor to take breaks. I run competitions and give spiffs for performance. I make each of them spend ten minutes with me a week to shoot the shit and let them bitch.

My employees are the face of my business. They see my customers more than I do. I spend more time with them than at home. Why the fuck would I treat them like they're disposable?

I'm sure I'm a dick about a lot of things, the only one that's intentional is cell phones. My policy is simple, keep it in your pocket when you're where a customer can see you, breaks and meals only, both to be taken off the floor.

The result: low turnover and better numbers...
 
N2OInferno said:
When I was working for Circuit City, if you had a bag it had to be checked before you left. A couple people had been caught stealing, so I guess they just thought it was best to assume everyone was.
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Single someone out to check their bag and you are likely to get hit by a civil rights lawsuit.

Check everyone's bag and you piss off all of your employees equally (well maybe the ones stealing will be more pissed than the others).

Exercising judgement means being liable if a court can infer you used that judgement inappropriately after the fact.

It's not fair to the vast majority of employees, nor is it fair to the employers, but it's the system we have so we all have to deal with it.
 
I worked at a large computer retailer in the mid 90s. Bag searches were standard when leaving. Even the store manager had to have his briefcase checked on his way out the door. It took only a minute or two for the search.
 
AaronGant said:
So it would be equally fair to not pay store employees if it was a slow day and there were no customers. You are just standing there, even if required to be there for 8 hours. It's not working, it's just waiting for possible customers.
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That's actually called "On Commission".
 
demingo said:
If you're enlisted then civilian labor laws do not apply to you in anyway what so ever.
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As I said, I am a CIVILIAN Scientist for the Navy. I work directly for the US Navy, and have worked for it long enough that I could have retired from the Navy if I had been enlisted or an officer long ago. However, I am a CIVILIAN, in the Department of the Navy.
 
At Fedex (as a package handler) you get scanned with a metal detector (and a wand if you trip it) empty all your pockets and have to take your shoes off before you can leave the building (off the clock).
 
magoo said:
But, there is such a sense of entitlement here.......but that's for another day.
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EXACTLY. You have the biggest sense of entitlement out of almost everyone being discussed here haha. So funny you can't see it, but yes, another day.
 
magoo said:
I worked in a place where you got searched in and out, too.
It was part of the job, we knew it before we started.
It wasn't personal.
I got paid to do a job. I accepted the employer's rules. Simple.

Your solution is acceptable, too. don't like it, quit.
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This right here. Some jobs simply are going to have rules like this. It's your choice to accept that job or find another one. Hell, try going on to a foreign flagged vessel at a deep water port. DHS and TSA everywhere and bag checks were common.

While i didn't care for it, it's a condition of my employment, so i deal with it. It's even worse for the co-workers who work in nuclear power plants. They are even more anal than what i have to deal with.
 
spugnor said:
This right here. Some jobs simply are going to have rules like this. It's your choice to accept that job or find another one. Hell, try going on to a foreign flagged vessel at a deep water port. DHS and TSA everywhere and bag checks were common.

While i didn't care for it, it's a condition of my employment, so i deal with it. It's even worse for the co-workers who work in nuclear power plants. They are even more anal than what i have to deal with.
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It's not the bag check/scan that they are complaining about. It is the fact that they have to do it on their own time instead of being on the clock. All they are suing for is the loss of personal time due to a company required policy.
 
magoo said:
Nothing against your sister, but if you have an accident at work, and there are policies in place, well......that's about all you need to say.
Why should the workplace pay her for getting injured?
They pay for the hospital evaluation, right? They aren't covering their ass, they are treating her injury and at the same time looking for causation. I'm sure her employer has had this happen more than once, therefore the mandatory drug testing.

Again, if you are standing in line at the end of the day, you ain't working, therefore should not get paid.
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Well shit, i should probably only get paid 2-3hrs a day then. My work comes in shit waves, quiet for hours where we have literally nothing to do but browse the internet and chat. Then huge shit waves of time critical work. So should i only be paid for the busy times? Or is it part of my job to be ready to work?

And any time off work resulting from a workplace injury should be compensated except where the employee is grossly negligent.

What kind of shit country are you from where you're of the mindset that employers should be able to get away with this shit! Fuck that impoverished shithole of a country.
 
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