Apple: The New Microsoft

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Say what you will about this article, call it Apple “hate” and so on, the fact of the matter is that this guy has a damn good point.

In a decade, Apple (AAPL) has gone from niche-market roadkill to a company whose growing dominance and competitive tactics in a booming market are thrilling investors, angering competitors, and drawing regulatory scrutiny.
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I like my Ipod, but I think the software sucks. Could they offer better software to the people who buy thier gadgets? I for one would like a more user friendly app for my Ipod.
 
I didn't think the article was very negative, just stating the obvious.

However as [H] readers we know apple has go themselves into hot water lately for other reasons (bullying other companies over new hires, exploding parts etc).. yet most apple customers do not care.

the same hippy that tells you to save the world, go green, don't violate human rights... is usually A-OK with wearing a sweatshop made headphone set from Apple along with a sweatshop 16+ hour shiftly made ipod.

They are ok with that.
 
jroe52 said:
the same hippy that tells you to save the world, go green, don't violate human rights... is usually A-OK with wearing a sweatshop made headphone set from Apple along with a sweatshop 16+ hour shiftly made ipod.
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What's wrong with sweatshops? Is sweat causing global warming now, too?
 
Apple has been more aggressive for its own IP control than Microsoft lately. Its got more press for it also, good or bad, its still press, and that builds the mantra.

I never was a fan of the iPod, I looked at it as overpriced MP3 player. I don't use cell phones for anything more than emergency purposes, so the iPhone has no use to me, and I would never buy a Mac. But there's a huge huge group of people that use all these products, and would rather you seperate them from them by force than by choice.

I ran MacOSX in a VM to see it done. Its gayness thankfully washes off easily enough. Even when it was the platform for graphics design and I was in the field of desire, I still cringed everytime I had to use a Mac.

Would I call Apple more Evil than MS? I just think that when Bill Gates left, the media lost their whipping boy, and when he started to donate billions, they had to start blowing him (because liberals like when you give them your money).
 
stiltner said:
Would I call Apple more Evil than MS? I just think that when Bill Gates left, the media lost their whipping boy, and when he started to donate billions, they had to start blowing him (because EVERYONE LIKES when you give them your money).
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Fixed it for you!
 
For old fogy's such as I, the Steve Jobs' Apple has always been this inxerable place that is good at selling bad tech at overinflated prices. Nothing wrong with that, and my 401(k) and IRA thank him.

However, I do hate its egotistical, hyperbole spewing user base. Plenty of reasons while, maybe I've only meet the Apple fanatics who are plain A-holes, but I doubt it's just 'coincidence.' I especially hate the iPhone-pedia's, you know, the people who whip out the iPhone to correct you on any and everything. You know the type.

Finally, I read articles like this and LOL. Really? I had no idea marketing weenies were able to diagnose a significant material or design failure with a couple of pictures. Maybe I should tell all these companies paying me to troubleshoot R&D that they're just wasting their time, Apple can figure out your problems if you send them a couple of pics, just make sure it's taken with an iPhone.

So yea, I see Apple running into the same problems as Microsoft did in the 1990's. The only difference, Steve Jobs has yet to prove he's right about anything, where as Bill was quite accurate about how people would be using computers today.
 
Apple has managed to stifle competition in the US. They did it with mp3 players. Don’t think so then look at the availability and cost of mp3 players overseas, a lot more choices and cheaper. Same with phones now.

Bill Gates while he had faults was never the megalomaniac control freak many made him out to be, Steve Jobs is that megalomaniac control freak and the idea of him and Apple with more control than they have now in mobile phone/computing platforms is not a pleasant thought.
 
Max Mike said:
Apple has managed to stifle competition in the US. They did it with mp3 players.
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This has been going on for a long time.

Back when Apple started allowing other companies, such as Radius, Power Computing, and a few others, to manufacture Mac clones, Apple panicked, and pulled the plug on the licenses, when they saw that the clones were better, and cheaper.
 
This is what my brain hears when I watch Apple commercials:

Hi, I am a Mac. I artificially and legally tie software to hardware. If Microsoft did this they would get sued into oblivion, but since I am a Mac nobody cares. As a Mac I want Apple to be as powerful as every single PC OEM plus Microsoft all combined into one super corporation. Buy a Mac, because I am totally secure from viruses and don't ever have any problems.
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Imagine if Microsoft stopped selling Windows for standard PC hardware. You legally had to buy a Microsoft computer to run Windows. You are never allowed to build your own machine. You can forget about real overclocking. Now also imagine that the only real difference between that Microsoft computer and your old standard PC was a few inconsequential hardware differences and a legal agreement. Now change the name from Microsoft to Apple and you have exactly what Apple does now. The governments of the world would have a shitstorm on Microsoft if that happened.

Apple is all about being in control of the hardware *and* software and that makes Microsoft look like a kitten in comparison.
 
Except that, unlike Microsoft, Apple has a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to antitrust regulation.
 
Looking at Apple, I think it's still premature to call it having absolute dominance in the mobile phone app platform. Apple is not a de facto standard yet in terms of the software implementation model, and until other mobile phone companies come to trumpet Apple's OS as the default choice for consumers, Apple remains as that of an important, but not all-important player in this new platform market.
 
I don't think the article was very negative, it stated what many people have known all along. Hopefully, the DOJ, FCC, and the SEC will watch them more closely to keep them from being a total monopoly in the mobile phone market. A few days ago, Leo Laporte made a comment on Buzz Out Loud that was very true about Apple. He compared Apple to Mussolini's Italy, I forget what the exact comment was but it was something to the effect of one entity controlling everything, but in doing so, everything ran, more or less, smoothly. You just had very little choice.
 
I think the article pretty much clearly says that Apple is doing well on heir mobile platform. Things like computer hardware are obviously pretty piss poor with 10% of the market share.

Mobile Juggernaught because of 50,000 apps? Aren't a majority of those apps games? Honestly, there are like 10 different "fart" applications; quantity doesn't mean quality. Out of all mobile platforms, I think RIM has a much more lucrative market (businesses), and while BlackBerry's are certainly not considered as "hip," they are known for doing a damn good job. As far as I know, BlackBerry still has the smartphone market, no?
 
FrostBite said:
I think the article pretty much clearly says that Apple is doing well on heir mobile platform. Things like computer hardware are obviously pretty piss poor with 10% of the market share.

Mobile Juggernaught because of 50,000 apps? Aren't a majority of those apps games? Honestly, there are like 10 different "fart" applications; quantity doesn't mean quality. Out of all mobile platforms, I think RIM has a much more lucrative market (businesses), and while BlackBerry's are certainly not considered as "hip," they are known for doing a damn good job. As far as I know, BlackBerry still has the smartphone market, no?
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RIM has a firm grip on it... Carriers offering free Curves sure helped them retain that as well, since it's currently the #1 selling smartphone out there.

Blackberry is flat out king for business use... No arguing that. Apple has way too many issues and shortcomings for the business world. Using an iPhone for personal use would be great (Then my question would be why on earth you spend $130/mo on a casual, personal phone like that...)
 
Max Mike said:
Apple has managed to stifle competition in the US. They did it with mp3 players. Don’t think so then look at the availability and cost of mp3 players overseas, a lot more choices and cheaper. Same with phones now.
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So far its a very different story from Microsoft in the 90s. Microsoft fined and punished PC manufacturers for selling computers with other operating systems or no operating systems on them. Its this behavior that killed OS/2 before it really had a chance to compete fairly in the marketplace. Can you imagine if Microsoft hadn't been punished, you'd have a situation where companies like Dell wouldn't be able to sell PCs with operating systems or alternatives like Linux.

For Apple to do what you claim, they would basically have to do something like threaten to pull iPods and iPhones from Best Buy or Walmart because they also sell Zunes and other cell phones. As it stands, they don't do anything like that, not even close. Owning a dominant position in the marketplace doesn't equal anti-competitive behavior, it just means that customers like buying your product. This is something the EU and the majority of posters here need to understand. What Microsoft is doing right now isn't anti-competitive despite the fact that they own the OS market, and what Apple is doing right now isn't anti-competitive; they aren't punishing retailers for carrying Blackberry, Palm, or WinMo phones in the same shop. Until there is active coercion in the marketplace, there isn't really a problem here.
 
My opinion is that ipods are proprietary crap, but the marketing is nothing short of genius. I have owned a few through trades but got rid of them in the long run because its the image they are good for and not the quality of sound or space IMHO.
 
FrostBite said:
....
Mobile Juggernaught because of 50,000 apps? Aren't a majority of those apps games? Honestly, there are like 10 different "fart" applications; quantity doesn't mean quality. Out of all mobile platforms, I think RIM has a much more lucrative market (businesses), and while BlackBerry's are certainly not considered as "hip," they are known for doing a damn good job. As far as I know, BlackBerry still has the smartphone market, no?
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I popped into this thread, but I see you have already stated my thoughts.
 
Also, if RIM would just come out with a "consumer" phone platform with a pretty touch interface and proper application distribution (read: "app store") they could really put a stranglehold on the smartphone market. There are many crackberry fanatics out there that don't really need all the business friendly features.
 
Of course, the difference is, Microsoft got its monopoly largely from a cute contract with IBM. Whereas, Apple got its market share (probably not a monopoly yet) through innovation - or, if you are the typical HateOCP "iPods suck" drone - through good marketing. What was MS's great product, innovation, or marketing master stroke again?

Even the Apple haters here have to admit Jobs is a marketing master, since only a dummy would own an iphone or ipod. :rolleyes:

As for myself, a very happy AAPL stockholder. Keep on, keepin on, Apple. :D
 
uclajd said:
Of course, the difference is, Microsoft got its monopoly largely from a cute contract with IBM. Whereas, Apple got its market share (probably not a monopoly yet) through innovation - or, if you are the typical HateOCP "iPods suck" drone - through good marketing. What was MS's great product, innovation, or marketing master stroke again?

Even the Apple haters here have to admit Jobs is a marketing master, since only a dummy would own an iphone or ipod. :rolleyes:

As for myself, a very happy AAPL stockholder. Keep on, keepin on, Apple. :D
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So building an OS for altair was marketing? It had no real OS to begin with.

I don't like Microsoft that much. But Apple has always been full of shit with proprietary parts at rediculous prices. All they are fueled by is image and price fixing with hardware.

Apple's best offering is Final Cut and its OS which do a fine job.

Exploding, burning, and dying Ipods. Power bricks that have planned obsolescence and intentionally cannot be repaired. Some laptops lit on fire thanks to the (Sony?)batteries. Selling OS upgrades to people that don't have good enough graphics hardware to run the GUI properly, among other things too.

Like i said, I don't like Microsoft but I find them to be better to do business with than Apple.
 
prtzlboy said:
Also, if RIM would just come out with a "consumer" phone platform with a pretty touch interface and proper application distribution (read: "app store") they could really put a stranglehold on the smartphone market. There are many crackberry fanatics out there that don't really need all the business friendly features.
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Well the Storm 1 blew major ass chunks, so lets hope they get it right with the Storm 2. The app store is a living nightmare as it currently stands. It is slow and cumbersome to say the least.
 
Climber said:
Well the Storm 1 blew major ass chunks, so lets hope they get it right with the Storm 2. The app store is a living nightmare as it currently stands. It is slow and cumbersome to say the least.
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heh, I know all about it. I almost bought a Storm, until I got to play with my buddy's. What a piece of shit, lol! They just need to have a completely separate OS for the touch interface.

There is still a chance for other players to jump in there, because the app store on the iPhone and iPod touch is pretty crappy. as it stands (imo, of course). It's too hard to find "good" applications unless you already know the exact app you're looking for.

And I agree with the the overall assessment of the mobile market that was presented in that article. Apps--the good ones--can greatly increase the usefulness of your device.

They're not just phones anymore. They're mobile platforms.
 
So Apple will not need a bail out from the Government? Or will IPods for clunkers not be needed?
 
Attean said:
This guy wins the thread. Everybody go home. Microsoft really has no great product.
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The XBox 360 is pretty great. Yeah, the hardware is faulty as hell (even MIcrosoft didn't refute the claim that over 50% of them have failed) and its accessories are way overpriced (the hard drive situation really bothers me since I can install any 2.5" SATA drive into a PS3 and any SD card into a Wii), but the XBL service is excellent and it has a great library (mostly shared with the PS3 but its still great). Despite all these faults and the fact that Microsoft is very anti-PC gaming precisely because of the 360 (there is no other reason for them to axe a PC version of Alan Wake), the 360 itself as a standalone gaming console is a good consumer product.

So yeah, that's one great thing they make (with many caveats) :)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uclajd
What was MS's great product, innovation, or marketing master stroke again?

This guy wins the thread. Everybody go home. Microsoft really has no great product.
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True that and how that must hurt for anyone at MS that retains objectivity.

The worst is all the innovators that get bought up and the fruit dies as soon as it becomes part of the corperate tree.
 
Apple has always been far worse than MS. Its just that until recently they had no leverage at all.


And as a Blackberry owner... RIM is clueless. Well mostly, they just bought a WebKit browser company so maybe they will get their browser in decent shape. Apples biggest threat is mobile linux, be is WebOS, Android, or whatever Nokia is working on (N900). Palm and Nokia are both somewhat dark horses here...i think nokia stands a really good chance as they are a HUGE cellphone company and with a switch to a new OS..... well,it could be big.
 
ivesceneenough said:
Apple has always been far worse than MS. Its just that until recently they had no leverage at all.


And as a Blackberry owner... RIM is clueless. Well mostly, they just bought a WebKit browser company so maybe they will get their browser in decent shape. Apples biggest threat is mobile linux, be is WebOS, Android, or whatever Nokia is working on (N900). Palm and Nokia are both somewhat dark horses here...i think nokia stands a really good chance as they are a HUGE cellphone company and with a switch to a new OS..... well,it could be big.
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I totally agree. I thought Android was supposed to be more of a boost to their stock, and proof of concept, than a game changer when it came to measuring up to the competition. Maybe it has evolved a great deal since I have last seen info on it? (I guess I will google it :))
 
ivesceneenough said:
And as a Blackberry owner... RIM is clueless. Well mostly, they just bought a WebKit browser company so maybe they will get their browser in decent shape. Apples biggest threat is mobile linux, be is WebOS, Android, or whatever Nokia is working on (N900). Palm and Nokia are both somewhat dark horses here...i think nokia stands a really good chance as they are a HUGE cellphone company and with a switch to a new OS..... well,it could be big.
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LOL... You obviously haven't used Blackberry for business purposes. They're king.

If all you care about is a browser, sure... iPhone is the best. But when you take all the enterprise tools together, Apple has a LONG way to go.
 
TechieSooner said:
LOL... You obviously haven't used Blackberry for business purposes. They're king.

If all you care about is a browser, sure... iPhone is the best. But when you take all the enterprise tools together, Apple has a LONG way to go.
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My thoughts too. If you want a phone to play with, a BlackBerry is not what you choose, you get an iPhone. If you are supplied a phone from work, you get a BlackBerry.

Personally, I don't think Apple is the new Microsoft. You know who is Microsoft? Microsoft. Microsoft is known for their operating systems and they dominatethat field. Apple does well in the mp3 market, but they sure as hell don't dominate it. Also, every since Microsoft's first flight sim's and racing games, well before XBox, they were expanding into much different and more lucritive markets. Apple, on the other hand, sells iPods and phones with iPod's built into it with more bells and whistles. How much faster will iPods, iPhones, iTouch etc.. start to cannibilize their business (why do you need an iTouch or iPod if you have an iPhone) compared to Microsoft and just their gaming consoles? A lot quicker.
 
Attean said:
This guy wins the thread. Everybody go home. Microsoft really has no great product.
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That's a common mistake. You don't have to swim faster than the shark. You just have to swim faster than the slowest swimmer.

Much the same way, Microsoft doesn't have to produce a great product. They just have to suck less than the next guy (apple).
 
bigdogchris said:
Hold on. I thought those 'Get a Mac' commercial's weren't working?
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They are and they aren't. Educated users know better. Apple fanbois love them and the standard consumer may or may not still be swayed but Apple doesn't make as much from computers as they do their "i" brand.
 
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