ATi R520 'Shader Unit' Rumours

coz

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jan 11, 2002
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Our good friend Fud (yeah, I know how to spell his name!) over at the Inquirer has reported that, "ATI's R520 has eight Shader units". Ok, thanks for that Fud, now is that pixel shader units or vertex shader units? Do you even know the difference? Whenever I read his articles I always get the strong impression that he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about!!

Given the number of 'shader units' he mentioned, I'm certain he's talking about vertex shader units in R520. 8 vertex processing units sounds about right and follows a nice progression from the previous couple of generations - 9800XT (4) -> X800 (6) -> R520 (8). No big surprise there then.

The questions of clockspeed, pixel pipelines and video memory subsystem are a bit harder to guess though. I think we'll see either 24 (probably more likely) or 32 pixel pipes in R520, think of the pixel power that 32 pipes would deliver! The 90nm low-k TSMC process should be capable of some pretty impressive transistor performance given how good their 130nm low-k process was. I guess a clockspeed between 500-600MHz should be a safe bet even with an assload of transistors (300 million +). I hope TSMC don't hit the same degree of current leakage that Intel did with their 90nm process, I don't want to see a dustbuster-style cooler on R520!!

One interesting area of R520 design is the memory subsystem. I'm sure the current high-end generation of cards is bottlenecked to a certain extent by memory bandwidth, even with 256-bit 1.2GHz GDDR3. Given the raw pixel horsepower of the next generation R520, what are they going to do with the video memory to prevent a serious bottleneck? Are we ready for a 512-bit memory interface in these cards yet? 3DLabs has a video card with a 512-bit memory interface but it's not a card for gamers. I'm sure we'll see a 512MB flavour of R520 at some point but that won't help the bandwidth issue. What else will they do? Maybe some EDRAM or something (which is something R500 is supposed to include)?

Let the spekulayshun begin. :)
 
Don't forget at least PS3.0, that's one arguement Nvidia fans can no longer use....

I want one :D

32pipe monster lmao
 
Perhaps he's talking about quads? I mean, the 6800 has 4 quads, so ATI pushing to 8 quads wouldn't be inconceivable....
 
If R520 is a pci express only product it will most likely feature ATI's new Hyper Memory. Allowing the video card to use system ram.
 
pandora's box said:
If R520 is a pci express only product it will most likely feature ATI's new Hyper Memory. Allowing the video card to use system ram.

Wich is slower than GFX-GDDR3-Ram and wouldn't increase preformance...
Infact I don't even think AGP aperture survied into the PCI-e..anyone on this??

Terra - About time that this obsolote feature died! :)
 
Tigerblade said:
Don't forget at least PS3.0, that's one arguement Nvidia fans can no longer use....

I want one :D

32pipe monster lmao

lol...all I can say is good luck ATi...if you can double your transistor count and not lose clock speed on a new process...I'll be impressed...
 
Terra said:
Wich is slower than GFX-GDDR3-Ram and wouldn't increase preformance...
Infact I don't even think AGP aperture survied into the PCI-e..anyone on this??

Terra - About time that this obsolote feature died! :)

If you mean can pcie cards use system memory yea they can. It would have been a crippling factor if they couldn't, since the reason for aperture was constraits of data on the local card memory that couldn't be met are still very real concerns.

Ati has hyper transport, not sure what nvidia has. (some other fancy name for "hyper memory") But with PCIE they seem to have done a better job than the last time around, this also allows you to keep less local memory on the card, droping prices. \

It also doesn't seem to take the performance hit we got with AGP.
 
Kevin Lowe said:
Perhaps he's talking about quads? I mean, the 6800 has 4 quads, so ATI pushing to 8 quads wouldn't be inconceivable....
Nah, he said X800 had 6 'shader units', if he meant 'quads' then that'd make X800 a 24-pipe design. However, X800 does have 6 *vertex* shader units, so I think that's what he was referring to. But R520 could feature an 8-quad design (32 pixel pipes) except the transistor count would be pretty huge! Then again, with a 90nm process they've got die space to play with so who knows?
 
pandora's box said:
If R520 is a pci express only product it will most likely feature ATI's new Hyper Memory. Allowing the video card to use system ram.
Using the slow-ass (relatively) x16 PCIe connection isn't an answer to increasing video memory bandwidth. I'd hate to see what kind of performance you'd get when fetching texture/vertex data from system memory at 4GB/s (PCIe x16, single direction) compared to 37GB/s (256-bit 1.2GHz GDDR3) from local video memory. ATi's Hypermemory (and NV's Turbo Cache) are simply solutions for low-cost cards, not something for high-end parts like R520.
 
Wixard said:
If you mean can pcie cards use system memory yea they can. It would have been a crippling factor if they couldn't, since the reason for aperture was constraits of data on the local card memory that couldn't be met are still very real concerns.

Ati has hyper transport, not sure what nvidia has. (some other fancy name for "hyper memory") But with PCIE they seem to have done a better job than the last time around, this also allows you to keep less local memory on the card, droping prices. \

It also doesn't seem to take the performance hit we got with AGP.

NV has hypertransport too

http://www.hypertransport.org/

NV was one of the founding members
 
Elios said:
NV has hypertransport too

http://www.hypertransport.org/

NV was one of the founding members


Yes, Nvidia currently has hypertransport motherboards.

We're talking about video cards which HT, supportive ones have not yet hit the consumer sector. (there may be some super high end ones out, but none ot my knowledge)

When they do it's likely they'll call it something flashly like super extremeultra overclocked memory speed transfer rate support.
 
pandora's box said:
If R520 is a pci express only product it will most likely feature ATI's new Hyper Memory. Allowing the video card to use system ram.

....blasphemous. Lets make new video cards act like integrated solutions. System memory doesn't have the bandwidth and neither does pci-e.
 
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