B350 vs. x370 for my needs

[y0bailey]

Alright folks, I'm about to jump in on a Ryzen build.

I'm mostly using this for 1080p gaming, and general computing, nothing overly taxing otherwise. I know 1080p gaming isn't the Ryzen's strongpoint, but let's face it I'm an AMD fanboi running a piece of shit FX8350 at 4.6ghz and I'm just flat out ready to be done with this space heater. Also I have some faith a few updates and Ryzen will be good as gold. I'm mostly playing Overwatch at this point, and I run a 144hz freesync monitor.

OK...so here is what I need....and I'm thinking I can save a few bucks and grab the B350, but I just want to make sure I don't have any regrets.

1) Again, 1080p gaming, maybe 1440p gaming in the future.
2) Never crossfire/SLI. Too much heat, cost, and hassle.
3) Going to jump into M2 boot drive and game install drive. SATA SSDs will become "backup" drives or get slapped in other PCs.
4) I do have a PCIe sound card I plan on using.
5) I'm on HARDOCP, so of course I'm going to overclock. It seems to me like these chips have a ceiling well before the motherboard craps out, but at the same time I don't want to limit myself with the wrong chipset.
6) My AIO water cooler doesn't seem to have AM4 brackets yet (corsair h105), and I have read that the Asus X370 board will accept my AM3+ backplate...so not having to buy a new cooler puts this board on the potential "worth the extra money" list.


What would you buy with this info. B350 vs. X370? Any mobo in particular?

 

[ecmaster76]

If no SLI then B350 should be fine for all that. It has a couple less SATA and USB ports but probably nothing you'll miss.

For any of them though maybe do some homework on build quality since the chipset doesn't dictate the quality of the power regulation

 

[Topweasel]

I am a features guy so for me multiple M.2 as many Sata III and USB connectors are a must. To me system stability and capabilities is a hard requirement and more than CPU choice, Video card choice, PSU choice, Motherboard ranks the highest. It's the piece you least want to deal with swapping out, changes can have all sorts of impact on windows (including dealing with the loss of your windows 10 license). The majority of 370 options are only $30-$40 more expensive. The one thing I can say for certain is that almost all of the boards have a weaker VRM setup than their 370 partners. To me even that alone is worth stepping down the CPU option (if I wasn't getting a 1700 already) videocard, or even doing just one stick of memory for now.

Basically while their isn't a whole lot different. Really go over the capability list, feature list, see what others experience with the board are. Just make sure you get the right one.

 

[dgz]

I was about to ask the same question. Of course, I am still running my 2500k and have no *need* to upgrade but the itch is real. Also I need IOMMU for my virtualized gaming plans.

I have no need for "features" and stupid crap like SLI.

What are the differences between these chipsets anyway?

 

[Trimlock]

My board needs goes beyond that of the X370, but I'm willing to go with this build and use the extra money on an add-in card to get the remaining features I need.

For me the B350 is a no go, but as a platform the B350 is a great price/performance option over its competition.

 

[kirbyrj]

I'm in a very similar situation. Personally, I just went with the Asus B350 Prime until the proverbial dust settles and we have a few decent AM4 boards to choose from with ironed out bioses. For $100, I'm sure I can repurpose it in the future.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

From what I understand about the B350 motherboards is that you can overclock the cpu but the VRM on those boards are not suited for 24/7 use when overclocked.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...-of-the-Jedi&p=5255394&viewfull=1#post5255394

Go buy a b350 based on the features that fits your needs best. I think you could even get away with a reasonable oc maybe 3.7-3.8. But 4gig 24/7 well just look at pwm...your asking for problems..

something funny http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...et-for-Ryzen&p=5255375&viewfull=1#post5255375

 

[y0bailey]

Well...tax refund spent! But my 4+ year old CPU/mobo need an upgrade.

BUILD:

New stuff:
Ryzen 1700
ASUS ROG Crosshair Hero 6
16gb DDR4 3200 Corsair vengeance
MydigitalSSD m2 NVMe drive 240gb

Old stuff:
Corsair H105 cooler
Powercolor R390 videocard




Ready to get this beast up and running!

 

[KD5ZXG]

>1) Again, 1080p gaming, maybe 1440p gaming in the future.
>2) Never crossfire/SLI. Too much heat, cost, and hassle.
>3) Going to jump into M2 boot drive

For my 40" television @ 1080P 60Hz, I am using crossfire
RX480's on ASUS Prime B350 Plus PCIe(16x3.0 + 4x2.0).

For $100 less than 1070, overshot 60Hz goal with enough
margin to underclock -20% apiece, into total fan silence.
Was cheaper to add the second RX480 and VSync 60Hz,
than buy a new monitor that could freesync down to 30Hz.
And to my surprise, AMD HDMI routed audio to my TV too.

With a single card, the slower slot is roughly 90% as quick.
8Gig per card, perhaps why 4x2.0 isn't more of a bottleneck.
Certain SATA ports might be an issue for bandwidth sharing.
But the M2 slot should be OK.

TimeSpy seems locked at 1440p, even though I have 1080p.
I don't know whats going on there, virtual super rez forced
by the app? Selected to be off (for my desktop) in Crimson.
My scores are in the high 79xx, never quite "Over 8000".

1080p capable demos like Heaven and Valley are way over
the VSync cap in all but a few places, and with eyecheese
cranked full-up. I havn't migrated Steam yet, so can't claim
a thorough survey yet of Crossfire on B350 play at 1080p.

I need to redeem my free Dooms, but will the second code
work for a friend without an RX480, or will I have to loan
him one of mine to enable that reward?

I may disagree on heat and cost, but confirm some hassle.
Plenty of screwing with settings to figure what works best.
More worked (perhaps due to current drivers) without grief
than most of the stories I've read.

In your case of crossfire R390, that might indeed run hot.
But rendering power in excess of 1080P need allows for
extreme underclock/undervolt. I see you also went for
X370, so PCIe 4x2.0 would not apply to your situation.

 

[BST4R]

All I can tell you .

I have ASRock Fatal1ty K4 AB350 Mobo + Ryzen 1700 running on 3.9 Ghz + I have 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3200Mhz ram which running atm 2933 ( waiting for more bios updates)

This B350 mobo has 9 power phases instead of the MSI Tomahawk (only 6 power phase ) or the ASUS B350 Premium ( only 6 power Phases )

I recommend the ASRock mobo You wont go wrong with it .

I use XFX RX480 with a 144Hz monitor . ( I only play 1080p if I play )

 

[KD5ZXG]

Actually, I'm now reading fine print on Asrock AB350 Pro4 and Fatal1ty. Asrock connected both NVMe and 2nd
GPU to PCIe 3.0, but using NVMe stomps on the 2nd GPU slot. "If M2_1 is occupied, PCIE4 will be disabled."
To install an NVMe along with a 2nd GPU, would have to use the slower M2_2 slot, crippled to plain old SATA.

So, thats rather different than I had assumed earlier, and totally different from how ASUS setup Prime B350+.

www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/isl9/isl95712.pdf
Your regulation is probably not "9 phase". Most likely 3 doubled up phases for the CPU, plus 3 Phases SoC.
ASUS Prime B350+ likely uses same Vreg controller, but wired for 4+2 configuration per example on Pg3.

My RX480's are also XFX, but the slightly warmer RS variety. They were open box priced too low to quibble.
XFX snap-in fan gimmick runs noisy at full-throttle. A big slow-turning case fan over the pair helps a lot.

 

[BST4R]

The answer is simple B350 mobo is not for Crossfire and SLI ... you need X370 for dual GPU

 

[KD5ZXG]

The answer is simple B350 mobo is not for Crossfire and SLI ... you need X370 for dual GPU

Probs I had assumed were B350 4x2.0 Crossfire vs SATA mostly dissapeared when I disabled HPET.
Twin RX480s now running smooth, till future applications come that can overwhelm 8G on each card.

Let Timespy check your single RX480 in the full 16X3.0 slot, I suspect you will measure about 4200.
My twin RX480's, one in the "slow" 4x2.0 slot provided by B350, together measure just over 8000.
Dual GPU should be better with 8x+8x, but certainly doesn't "need X370" to reach today's top 10%.



AMD says no SLI through B350, and I'm not debating that. But are you sure one of them SLI cables
over the top might not work??? Never used one, so don't get me to lying about it, else there will be
no end. And your case of ASRock with the 4X3.0 slot, don't bet against SLI though the Ryzen SoC.
Your B350 isn't even in the loop.

This old NV on iNTEL example of 16x+4x SLI may or not be relevant. As I said, let the lies begin!
http://www.overclock.net/t/819348/16x-16x-vs-16x-4x-gtx-470-sli-comparison

----

Granted, can't Ryzen Master without HPET until the new BIOS, AMD suggests maybe rolling soon.
Just testing latest ASUS PRIME B350+ BIOS v513 to see if it already included that improvement???
Apperently it did not. Ryzen Master complains, and still won't let me change any settings. RM hash
is the same as last time I downloaded it, so HPET fix wasn't in yesterday's RM download either.

I suspect I'm getting more out of 3.7GHz with HPET disabled than I did from 3.85GHz with HPET.
For all BIOS versions I've tried so far, CPU voltage reverts to 1.18V upon handoff to Win10, so I
can't overclock better than 3.7GHz without HPET and Ryzen Master. Have to run some benches
to be sure. Above photo from a few days ago was at 3.85GHz with HPET enabled.

 

[BST4R]

Probs I had assumed were B350 4x2.0 Crossfire vs SATA mostly dissapeared when I disabled HPET.
Twin RX480s now running smooth, till future applications come that can overwhelm 8G on each card.

Let Timespy check your single RX480 in the full 16X3.0 slot, I suspect you will measure about 4200.
My twin RX480's, one in the "slow" 4x2.0 slot provided by B350, together measure just over 8000.
Dual GPU should be better with 8x+8x, but certainly doesn't "need X370" to reach today's top 10%.

View attachment 20872

AMD says no SLI through B350, and I'm not debating that. But are you sure one of them SLI cables
over the top might not work??? Never used one, so don't get me to lying about it, else there will be
no end. And your case of ASRock with the 4X3.0 slot, don't bet against SLI though the Ryzen SoC.
Your B350 isn't even in the loop.

This old NV on iNTEL example of 16x+4x SLI may or not be relevant. As I said, let the lies begin!
http://www.overclock.net/t/819348/16x-16x-vs-16x-4x-gtx-470-sli-comparison

----

Granted, can't Ryzen Master without HPET until the new BIOS, AMD suggests maybe rolling soon.
Just testing latest ASUS PRIME B350+ BIOS v513 to see if it already included that improvement???
Apperently it did not. Ryzen Master complains, and still won't let me change any settings. RM hash
is the same as last time I downloaded it, so HPET fix wasn't in yesterday's RM download either.

I suspect I'm getting more out of 3.7GHz with HPET disabled than I did from 3.85GHz with HPET.
For all BIOS versions I've tried so far, CPU voltage reverts to 1.18V upon handoff to Win10, so I
can't overclock better than 3.7GHz without HPET and Ryzen Master. Have to run some benches
to be sure. Above photo from a few days ago was at 3.85GHz with HPET enabled.

It`s gonna run but the speed not gonna be enough to give 100% of the gpu performance ... Than why not x370 ?

+I Bought this Mobo till I can purchase Mini ITX once mobo suppliers gonna make it .
+ I will switch to Vega as well

 

[KD5ZXG]

>Than why not x370 ?

Cause B350 saved me $100 on that day.
And they were all out of gum, I mean X370.

Why 95% Crossfire on a 4x2.0 crutch?
Cause RX480 open boxes saved $100
compared to cheapest 1070 I could find.

Why Ryzen and not a well used Xeon?
Obviously I didn't do the math on that one.

 

[BST4R]

>Than why not x370 ?

Cause B350 saved me $100 on that day.
And they were all out of gum, I mean X370.

Why 95% Crossfire on a 4x2.0 crutch?
Cause RX480 open boxes saved $100
compared to cheapest 1070 I could find.

Why Ryzen and not a well used Xeon?
Obviously I didn't do the math on that one.

I have B350 as well but If I was about to use double GPU I would have gone with X370.

 

[KD5ZXG]

I have B350 as well but If I was about to use double GPU I would have gone with X370.

Not a question of X370 vs B350, but a feature of Ryzen's SoC. Need only be hardwired for 8x+8x. Damn the Southbridge.
If hardwire is just too much commitment, transform from 16x to 8x+8x can be added to any Southbridge or none for $2.
http://www.ti.com/product/hd3ss3412

I don't see why AM4 needs either chipset. SoC has four USB3 and enough PCIe 3.0 channels for 8x,8x,8x or 4x,4x,4x,4x,4x,4x.
Imagine 5GPU+1NVMe, 5GPU+2SATA, or 6GPU leaning on USB3 for a boot drive of some sort. For manufacturer, cost is $0.
Just give us general purpose PCIe slots, and let the user decide. Put NVMe, SATA, or Southbridge on an optional riser.

-------

When marketing sais no overclock with low end chipsets, I don't see how PCIe southbridge would inhibit that function.
Purely between Ryzen and the BIOS. I suspect AGESA licence is reason why we are stuck with an AMD Southbridge,
and thats probably where unlicenced functions will get the axe.

AMD marketing never gives the user a straight story. They would have us believe there are only 20 PCIe 3.0 channels.
Its clear from the way Asrock hardwired thier 4x3.0 slot, that the 4 NVMe channels are fully PCIe 3.0 capable as well.

They said fastest clock, Nope. They said most cores, Nope. They said no bug in scheduler to buy MS time to fix it.
I completely trust AMD to engineer a processor, but for mysterious reasons they can't put real specs in public view.
Go download the spec, it can't be done. I completely distrust marketing to read those spec for me, and tell anything
but distortions.



Clearly, AMD has an X370 bridge they would like to sell you.

-------

And so does Biostar, for that matter. Shopping for mini-itx?
BST4R> Bought this Mobo till I can purchase Mini ITX once mobo suppliers gonna make it.

Knowing as we do now, anyone care to explain X370 here?
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=879

I Count 6 USB 3.0, 2 USB3.1, 1 USB2.0, and 4 SATA.
Wait, isn't that less or equal what Ryzen + B350 offers???
Sneaky Biostards hid NVMe on the underside too, go figure...

 

[ronss]

the big difference between the b350 and x370 is runnng mulitople gpu cards...i sort of wonder why some b350 boards have multiple gpu slots? the b350 2 sata, 4 for x370....also , pcie -x370 8 lanes gen 2, b350 -6lanes gen 2...i would supect u might get better power phase form the x370, more bells and whitsles

 

[BioVader]

I'd get a x370 just so you have the option to overclock via the BCLK. If I was to do it again both my systems would be x370's.

 

[yergg]

Alright folks, I'm about to jump in on a Ryzen build.

I'm mostly using this for 1080p gaming, and general computing, nothing overly taxing otherwise. I know 1080p gaming isn't the Ryzen's strongpoint, but let's face it I'm an AMD fanboi running a piece of shit FX8350 at 4.6ghz and I'm just flat out ready to be done with this space heater. Also I have some faith a few updates and Ryzen will be good as gold. I'm mostly playing Overwatch at this point, and I run a 144hz freesync monitor.

OK...so here is what I need....and I'm thinking I can save a few bucks and grab the B350, but I just want to make sure I don't have any regrets.

1) Again, 1080p gaming, maybe 1440p gaming in the future.
2) Never crossfire/SLI. Too much heat, cost, and hassle.
3) Going to jump into M2 boot drive and game install drive. SATA SSDs will become "backup" drives or get slapped in other PCs.
4) I do have a PCIe sound card I plan on using.
5) I'm on HARDOCP, so of course I'm going to overclock. It seems to me like these chips have a ceiling well before the motherboard craps out, but at the same time I don't want to limit myself with the wrong chipset.
6) My AIO water cooler doesn't seem to have AM4 brackets yet (corsair h105), and I have read that the Asus X370 board will accept my AM3+ backplate...so not having to buy a new cooler puts this board on the potential "worth the extra money" list.


What would you buy with this info. B350 vs. X370? Any mobo in particular?

B350 All day long man. I'd get one that has a M2 slot in a place that isn't going to make you angry.

 

[tangoseal]

I have a 370. I will NEVER use Xfire or SLI, especially SLI since nVidia is a bunch of blowhard corporate antitrust punks. I have a 980ti and that is going to be the last card I have ever bought from them.

I am waiting on Vega to replace.

I recommend a B350 if all you want is single card setup and don't need extreme overclocking, i.e. the aboslute most stable components like the board makers using 370 chips are going to implement.

Remember it isnt that the 370 OCs better than the b series. It is just the mobo makers are going to add the highest end components to the boards that have the 370 chips if nothing more than the entice the pockets of enthusiast crowd.

I am sure you can hit 3.8-4ghz chip depending all day long on 350 chip.

 

[mvmiller12]

I have a 370. I will NEVER use Xfire or SLI, especially SLI since nVidia is a bunch of blowhard corporate antitrust punks. I have a 980ti and that is going to be the last card I have ever bought from them.

I am waiting on Vega to replace.

I recommend a B350 if all you want is single card setup and don't need extreme overclocking, i.e. the aboslute most stable components like the board makers using 370 chips are going to implement.

Remember it isnt that the 370 OCs better than the b series. It is just the mobo makers are going to add the highest end components to the boards that have the 370 chips if nothing more than the entice the pockets of enthusiast crowd.

I am sure you can hit 3.8-4ghz chip depending all day long on 350 chip.

My Asus Prime B350+ runs my 1700 at 3.8GHz, Prime 95 8 hour stable all day long. Only settings I changed to get it there were to set the CPU LLC to Extreme and the multiplier to 38. Admittedly, I AM liquid cooling the mainboard VRMs, so...

 

[KD5ZXG]

My Asus Prime B350+ runs my 1700 at 3.8GHz, Prime 95 8 hour stable all day long. Only settings I changed to get it there were to set the CPU LLC to Extreme and the multiplier to 38. Admittedly, I AM liquid cooling the mainboard VRMs, so...

On my B350+, default Spire cooler achieves 3.8G. With an undervolt to 1.2V to keep the temp from running away.
And as long as crossfire RX480's cards aren't also heating shared air. In my case, LLC Extreme was not required.
With all the other added hot airs, 3.7GHz with undervolt seems fastest that would not climb toward crash at 80C.

 

[mvmiller12]

On my B350+, default Spire cooler achieves 3.8G. With an undervolt to 1.2V to keep the temp from running away.
And as long as crossfire RX480's cards aren't also heating shared air. In my case, LLC Extreme was not required.
With all the other added hot airs, 3.7GHz with undervolt seems fastest that would not climb toward crash at 80C.

Mine's on water with stock voltage, but anything less than extreme LLC and anything over 3.8GHz (overvolting did not help) on my rig is not Prime95 stable. I don't care if it is an "edge case 'cuz nothing else does that to your CPU" if Prime95 can crash it, it ain't stable

 

[KD5ZXG]

If you insist Prime95 to find your CPU limit, enclose an old fashioned
100W lightbulb in the case, to simulate the added heat of graphics.

Water eventually relies on heat exchange with cool air. Air matters.
Aim IR gun at your CPU's regulators, might be the real concern.
Got a spare fan for that hot spot?

Also, I don't see any onboard VRM looks like real LLC. Interleaved
hard switching synchronus bucks are not LLC, so I don't know why
our BIOS would offer such a nonsense description. Yet it does...

ASUS wouldn't know to use parasitic inductance for soft switching
if it hit them in the head. You can't speed up LLC switching anyway.
LLC uses frequency vs parasitic inductance to control output voltage.
Maybe some early prototype that never went to production was LLC?

Doesn't explain what "extreme" could mean in a real LLC context.
Possibly translates to "continuous conduction" in the Buck context.

 

[mvmiller12]

If you insist Prime95 to find your CPU limit, enclose an old fashioned
100W lightbulb in the case, to simulate the added heat of graphics.

Water eventually relies on heat exchange with cool air. Air matters.
Aim IR gun at your CPU's regulators, might be the real concern.
Got a spare fan for that hot spot?

Also, I don't see any onboard VRM looks like real LLC. Interleaved
hard switching synchronus bucks are not LLC, so I don't know why
our BIOS would offer such a nonsense description. Yet it does...

ASUS wouldn't know to use parasitic inductance for soft switching
if it hit them in the head. You can't speed up LLC switching anyway.
LLC uses frequency vs parasitic inductance to control output voltage.
Maybe some early prototype that never went to production was LLC?

Doesn't explain what "extreme" could mean in a real LLC context.
Possibly translates to "continuous conduction" in the Buck context.

The video card is also water cooled, and on an entirely separate loop to itself. As to the LLC functionality - I cannot say how it works on this board vs any other. I just know that it does as I have described it.

 

[SliceT]

All I can tell you .

I have ASRock Fatal1ty K4 AB350 Mobo + Ryzen 1700 running on 3.9 Ghz + I have 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3200Mhz ram which running atm 2933 ( waiting for more bios updates)

This B350 mobo has 9 power phases instead of the MSI Tomahawk (only 6 power phase ) or the ASUS B350 Premium ( only 6 power Phases )

I recommend the ASRock mobo You wont go wrong with it .

I use XFX RX480 with a 144Hz monitor . ( I only play 1080p if I play )

Thats a really good mobo, it looks that MSI and or Asrock are the way to go for B350. The Asus lineup for B350 is the weakest of them all for VRMs.

 

[bend]

All I can tell you .
I have ASRock Fatal1ty K4 AB350 Mobo + Ryzen 1700 running on 3.9 Ghz + I have 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3200Mhz ram which running atm 2933 ( waiting for more bios updates)
This B350 mobo has 9 power phases instead of the MSI Tomahawk (only 6 power phase ) or the ASUS B350 Premium ( only 6 power Phases )
I recommend the ASRock mobo You wont go wrong with it .
I use XFX RX480 with a 144Hz monitor . ( I only play 1080p if I play )

The Asrock B350 mb's only have 3 phases for the cpu vrm instead of 6 real phases. Voltage regulation is an issue on this board probably because of less 'real' phases, one youtube user complained that the got -200mv of vdroop. The reported vdroop elsewhere for the Asrock is around 100mv which is still at least a few times higher than other manufacturers.

Theres one Asus B350 mb which doesn't have any heatsinks on the vrms which makes it weak but not because of the 4+2 vrm design.

 

[bend]

It looks like B350 have much less overclocking capabilities in the UEFI compared to x370. No bclk, llc, etc. and the VRMs are generally quite weak so overclocking 8 core cpus may not be a good idea.