Best ppD (bang) for Buck for Heat output for Power consumption

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Carnival Forces

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 9, 2003
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yeah, kind of a convoluted question, but one that i need answered by the gurus here :p

i'm starting a charity (almost done with the paperwork, phew! :rolleyes: ) for Folding@Home and i'll want to set up the most efficient farms possible.

i was thinking of just having naked systems running (individually, i'm too stupid to net-boot) with one big WC system cooling them all.

my dad's office (it's his own, he doesn't work there, so it'll be aight) gets free electricity (well, he doesn't pay for it :D) so i'll probably set up the farm in there.

so, my question is: What processor gives you the most ppD while costing the least in terms of hardware AND power (and therefore heat) consumption? So the processor that gives you the most points while costing the least to set up (including mobo etc.) while drawing the least power.

some of you may wonder "if elec. is free why care about the power?". Well, the electricity is free, but if, for example, my dad had an x-ray machine (it draws an *ass* load of power) then he would get "re-adjusted" and have to pay more for electricity. So the less power per CPU, the more CPUs i can have.

also, i like the environment. So i try to be as friendly to it as possible.

my own personal thoughts were some kind of dual CPU system since it would have two CPUs per one motherboard (this is me doing oversimplified math and assuming that would cut power costs per motherboards by two).

what do you guys think? help is appreciated! :)
 
i was wondering if anyone had any data to back claims up... i know OSUguy made an excellent Excel sheet but i can't seem to get it to display right; i'll try again on my Windnoes computer instead of the Linux box..
 
Carnival Forces said:
i was wondering if anyone had any data to back claims up... i know OSUguy made an excellent Excel sheet but i can't seem to get it to display right; i'll try again on my Windnoes computer instead of the Linux box..
Click to expand...

Yeah that would be the place to look. I will see if i can find the sheet.
 
I would go with Athlon 64s myself... A whole lot less heat than xps. Dunno bout moble xps, but for the speed, I think a64s are worth the $ over moble xps.
 
Looks like from the sheet XP-->A64-->P4. No xp-m's listed and the P-M is prohibitively expensive. That is using 89watts for the A64 so it may be overestimating it by a bit
 
i was looking at the AMD page and they said Semprons pull 67 (or was it 62?) watts! Does that mean elec. pulling or heat output?
 
Carnival Forces said:
i was looking at the AMD page and they said Semprons pull 67 (or was it 62?) watts! Does that mean elec. pulling or heat output?
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I think those are socket A semprons. The socket 754 sempron's would be pretty sweet for what you want.....and they OC well.

Edit: I was wrong. I missed those....yeah snag the 754 K8 based semprons. That looks like your sweet spot.
 
Spectre said:
Looks like from the sheet XP-->A64-->P4. No xp-m's listed and the P-M is prohibitively expensive. That is using 89watts for the A64 so it may be overestimating it by a bit
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AMD doesn't list actual power useage, but max power for that chip. I've read some reviews that seem to suggest that the FX chips consume nearly that 89 watts, and that a regular A64 is between 50 and 60 watts non-overclocked.
 
Bill Clo said:
AMD doesn't list actual power useage, but max power for that chip. I've read some reviews that seem to suggest that the FX chips consume nearly that 89 watts, and that a regular A64 is between 50 and 60 watts non-overclocked.
Click to expand...

Thanks....I am aware of that however.....that is why I said it the way I did.
 
Carnival Forces said:
are there dual sempron boards?
Click to expand...

Dual K8 sempron's no. They are not designed for SMP. Dual K7 socket A boards yes. But they take Athlon MP's or properly moded Mobile XP's or a few Porperly moded XP's. I don't think the K7 sempron's can be modded to work in them. Maybe the pin mod but I doubt it.

btw, do dual systems OC at all?

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Yes they can depends on the board.
 
depends on whether they have AGP/PCI locks, which not a lot of boards do. with the dual sempron, I assume socket A semprons will work with dual XP boards, maybe with only a BIOS update.

 
this is really weird, i'm trying to decide which Socket754 Sempron i'll use for my farm (which i will WC :eek: :D) and i'm comparing the different models (which pull 62 watts, btw)..and the 2600+ has *half* the cache of the 2500+...wtf?

which one is the best to get? i will, of course, overclock. so if it's like, the difference between a .9GHz Duron and a 1.0GHz duron (that the previous can easily OC'd to overtake the latter) then i obviously want to buy the cheaper one..

is there anyone who knows about Semprons?! :confused:

 
what's the difference, just the clock speed? i.e. should i just buy 3100+'s and OC, or is there a reason i should buy the 3300+'s and OC them instead? does one OC better?

 
and there are different processing for 3100/3300 models..like one is "90nm SOI" and the other is "130nm SOI"

what does that mean? is one better than the other? why?

 
Carnival Forces said:
what's the difference, just the clock speed? i.e. should i just buy 3100+'s and OC, or is there a reason i should buy the 3300+'s and OC them instead? does one OC better?

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I will have to go check the differences in the two again, but for your purposes only difference IIRC is clockspeed. And they both OC well.
 
hmm...even odder, the 3100's have twice the L2 Cache of the 3300's, so they have 256 instead of 128

..interesting...
 
The S754 Semprons are A64s with only a single channel memory controler active and less active L2 cache. The 3100+ is based on the Newcastle A64 core while the 3300+ is based on the Winchester core. The difference between those are Winchester is on the 90nm manufacturing while Newcastle is on the 130nm process. Smaller process = greater density of transistors = lower power consumption (historically) = lower heat output = faster possible clock speed. The 3300+ has a smaller cache but runs 200MHz faster then the 3100+. FAH doesn't really pay attention to cache size that much so I'd go with more MHz. Good example is folding on Xeons over normal P4s. At the same clock speed they perform roughly the same on folding.

Edit: Clarifying some wording.
 
[H]ugh_Freak said:
The S754 Semprons are A64s with only a single channel memory controler active and less active L2 cache. The 3100+ is based on the Newcastle A64 core while the 3300+ is based on the Winchester core. The difference between those are Winchester is on the 90nm manufacturing while Newcastle is on the 130nm process. Smaller process = greater density of transistors = lower power consumption (historically) = lower heat output = faster possible clock speed. The 3300+ has a smaller cache but runs 200MHz faster then the 3100+. FAH doesn't really pay attention to cache size that much so I'd go with more MHz. Good example is folding on Xeons over normal P4s. At the same clock speed they perform roughly the same on folding.

Edit: Clarifying some wording.
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if i can get a higher OC on 3100+ shouldn't i go with that? i guess my question is, if iget a 3100+ will i be able to OC it to a larger MHz than i would a 3300+?

and now...what motherboard.. :p

 
the 3100+ apppears to be a 9x multiplier, while the 3300+ is 10x. I'd say you'd get more out of the 3300s.
 
We are also dealing with price as an issue. The 3300+ is newer and a speed grade higher......if you can hit 3300+ or better speeds with a 3100+ then you are getting more for your money. Just a thought.

Thanks for clarifying the difference in the two I though the clockspeed was the only difference that mattered for this application.
 
To give you some perspective, I run my S754 Sempron 3000+ at 2.0 Ghz (200Mhz overclock) and I am running at about .04 V below stock 1.36V.

Lower voltage means less wattage to power the chip and less power to cool the chip (smaller, less, etc. fans).
 
X2 A64S!!! You can get twice the cores (and twice the performance!) from those, at way less than twice the cost. Or at least wait until the x2's come out and wait on the price drop. Now is a really bad time to buy computer stuff. Except for power supplies and memory, but even that stuff might drop some.

Wait on dual-core, either way.
 
If I can control my wallet, the next processors I buy will be the X2s
 
yikes! the cheapest socket 754 Sempron (AMD Sempron 3000+ Palermo 400MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model SDA3000BABOX - Retail ) on newegg is for $99.00 :eek:

damn that's expensive...maybe Socket A Semprons are the way to go...

i mean, 100 for the CPU, then a good bit for the motherboard. then as little as possible for RAM that will OC / PSU that won't die...this'll be an expensive ass box guys :(

to make this my farm box (therefore hoping i have like, many of them, 5+) would mean mucho money :(

 
Carnival Forces said:
yikes! the cheapest socket 754 Sempron (AMD Sempron 3000+ Palermo 400MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model SDA3000BABOX - Retail ) on newegg is for $99.00 :eek:
Click to expand...


well that is the one I have and I am happy with it...just dealing with some voltage/temp reading issues but when you look at what you get it has good bang for the buck

 
This had been about the "best bang for the buck" to include power consumption.
Right now that's and AMD m/b with a Sempron or a good combo with a Celeron, often available on sale with rebate for about $100 to $120..
Or jump right in with a $1K dual-core processor and a $150+m/b.
Now I'm sure that the high end system will outproduce by a factor of 4, but $500 for 4 systems leaves about $500 for electricity,

 
meh, so assuming we go with the cheapest 3100+ Sempron (the paris core) that's here: http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819104207

so 3100+ Paris Sempron: 109.00

i was looking at one of these two motherboards:
MSI K8M800-CE Socket 754 VIA K8M800 Micro ATX http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130494#DetailSpecs

EPoX EP-8HMMI-A Socket 754 VIA K8M800 ATX
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813123240#DetailSpecs

but i can't find an answer as to which one has AGP/PCI lock / doesn't have it and if one is better than the other...

EDIT: so the MSI board is 67.00 and the Epox is 64.00 ...so far total cost is $176.00 or $173.00..well that's not too bad, but we still have to get RAM and a PSU (both of these boards have onboard NIC/Video :D)

 
okay, so i've configured a system around the sempron. some of the components (PSU?) are a bit sketch, so i'd appreciate people looking over it.


$26.00 SAPPHIRE 100949L Radeon 7000 32MB DDR AGP 2X/4X Video Card http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102437

$15.00 Generic CD Drive: http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=0-N82E16827101406

$12.49 Kingmax 128.00MB Flash Drive (USB) (kinda sketch, but it's a flash drive...) http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=0-N82E16820155208

$35.98 2x Rosewill 256MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820223008

$67.00 MSI K8M800-CE
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=0-N82E16813130494

$20.00 (here's the uber-sketch one, kindof) RFSP Group (Fortron Source) ATX300GU ATX 300W PSU
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104988

$109.00 AMD Sempron 3100+ Paris 800MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model SDA3100AIP3AX
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=0-N82E16819104207

total cost: $285.47 w/o s&h



edited because my first link didn't work

 
I'd go with more RAM to do bigger WUs. 512 MB at least and PC3200 for an overclock. Tiger Direct had some PC 3200 for $20 after rebate, but that deal ended yesterday. Shopping around and watching the hot deals and FS/FT forums may help. And don't cheap out on memory and power supply - they are the most overlooked components and affect stability to a great extent. I wouldn't spend any less than $30 on a power supply and would honestly look in the $40-50 range. The FS/FT forums might be a good place to look for people selling PSUs.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that cpu runs at a 200mhz FSB (I think the 800mhz that newegg refers to is the HTT frequency)

You have DDR266 ram, that runs @ 133Mhz FSB. With that ram, you cant even run stock speeds (unless you plan on using mem divider, which you didnt mention)

Muskin is great ram, you might want to increase the speed on it if you want decent performance. For the powersupply, the brand is not listed as an 'avoid' brand in the PSU forum, but a highly recommended brand is available for only a few dollars more:

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104988



 
DaSmurf said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that cpu runs at a 200mhz FSB (I think the 800mhz that newegg refers to is the HTT frequency)

You have DDR266 ram, that runs @ 133Mhz FSB. With that ram, you cant even run stock speeds (unless you plan on using mem divider, which you didnt mention)

Muskin is great ram, you might want to increase the speed on it if you want decent performance. For the powersupply, the brand is not listed as an 'avoid' brand in the PSU forum, but a highly recommended brand is available for only a few dollars more:

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104988

ahhah, good point, post edited.



Click to expand...
 
Fenris_Ulf said:
I'd go with more RAM to do bigger WUs. 512 MB at least and PC3200 for an overclock. Tiger Direct had some PC 3200 for $20 after rebate, but that deal ended yesterday. Shopping around and watching the hot deals and FS/FT forums may help. And don't cheap out on memory and power supply - they are the most overlooked components and affect stability to a great extent. I wouldn't spend any less than $30 on a power supply and would honestly look in the $40-50 range. The FS/FT forums might be a good place to look for people selling PSUs.
Click to expand...
i'll look into getting better RAM, thanks for the head's up. it's stupid people like me who misconfigure their builds :eek:

 
Carnival Forces said:
the people in OC&C over here are telling me that a motherboard with integrated video will not OC. is this true?

the guy recommends switching my motheboard to EPoX EP-8KDA3J Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 and getting a cheap AGP card to "OC the hell" out of

what do you guys think? can integrated video OC?

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Typically there is very little you can OC a board with integrated video. Now someone is sure to come along and point ot the one board that can....cue that person.....right.....now.....

Anyway, just get some cheap as vid cards from the parts swap thread or FS/FT.
 
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