Hallucinator
Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2006
- Messages
- 562
Until the day it becomes self aware.
Until the day it gets its own soul.
Which - thankfully - will never happen.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Until the day it becomes self aware.
I'm guessing the honest answer is people can fight for increasingly disappearing jobs or they can starve. The nice version of that is I don't know, bootstraps? Considering how we're the richest country in the world and are capable of whatever we put our minds to, some would see that as a shitty solution. I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the options the way you seem to be presenting them.Do you want the NICE answer? Or do you want the HONEST answer?
Warning. Nobody EVER wants the HONEST answer. And if they say they do, they're still secretly hoping for the NICE one.
Uh, what? So if there's no rule of law and a gang decides to invade a home and take everything they have, now that's not anarchy? What would you call a state where there's no government, no authority, everybody does their own thing, which INCLUDES plenty of people imposing their will on others, in a small scale semi-chaotic fashion?Chas said:Of course, the second someone else imposes their will on someone else, you no longer have anarchy.
Yes you're right, unfortunately I have to add, as mob rule is actually worse than everyone doing their own thing. Mob rule gets us witch hunts.Incorrect. It's mob rule. It's a giant popularity contest.
In an anarchy, everyone just goes off and does their own thing. Simple lack of a centralized controlling body.
Of course, the second someone else imposes their will on someone else, you no longer have anarchy.
You can't dismiss something based on one bad example. Like the example of the US, where politics is basically an extension of the corporate elite.No, I'm talking about social programs, healthcare, welfare, etc.
Every time they start involving themselves, we wind up with atrocities like the VA, The "Affordable" Care Act, Social Security...need I go on?
I know you meant that as a joke, but that's actually not far off from how we should treat robots / automation. Make them work for us and not instead of us.Well what if in the future when everyone owns a robot, you the owner is recieving the salary the robot is making. Then you can slouch at home all day long.
I know you meant that as a joke, but that's actually not far off from how we should treat robots / automation. Make them work for us and not instead of us.
Automation is just a small piece in a larger globalization puzzle...you use the skills of a tiny minority (those who design/build the machines) to allow the vast majority to be put to work with little training or skills. And the lie proposed is that with it all, people will be able to pursue other interests; arts, new inventions, self improvement. But those same social safety nets are pulled down by their inherit nature. You end up supporting the dead weight of the population, who then brings everyone down with them.
(insert rant)
People like Bill Gates go to third world countries and ask themselves "these poor people, we must get their quality of life up to some standard ... no matter the cost" then watch in amazement as every bit of their resources results in the same conditions but more mouths to feed. The rest of us plebs are now being told we should also shoulder the costs, we should take in these wonderful people, again, no matter the cost. And please, don't have kids 1st worlders, there's already enough population in the world... Which is of course genius, we should absolutely stop reproducing the genetic lines that created everything that society stands on and totally keep pushing the ones that never have. You hear it enough, whether in some heart-tugging video, an article from some xyz-studies professor in CA (someone who benefits the most from the systems created by their ancestor's achievements) and some of the crazier mindsets don't seem so crazy.
Bill (+Melinda) Gates' vision is either A. a short sighted one with catastrophic consequences for the world population B. a very purposeful one aimed at widening the gap between the haves and have-nots; not only in resources but in genetic fitness as well.
Until the day it gets its own soul.
Which - thankfully - will never happen.
But a social experiment nonetheless. The concept of universal human equality was not the norm at the time and is something that we still struggle with today.
I'm guessing the honest answer is people can fight for increasingly disappearing jobs or they can starve. The nice version of that is I don't know, bootstraps? Considering how we're the richest country in the world and are capable of whatever we put our minds to, some would see that as a shitty solution. I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the options the way you seem to be presenting them.
With government involvement = more bloat, more incompetence, more power taken away from people, but the POTENTIAL for many people not to starve
No government involvement = dwindling jobs, dwindling pay + rights, people starve
Gee, I think I'll take the flawed solution over no solution at all. I think that's where we differ.
Uh, what? So if there's no rule of law and a gang decides to invade a home and take everything they have, now that's not anarchy? What would you call a state where there's no government, no authority, everybody does their own thing, which INCLUDES plenty of people imposing their will on others, in a small scale semi-chaotic fashion?
You can't dismiss something based on one bad example.
Welfare and social security worked damn well in western europe until "some idiot" invited in a ton of economic migrants many of whom refuses to integrate.
I'm wondering if we're looking at the same problem. You're talking as though if everyone gets off their ass and hustles, the problem is solved. That's not the scenario we're looking at. We're talking about a scenario where there's simply not enough jobs for every able-bodied and willing person. How lazy someone is irrelevant so long as there are enough non-lazy people willing to work that still saturate the market. I appreciate how you don't want the government involved, however you're not proposing an alternative other than starvation. You seem to be setting up the logical premise that our only options are starvation or government intervention, so you think starvation is the appropriate course. It's like you're anti-solution. I'm not pro-government, I'm pro solution. If government intervention is the only chance of a solution (a premise you seem to be framing), then I'm for government intervention in this scenario.Sorry, but if it comes down to having my rights stripped, I'll fucking starve or find a way to actually earn a living.
The problem is, nowadays, people don't immediately get that corner office and get paid to browse porn all day on company time while banging 10's. So they give up. That's what I see.
The job market needs to evolve.
The government does NOT need to come in and start doing Universal Welfare Hand-Outs.
A gang of people taking something from another is not a form of government. They don't make laws, they don't make policy, they don't govern. It's just some bandits taking shit.No, because the second a person or group begins imposing their own order/will on any others, it ceases being anarchy and becomes an actual form of government.
Note: Not necessarily a *GOOD* form of government (tyranny and kleptocracy seldom are).
I am all for the Star Trek. What's not to like about having all these opportunities
Except human nature doesn't work like Star Trek.
Eugenics much?
ONE bad example? I gave you SEVERAL of the most prominent boondoggles.
How many more have to be pointed out before people realize that the government is REALLY shitty at social programs?
And how many people DIE in the mean time?
Correct the human species is still too juvenile for this to happen.
People are shitty at everything, face it. Corporations continually trim costs and maximize profit, have massive influence on the government (making them shittier). People are so stuck in their mindset they can't see past their nose. Governments do a great job organizing this massive shit fest into something that for the most part works, but ultimately are just as flawed as the rest of us.
You also seem to completely miss the problem, or are so arrogant as to think that somehow it won't affect you and yours. This coming AI automation is going to be unlike anything we have ever seen. White collar, blue collar and government jobs are all going to be dramatically impacted. Large and medium corporations will be able to run with a minimal human work force, while population is expanding.
I certainly do.Gates believes in global eugenics.
Correct the human species is still too juvenile for this to happen.
Yeah, when we finally reach population thresholds we're totally going to worry about making sure the dumbest, laziest, and most violent still breed. The things we have a benefit of discussing today will be settled by necessity in the future. You can reach towards solving the problem now and feel bad about it... or you can let shithole countries balloon to a few more billion only to eventually leave your kids/grandkids to experience some large scale wars + famine, all because you didn't wanna feel like a bad guy today.