Bill Would Grant President Unprecedented Cyber-Security Powers

[Manaknight]

Bilderberg is the name of the group you're looking for
There's been video taped evidence of high power people (Queen of England among them) meeting behind closed doors in PRIVATE MEETINGS. That right there is a direct violation of law (policy cannot be issued and dictated in private) yet it still gets done.

i know

bilderberg, Trilateral Commission, CFR. But if you start slinging those names around here you get called a conspiracy theorist so i tried to generalize. Regardless it's true.

 

[earnolmartin]

I'm disgusted. How far are we going to let them push us?

 

[Manaknight]

Precisely.


Want proof?
The bailout bill. 1200 pages (I think, don't remember), and from the time it was assembled to the time they voted was 10 hours. That was overnight as well. So can anyone tell me how any Congressman both slept AND read and comprehended a 1200 page bill?
Fact of the matter is not a single freaking member of congress read it. Instead, the Democrats just voted along party lines and passed the biggest piece of pork and wasteful spending this country has seen.

That's how jacked up our political system is at this point.

you also forget the threats of marshal law if they voted the bill down. There is videos of members of congress upset over this. But yes not only were they given no time for something so important, they were also threatened

"pass this or else" doesn't sound like the america we've had shoved up our ass since gradeschool now does it?

I want my republic back ....or at least anarchy

 

[TechieSooner]

i know

bilderberg, Trilateral Commission, CFR. But if you start slinging those names around here you get called a conspiracy theorist so i tried to generalize. Regardless it's true.

Well, I can care less what it's called honestly. I do believe there are high power and money people that have very strong influence in what gets done.

As for the US engineering the attacks on 9/11 and all that conspiracy nonsense, I don't buy into it. But the fact that high power people outside of Congress having influence on what goes on? Yes, very much so.

you also forget the threats of marshal law if they voted the bill down. There is videos of members of congress upset over this. But yes not only were they given no time for something so important, they were also threatened

"pass this or else" doesn't sound like the america we've had shoved up our ass since gradeschool now does it?

"Pass this or else"... They pushed that thing through Congress so fast I don't think anyone involved knew what was in it.
Yet as fast as it got pushed through, Obama sat on it what, 3 days? Suddenly it wasn't important


I'm telling you.... This administration is a freaking joke. Naive American people bought the bullshit Obama fed them, and now we'll pay the price over four years.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the "rich get richer" Republican party with business doing well than the "everybody equal" Democratic bullshit we have now.

 

[heatlesssun]

For those that think Obama is dangerous and will lead the nation and the world to destruction, you may be correct. That said, this nation is over 230 years old, has had 43 other Presidents, has faced many different challenges in the past and overall this is a peacful and prosperous nation.

Sure this nation is no paradise and what he have may be at risk because of Obama, but singling him out has the harbinger of destruction out of 43 others and after 230 years will lead certain others to believe that maybe people with this message are the conspirators.

Fortunately we still live in a free soiciety and people are allowed to speak their minds for the most part. Maybe Obama will be the end of that. Just don't forget that the world and this nation began before Janunary 20, 2009 and I'm willing to take a bet that both will be around after 2017.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that there's always one around the corner.

 

[Righty]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the "rich get richer" Republican party with business doing well than the "everybody equal" Democratic bullshit we have now.

Yup, ill take trickle down over tax everyone until they are the same anyday. Hes an idiot and the dems are no longer the working class party. They have been suckered.

 

[knothead34]

fuck that. dont touch my internet. have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yup, ill take trickle down over tax everyone until they are the same anyday. Hes an idiot and the dems are no longer the working class party. They have been suckered.

So Bill Gates is going to be taxed so much that he's going to be just like me? Uh, I don't think so. Last time I checked, most families making under $250k/year are supposed to be getting federal tax cut. Above that the rates are just going back before the 2001 tax cuts, like in the 90's when things were a lot better than now.

Obama and the Democrats may be horrible but at least for now I think the tax stories that are getting circulated around are a bit out of whack. The big tax issue with Obama's budget really comes in the form of the greenhouse gas cap and trade provision, which for now is off the table because that would be a HUGE tax increase and would likely get anyone who votes for it a ticket home.

 

[heatlesssun]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- Benjamin Franklin

The only problem with this thought is that is that they didn't have biological or nuclear weapons in Ben's day. I don't disagree with this statement but it doesn't reflect the dangers of the modern world either.

 

[Lebowski]

Any President is going to want more power, not less, including Obama. I understand that the White House crafted the bill. More point was that I don't see this getting to far in the House as it stands.

When it comes to foreign policy and national security, most Presidents aren't all that different from one another. Obama might be even more draconian than McCain would have been in some ways.

I don't like the bill, but when you're President of the United States, espcially after 9/11, you're going to want all the tools that you think you need to keep the country safe. Sure there's over reaching but if you don't do something that you could have and then shit happends, guess what?

That's a load of shit. He doesn't want to keep the country safe, otherwise they wouldn't be releasing terrorists from Guantanamo in the United States.
This is another power grab by the current regime and We're only a few months in and every freaking day we hear about new sweeping laws that completely piss on the Constitution and the followers of the Messiah prove their blind devotion by not accepting the facts that Obama has already proven to be 10x worse for the United States than W. He's already said they won't accept money from banks paying back TARP money because if they pay it back, the government can't control it. Obama, and whoever is driving him want complete control over the United States. I fully expect this year that someone will try to get the term limit upped or removed completely.

 

[heatlesssun]

Obama, and whoever is driving him want complete control over the United States. I fully expect this year that someone will try to get the term limit upped or removed completely.

That would take a Consitutional amendment and those are hard to get through no matter the issue. If Obama is President of the United States after January 2017 I'll give you eveything I own. Seriously. I'm not joking.

I have a lot of conservative friends and none of them like Obama. In fact everyday they tell me that the world is in mortal danger while he is in office. Is that really the case or do they percieve him as a threat to themselves?

I think that most people are just drained emotionally these days, I know that I am. Maybe everything you're saying is true, but I've all out of fear I'm afraid. I think a lot of people are.

 

[Manaknight]

The only problem with this thought is that is that they didn't have biological or nuclear weapons in Ben's day. I don't disagree with this statement but it doesn't reflect the dangers of the modern world either.

i can't agree there...

the term stands the test of time.

frankly... it's a ripple effect. Sure there were no bio or nukes back then...but we wouldn't really have to worry about them if we didn't run around the world like its our personal fucking playground. Don't but into that "they hate our freedoms shit"

first...we aren't free don't let anyone tell you otherwise...yes other countries are worse and we could be worse off. it's simply the fact that we tout freedom like its the be all end all, and they actually get people to believe they are free even as they tighten the ropes.

second... they don't hate our freedoms, they hate us dicking around in their affairs. I'd be pissed too if you came to my house and told me how to do things or try to make deals with me that only benefit you...then threaten force when i tell you to take a hike.


that goes for any first second or third world countries we have pissed off....

if we minded our own goddamn business this country wouldn't be heading downhill and we wouldn't have to worry about such extreme security measures. I'm not saying to be an isolationist...but there are obviously things we do that we don't need to and most certainly should not be doing.

so yeah I think it still applies today

 

[heatlesssun]

i can't agree there...

the term stands the test of time.

frankly... it's a ripple effect. Sure there were no bio or nukes back then...but we wouldn't really have to worry about them if we didn't run around the world like its our personal fucking playground. Don't but into that "they hate our freedoms shit"

first...we aren't free don't let anyone tell you otherwise...yes other countries are worse and we could be worse off. it's simply the fact that we tout freedom like its the be all end all, and they actually get people to believe they are free even as they tighten the ropes.

second... they don't hate our freedoms, they hate us dicking around in their affairs. I'd be pissed too if you came to my house and told me how to do things or try to make deals with me that only benefit you...then threaten force when i tell you to take a hike.


that goes for any first second or third world countries we have pissed off....

if we minded our own goddamn business this country wouldn't be heading downhill and we wouldn't have to worry about such extreme security measures. I'm not saying to be an isolationist...but there are obviously things we do that we don't need to and most certainly should not be doing.

so yeah I think it still applies today

I am far from the first person to think that the boogy man is under every rock. But there is evil in the world, and by evil I mean people who can't be reasoned with and are willing to kill no matter the cost. I don't disagree that the powers that be medel in affairs that they don't need to, but even if they didn't some people would stil be hell bent on killing. That's life in the world we live.

As far a freedom, I think that many are too quick to point at intisituions like government and say they are taking away freedoms in relatively free societies like the US and missing the other side of freedom, resposiblity.

Maybe I've lived some sort of privledged life or something, but the things that have done me the most harm in life, the things that have limited my freedom if you will, are the things I've done to myself. I'm not saying that government in the US doesn't over reach at times, it does. But when I think of regrets in my life, I tend to see the mistakes that I made, the choices I should have made, the effort I didn't make, those types of things. Government has never entered in the equation.

Most people that I know are either doing well or not by the choices they made as individuals, not because of government. My belief is that personal resposiblity has a lot more to do with how free an individual than government for the vast majority of people in the US and most other democracies at any rate.

 

[UrielDagda]

I'd like to read the bill myself, instead of relying on an article that looks at a quote and then assumes the worst then prints it as fact.

From what I did read it seems that they are trying to provide a way to secure networks in case of attacks, providing the ability to legally isolate coordinated zombified computers that are executing massive DDOSs, for instance.

The bad thing might be the broad language-- a devil in the detail of almost ALL legislation. Instead of people just going into mouth foaming spasms, it would probably be more constructive to demand from your congressman to go through another round to specify much tighter parameters.

Excessive broadness in legislation is a very old disease that permeates our entire legal system. Yeah, it's more of the same. We should all go and specifically voice our opinion about this legislation (respectfully). Who knows, maybe we can get Obama to start reading HardForum before crafting new internet policies.

 

[UrielDagda]

Obama and the Democrats may be horrible but at least for now I think the tax stories that are getting circulated around are a bit out of whack. The big tax issue with Obama's budget really comes in the form of the greenhouse gas cap and trade provision, which for now is off the table because that would be a HUGE tax increase and would likely get anyone who votes for it a ticket home.

I don't see how the republican ideas are any better.. In fact they are much worse. They want to lower the taxes on the rich greatly, and actually raise the taxes for the poorest. Their idea for the environmental issue is to either do nothing, or just impose tax on people directly on their energy bills, instead of taxing the companies themselves through cap and trade. Their solution for Medicare is to throw the disabled people under 55 off of Medicare and force them to find private insurance while giving them $150/mo for it.

So their ideas are just completely unrealistic. But it's ALL unrealistic, in my opinion, because we've had a national debt building up since 1980, and no class of citizen will ever vote for anybody that would be willing to take the steps to eliminate it-- which will require accepting higher taxes for a fair amount of time-- primarily on the wealthier people! Even an across-the-board increase would wind up working out that way.

But anybody that proposed a "reduce the national debt" tax, wouldn't ever even make it to a primary, much less elected.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'd like to read the bill myself, instead of relying on an article that looks at a quote and then assumes the worst then prints it as fact.

From what I did read it seems that they are trying to provide a way to secure networks in case of attacks, providing the ability to legally isolate coordinated zombified computers that are executing massive DDOSs, for instance.

The bad thing might be the broad language-- a devil in the detail of almost ALL legislation. Instead of people just going into mouth foaming spasms, it would probably be more constructive to demand from your congressman to go through another round to specify much tighter parameters.

Excessive broadness in legislation is a very old disease that permeates our entire legal system. Yeah, it's more of the same. We should all go and specifically voice our opinion about this legislation (respectfully). Who knows, maybe we can get Obama to start reading HardForum before crafting new internet policies.

No, reason is just the government trying to control you. Only through hype and fear can we be free of the tyrany of Obama. He wants to control the Internet that Al Gore invented.

 

[UrielDagda]

No, reason is just the government trying to control you. Only through hype and fear can we be free of the tyrany of Obama. He wants to control the Internet that Al Gore invented.

AHHHHH! The gubment is after me!! Al Gore is gonna eat me!

*runs around in circles masturbating furiously in fear*

 

[TechieSooner]

Just don't forget that the world and this nation began before Janunary 20, 2009 and I'm willing to take a bet that both will be around after 2017.

Sorry, but this bill originated, was designed, and if passed, will be passed during his presidency. Nobody else to blame but Obama and the Democratic party.

So Bill Gates is going to be taxed so much that he's going to be just like me? Uh, I don't think so. Last time I checked, most families making under $250k/year are supposed to be getting federal tax cut.

Here's the problem...
Obama has spent a shitload of money. What are the bailout bills up to, like 10 Trillion in total costs? That tops any other president. He wants to give everyone a tax break too.

Now, what kind of sense does that make? He wants to cut taxes AND spend more money. It won't work. Defies logic.

He is NOT going to get that money from the rich, either. I'll be the first to tell you that the richer a person is, the more clever ways they find to hide their money.
Same for businesses. What business wants to expand and grow, when they know they'll get taxed into the ground because of it?

He's putting a tax on doing well. You do poorly, you get Federal help. You do well, you get tax raped.
That goes completely against what built this country: consumerism.

The only problem with this thought is that is that they didn't have biological or nuclear weapons in Ben's day. I don't disagree with this statement but it doesn't reflect the dangers of the modern world either.

Sure they did. They had bacteria infections and stuff used against each other back then. They just didn't have nukes and technology to do it on a huge mass scale, though.

If anything, I'd say the times have gotten BETTER with more advanced technology.
Look at the Roman empire or any other numerous empires back through history. A single battle might have hundreds of thousands dead.
Today, 15 soldiers die and it gets on the news. If anything, war is better.

Yesterday we kit each other with arrows. Now it's just more efficient bullets. The human mind is still the same.

We're only a few months in and every freaking day we hear about new sweeping laws that completely piss on the Constitution.

I fully expect this year that someone will try to get the term limit upped or removed completely.

I just hope you're wrong, to be honest. I think if it gets to that bad, the country will revolt.
The powers that be are complete morons if they don't think it'll happen. Revolutionary War, they've never heard of?

That would take a Consitutional amendment and those are hard to get through no matter the issue.

No, it's really not.

Obama got that Congressional body to pass a record spending bill WITHOUT EVEN READING THE DAMNED THING.
How hard could it be to convince them to amend the constitution?

 

[Azhar]

QFT! The American political party system is for stupid people. In fact, not one of my friends whom I consider relatively intelligent identifies with a political party. They are for stupid people.

lol the other day I was telling a friend that American politics eerily resembles "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC".

People blindly follow their own party despite the fact that they're no different, and everyone defends their party no matter how silly it sounds.

Oh yeah, I'm a PC.

 

[w1retap]

Your savior messiah that you jizzed over for the whole election cycle is a tyrant. Play it off and make little jokes some more; it's working. Everything will get better if you ignore it. Obama is the closest thing we've seen to Adolf Hilter. He's taking control private industry, calling for brownshirt initiatives, has the media in his hands that feed into every single piece of propaganda he has put forth thus far, calling for FEMA camps to be built around the country, calling for US military police to "keep peace" on American civilian populations (already happened in Alabama), advocating legislation to ban everything from handguns to assault weapons to airsoft guns, calling for mandatory service to the country, calling for children to go door to door to collect information on neighbors for his G.I.V.E. initiative, submitting to one world government at the G20 which overrides our US Constitution, etc, etc, etc.

I swear, you've got a serious mental problem if you can't see what's going on.

 

[w1retap]

Here's the problem...
Obama has spent a shitload of money. What are the bailout bills up to, like 10 Trillion in total costs? That tops any other president. He wants to give everyone a tax break too.

$12.8 trillion... and climbing.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=armOzfkwtCA4&refer=home

 

[heatlesssun]

Well, I can care less what it's called honestly. I do believe there are high power and money people that have very strong influence in what gets done.

As for the US engineering the attacks on 9/11 and all that conspiracy nonsense, I don't buy into it. But the fact that high power people outside of Congress having influence on what goes on? Yes, very much so.



"Pass this or else"... They pushed that thing through Congress so fast I don't think anyone involved knew what was in it.
Yet as fast as it got pushed through, Obama sat on it what, 3 days? Suddenly it wasn't important


I'm telling you.... This administration is a freaking joke. Naive American people bought the bullshit Obama fed them, and now we'll pay the price over four years.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the "rich get richer" Republican party with business doing well than the "everybody equal" Democratic bullshit we have now.

Sure spending is a problem. Did you look at the Republican alternative to Obama's budget? It too runs deficits forever, albeit at only about half the level. Still not what I'd call a great plan. And let's face it, these budget predictions are just SWAGS at best, at this point in Bush's Presidency 8 years ago, he was looking at budget surpluses and we know how that worked out. A doubling of the deficit over his Presidency. So to be honest, when it comes to spending, ain't nobody done anything in a while.

BTW, Congress can only propose Constitutional amendments, it can't ratify them. That takes 3/4th's of the states. Obama WILL NOT be President Of the United States after January 2017 and possibly not after January 2013. Heaping unsubstantiated hype on top of unsubstantiated hype isn't going to serve well the cause of those who do not like this administration.

 

[Technoob]

You know, you can spy on me, tap my phone calls and all that other jazz, but you better stay the hell away from my internet (its serious business).

Obama is bush 2.0. FISA, now he wants to go even further. If "bushitler" was doing this the left would be freaking out. It's not fascism when we do it though is apparently the obama mantra.

 

[hstuehmeyer2000]

I swear, you've got a serious mental problem if you can't see what's going on.

It is just like everything else, people don't see the big picture. Then when you tell them what it is they just don't believe it.

 

[J32P]

It is just like everything else, people don't see the big picture. Then when you tell them what it is they just don't believe it.

+1 Hell yeah, I'll get an aneurysm trying to explain some basic truth to people.

 

[TechieSooner]

Sure spending is a problem. Did you look at the Republican alternative to Obama's budget? It too runs deficits forever, albeit at only about half the level. Still not what I'd call a great plan. And let's face it, these budget predictions are just SWAGS at best, at this point in Bush's Presidency 8 years ago, he was looking at budget surpluses and we know how that worked out. A doubling of the deficit over his Presidency.

See, instead of facing the freaking facts that your Messiah is even WORSE, all these blind followers do is point back to Bush and say "He wasn't so great", while ignoring the truth that Obama is worse.

I'd like you to explain that 12 Trillion dollars of Obama's. It's not speculation at all. It's the running cost of those bills. Even before Obama was elected, the AP (some smaller sources) were running stories on how he would hit 8 Trillion.

Bush was bad with what was it, 3 Trillion??? Get a grip on reality. Obama is spending this country into the ground.

He's taking control private industry, calling for brownshirt initiatives, has the media in his hands that feed into every single piece of propaganda he has put forth thus far, calling for FEMA camps to be built around the country, calling for US military police to "keep peace" on American civilian populations (already happened in Alabama), advocating legislation to ban everything from handguns to assault weapons to airsoft guns, calling for mandatory service to the country, calling for children to go door to door to collect information on neighbors for his G.I.V.E. initiative, submitting to one world government at the G20 which overrides our US Constitution, etc, etc, etc.

I swear, you've got a serious mental problem if you can't see what's going on.

QFT on all that. Every single thing listed in that quote is something the federal government should stay the hell out of.




Fact of the matter is all the Obama fanatics are so deep into the lie they've got no choice but to keep supporting this guy.
I'd almost venture to say if we held elections this November again, he'd already be out the door.

 

[w1retap]

I knew it would get bad when during the election primaries he had teams of lawyers and "truth brigades" allied with public law enforcement to go out and combat anyone speaking out against him. Honestly, nothing the guy has done is surprising yet. It's all what I expected, and it's not even the first 100 days in office yet. We've got a longgggg way to go from here. I suspect the violence level in the country will be increasing over the next 3.x years, and government will grow, and spending will grow, and even more freedoms will be stripped from law abiding citizens. It's going to start with internet and broadcast media, then escalate from there. Companies are going to be forced into submitting themselves to the government through cap and trade caused bankruptcy, and employees are going to see salary caps. We're going to have a transfer of wealth in this country to foreign soil larger than anything we've seen in history. Hell.. half of it has already begun/happened or is in Congress at the moment. The first two years are critical for his agenda, because he's practically got everything in place to move whatever legislation he wants.

 

[Gorankar]

Obama is good for you Republicans. He is most likely going to had over the senate, house and even the presidency with in the next 4-6 years. That is only a slightly better fate imho.
I do get tired of only being able voting for the lesser evil. If only the press would focus some on the true libertarians and constitutionalists that were not anarchist wack jobs. Those wack jobs do tend to get better network ratings so that is not going to happen.

 

[Gorankar]

Obama is good for you Republicans. He is most likely going to had over the senate, house and even the presidency with in the next 4-6 years. That is only a slightly better fate imho.
I do get tired of only being able to vote for the lesser evil. If only the press would focus some on the true libertarians and constitutionalists that were not anarchist wack jobs. Those wack jobs do tend to get better network ratings so that is not going to happen.

fixed

 

[heatlesssun]

I'd almost venture to say if we held elections this November again, he'd already be out the door.

Really? Vs. John McCain? Perhaps, but most of the people that didn't vote for him in November are pretty much the same people who are saying that he is evil incarnate now. At least among the people I talk to about politics no one I know has switched sides. Just my own experience.

I'll keep saying it, the more people vilify him the stronger he is going to get. Its perfectly fine and proper for the opposition to state their concerns, but when I hear things like comparisons to Hitler and that in two months he already destroyed a nearly 250 old nation, I have to stand back and ask, are these legitimate concerns or is there something else going on here? It would be naive to think that everyone that hates Obama has only the best interests of nation in mind. I have to agree with conspiracy theorists on this one, there's multiple and unspoken agendas going on here.

Turning someone into Satan can often have unintended consequences.

 

[Technoob]

Turning someone into Satan can often have unintended consequences.

Yes, with how the left turned Bush ( I didn't vote for him ) into satan incarnate and said everything he did was the second coming of the third reich, it's going to be a bit...awkward...when Obama's administration carries on all of those same policies.

Fuck all the politicians.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yes, with how the left turned Bush ( I didn't vote for him ) into satan incarnate and said everything he did was the second coming of the third reich, it's going to be a bit...awkward...when Obama's administration carries on all of those same policies.

Fuck all the politicians.

True, both the left and the right have gotten into vilifying each other to the point of absurdity. But what really concerns me is that we have become a nation of cynics. Very few people I talk to seem to be truly analytical, they simply have their beliefs, a few facts and they have it all figured out. Seems to never occur to them if it were that simple it would have already been done.

We live in a complex world, with many different opinions and beliefs and somehow if I don't believe what you say, I'm naive or stupid or on welfare or the government dole or an idiot or a hate monger or socialist or pick your name. And of course if someone does when an election that I don't believe it was because it was rigged or something.

Its all "I don't like idea that so you must be Satan!" We'll actually probably not. I think that most people at some level understand that the idea of legitimate differences of opinion. Life has always been a story about shades of grey.

 

[LAiN_OfTheWired]

If this actually gets passed (crazy talk), I'm jumping ship and asking my company to find me a spot in our UK office. I'd absolutely love killing a good number of birds with one stone (faster mainstream broadband, no kooky laws, back in my homeland, no impending socialism...)

 

[Technoob]

If this actually gets passed (crazy talk), I'm jumping ship and asking my company to find me a spot in our UK office. I'd absolutely love killing a good number of birds with one stone (faster mainstream broadband, no kooky laws, back in my homeland, no impending socialism...)

In the UK? lol The US is taking some odd turns, but the nanny state controlling fascist thought police tendencies are orders of magnitude greater in the UK than the US.

 

[heatlesssun]

Here's a link to the bill: http://cdt.org/security/CYBERSEC4.pdf

After skimming through it a few times I don't believe that its as draconian as its being made out to be. Sure there are some troubling aspects to it in regards to the power of the executive and data privacy but I think that this is a real issue.

Can anyone tell me what the response would be to a real cyber attack and what laws and authority currently exists to defend against them? And guess what, when someone pulls of a powerful cyber attack, its probably going to happen one day, and people's bank accounts get hacked and things like that happen and there was no effective response, guess what's going to happen, people are going to scream bloody murder that there weren't better protections.

This is draft bill, it'll never pass in this form, but I think to say that its not addressing a real issue is naive in the most extreme.

 

[xX_Jack_Carver_Xx]

Just to be clear on the debt... the National Debt:

It was... $10.4 TRILLION plus $1.6 TRILLION (fiscal 2009 aka Bush) Deficit plus $2.8 TRILLION Social Security trust fund (all TBills owed to the SS Admin) which totals...

$14.8 TRILLION on Inaugeration Day Jan 20th 2009.

So lets just start with the facts. Now the stimulus and the FY2010 deficit will add another $1.8 TRILLION at least.

I cracked up watching Sen Jagoff Gregg on Tee Vee with a poster saying the debt was $5.8 TRILLION, noone in the Senate corrected him, and noone in the press corrected him, even though they put him on the air spewing utter abosolute BALD FACE LIES.

Those people can't tell the truth about the time or day or whether the sun is out, let alone something serious or meaningful.

Obama's failure so far is that of being a pussy. He should take the cash money needed to fix this mess right out of the hides of the upper 1%, especially the top 1/10th of 1%.

Just incase any of you dipshits reading this that take offense to taxing the wealthy... YOU aren't one of them. You may delude yourselves with the "If'n I ever get rich, I don't wanna be taxed up the ass." rationlization, but if you do, you are suckers. Sold a bill of goods, and you wont EVER be getting rich because as you have seen on Wallstreet, the game is rigged to rob you blind to feed the never ending appetite of the FilthyRich (tm) for more and more without end.

Obama needs to tax 90% of income (all income of any type) of the top 1%, and also tax the ASSETTS of the FilthyRich to the tune of $5 TRILLION as a onetime SurTax. To repay the $5 TRILLION they stole through the Bush tax cuts over the last 8 years... money that was due and should have been paid to the Treasury all these years.

The solution for the Auto industry was a simple and easy one.... buy ALL US made cars from the inventory, hold a lottery and give them away to all eligible legal drivers. This would have cost less than the AIG bailout, and helped insure the jobs of MILLIONS of Americans, and thousands of businesses fro the big three down to the diner across the street from any random auto plant in Ohio. Then they could concentrate on sensible cars.

Combines with an immediate CAFE increase to 30 MPG now and 40 MPG by 2011, it would see the end of the stupid 10 MPG SUV and bring on innovation.

 

[pothb]

Telling people > Not telling people

And we all know he would have done that. He's George Bush - need I say more?

Yes, you do.

Where did you get that from? that Bush wouldn't have told anyone and still did it?

 

[chaos68]

Obama's failure so far is that of being a pussy. He should take the cash money needed to fix this mess right out of the hides of the upper 1%, especially the top 1/10th of 1%.

Just incase any of you dipshits reading this that take offense to taxing the wealthy... YOU aren't one of them. You may delude yourselves with the "If'n I ever get rich, I don't wanna be taxed up the ass." rationlization, but if you do, you are suckers. Sold a bill of goods, and you wont EVER be getting rich because as you have seen on Wallstreet, the game is rigged to rob you blind to feed the never ending appetite of the FilthyRich (tm) for more and more without end.

Obama needs to tax 90% of income (all income of any type) of the top 1%, and also tax the ASSETTS of the FilthyRich to the tune of $5 TRILLION as a onetime SurTax. To repay the $5 TRILLION they stole through the Bush tax cuts over the last 8 years... money that was due and should have been paid to the Treasury all these years.

wow are you wrong. First of all, it's not right to tax one group over another just because they were more fortunate or had a better idea. Second, you really cant say that they stole 5 trillion through bush tax cuts because, get this, Bush was the president. Those tax cuts were voted on and put into place, to say the money was stolen is to say that Bush and whoever voted yes to that should be brought up on criminal charges. finally, redistribution of wealth is not a viable solution to any problem. You cannot take from the rich and give to the poor unless you want your fantasy friends to start sitting on their asses waiting for their next welfare check.

 

[TechieSooner]

I do get tired of only being able voting for the lesser evil.

This.
The problem is money. Mark my words, the best president we could ever have is Average Joe down the street. Due to financial limitations though, it'll never happen.

So we're stuck with the disillusioned wealthy and upper class of government or wealth.

Really? Vs. John McCain? Perhaps, but most of the people that didn't vote for him in November are pretty much the same people who are saying that he is evil incarnate now. At least among the people I talk to about politics no one I know has switched sides. Just my own experience.

These forums are a great example. Digg is a great example, too.
Most threads had strong Obama support before and right after the elections. Go take a look at any of the threads on the recent bills going through Congress. There's been a huge change in sides from what I've seen.

Turning someone into Satan can often have unintended consequences.

Again with the double standards.
It's OK for the Democratic party to turn Bush into what they portrayed that guy as, yet when it gets done to Obama it's suddenly bad?

If this actually gets passed (crazy talk), I'm jumping ship and asking my company to find me a spot in our UK office. I'd absolutely love killing a good number of birds with one stone (faster mainstream broadband, no kooky laws, back in my homeland, no impending socialism...)

UK isn't better. The difference is that's an already-established socialistic government and there's no use expecting anything different.
All that broadband you like? Yea, it'd be great, but you're paying for it. Income taxes are insane there.

Can anyone tell me what the response would be to a real cyber attack and what laws and authority currently exists to defend against them? And guess what, when someone pulls of a powerful cyber attack, its probably going to happen one day, and people's bank accounts get hacked and things like that happen and there was no effective response, guess what's going to happen, people are going to scream bloody murder that there weren't better protections.

When a real cyber attack happens, banks are going to be willing to cooperate to get the issue fixed.

The problem at hand is at ANY POINT IN TIME, an order can be issued and the Administration instantly has access to millions of electronic transactions.

Obama needs to tax 90% of income (all income of any type) of the top 1%,

That's just foolish. It'll never work.
1) You're penalizing people who do well. What's my motivation to do well and succeed when I'll get tax raped over it?
2) The filthy rich hide money. Aside from their business (which is easily tracked), most of the wealthy folks I know don't pay squat as far as taxes goes.

 

[heatlesssun]

wow are you wrong. First of all, it's not right to tax one group over another just because they were more fortunate or had a better idea. Second, you really cant say that they stole 5 trillion through bush tax cuts because, get this, Bush was the president. Those tax cuts were voted on and put into place, to say the money was stolen is to say that Bush and whoever voted yes to that should be brought up on criminal charges. finally, redistribution of wealth is not a viable solution to any problem. You cannot take from the rich and give to the poor unless you want your fantasy friends to start sitting on their asses waiting for their next welfare check.

No I don't believe in soaking the rich, but really, home many rich people become poor because of taxes? Maybe a few that don't have good accountants. Also, does it make since that Bill Gates is eligible for Social Security when he retires? Why is the payroll tax capped? I have no idea.

One other thing. Wealth is redistributed all the time and not primarily by government. Name one modern economy where wealth isn't increasingly distributed at the upper end. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer relative to each other. That's just a fact in the US.

Wealth is a good thing and I have nothing against the wealthy as typically they provide innovation and jobs. But they also ship jobs to low wage countries. Not that that's a bad thing because people in developing nations need jobs as well. But the attainment of wealth for wealth's sake is the source of all evil.