building a new HTPC

bobbydole · Sep 26, 2011

I'm looking to build a new HTPC, it's been a while since my last one, and well I'm stuck at the case. My current htpc is loud, and big, but mainly loud. So what I want is something smaller, and quiet. I'll be using it mainly for watching my ripped movies, and playing blurays.

I honestly don't know where to start, I was going to get an i3, but I don't know if I should get the 35W, or the 65W. I don't know what motherboard, or case to get. I'm pretty lost. I would to spend under $1000. Any suggestions?

CrimandEvil · Sep 27, 2011

bobbydole said:
I'm looking to build a new HTPC, it's been a while since my last one, and well I'm stuck at the case. My current htpc is loud, and big, but mainly loud. So what I want is something smaller, and quiet. I'll be using it mainly for watching my ripped movies, and playing blurays.

Well, first off it would be nice to know what you're current setup is so we know what could be the noise issues in that. What kind of case and cooling too?

I honestly don't know where to start, I was going to get an i3, but I don't know if I should get the 35W, or the 65W. I don't know what motherboard, or case to get. I'm pretty lost. I would to spend under $1000. Any suggestions?

bobbydole · Sep 27, 2011

Dang, I had a nice reply all typed out, but then I got logged out and lost it.

My current HTPC is my old gaming rig, I didn't pay any attention to how loud it was when I was building it. I should have, because the thing is way too loud.

Couple things I should have mentioned last night:
* I would like to use this PC to continue to encode my DVDs. That is why I picked the intel CPU.
* My expereiences with the low-power CPUs hasn't been all that good. I would like somethign with more power.
* I am currently using windows media center, and a HDHome Run. In the future I would like to upgrade to the HDHome Run Prime.
* I have a 30GB SSD, and a fileserver with loads of space. I also have a bluray drive.

So far I have these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157238
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115078
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231311

Yes I know 8GB is overkill, but I like RAM. Any suggestions on power supply and cases? Also should I get a different CPU cooler? Or is the intel stock quiet?

I'm really looking for something tried and true. I don't want to spend much time tweaking.

bobbydole · Sep 27, 2011

Here are some cases I'm looking at:

http://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-SG05BB-450-Mini-ITX-Computer-Certified/dp/B0047CQ1C8
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163149
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112265

*edit
Here's another one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112297

I would need to get a power supply for the LIAN LI's

Dangman · Sep 28, 2011

You should be fine with this PSU:
$45 - Antec Earthwatts Green EA-430D 430W PSU

dreadwing · Sep 29, 2011

I am building a new htpc pc as well. Here are my specs:

- Case SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum GD05B
- ASRock Z68 PRO3-M
- Corsair 8GB 1600 Speed Ram
- CPU i3-2100
- SILVERSTONE Strider plus 500W Modular
- Lite-On Blu-ray/DVD/CD Burner
- Optional 'NVidia GTX 460' video card
- SSD Crucial M4 64GB for [Win 7 64-bit]
- 2 x 2TB WD green in Raid 0 [Media]

Using it for Blu-ray file playback, 3D movies and BD ripping, and to supplement ps3 media server streams. Do you guys think the i3 is sufficient or should I go to an i5?

kac77 · Sep 29, 2011

dreadwing said:
I am building a new htpc pc as well. Here are my specs:

- Case SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum GD05B
- ASRock Z68 PRO3-M
- Corsair 8GB 1600 Speed Ram
- CPU i3-2100
- SILVERSTONE Strider plus 500W Modular
- Lite-On Blu-ray/DVD/CD Burner
- Optional 'NVidia GTX 460' video card
- SSD Crucial M4 64GB for [Win 7 64-bit]
- 2 x 2TB WD green in Raid 0 [Media]

Using it for Blu-ray file playback, 3D movies and BD ripping, and to supplement ps3 media server streams. Do you guys think the i3 is sufficient or should I go to an i5?

Is that RAID 0 backed up somewhere? If it's not then it's RAID 1 for you. It takes time to back up video files and I don't know what I would do if a drive failed and I lost everything.

dreadwing · Sep 29, 2011

I was mainly going for space/speed to store copies of movies. I may just do 2x500GB or 2x1TB since I have a lot of extra drives to pick from. I have a raid 5 storage system on my server that has redundant storage for files that I need to keep.

Wondering if the GTX 460 is overkill as I heard the i3-2100 can natively handle full 1080p and 3D... But I like overkill.

kac77 · Sep 30, 2011

dreadwing said:
I was mainly going for space/speed to store copies of movies. I may just do 2x500GB or 2x1TB since I have a lot of extra drives to pick from. I have a raid 5 storage system on my server that has redundant storage for files that I need to keep.

As long as you've got the most important stuff saved go for it.

dreadwing said:
Wondering if the GTX 460 is overkill as I heard the i3-2100 can natively handle full 1080p and 3D... But I like overkill.

If you aren't going to game there's no point. That's just adding heat and power for no reason. However, discretes do come in handy for post-processing which is limited on the i3. I use it sometimes to smooth out the effects of video captures from the cable provider. Sometimes things aren't as sharp or as clear as I would like them.Other than that the i3 by itself works.

Valaire · Sep 30, 2011

The GTX 460, Z68, Raid 0, and i5 are all overkill for an HTPC for streaming movies and playing blurays. The Raid 0 is particularly pointless and harmful.

CrimandEvil · Sep 30, 2011

Valaire said:
The GTX 460, Z68, Raid 0, and i5 are all overkill for an HTPC for streaming movies and playing blurays. The Raid 0 is particularly pointless and harmful.

QFFMT Stupid kind of overkill....

MrSmegzabush · Sep 30, 2011

I even run my HTPC w/ only 2GB DDR3 and put the extra funds towards a cheap SSD. The SSD helps much more than the RAM does especially if you are only running one program at a time.

dreadwing · Sep 30, 2011

I figure the z67 and z68 are close enough in price, so why not. I know raid 0 isn't necessary, but if its temporary storage for housing movies that I will eventually delete or move to nas, and for ripping BD. I like the extra speed and combined storage of rd0. If i do not go with rd 0 I will just use a single HD.

I will stick with the i3-2100 then and the integrated video card to start. With a HTPC have you guys seen a significant increase in 1080p movie playback compared to using the PS3 media server setup?

This is my first attempt in building a htpc and appreciate the feedback.

Valaire · Sep 30, 2011

You're missing the point on chipsets: you shouldn't be using either the p67 or the z68. Get an h61. Has no native SATAIII over H67 but you don't need/want SATAIII anyway for HTPC, and it's cheaper. H61 is your go-to chipset if you want to go Intel.

For chip family: i3 is dual core with HT, i5 is quad core. You have no need for any extra processing muscle for your intended tasks. i3 is already the "premium end" of the HTPC spectrum for processing power and integrated graphics (sans 24p bug).

Raid 0: Raid 0 increases sustained transfers and increases doubles the chances of you losing all your data because if one of your drives fails you lose everything. You aren't doing any sustained transfers on a HTPC media storage drive beyond copying over files once, and recording if you are using a tuner. You're storing stuff on it once, and reading it many times. For media storage purposes, you want a cheap form of redundancy, not faster speed, which can be provided by Raid 1, Raid 5, or a custom solution like unRaid or Flexraid. Ideal solution is to build or buy a separate NAS and load it up with 5400 RPM drives and run raid5 or unRaid (both solutions allow you to protect against 1 drive failure with 1 parity drive, unRaid lets you expand the array on-the-fly). Less ideal solution for short to medium term is to throw a 5400 RPM drive in your HTPC and use it for recordings and media storage until you outgrow it.

PS3MediaServer: The software is probably transcoding on-the-fly to a format your PS3/Xbox can display so yes the HTPC playback solution will be superior because it won't be transcoding and it will have much better hardware.

PSU: Never heard of it, I'll let others comment on it, no idea if it's good.

RAM: Drop it to 4GB, 1066 or 1333.

SSD: Pick between the SATAII/III (your max speeds will be SATAII though) offerings of Samsung, Crucial, and Intel and get the cheapest one at the time in the 40-64GB range.

Bluray Burner: Replace with a Bluray reader unless you are actually going to be burning Blurays with your HTPC b/c you can't with your PC.

dreadwing · Sep 30, 2011

Valaire,

Great post and very helpful. Can you give some recommendations for the H61 Micro Motherboard? It will still accept the i3-2100 CPU, correct? Is the Intel 24p bug where it does 24fps instead of 23.976?

I will take your advice and skip the rd0 and use just normal HD for scrap storage and use my network share as main since it’s already an 8TB raid 5.

Ram: I thought more is more when it comes to ram esp. cheap ddr3.

Blu-ray: What is a good reader that will play orig/copied BD?

I am still on fence about using the HTPC for games since my TV is a Samsung pn64D8000. I think I'd like the ability to play PC games on my 64 inch screen. In that case what would you modify in your recommendations?

Valaire · Sep 30, 2011

Motherboard: Most H61 motherboards should work, I'm using the Asus one in my sig and it works fine. Just make sure you don't get any versions that don't have HDMI. Yes H61 is compatible with all Sandybridge chips.

24 Bug: Yes that's the bug, with the caveat that it gets blown out of proportion on these forums. A vast majority of viewers will not even notice it. You can always throw in a discrete card later if it bugs you.

Storage: Yeah, if you already have storage elsewhere in a raid5 that is perfect for streaming to an HTPC. That way you just have an SSD in your HTPC which is smaller, cooler, and makes no noise.

Ram: Nope, it's the opposite. After a certain threshold adding RAM does not improve your computing experience UNLESS you are doing something specific that is RAM-intensive. This won't apply for an HTPC and 4GB is the max you should go to. You also don't need fast RAM so just get 1066 or 1333, in a dual-channel kit (2GB x2).

Bluray: They're all pretty comparable. I have a Samsung one from Newegg because it was the cheapest. Samsung's comes with PowerDVD but I prefer TotalMediaTheatre; but I don't play Blurays all that often. The point is to get a reader instead of a burner and save $60. A reader is around $60. A burner doesn't really belong on an HTPC; just on a PC.

Gaming: If you want to do 1080P PC gaming (not console emulators), then you'd modify two things: (1) inclusion of a discrete graphics card and making sure the case you choose is big enough to fit the video card and ventilate it properly; and (2) a PSU that has the required wattage (~500-650W is fine) and PCI-E power connectors. Otherwise, no other impact on part choices.

dreadwing · Sep 30, 2011

MB: Will check out the Asus H61 with HDMI
24 Bug: What is there to notice?
Storage: Will go with a 64GB SSD for main drive.
RAM: Dual Channel 1333 2x2GB total of 4 GB.
Blray: Reader Only.

Gaming: Is the Nvidia GTX460 a good option for 1080p gaming / HD Audio bitstreaming. Want to keep down the noise/heat although I only plan on using th HTPC when watching films. The case I plan on using is the SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum GD05B will that fit the 460 card?

PSU: 500/650watt modular.

Valaire · Sep 30, 2011

24 Bug: Judder (slight frame drop) every once in awhile.

Gaming: Yeah GTX460 was always a solid bang-for-buck 1080P gaming card. Should play most current games at medium to high settings.

Case: I quickly checked Newegg's spec sheet and it didn't list max video card size with or without HDD cages, so I'm not sure. Check the user reviews of the case and see if a user mentions any difficulty with video cards and/or says what size is the max.

dreadwing · Sep 30, 2011

Thank you Valaire,

The judder-bug might annoy me if it is noticeable. But if I use the gtx 460, that becomes a non-issue, correct?

Gaming: I'll see what kind of a price I can get on the gtx460 once I verify that case will accommodate it. Maybe I can get one used.

Is the i3-2100 still ok for gaming @ 1080p, sounds like it should be?

Valaire · Sep 30, 2011

If you get the GTX460 you won't have to worry about the judder bug so that would kill 2 birds.

Can't game on the integrated graphics of the i3 at 1080p alone if that's what you were asking (the integrated graphics is perfectly good for media playback at 1080P, bluray, and console emulators, but not good for PC gaming).

But with the GTX it would be fine, yeah. You might get CPU-limited a bit on some cutting edge game engines that use multicores more, but that's why you have another gaming PC somewhere. I'd suggest getting the parts sans the GTX460, and focus on setting up the HTPC and integrating it into your life. By then you'll have an idea of how much and what kind of gaming you want to do on your TV and can upgrade then or wait to get a really good deal on a card.

dreadwing · Sep 30, 2011

Good advice. I will initially stick with the integratd video. For good gaming, is it wise to just get an i5 or something a bit faster? Or does the i3 run much cooler and that is why it's ideal for the htpc setup.

I know I am over thinking this, but since I can buy from ground up, I'd like to go with a solid build from the start.

Valaire said:
But with the GTX it would be fine, yeah. You might get CPU-limited a bit on some cutting edge game engines that use multicores more, but that's why you have another gaming PC somewhere. I'd suggest getting the parts sans the GTX460, and focus on setting up the HTPC and integrating it into your life. By then you'll have an idea of how much and what kind of gaming you want to do on your TV and can upgrade then or wait to get a really good deal on a card.

Valaire · Sep 30, 2011

The primary reason that you don't see HTPC's with i5's is not the cooling properties, it's just that it's unnecessary because most HTPC users don't do serious 1080P PC gaming in addition to the "core" functions of an HTPC. Some do; most don't. At a certain point in some multicore games like BFBC2, a CPU can become the bottleneck for a GFX to pump out FPS. I don't know specifics for i3 + BFBC2 + 460, for instance, but I'm guessing it's playable.

It comes down to how much and how often you think you are going to be playing cutting-edge PC games on your HTPC with a keyboard and mouse, or a controller. In my situation, I built my HTPC sparing no expense for my intended use, which was streaming media, playing Bluray, and emulating all kinds of console games from NES through PS2. I have a high-end gaming PC (I'm about to build a new one), that I use to play PC games online with a 27 inch monitor which is ideal for me since I'm more of a competitive gamer. When I want to sit on the couch, I can play console classics or use my Xbox 360 (the power supply is about to blow up though).

If you feel that you are going to do heavy gaming on your HTPC and that it's definitely a priority for you, then at that point I'd say definitely get an i5 for cutting edge performance. For everything else, and more "traditional" use, an i3 is the place to be. So I think next step for you is to specifically envision what your perfect situation looks like: which games you think you want to play on your couch and how you are going to play them (wireless keyboard/mouse on coffee table, Xbox 360 gamepad, etc.) and go from there.

dreadwing · Sep 30, 2011

I work for Dell, so I get a lot of free/cheap dell equipment (cpu, hd, mem,pcs) cost/budget htpc is not a big concern. Problem is I only own dell desktops, servers and workstations and have not had the pleasure of building my own setups in a very long time.

So take price of chips and memory out of the equation, I'd like to build a high end HTPC mainly because I can but at the same time not wanting to overdo it where the benefits of the HTPC are outweighed by the heat noise of going too overboard.

I would still say high end movie play back is the top priority, and gaming 2nd. I already have several extra i5-2500 & i7-2600 chips that I can use with no extra costs. I would have to actually buy an i3-2100 if I went that route.

So based on that should I just go i5/i7 and be done with it? I really thought people went with the i3 because of heat rather than cost. As for the video card I would need to buy one but plan on selling some of my extra parts to pay for by computer builds.

Aside from the HTPC I am also building a new personal pc. I would be curious to see what you had in mind for your build as you seem like a regular at this stuff.

Dangman · Sep 30, 2011

dreadwing said:
So based on that should I just go i5/i7 and be done with it? I really thought people went with the i3 because of heat rather than cost.

If you already have a Core i5/i7 CPU lying around, go ahead and use them. The i5/i7 do use more power than the i3 but they're still fairly power efficient. As far as HTPC and gaming performance goes, there's really no difference between the Core i5 2500K and 2600K.

dreadwing said:
Gaming: Is the Nvidia GTX460 a good option for 1080p gaming / HD Audio bitstreaming. Want to keep down the noise/heat although I only plan on using th HTPC when watching films. The case I plan on using is the SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum GD05B will that fit the 460 card?

The GTX 460 1GB is a pretty bad buy for the money these days since it now costs as much as the faster HD 6870 1GB:
$170 - XFX HD-687A-ZHFC Radeon HD 6870 1GB PCI-E Video Card

The GD05 should fit the HD 6870 1GB from what I can tell.

dreadwing said:
PSU: 500/650watt modular.

This is simply one of the best deals now for a modular PSU:
$110 - Seasonic X650 Gold 650W Modular PSU

I highly recommend buying it as soon as you read this post as the sale ends today. It's an excellent quality PSU at a great price. PSU reviews to back up my statement:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=169
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Seasonic-X-Series-650-W-Power-Supply-Review/837

Valaire · Oct 1, 2011

On my fiance's crappy laptop at the moment so going to be brief.

I agree with Danny on the i5--if you have one, you can put one in and not get too worked up on heat. The PSU is very good also and have had it wish listed into my next desktop build for awhile on Newegg.

dreadwing said:
Aside from the HTPC I am also building a new personal pc. I would be curious to see what you had in mind for your build as you seem like a regular at this stuff.

For my new desktop build, which is probably going to be executed around the end of October after I move into a new apartment, I have saved the following components:

CPU - i7 2600k
Mobo - Asus P8P67 Pro Rev 3.1
Ram - g.Skill 16GB 1366
PSU - Seasonic X650
Case - Lian Li (forget name of it, it's the update to the case in my sig, with the top case fan)
GPU - Sapphire Radeon 6950 2GB Toxic Edition
SSD - 256GB Crucial m4 or Samsung 830, whichever is cheaper at the time
Optical - Samsung BD-Rom
Sound - Asus Xonar Essence STX (salvaged)
CPU Fan - Coolermaster Hyper 212+

Build will probably come out to be around $1500 give or take a $100 or so, because I may save some money getting some of it at Microcenter. Can send Newegg links when back on my PC later.

May also stick a Caviar Black drive in there for video editing purposes. The rest of my storage is going into a server I am also going to build with 8-12 TB of storage in a Lian Li SFF box using unRaid. Primary usage is media storage connected to my computers and HTPC.

dreadwing · Oct 2, 2011

I purchased the PSU that Danny recommended as it was a good price. I will probably go with the i5 CPU for the HTPC and stick with integrated video for start.

The desktop build is similar to mine except I had a z68 Mobo and lite-on BD as I heard the Samsung prevents ripping BD, though not sure if there is a work around for that.

On the unraid, what kind of performance can you expect compared to server storage or NAS? I want something that can do 80+ mb/sec transfers.

Dangman · Oct 2, 2011

dreadwing said:
On the unraid, what kind of performance can you expect compared to server storage or NAS? I want something that can do 80+ mb/sec transfers.

Not an expert but from what I can tell: Depends on where the data is located: If the data is located on the unRaid's cache drive, you might get 80MB/s. However, if the data is on the unRAID array itself, its performance can be anywhere from 20MB/s to 40MB/s.

From the unRAID FAQ:

Because the emphasis is on data security, through parity protection, writes to parity-protected drives take much longer than reads. Whereas reads are passed through as one I/O, writes require four I/O's, because both data drive and the parity drive must be read first, then both drives written to, which usually requires a full drive platter rotation. For very large files (a prime use of unRAID servers), drive buffering is useless.
Some general guidance as to what typical users can expect (assuming gigabit networking), read speeds *from* your server and writes to non parity-protected drives (such as the Cache drive) should typically be between 22MB/s and 40MB/s, with some reports of 45MB/s. Write speeds directly to parity-protected drives should be between 15MB/s and 25MB/s, with write speeds to User Shares a bit slower. If using unRAID versions prior to unRAID v4.5-beta8, then write speeds should be between 8MB/s and 15MB/s. If the Cache drive feature is used, then files saved to User Shares are at full speed. Later in off-hours, the files are moved more slowly to the parity-protected drives.

dreadwing · Oct 2, 2011

Thanks for the info, what nas type soltion provides faster thoughput? I used FreeNas in the past but did not like the performance. I like the idea of redundent shared storage but would like high file transfers if possible.

Dangman · Oct 2, 2011

dreadwing said:
Thanks for the info, what nas type soltion provides faster thoughput? I used FreeNas in the past but did not like the performance. I like the idea of redundent shared storage but would like high file transfers if possible.

Did you try FreeNAS with ZFS? In general, ZFS is a very fast file system/logical volume manager. However its implementation is a little complicated:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036644362&postcount=2 (Ignore ZFSGuru References)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS

There's also Linux software RAID with MDADM which should also provide high speeds. Should work with most Linux distributions.

dreadwing · Oct 2, 2011

I will look into those options I am comfortable with Linux but not an expert. I did try ZFS on FreeNas but not a good test as I was using a VM in esx 4.0 on a single drive environment.

I had looked into the QNAP ts-459 but they were exp and limited to only 4 drives. Any recommendations for hardware setup for a 6+ drive nas device that can do 100 mb/sec+ on a raid 5/10 configuration.

Thanks

building a new HTPC

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