Building first file server...

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webdes03

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
320
So yes, I know this is yet another "I'm building a server thread", but I have some questions and opportunities for input from you seasoned pro's out there.

I am getting ready to build my first real file server. Currently I've got a 500Gb NAS which has been great, but it's slow on large file transfers and it's almost full. I've spec'd out a pretty basic system (on a bit of a budget) consisting of 2.0Ghz, 2Gb ram and gigabit NIC (which I'm assuming will be suitable). My questions are mainly aimed towards OS and RAID choices.

I'm fairly new to Linux, but my plan was to use Linux on this box. The majority of my Linux experience is with Ubuntu, and I've dabbled a little bit with Ubuntu Server. I tried installing Webmin in Ubuntu Server, but it gave me a bunch of errors about locating the Samba config. Are there any other "web based" management options for setting up shares and permissions that I could try. I just don't have a lot of experience with the purely server version, I've even contemplated using the regular desktop version, I'm sure that'd probably work too, but input is welcome.

On to the question of RAID. This server will be used primarily for music and video, so I'm mostly concerned with transfer times, and the capability of streaming large video files to other PC's. I've never worked with RAID, but I've been doing some research, and it looks like RAID 5 might be the best bet for some protection. As I'm on a bit of a budget I can't really afford those $300 RAID controllers. I was looking at this one, any comments? http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16816115029

I have no idea how to actually configure the array, I'm still researching on that, but I wanted to ask if it's possible to add more drives in the future. I'm looking at 3x 500gb right now, and I know I'll loose a drive to the RAID 5 config, so I'll want to plan on adding more drives later. Assuming the drives are the same make/model/size, can I add to the array without loosing data on it?

Thanks for all your input, sorry for all the questions. Hopefully I've given enough info for some suggestions or criticism.
 
Forgot to add, I was planning on installing the OS on a separate system drive, to keep it isolated from the RAID array. From what I've read that's a good idea, but again input is appreciated.
 
I can try to give you some input. Im just warning you, I've been awake for 35 hours and English isnt my native language so... this can go either way...

First of, if you decide to go with Linux, make sure you get a controllercard with correct drivers. Otherwise it "may" work at best. Im running Windows Server 2003 on my setups but the cards I use have working drivers for Linux. Cards are from ST Labs. Extremely outdated homepage but nothing wrong with their products.

Second, you do the right thing to keep your OS on a single disk. Biggest problem with raid5 is writing data, with only three disks it wont be quick but I dont think you need speed in this case. For streaming I see no problems, most likely you will get the same speed as with Raid0, more or less double or higher than with a single disk.

Third, only the controller can decide if you can add another disk afterwards. As a general rule, dont have raid5 instead of backup. Have both. I know you are on a budget but in the event of fire or theft you have still lost your data. Back up the most important. For example, I have 8tb of data stored on raid5. Out of that I have only backup on 1tb. Plus, in case you want to add a new disk, it is usually faster to backup everything, break the array and make a new one with the new disk(s) and then restore the data from the backup. Normally you can mix as you like with different disks and brands, however the different manufactures doesnt have the same size on their drives. My old Maxtor and Hitachi 160gb it differs a total of 4gb. If you add a disk that is smaller than what you already have, you will not be able to use it.
 
Thanks for your input. I will take a look at ST Labs. Which cards do you have?

My plan was to continue to use my 500Gb NAS box, but in it's new life it'll be backup for the crucial data. I wasn't planning on backing up all of the media, but there is data that needs to be backed up, and my plan was to setup some type of a backup process on the Linux box to send specific directories to the NAS. Any input on software for that would be appreciated.
 
I'm not sure whether to add to the array later you'll need a controller supporting Online Capacity Expansion, can someone else speak from experience? Can you take the array offline and add more drives on any controller?

If you can't afford a better controller sacrifice some of the other specs to free up more money. You don't need a dualcore 2Ghz with 2Gig of memory, this is only a home fileserver. If you reduced those costs enough you could get a decent hardware RAID controller and take parity load off the CPU too.
 
It sjust called STLabs Satacontroller 4ports or something like that. Great card tho running on the pci-e ports.

You can only add drives if the controller supports it, if it doesnt you have to break it up, format, and re-create it with the new disks.
 
I actually now have access to an old P4 1.4ghz with 1Gb ram, so this is the new base for my server. Originally I was going to buy everything. Have to look at the budget, but I'm thinking that now we can do a nice H/W RAID card. The only drawback to this system is that the NIC is only 100Mb, but a cheap Gigabit card can fix that. It's also only got PCI slots.

Thanks for all your feedback guys... I really appreciate it...
 
Budget and number of ports you want on the card?

Haven't seen any PCI hardware controller cards yet. Will do some research on that.
 
I'd probably want at least 4 ports. Budget... I want a decent one, but I'd like to try and not exceed $300. Budget is a little flexible though as I no longer have to build the whole system (just the array). I'd like the ability to add additional drives and/or cards in the future. Want to build some growth possibilities into this build if at all possible. Again, I'm completely new to RAID, so if I'm asking for more than possible then give me a good firm kick back on the right track...
 
adding drives to your existing array will be extremely slow. Think about going all the way from the start.
Your array will be vulnerable during the expanding procedure. 1 drive fails and kaput.
 
webdes03 said:
I actually now have access to an old P4 1.4ghz with 1Gb ram, so this is the new base for my server. Originally I was going to buy everything. Have to look at the budget, but I'm thinking that now we can do a nice H/W RAID card. The only drawback to this system is that the NIC is only 100Mb, but a cheap Gigabit card can fix that. It's also only got PCI slots.

Thanks for all your feedback guys... I really appreciate it...
Click to expand...

You may well be bottlenecked by the PCI bus in that configuration. If you're going to bother getting a decent RAID controller it should be PCI-X or PCI-e.
Using the old machine is a good idea, as you don't need better specs, but look at getting a motherboard with PCI-e.
 
XS Janus said:
adding drives to your existing array will be extremely slow. Think about going all the way from the start.
Your array will be vulnerable during the expanding procedure. 1 drive fails and kaput.
Click to expand...
Would that be if one of the original drives failed? While I was trying to expand my 4 disk RAID 5 to a 6 disk RAID 6 my computer crashed, but the RAID 5 array was still working, but marked as degraded. I removed the two new drives and all the data seems to have survived intact.

Right now I'm expanding a 4 disk RAID 5 to 5 disks, and it's going to take around 50 hours (I'm at 80% now so it's a good estimate). This is on an Adaptec 5805 controller.
 
Concentric said:
You may well be bottlenecked by the PCI bus in that configuration. If you're going to bother getting a decent RAID controller it should be PCI-X or PCI-e.
Using the old machine is a good idea, as you don't need better specs, but look at getting a motherboard with PCI-e.
Click to expand...

I concur. Your (the OP I mean) main concern is transfer rate and time, right? So there is a good chance the PCI will bottleneck you.

If you can get a mobo with PCI-E, I recommend getting a used Dell Perc 5 Hardware RAID card for around $120 on eBay. Add two SAS to SATA cables and you now have a 8 Port true hardware RAID card for around $150 to $160. Check out these links:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1301566
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1298815

Though if you really want to stick with that PCI mobo, this RAID card might be a good choice:
Dell AAR-2610SA
 
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Paendrag said:
Would that be if one of the original drives failed? While I was trying to expand my 4 disk RAID 5 to a 6 disk RAID 6 my computer crashed, but the RAID 5 array was still working, but marked as degraded. I removed the two new drives and all the data seems to have survived intact.

Right now I'm expanding a 4 disk RAID 5 to 5 disks, and it's going to take around 50 hours (I'm at 80% now so it's a good estimate). This is on an Adaptec 5805 controller.
Click to expand...

How large of an array do you have now? I think your controller is one of the fastest ones outhere so you migration times should be the fastest available (isn't that the 1200MHz dual core one?)

I just tried running that as an experiment on my array with 3ware 9650SE and it recalculates at ~4MiB/s and that would take WEEKS for a big array.

You are fortunate your data survived. I thought even that scenario would destroy it. But I guess that would happen only when one of the original drives fails.
I really hope somebody could confirm that that would happen, so that we know more than heresay. ;)
 
Yeah it's the 1.2 GHz dual core, I'm assuming it's an Intel IOP348 but it's never stated explicitly that I've seen. I went from 4x750 GB to 5x750 GB, which is what I've got now. The expansion process took 47-48 hours.
 
That puts it at about 16MiB/s per second and at least 4 times fast as mine. (3ware 9650SE)
NICE results! Also uppon seeing how slow mine was at migrating I decided I to poupulate all my 8 ports at once, cause going from 4x1TB drives and adding one by one as you need space i would really be pushing my luck.
 
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