California Officially Becomes First in Nation Mandating Solar Power for New Homes

[Grimlaking]

I think this is an admirable stance and I hope the reality of our situation bears it out.

But I do have a question, and no, I don't already know the answer so I'm not setting you up ....... what if the panels require specific materials that are not in great and abundant supply? I mean, in that case, wouldn't that drive prices up instead of down?

Just playing Devil's Advocate while hoping I'm wrong.

then alternate materials will be found and used while the price hike means housing building will slow. I just hope this rule is for community housing as well meaning apartment complexes and such. Imagine an apartment complex with solar througout and covered parking that is all solar power generation as well. Sure rent may be a bit higher but the overall cost of living there COULD go down.

Problem is in states like Texas with their hail storms and further north with the crazy snowfalls and months of dim sunlight due to it all being refraction.

 

[alxlwson]

then alternate materials will be found and used while the price hike means housing building will slow. I just hope this rule is for community housing as well meaning apartment complexes and such. Imagine an apartment complex with solar througout and covered parking that is all solar power generation as well. Sure rent may be a bit higher but the overall cost of living there COULD go down.

Problem is in states like Texas with their hail storms and further north with the crazy snowfalls and months of dim sunlight due to it all being refraction.

Imagine that...no one solution for all problems

 

[Nafensoriel]

then alternate materials will be found and used while the price hike means housing building will slow. I just hope this rule is for community housing as well meaning apartment complexes and such. Imagine an apartment complex with solar througout and covered parking that is all solar power generation as well. Sure rent may be a bit higher but the overall cost of living there COULD go down.

Problem is in states like Texas with their hail storms and further north with the crazy snowfalls and months of dim sunlight due to it all being refraction.

This is a very dangerous attitude to have in science and engineering. Praying for a new miracle advancement in material sciences is always a very bad idea.

Remember solar and wind are not new technology. They are one of the oldest sections of technology. There is the side effect of physics as well. Often technology goes rapidly from economical and practical to absurd with a simple material change. It's actually very difficult in many cases to just "remove" things like lead or cadmium. In solars case its pretty darn impossible to remove tetrachlorides.

 

[Laowai]

Imagine that...no one solution for all problems

Yet there is one solution to most energy concerns.
Nuclear.
Coal or solar or wind or hydro or whatever or a combination of whatever is appropriate can fill in the gaps.

 

[Grimlaking]

This is a very dangerous attitude to have in science and engineering. Praying for a new miracle advancement in material sciences is always a very bad idea.

Remember solar and wind are not new technology. They are one of the oldest sections of technology. There is the side effect of physics as well. Often technology goes rapidly from economical and practical to absurd with a simple material change. It's actually very difficult in many cases to just "remove" things like lead or cadmium. In solars case its pretty darn impossible to remove tetrachlorides.

When demand increases and production volumes increase your price per unit normally decreases. Even with more expensive materials if you can get your thresholds down for what you actually consume in use then the value proposition still becomes better.

There have been instances and articles that I have skimmed through discussing new materials for solar panels.

Here is a handy link for you: http://bfy.tw/LJqB

 

[lcpiper]

When demand increases and production volumes increase your price per unit normally decreases. Even with more expensive materials if you can get your thresholds down for what you actually consume in use then the value proposition still becomes better.

There have been instances and articles that I have skimmed through discussing new materials for solar panels.

Here is a handy link for you: http://bfy.tw/LJqB

Yes, but it's all guess work for us, unless we nail down specific standards or performance requirements as set by the State.

I like chasing tail as much as the next guy, but I prefer it not be my own tail I be chasin'

 

[Nafensoriel]

When demand increases and production volumes increase your price per unit normally decreases. Even with more expensive materials if you can get your thresholds down for what you actually consume in use then the value proposition still becomes better.

There have been instances and articles that I have skimmed through discussing new materials for solar panels.

Here is a handy link for you: http://bfy.tw/LJqB

I've been in energy tech for quite some time in both research and engineering. I hazard to guess I understand how production volume alters unit price better than most people. Not a knock against ya we don't really talk about qualifications when we argue online in today's day and age .

While unit cost can be reduced with volume there are hard limits to how far these efficiencies can be pushed. Let's just talk about silicon itself. Manufacturing grade is measured in grams/cent its so dirt cheap.. but its impurities can absolutely eliminate it for things like cell production or semiconductor. If you transition into pure silicon its 47USD/lb IIRC. Extremely pure silicon can go for thousands of dollars a pound. Ideally, if you are looking at mass production you want to drop quality tiers for the highest cost savings. With solar, this isn't really possible because failure rates increase with lower quality. The demand for increased efficiency of the cell itself makes it extremely difficult.

I also repeat its an old technology. We have snapped up much of the low hanging fruit efficiency wise already. It isn't an infinite pool to draw from. Now we are in the brilliant engineering stage where a novel idea or grueling experimentation is required to truly push the technology forward. The downside is much of its problems are going to indefinitely be problems. The cadmium and tetrachloride issue is unlikely to be solved in our lifetimes.

It is extremely easy to hope you can make something work.. but the reality is once you get into more complex tech the dumbest things can kill it.

 

[Grimlaking]

I've been in energy tech for quite some time in both research and engineering. I hazard to guess I understand how production volume alters unit price better than most people. Not a knock against ya we don't really talk about qualifications when we argue online in today's day and age .

While unit cost can be reduced with volume there are hard limits to how far these efficiencies can be pushed. Let's just talk about silicon itself. Manufacturing grade is measured in grams/cent its so dirt cheap.. but its impurities can absolutely eliminate it for things like cell production or semiconductor. If you transition into pure silicon its 47USD/lb IIRC. Extremely pure silicon can go for thousands of dollars a pound. Ideally, if you are looking at mass production you want to drop quality tiers for the highest cost savings. With solar, this isn't really possible because failure rates increase with lower quality. The demand for increased efficiency of the cell itself makes it extremely difficult.

I also repeat its an old technology. We have snapped up much of the low hanging fruit efficiency wise already. It isn't an infinite pool to draw from. Now we are in the brilliant engineering stage where a novel idea or grueling experimentation is required to truly push the technology forward. The downside is much of its problems are going to indefinitely be problems. The cadmium and tetrachloride issue is unlikely to be solved in our lifetimes.

It is extremely easy to hope you can make something work.. but the reality is once you get into more complex tech the dumbest things can kill it.

Perhaps I'm just jaded by the regular advancements in tech around CPU performance and cores per die. Maybe I've been conditioned to expect year on year yield improvements and lowering of costs. I fully admit I'm not as deep into the development of the technology as you are. (Not at all). I am a fan of alternative energy. Would love to see it be properly tapped.

 

[Deathroned]

Today the left lies about us having wars for oil. Will they a decade from now take us to war over say lithium? Or some other rare earth mineral?

Well the only reason you guys are in Syria and continue to fund your Army's (Daesy, Isis etc) is because Netanyahu promised his buddies oil in Golan heights. learn about the Genie Oil Corporation.