California To Generate Electricity Using Rush Hour Traffic?

[HardOCP News]

It looks like California (of all places) might be the first state to use piezoelectric generation to convert road vibrations into actual electricity. The idea isn't new but the fact that no new tax money is required and they can be installed during regular road maintenance, this bill might have a shot at passing.

My bill takes existing money that was set aside years ago for creative projects just like this. It does not use any new tax dollars," according to Gatto. "The money is already there, and we're only going to do this when the roads are set for their regularly rescheduled re-paving. We're not going to tear up any roads, we're just going to stick the technology underneath the roads when they're scheduled for paving anyway.

 

[matteos]

Very cool. We certainly have a lot of rush hour traffic

 

[Solidstate89]

A bill that makes absolute sense with little to no downside?

Nope. Doesn't stand a chance in hell of passing.

 

[Xrave]

From article:

"My bill takes existing money that was set aside years ago for creative projects just like this. It does not use any new tax dollars," according to Gatto. "The money is already there, and we're only going to do this when the roads are set for their regularly rescheduled re-paving. We're not going to tear up any roads, we're just going to stick the technology underneath the roads when they're scheduled for paving anyway."

Sounds good. Hope it doesn't get stuck in legal red tape.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

A bill that makes absolute sense with little to no downside?

Nope. Doesn't stand a chance in hell of passing.

As much as I hate to be a cynic as well..I think the above stands very true being this IS California we are talking about. Would be nice if they did pass it assuming all that is true.

 

[Enduring_Warrior]

That statement is either incomplete or it doesn't finish to make sense to me.

Question: How the hell are you supposed to transmit that energy/connect the road to the power system. That is no easy task. Everyone with a little of electrical engineering knowledge understand that transmission/distribution is the biggest concern. Can someone clarify this?

 

[Scott_T]

Dont forget that'll give cars lower gas mileage too.

 

[sfsuphysics]

I'm going to be cynical too but for other reasons

"A one mile stretch of two lane highway can generate enough power to power 500 homes for an entire year, or to power 120 electrical vehicles a day, according to Gatto.

sounds a little too bold to be true. Not to mention the times mentioned, 500 homes for a year? 120 EVs for a day? How long of producing energy do these need to occur? 1 year of traffic = 500 homes power? Or 1 day of traffic = 120 EV cars charging for that day? Or 1 year = 120 EV cars for a day?

Also

"My bill takes existing money that was set aside years ago for creative projects just like this. It does not use any new tax dollars," according to Gatto. "The money is already there, and we're only going to do this when the roads are set for their regularly rescheduled re-paving. We're not going to tear up any roads, we're just going to stick the technology underneath the roads when they're scheduled for paving anyway."

This is the bit of political thinking that does piss me off quite a bit. Like when a school has to lay off teachers due to budget issues, yet they build a new football stadium or something and argue that money has already been allocated. I'm sorry, if they money existed and we haven't used it yet, then we're were paying interest to not use it, if we didn't pay interest because we didn't borrow it yet, then we don't have the money free (i.e. big fucking budget crisis).

That said, the techno-geek in me says fuck it and let go!

 

[BravO)))]

God Damn it!!! Every time I think of a good idea, it happens four years later. I need to start acting on some of this stuff I think of.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Dont forget that'll give cars lower gas mileage too.

Not necessarily true. The cars already are losing the energy to road vibration... that vibration is simply being dissipated through the under soil, and lost. Apparently these devices simply capture that vibrational energy.

 

[infect0]

I'm going to be cynical too but for other reasons



sounds a little too bold to be true. Not to mention the times mentioned, 500 homes for a year? 120 EVs for a day? How long of producing energy do these need to occur? 1 year of traffic = 500 homes power? Or 1 day of traffic = 120 EV cars charging for that day? Or 1 year = 120 EV cars for a day?

Also



This is the bit of political thinking that does piss me off quite a bit. Like when a school has to lay off teachers due to budget issues, yet they build a new football stadium or something and argue that money has already been allocated. I'm sorry, if they money existed and we haven't used it yet, then we're were paying interest to not use it, if we didn't pay interest because we didn't borrow it yet, then we don't have the money free (i.e. big fucking budget crisis).

That said, the techno-geek in me says fuck it and let go!

I had to read it twice but I assume its saying homes for an entire year and 120 EV a day for infinity.

1 year of traffic = 500 homes
1 year of traffic = 120 cars

so in other words in 1 day energy use for 500 homes = 120 cars.

 

[overthetop]

I'd say use wind turbines on the stretches of freeway with little stop-n-go traffic during rush hours.

 

[xanas3712]

This sounds unreasonably optimistic.

1) The amount of energy sounds way too high
2) So these devices don't require maintenance or replacement? And what about the electric cabling that would need to be run in order to connect these power lines into the system?

 

[srangara]

This sounds unreasonably optimistic.

1) The amount of energy sounds way too high
2) So these devices don't require maintenance or replacement? And what about the electric cabling that would need to be run in order to connect these power lines into the system?

They're not all that high-tech. Maintenance and replacement would, I assume, be done in exactly the same timeframe as the bill proposes: as the roads need maintenance.

Assuming roads are lit in California, I think it's safe to say there is cabling in place that can handle the loads we're talking about here. At the very least, there is already a connection to the grid that would just need to be augmented with cabling to the new devices.

 

[Chimel]

It is completely mad that with such a high deficit, the State of California gets funds for 'creative' projects that are not defined yet and allocated months or years later.

This technology is also ridiculously expensive, it's a few thousand dollars for a one square foot capture device. At least that's what my home city of Toulouse, France paid for it, on a pedestrian lane though, not a car lane, to light it up at night. Some Dutch nightclubs have a similar system.
The output is huge, so I am not surprised that it could power 500 homes per year. All this energy is currently wasted.

However much money California has for this project, I can't believe they have enough for more than a pilot trial of a few yards, prove me wrong. One mile of a dual lane highway would cost hundreds of millions. But a pilot trial is probably exactly what we need at this stage, to study the long term effects of this technology on the road surface or the noise, for instance.

 

[Chimel]

Forgot the figures: 15 square feet on that pedestrian lane power a 100 W light-bulb for several hours overnight.

 

[thefreeaccount]

Pretty fascinating. By dampening road vibration, it should in theory help the water/sewer/gas lines & pavement last longer, reducing long-term maintenance costs.

 

[Ruoh]

God Damn it!!! Every time I think of a good idea, it happens four years later. I need to start acting on some of this stuff I think of.

This tech has been around for at least twenty years. The earliest reference to it that I can find is from 11/91. US Pat. No. 5265481

 

[Aaron11]

finally nice to hear something good about california

 

[EngrChris]

That statement is either incomplete or it doesn't finish to make sense to me.

Question: How the hell are you supposed to transmit that energy/connect the road to the power system. That is no easy task. Everyone with a little of electrical engineering knowledge understand that transmission/distribution is the biggest concern. Can someone clarify this?

Yes, its a problem, because the AC output cycles must be synchronized to match the grid. They may use a grid-tie inverter.

 

[Brak710]

It might also not feed back into the normal grid.

It's possible this could be use to power traffic control or lighting systems.

 

[Sickb0y]

about time im sick of sitting on the 57 and 60 freeway with all this energy going to waste !
Good day!

 

[Zepher]

They should install something similar at the airport to convert the sound waves into usable electricity.

 

[tayunz]

+1 and +1

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

It's nice to see that a politician in California is atleast spending money that is already allocated for special projects to do this.

The only problem is California's debt is out of control due to stupid spending in the first place. If only a California politician would propose a bill that would allow them to spend this money allocated to "special" projects (read: not entirely necessary projects) on their debt.

 

[Achron]

TLDR

I fail to see how the slow-ass moving traffic will cause nearly as many vibrations as fast moving traffic. Has this guy ever sat in 880, 101, or 280 traffic during rush hour? Apparently not.

 

[rive22]

God Damn it!!! Every time I think of a good idea, it happens four years later. I need to start acting on some of this stuff I think of.

Everytime you get an idea write it down. After a few weeks/months look at your sheet and be surprised at how many good ideas you may have forgotten.

 

[BravO)))]

Everytime you get an idea write it down. After a few weeks/months look at your sheet and be surprised at how many good ideas you may have forgotten.

Regenerative breaking was something I thought of back in 03 and now I am kicking myself in the ass. I have a few more ideas that haven't seen light yet.

 

[pxc]

It is completely mad that with such a high deficit, the State of California gets funds for 'creative' projects that are not defined yet and allocated months or years later.

You don't understand how deficits work in most states here. It's not like a federal government. If CA has say a $15 billion budget deficit, that means that means the state must issue bonds (requires voter approval) or cut spending. The second option happens far more often.

Anyways, from the article there's an assemblyman asking for a *pilot program* to prove feasibility. That's not a huge dedication of resources and even the pilot program still must pass a full vote (it passed in committee 6-1) just to make it into the *proposed budget*.

From the company's web site, power generated from the piezoelectric sensors are priced competitively. http://www.innowattech.co.il/images/pdf/brochure.pdf I wish the company had given the average conditions for 1 km data. Payback of 4-8 years and peak generation of 400 kWHr in 1 km of coverage on a 2 way road leaves out some details. It could very well cost more than $1 million per km per 2 lanes to install.

 

[nutzo]

Sorry to bust everyone's bubble, but if this is being proposed in out here in California then it CAN'T be a good idea, and I guarranty nobody has even though about if this is cost effective.

1. We are already broke, to the point they are laying off police and firemen, cutting back on colleges to the point it's almost impossible to get the classes you need in less than 6 years, and they are even threatening to start releasing prisoners because we can't afford to keep them in jail. Yet they just happen to have this huge pool of money laying around to fund this thing?

2. The actual cost of implimenting this will end up being several times higher than the over-priced solar panel systems they are already forcing the taxpayer to subsidize.

3. My guess is that he (or a supporter) has a financial stake in this technology and stands to make big bucks, even for a small demonstration project. (that's how the corrupt system out here works and one of the reasons we are broke).

 

[Koolthulu]

Regenerative breaking was something I thought of back in 03 and now I am kicking myself in the ass. I have a few more ideas that haven't seen light yet.

You do realize regenerative braking has been around for well over a century?

 

[Enduring_Warrior]

Yes, its a problem, because the AC output cycles must be synchronized to match the grid. They may use a grid-tie inverter.

That's just one piece of the puzzle. I'm talking about ground cabling and distribution. Not to mention that whoever engineers the system must think about maintenance.

I hate how incompetent people get in charge when they don't have any idea of what they're talking about. It happens all the time.

 

[larryBird44]

I had this idea at least 10 years ago . I'd love to see the project come to fruition, however.

 

[infect0]

You do realize regenerative braking has been around for well over a century?

hahahah I was about to say the same thing.

Regenerative braking has been used in locomotives since the early diesel engines. A diesel locomotive powers electric generators which then move the electric motors for the wheels.

 

[RadCliffeX]

TLDR

I fail to see how the slow-ass moving traffic will cause nearly as many vibrations as fast moving traffic. Has this guy ever sat in 880, 101, or 280 traffic during rush hour? Apparently not.

Even in idle, cars put off a lot of vibration.

 

[ir0nw0lf]

So does this mean that soccer mom can tell the 5 kids in her gas guzzler that they can bounce around as much as they want, it might help generate more power?

 

[weebling1]

I had to read it twice but I assume its saying homes for an entire year and 120 EV a day for infinity.

1 year of traffic = 500 homes
1 year of traffic = 120 cars

so in other words in 1 day energy use for 500 homes = 120 cars.

Good God! LA could probably POWER THE WORLD!

 

[eon]

im no expert on this stuff but it does sound a little too good to be true. Kinda suspicious that maybe this guy has a vested interest in this technology.

 

[sfsuphysics]

I had to read it twice but I assume its saying homes for an entire year and 120 EV a day for infinity.

1 year of traffic = 500 homes
1 year of traffic = 120 cars

so in other words in 1 day energy use for 500 homes = 120 cars.

That was my assumption as well, however the way it was written left a funny taste in my mouth... also kind of scary that 1 electric car uses over 4 times as much energy as a normal home.

 

[petertew]

Anytime a politician says his project "won't cost a dime of additional taxes" what he really means is, "I'm lying to you and know full well this will cost more than it should, in large part because I'm a union/corporate shill and am going to contract this out to my 'friends' that give me huge campaign contributions and when the project runs over budget I'm going to insist on a new tax 'on the rich' or maybe a new sin tax and then if you disagree with me I'm going to demonize you and say you hate the poor/elderly/children/minorities who stand to benefit the most from my project."

If this gets started I am almost certain in 3 to 5 years we'll be hearing about a budget struggle around this project.