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Can anyone comment on the VIA NSD7800?
- Thread starter skorpiond
- Start date
I'm a bit surprised this is the first post I've come across this. I personally wouldn't put WHS on it (why can't they just have a dedicated OS drive option already?), but it should work quite well. Low power, low noise, and relatively inexpensive ($500-600 I think). Seems like a pretty decent unit, but I haven't really seen any reviews on it yet.
It looks like I'm the first lucky knight who bought the VIA NSD7800 and so I'll give you a short review.
From outside the device look great - solid work and no cheap plastic parts. The RAM bay is filled with a 1GB 533Mhz module by via and the Hot-Swap HD bays are looking good. There are enough screws only the CF Slot is a bit tricky to fill, since you have to do it from the front side.
At first boot time a big surprise - a Marvel 81xxx RAID Controller comes up. Rereading the specs but it is not mentioned anywhere. After some experiments I figured out that there are 2 different independent SATA controllers. For the upper 4 HDs it is the via south bridge VT8251 and for the lower 4 it is the Marvel 81xxx one.
Therefore a "hw"-RAID over 8 discs is not possible! But both controllers can create a RAID 0,1 or 5 over their 4 hds.
On the SW side I tried FreeNAS 0.69.1 and Ubuntu and Debian (last releases) but unfortunately the Marvell controller is not recognised and till now I found no driver or kernel patch.
Next step is to try new freeNAS Version where some patches for the familiar VIA Artigo are applied or try to use the recently released 2.6.30 linux kernel where Marvell SATA drivers are included (but atm no time to do this).
At the moment I use the NSD7800 with debian lenny on CF card (using flashybrid) and a md software raid over the upper 4 hds. In the next days I'm going to do some speed testings to look whether the C7 CPU can handle the sw raid issues.
Final comment: If there is any support for the second SATA controller real, good and cheap device but only for Softwareraids.
best regards
minos
From outside the device look great - solid work and no cheap plastic parts. The RAM bay is filled with a 1GB 533Mhz module by via and the Hot-Swap HD bays are looking good. There are enough screws only the CF Slot is a bit tricky to fill, since you have to do it from the front side.
At first boot time a big surprise - a Marvel 81xxx RAID Controller comes up. Rereading the specs but it is not mentioned anywhere. After some experiments I figured out that there are 2 different independent SATA controllers. For the upper 4 HDs it is the via south bridge VT8251 and for the lower 4 it is the Marvel 81xxx one.
Therefore a "hw"-RAID over 8 discs is not possible! But both controllers can create a RAID 0,1 or 5 over their 4 hds.
On the SW side I tried FreeNAS 0.69.1 and Ubuntu and Debian (last releases) but unfortunately the Marvell controller is not recognised and till now I found no driver or kernel patch.
Next step is to try new freeNAS Version where some patches for the familiar VIA Artigo are applied or try to use the recently released 2.6.30 linux kernel where Marvell SATA drivers are included (but atm no time to do this).
At the moment I use the NSD7800 with debian lenny on CF card (using flashybrid) and a md software raid over the upper 4 hds. In the next days I'm going to do some speed testings to look whether the C7 CPU can handle the sw raid issues.
Final comment: If there is any support for the second SATA controller real, good and cheap device but only for Softwareraids.
best regards
minos
BurntToast
2[H]4U
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- Jun 14, 2003
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Any chance of loading WHS or XP and just getting a feel for the speed of the system. Does it feel like it lags any?
lizardking009
Gawd
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- Nov 18, 2005
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Is there a VGA port? How do you hook up a monitor for OS installs and what not?
Seems like he installs them to a cf card and uses it like that unless there is an internal vga or something else because it doesn't have an external vga connector. Minos when you have time could you take some pictures of it?
Looks like it's got a VGA header on the mainboard that you can connect a cable to: Check http://www.via-itx.com/via-nsd7800.html
BurntToast
2[H]4U
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There is a VGA Port! You can just plug in a USB KB and Mouse and install like a ordinary server. VIA ships the case with or without the VGA connector, but cost the same, therefore just order is with!
According to WHS and speedtest:
I didn't have time to try WHS but I've done some speed test with the intel nas speed test tool.
In my specification with 3 HDs, md SW Raid I got about 28 MB/s.
Also tried fakeraid with the functional VIA controller but there is no performance benefit.
From my point of view there are 2 limitations:
First the low memory (1GB), since you have to use part of it as RAM-Disk if you have OS on CF and the NIC (cause the implementation of the VIA NIC controller in linux is very poor). CPU is around 30% during the speedtest.
According to WHS and speedtest:
I didn't have time to try WHS but I've done some speed test with the intel nas speed test tool.
In my specification with 3 HDs, md SW Raid I got about 28 MB/s.
Also tried fakeraid with the functional VIA controller but there is no performance benefit.
From my point of view there are 2 limitations:
First the low memory (1GB), since you have to use part of it as RAM-Disk if you have OS on CF and the NIC (cause the implementation of the VIA NIC controller in linux is very poor). CPU is around 30% during the speedtest.
BurntToast
2[H]4U
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Do you see any possibility in modding a 2.5 notebook sata HDD inside of the enclosure for the OS drive? I assume that a drive that small would fit somewhere, the only issue would be getting power to it. Perhaps a sata power Y connector would do the trick?
Not too thrilled about using a CF drive. Would like to keep the 8 drives dedicated to the storage pool.
Also from where did you order from that gave you the option to order it with or without a VGA connector?
I'd love to order this piece of hardware, but the performance of the integrated VIA hardware seems a bit lacking. An intel atom version would be much more attractive.
BTW can you hook this unit up to a killawatt for us?
Not too thrilled about using a CF drive. Would like to keep the 8 drives dedicated to the storage pool.
Also from where did you order from that gave you the option to order it with or without a VGA connector?
I'd love to order this piece of hardware, but the performance of the integrated VIA hardware seems a bit lacking. An intel atom version would be much more attractive.
BTW can you hook this unit up to a killawatt for us?
Inside then enclosure there is enough space to put a 2,5" sata drive, but there is no controller available. Therefore you need to put a mini-pci controller in the extension slot - to connect the 2,5" hd. Power connection should be possible through a Y connector!
At the moment I only found one distributor in Germany (tragant) where you can buy it, but it is only for reseller. They can order the device with VGA connector and actually don't know if it is possible to order the device without.
I'll take some power consumption measurements but since I'm on holiday next 2 week - please be patient.
regards
minos
At the moment I only found one distributor in Germany (tragant) where you can buy it, but it is only for reseller. They can order the device with VGA connector and actually don't know if it is possible to order the device without.
I'll take some power consumption measurements but since I'm on holiday next 2 week - please be patient.
regards
minos
The MAC+PHY in it is remarkably capable for what it is. However, I'm concerned you'd be disk and CPU limited before network limited.
This thing isn't very fast at all. I can't get any more than ~25-30mb/s write. That was to a CIFS share using UFS. I tried both a single drive and a GEOM RAID 1 (that's FreeBSD if you don't know). Reads were a bit better at ~45mb/s. I'm still trying to figure out how to get hardware encryption going too. CPU was being pegged at ~70% during writes with RAID 1, so this thing really doesn't have much power unfortunately. I still like it a lot though (I bought the 2 bay version for $200 and plan on keeping it). I'm going to try iSCSI and ZFS soon and see how they perform. If anyone has some more questions, I can do more testing (just no RAID 5).
GEOM RAID sucks on those CPUs, so yeah, don't bother. That's what's killing your performance. Don't ask me why; I've been through the code only briefly. Part of the problem is gcc sucking, too. Sigh.
I'm not convinced it's not also a controller woe. CIFS performance should be better. Can you run some single drive non-RAID tests?
Crypto, make sure you have padlock(4) and crypto(4) loaded. padlock_load="YES" in loader.conf needs to be before crypto_load="YES". Also remember that it only accelerates AES, SHA1, SHA256 and RSA. It will sign off on other algos, but that's for ipsec support. If it's not working, let me know, and I can take a look at the code.
EDIT: Yes. I do kernel development on FreeBSD.
I'm not convinced it's not also a controller woe. CIFS performance should be better. Can you run some single drive non-RAID tests?
Crypto, make sure you have padlock(4) and crypto(4) loaded. padlock_load="YES" in loader.conf needs to be before crypto_load="YES". Also remember that it only accelerates AES, SHA1, SHA256 and RSA. It will sign off on other algos, but that's for ipsec support. If it's not working, let me know, and I can take a look at the code.
EDIT: Yes. I do kernel development on FreeBSD.
GEOM RAID sucks on those CPUs, so yeah, don't bother. That's what's killing your performance. Don't ask me why; I've been through the code only briefly. Part of the problem is gcc sucking, too. Sigh.
I'm not convinced it's not also a controller woe. CIFS performance should be better. Can you run some single drive non-RAID tests?
Crypto, make sure you have padlock(4) and crypto(4) loaded. padlock_load="YES" in loader.conf needs to be before crypto_load="YES". Also remember that it only accelerates AES, SHA1, SHA256 and RSA. It will sign off on other algos, but that's for ipsec support. If it's not working, let me know, and I can take a look at the code.
EDIT: Yes. I do kernel development on FreeBSD.
He said that he ran the drives as single and then RAID 1
Well, I guess it could be worse, right? I had to limit my CF card to PIO only on my pfsense box.
Yeah, but that's normal. (Long stories involved that even I don't fully grok. Basically something about CF going out of it's mind if you go too fast for the card.)
However, I'm not finding anything in 7.2-REL that indicates the thing would not be using DMA. Can you check if you're set to run in AHCI or SATA mode, and see how it behaves in the other mode?
I can't go into the BIOS right now (my USB keyboard is charging), but the drives show up as SATA.
Code:
ATA channel 0:
Master: ad0 SATA revision 2.x
Slave: ad1 SATA revision 2.x
ATA channel 1:
Master: ad2 ATA/ATAPI revision 0
Slave: no device present
Code:
Device /dev/ad0 - WDC WD7500AAKS-00RBA0/30.04G30
Device name: ad0
Transfer mode: SATA150
Firmware Rev: 30.04G30
ATA revision: ATA-7
LBA 48: yes
Geometry: 16383 cyls, 16 heads, 63 spt
Capacity: 698GB
SMART Supported: yes
SMART Enabled: yes
APM Supported: no
AAM Supported: yes
AAM Enabled: noNot really getting any output. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? My FreeBSD experience really isn't all that great.
Code:
freenas:~# camcontrol devlist
freenas:~# camcontrol devlist -v
scbus-1 on xpt0 bus 0:
< > at scbus-1 target -1 lun -1 (xpt0)
freenas:~#I'm redoing my desktop right now, so it will be a little bit before I can do that. Laptop doesn't have an optical drive and I don't feel like doing PXE boot, so, gotta wait just a bit longer.
Ah-ha.
You have to say it's FreeNAS, there's a difference. They use a hacked up kernel. Install 0.7RC and see how that works? (Prior isn't based on 7.2-REL.) Also means I can't give you a patch to run a debug kernel if we need to.
Also, settle down, Ockie. I know for a fact that FreeBSD should be faster than WHS, especially for GELI. I wanna know why it's sucking so hard, and don't have enough reason to justify buying one of these. (Or money at the moment.)
You have to say it's FreeNAS, there's a difference. They use a hacked up kernel. Install 0.7RC and see how that works? (Prior isn't based on 7.2-REL.) Also means I can't give you a patch to run a debug kernel if we need to.
Also, settle down, Ockie. I know for a fact that FreeBSD should be faster than WHS, especially for GELI. I wanna know why it's sucking so hard, and don't have enough reason to justify buying one of these. (Or money at the moment.)
I'm running 0.7RC1 actually.Ah-ha.
You have to say it's FreeNAS, there's a difference. They use a hacked up kernel. Install 0.7RC and see how that works? (Prior isn't based on 7.2-REL.) Also means I can't give you a patch to run a debug kernel if we need to.
Also, settle down, Ockie. I know for a fact that FreeBSD should be faster than WHS, especially for GELI. I wanna know why it's sucking so hard, and don't have enough reason to justify buying one of these. (Or money at the moment.)
(I deleted three minutes of cussing at and out various people for not properly instrumenting drivers here.)
Only thing I can think is let's see it on the Marvell. Something's wrong with ata(4) that's making the 8251 misery. I have no idea what. I can't find any glaring reason at all. Anything further would absolutely require me to have one of these to run 7.2-REL and a debug kernel on.
The one thing that just stands out at me is the fact that currently, it won't support hotswap - nobody bothered to add PHY hotplug handling.
The closest thing would be the 4 bay Chenbro: http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_detail.php?sku=79
iSCSI results seem to be the same as CIFS. Starts off really quick (maybe it's caching to RAM at first as RAM utilization went up by ~200mb when iSCSI was turned on), but then it drops down to the same speeds as before. CPU utilization is just as high as well. Still haven't gotten around to trying out Windows on it. Oh well.