Certifications

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tgray96

[H]ard|Gawd
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I am looking to start taking learning for a certification, but i am unsure where to start, recommendations?
 
What field are you interested in? Sysadmin, networking, programming, web development, etc, etc...
 
Too broad. Unless you plan to work for a small shop and be the guy doing it all. In which case, certs may not be relevant, other than maybe Microsoft stuff.
 
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ok ok sorry, specifically i guess it would be considered sysadmin, i want to learn the others too though, but sysadmin would be first, i was thinking ccna or microsoft
 
Sysadmins shouldn't really touch network gear. So the CCNA wouldn't really fit. For systems certs, look at Microsoft or Red Hat.
 
Do you already have some professional experience? The Microsoft certifications are popular as are some CompTIA for entry level positions. Most jobs would probably rather have actual work experience than a certification that can be gotten from a few weeks of studying.

Check your area for jobs you're interested in and see what the requirements are. That should help to guide you.
 
i'm not actually going to work right now, i am actually wanting these for college, ok i must have the intrepertration of sysadmin wrong then
 
A Network Admin at a smaller company may touch the network as well as servers. Probably won't have a lot of configuration required though since there sites and funds would be limited.
 
Good baselines most in the path towards network or sysadmins are generally Network+ into either the Microsoft, Linux, or Cisco route. All good options depending on where you want to ideally end up.
 
Have you started college yet? Do you choose a concentration like networking or programming? Certifications and part-time work experience or both things you'll want to get while you're in school although you might want to take a few classes first.
 
adam30k said:
Have you started college yet? Do you choose a concentration like networking or programming? Certifications and part-time work experience or both things you'll want to get while you're in school although you might want to take a few classes first.
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1. networking
2, not old enough to get into lasses, just wanting to get a head start
3. again not old enough to work in the field
 
For what it's worth: looking back, I wish I would have started with Cisco instead of CompTIA when I was in high school. Find something you like to do and go with it. If you want to make money; Cisco, UNIX/Linux, DB admin(especially Oracle). Go down one of those paths and you'll be knocking on the 100k/yr door in no time.
 
I have seen employers list Cisco network knowledge as a requirement for system administrators and I have seen them list Microsoft certifications for network administrators.

In my current job I am a network administrator maintaining a large meshed network of Cisco devices; however, knowledge of Active Directory, and troubleshooting skills with Microsoft based servers and clients come in very handy.

Once I land my CCNP I plan on picking up some Microsoft certifications. You really can't go wrong with having both as you will need knowledge of both at some point in either career field.
 
Shadowspawn said:
You really can't go wrong with having both as you will need knowledge of both at some point in either career field.
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Not really true. You'll need knowledge of both if you stay small. A CCNP is overkill in that case though, IMO. The CCNP-level is essentially where you're a network guy only. You're specialized to networking. From that point, you stick with route/switch (CCNP stuff) or you specialize even further into Voice, Security, Wireless, etc.

You shouldn't see too many CCNPs doing systems and networking. If you're a CCNP and you're still doing a lot of server work, maybe you've just gotten the cert and haven't gotten your first gig doing networking only, or you're doing something wrong. That's my experience, at least.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
Not really true. You'll need knowledge of both if you stay small.
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Yes it really true mainly because in an Enterprise network all the systems tie into each other. You have to know a bit about everything, and then you have your core specialty areas based on your role.
 
Shadowspawn said:
In my current job I am a network administrator maintaining a large meshed network of Cisco devices; however, knowledge of Active Directory, and troubleshooting skills with Microsoft based servers and clients come in very handy.
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Indeed. I'd even recommend learning Microsoft before you start learning Cisco. I work for a large hospital as a Network Analyst.
 
I'd start at Comptia A+ / Network + then go for MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician. Also, I'd start reading books about IT and Telecoms in general.
 
Shottah_king said:
Yes it really true mainly because in an Enterprise network all the systems tie into each other. You have to know a bit about everything, and then you have your core specialty areas based on your role.
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In any network all the systems tie together. That's what a network does.

And, if you have enterprise experience, you should know that everything is very, very specialized. Having knowledge of different technologies is good and helpful, but that doesn't mean you're actually touching them. You don't need to be certified in something to know it. As a network engineer, having systems knowledge can be very helpful, but having Microsoft certs would be mostly pointless, IMO.

To reiterate, I'm talking about the CCNP here. That is a mid to senior-level certification. Mid to senior level network engineers in an enterprise won't be dealing with servers (outside of jump boxes and NMS).
 
Shottah_king said:
I'd start at Comptia A+ / Network +
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These certs are all but worthless unless you're trying to get into a helpdesk or some hardware tech position. The A+ is okay for someone who is just starting out with no experience or certs and looking to get a foot in the door. The N+ is garbage. Getting the CCENT (and then CCNA) would be a much better use of one's time.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
In any network all the systems tie together. That's what a network does.

And, if you have enterprise experience, you should know that everything is very, very specialized. Having knowledge of different technologies is good and helpful, but that doesn't mean you're actually touching them. You don't need to be certified in something to know it. As a network engineer, having systems knowledge can be very helpful, but having Microsoft certs would be mostly pointless, IMO.

To reiterate, I'm talking about the CCNP here. That is a mid to senior-level certification. Mid to senior level network engineers in an enterprise won't be dealing with servers (outside of jump boxes and NMS).
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I started out doing A+, my first jobs were summer employment and interns. You don't wanna rush and not learn some of the important fundamentals that people in a help desk know :)
 
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A+ wont teach you much, and wont net you hardly any cash(This from someone who has an A+!). You're better off getting the experience from a job. If you insist on Microsoft certifications check out the MCITP:Enterprise Administrator. It'd be useful as a help desk tech, but it's much higher level than the MCITP:Enterprise Desktop Support Tech, so you wont get pigeon-holed into a help desk job forever.

Remember, the help desk is just your stepping stone to becoming a systems administrator or network engineer, so getting a bunch of certs saying "hey, I'm awesome at help desk!" will just keep you there forever.
 
Your current level of employment seems to have a lot of bias against Network+ and A+ for the very reason that you are merely so much further up the totem pole already.

Put your baseline back into the shoes of someone just entering the networking field and you will realize that one needs to start small before they can think big. Telling someone to go straight from nothing into the Cisco route is like feeding them to the sharks - it's a direct path toward failure if one doesn't start with the basics.

Keep on track with getting your CompTIAs and then move up the ladder to the bigger certs.
 
The bias isn't due to where I am. It's due to where I've been and what I've seen. As I said, the A+ is really only good for someone starting out and looking for a helpdesk(ish) gig. I still think it lacks value there. The only time one should consider the A+ is if they see it as a firm requirement for many of the positions to which they're applying.

Saying jumping straight into Cisco certs is like feeding them to the sharks is ridiculous. The CCENT starts with the basics, just like the N+ (though the N+ starts AND ends with the very basics, which is why it's nearly useless). The difference is that the CCENT/CCNA goes deeper and teaches more valuable information (on top of what the N+ teaches). So the N+ is a waste of time, AND it's not nearly as valuable as the CCENT/CCNA.

Where I'm at has little to do with my suggestions, other than being in the industry and seeing how things work. It's not like I'm telling people screw the A+, N+, CCNA, etc, you should go straight to the CCIE...
 
I feel strongly that CCENT is at a similar level to Network+. If I could start over, that's where I would have started. It has nothing to do with my current level. It's more of a "if I only knew what I know now back then" situation.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
In any network all the systems tie together. That's what a network does.

And, if you have enterprise experience, you should know that everything is very, very specialized. Having knowledge of different technologies is good and helpful, but that doesn't mean you're actually touching them. You don't need to be certified in something to know it. As a network engineer, having systems knowledge can be very helpful, but having Microsoft certs would be mostly pointless, IMO.

To reiterate, I'm talking about the CCNP here. That is a mid to senior-level certification. Mid to senior level network engineers in an enterprise won't be dealing with servers (outside of jump boxes and NMS).
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From a hiring standpoint you do need to show certifications for what you know. At least a basic certification is required.

My current position is Senior Network Administrator on an Enterprise level network consisting of nearly 500 access switches and a fully meshed core of 6509's. A CCNP is required. However, I also need to troubleshoot systems connectivity from the cable through Domain, especially with 802.1x security in place, I need to understand active directory structure to understand why a system is failing authentication. I need to understand how to use an MMC AD plug-in to see where a system's object is in the tree.

My point is the further you get in your career the better you need to be able to understand both sides of the house - especially when companies no longer want to pay the salaries of a network administrator and a system administrator. They want one technician that can do both.

Vito_Corleone said:
The bias isn't due to where I am. It's due to where I've been and what I've seen. As I said, the A+ is really only good for someone starting out and looking for a helpdesk(ish) gig. I still think it lacks value there. The only time one should consider the A+ is if they see it as a firm requirement for many of the positions to which they're applying.

Saying jumping straight into Cisco certs is like feeding them to the sharks is ridiculous. The CCENT starts with the basics, just like the N+ (though the N+ starts AND ends with the very basics, which is why it's nearly useless). The difference is that the CCENT/CCNA goes deeper and teaches more valuable information (on top of what the N+ teaches). So the N+ is a waste of time, AND it's not nearly as valuable as the CCENT/CCNA.

Where I'm at has little to do with my suggestions, other than being in the industry and seeing how things work. It's not like I'm telling people screw the A+, N+, CCNA, etc, you should go straight to the CCIE...
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I can agree with this. I am admittedly biased, but a CCENT/CCNA means more to me than a Network +.
 
minc3d said:
Your current level of employment seems to have a lot of bias against Network+ and A+ for the very reason that you are merely so much further up the totem pole already.

Put your baseline back into the shoes of someone just entering the networking field and you will realize that one needs to start small before they can think big. Telling someone to go straight from nothing into the Cisco route is like feeding them to the sharks - it's a direct path toward failure if one doesn't start with the basics.

Keep on track with getting your CompTIAs and then move up the ladder to the bigger certs.
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I agree. You have to start somewhere. I can almost gurantee any new entree level person that you won't start out installing servers or configuring switches.

Again my manager didn't let me configure any switches, or even give me the password to the servers until I proved myself. That was when I had a MCSA and a CCNA. I was put into an internship and had to learn the functions of the heldesk before I became a Network Analyst.

Heldesk you get exposure to all the systems with 0 pressure. At an engineer/admin level you have to know your stuff.
 
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Shadowspawn said:
when companies no longer want to pay the salaries of a network administrator and a system administrator. They want one technician that can do both.
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Again, I disagree. The bigger the company, the more specialized the engineers. No one expects me to be able to configure domains or Exchange or any of that crap. Sure, I may need to know how some things interact (your dot1x example is a good one), but I won't be expected to know much beyond that. And the companies I fit into surely won't expect me to have MS certs.
 
I hitted submit too early and I can't delete this message...
 
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Protoform-X said:
A+ wont teach you much, and wont net you hardly any cash(This from someone who has an A+!). You're better off getting the experience from a job. If you insist on Microsoft certifications check out the MCITP:Enterprise Administrator. It'd be useful as a help desk tech, but it's much higher level than the MCITP:Enterprise Desktop Support Tech, so you wont get pigeon-holed into a help desk job forever.

Remember, the help desk is just your stepping stone to becoming a systems administrator or network engineer, so getting a bunch of certs saying "hey, I'm awesome at help desk!" will just keep you there forever.
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I don't mean to pick on you but your saying to work on administration level certifications when your career isn't at that level yet? Certifications validate your experience and your knowledge. That's all. Entry level and mid level certificates help validate your experience and knowledge when you are entry to mid level career-wise. The exams you pass, for example, to obtain EDST all apply to EA. I think it's dangerous to tell someone to go for a certification that's at a much higher level then their work experience. I don't think it will help someone to have a particular certification, except for the entry level ones, without the work experience to go along with it.

Certifications pretty much go hand in hand with experience, people act like you're picking one or the other.
 
It's all situational. I've been on gov't contracts that you had to be able to wear any hat they needed because the security clearances required were so high it was almost impossible to get any direct outside help...

They were like, "We need help building all these Sun servers we just bought." You went out and bought a Solaris book (assuming you already knew Unix to a certain extent) and got to work.

They'd also do things like, "We know everyone here is essentially a Cisco pro so we went out and bought a pile of Marconi routers to save 5%." "Here's the config guide, have a nice weekend." Same thing with HP Procurves at another place I worked.

It never hurts to diversify. Being totally hot-shit on a single platform isn't all that great when the company gets bought out and the platform gets tossed, e.g. Digital UNIX which became Tru64 on Alpha and others like SGI IRIX that we had a ton of servers running and are long gone now.
 
One quick thought about choosing the hardware or software route.. we all need to pay bills but try and pick something you're passionate about. If you choose a path solely for money then you'll become burnt out, jaded and hard to work with. IT already has enough of those people.
 
In a nutshell, the A+ and Net+ are like saying "I'm not a noob at what I'm doing but I still have a long way to go", its your foot in the door certs that you would start out with. If you're trying to land something bigger than maybe a small business or desktop tech, you'll want to go higher. If I wanted to, I could go back and do my A+ and Net+ with my eyes closed. I got those during my Junior year at high school. Those were easy pickings. Now I plan on going the Cisco route.
Systems admin: Go Microsoft or Linux Route (MCITP, MCSE, etc.)
Networking: Cisco and Juniper (CCNA, CCNP, CCIE, etc)

Also, don't argue with Vito_Corleone, I know for a fact he knows his shit. Go to networking-forum.com read some of his stuff and then come back and try to argue with him.
 
Kaiga said:
Also, don't argue with Vito_Corleone, I know for a fact he knows his shit. Go to networking-forum.com read some of his stuff and then come back and try to argue with him.
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We are not saying vito_corleone doesn't know his stuff. Remember when you put certain certs on your resume, be prepared to be asked questions on that level on the interview because you will be expected to know.

And for beginners, attempting mid-senior level certs can be difficult due to lack of experience. It's easy to get discouraged. Again, most people start their careers off doing internships, summer employment, or some form of helpdesk before moving up the ladder to system/network admin. Unless you are shit hot.
 
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